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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • The hadeeth of the blind man is clearly not general.

    We should discuss this hadeeth as it's most oft quoted.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
      ...you start complaining and threatening me with a ban just because I regard such an action as very evil and satanic!...
      Please quote the post where I threatened you with a ban. I don't remember doing it.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
        Please quote the post where I threatened you with a ban. I don't remember doing it.
        The you here was a general one. You did actually not threaten me, but AM did and others supported that including the one who had insulted me.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          The hadeeth of the blind man is clearly not general.

          We should discuss this hadeeth as it's most oft quoted.
          This I would genuinely like to see.

          As I've had questions regarding this for so long ...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
            The hadeeth of the blind man is clearly not general.

            We should discuss this hadeeth as it's most oft quoted.
            The Hadith is general according to the very scholars of Hadith, who narrated it! They put the Hadith in those chapters, which are general!

            I had posted this in the beginning;

            Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
            - The Hadith of the blind man:

            عن عثمان بن حنيف ، أن رجلا ضرير البصر أتى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : ادع الله أن يعافيني ، قال : " إن شئت دعوت وإن شئت صبرت فهو خير لك " ، قال : فادعه ، قال : فأمره أن يتوضأ فيحسن وضوءه ويدعو بهذا الدعاء : " اللهم إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبيك ، محمد نبي الرحمة ، إني توجهت بك إلى ربي في حاجتي هذه لتقضى لي ، اللهم فشفعه في

            From Uthman bin Hunayf [who narrated] that a blind man came to the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - and said: “Supplicate to Allah to cure me.” [The Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam -] said, “If you wish I will supplicate [for you] and if you wish you may be patient and that will be better for you.” He said, “Supplicate to Him.” [The narrator] said, “So the Prophet instructed him to make ablution (wudhu`), perfect his ablution and then supplicate with this prayer:
            O Allah, I ask You and approuch You through Your Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. [O Muhammad,] I approach my Lord through you in this need of mine, that it be fulfilled. O Allah, grant him intercession for me’”.


            Source: Jami' al-Tirmidhi (and HERE also) and Imam al-Tirmidhi (d. 279 AH) himself mentioned that it's an authentic narration, but thought that this is the only chain available, while there is also another chain for it.

            The recognized authorities in the field of Hadith and its criticism unanimously regarded the Hadith of the blind man to be a sound Hadith.

            Ibn Khuzayma reported the Hadīth with the same chain in his Hadīth, and Ahmad reported it in his al-musnad, p. 138, vol. 4; and al-Nasā’i in his `amal al-yawm wal layla, p. 417; and Ibn Mājah in his al-sunan, p. 441, vol. 1; and al-Bukhārī in his al-tārīkh al-kabīr, p. 210, vol.6; and al-Tabarānī in his al-mu`jam al-kabīr, p.19, vol. 9; and also in his kitāb al-du`ā’, p. 1289, vol. 2; and al-Hākim in his al-mustadrak, p. 313 and p. 519, vol. 1; he declared it to be a rigorously authentic Hadīth (sahīh), and al-Dhahabī affirmed its authenticity [in his annotations on al-mustadrak]. Al-Bayhaqī reported the Hadīth in his dalā’il al-nubūwa, p. 166, vol. 6, and in his al-da`wat al-kabīr.

            Since the wording of the Hadith is GENERAL, the scholars of Hadith included this narration in those chapters of supplication that one can use IN ALL TIMES.
            Note that there is a clear indication that the blind man made this supplication IN ABSENCE of the Prophet - sallallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam -, because he went away to act upon the Prophetic advice and when he came back to the meeting with Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam -, he was already cured!
            This is indeed from among the proofs for prophethhood and also the permissibility of Tawassul IN ALL TIMES and the calling of the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - in the context of Tawassul.

            This is also what the companion and narrator of the above incident - i.e. 'Uthman bin Hunayf (radhiallahu 'anhu) - understood and he used to teach this AFTER the Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - had passed away as is clear from an incident connected to the above narration:

            ​Note that 'Uthman bin Hunayf - radhiallahu 'anhu - also stated "I swear by Allāh, we hadn’t gone away, nor had we remained a long time in talk when the man returned as if he had never suffered any affliction." and this shows that the man did the supplications in the ABSENCE of the Prophet (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and this supports what was stated above.


            Then: What about the Aya 4:64? It's simply not possible to deny it being general! The scholars of Tafsir understood it as such and the Fuqaha` also.

            The issue has simply too strong proofs in order for one to deny it!

            Yes, if you say that Tawassul is correct, but the wording of seeking aid maybe problematic for laymen, then I agree!
            But this never ever justifies denying what is legislated in the divine law!

            This is why I even stated that Imam Ibn Taymiyya had actually a point (because some people do indeed wrong things in this context), but he destroyed his point by attacking Tawassul in itself (which is legislated beyond doubt).
            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 03-03-21, 12:16 AM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

              The you here was a general one. You did actually not threaten me, but AM did and others supported that including the one who had insulted me.
              Is that a retraction?

              I don't for a minute believe it was a general 'you.' I think you are trying to pull a fast one. You clearly replied to my post and addressed me.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                ...The Hadith is general according to the very scholars of Hadith, who narrated it! They put the Hadith in those chapters, which are general!...
                Please post all the full ahadeeth (in English) as I believe there is more than one narration regarding the blind man.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                  This I would genuinely like to see.

                  As I've had questions regarding this for so long ...
                  -_-

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                    -_-
                    I know. Someone offered to explain it to you but you didn't answer the call.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      Is that a retraction?

                      I don't for a minute believe it was a general 'you.' I think you are trying to pull a fast one. You clearly replied to my post and addressed me.
                      Don't derail ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                        I know. Someone offered to explain it to you but you didn't answer the call.
                        Who?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                          Don't derail ...
                          Don't you see the problem?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            Who?
                            You know who.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Fais View Post

                              You know who.
                              I don't remember.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                                Don't you see the problem?
                                Yes I do.


                                He said "you". You challenged him. He clarified it was general not specifically you (even though you did make a post about rat infestation referring to someone or another). You're unhappy about that because you don't believe it (which is your right).

                                And that is it. You have to take his clarification and walk. Unless you want to accuse him of lying, which you'd have no proof for. So it'd be a pointless endevour, hence derailing the topic.

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