Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

[Muhammad Hasan]

If I was a mod I would have banned "Abu Sulayman" and his propaganda a long time ago.

You mean you would have silenced people speaking out against those who Allah Ta'ala has guided astray?

But this reminds me of the Sunnah of a certain group... Wishing to silence those who speak the truth...

As if it was a recurrent message and warning...

Getting back to the topic...

Friend online, know vaguely in person is now openly stating calling upon the dead is not shirk as long as don't believe they are an actual God, year ago was arguing the opposite. Guess which western / westernised Sheikh he has been a follower of for years?

His ilah in this circumstance is not the one in the grave, the practice of which he believes is bidah, at least unless his Sheikh changes his mind for him, his ilah is the one who he will blindly follow.

They have taken their rabbis and their monks as gods beside Allah, and also (they have taken) Masīh the son of Maryam (as god). And they were not commanded but to worship only One God. There is no god but He. Pure is He from what they associate with Him.
Quran translation, Surah at Tawbah, 9:31

Btw, the above ayat is another proof against the fanciful, ridiculous claims of Yasir Qadhi and his supporters. no Christian or Jew literally believes that their scholars are Gods, that is not their intention in the slightest, yet Allah mentions it as such.

See AmantuBillahi, I asked you because I wanted to understand ^this mindset. I mean I really find it hard to relate to this, and you're seriously telling me you never used to think like this?

Edit: I am asking about this mindset that is blind to what it opposes, and doesn't listen to scholars on the other side or even just evidences from the other side etc. I am not talking about my brother's point of not doing Taqlid (blind following) in Aqeedah, which I agree with. There is some irony in that this is my whole contention against this sect.

[AbuMubarak]

You want to ban someone because you don't like what he's saying?

Since when did that become the policy of this forum?

You need help in reading comprehension

[AbuMubarak]

Abu Sulayman has first hand experience when it comes to the atrocities of daesh since he's currently in Iraq. And why are some of you scared to openly declare your support for these groups? what happened to not fearing the kuffar and being upon the haqq?.. easy to support these people when you don't have to deal with the aftermath of their actions. Also, I'm surprised people still follow iaw, he wasn't a learned individual and the more you delve into his movement the more you realize how stupid it is tbh.

I think my post was clear enough

[AbuMubarak]

You mean you would have silenced people speaking out against those who Allah Ta'ala has guided astray?

But this reminds me of the Sunnah of a certain group... Wishing to silence those who speak the truth...

As if it was a recurrent message and warning...



See AmantuBillahi, I asked you because I wanted to understand ^this mindset. I mean I really find it hard to relate to this, and you're seriously telling me you never used to think like this?

disagreeing with Abdul-Wahhab is purely allowed. You know that
maligning him or any other "good" Muslim scholar is something quite different

for example, I disagree with a lot of yasir qadhi, but I would never refer to him as shaytan or the dajjal

[Umm Uthmaan]

disagreeing with Abdul-Wahhab is purely allowed. You know that
maligning him or any other "good" Muslim scholar is something quite different

for example, I disagree with a lot of yasir qadhi, but I would never refer to him as shaytan or the dajjal

This part ..You can disagree with whatever scholar you want to.

It's not like everyone here has the same opinion on everything. We don't all follow the same understanding of Islam.

But to call a scholar and even if you or others don't consider him a scholar he is at least a muslim, for dajjal and satan and God knows what..what is the point of that?

Answer this question, if you are sincere Muhammad Hasan

[Muhammad Hasan]

disagreeing with Abdul-Wahhab is purely allowed. You know that
maligning him or any other "good" Muslim scholar is something quite different

for example, I disagree with a lot of yasir qadhi, but I would never refer to him as shaytan or the dajjal

So I mean the issue is what I discussed in my PM to you.

To be clear, I barely regard him as a scholar to begin with...

Yes, it is true, that is a certain level of respect that I would give to (e.g.) Hafiz Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibnul Qayyim etc. These are scholars regardless of what my view of them or their views may be. But Ibn Abdul Wahhab (not his father Abdul Wahhab Rahimullah Alay) is not in the same category. Personally I refrain from calling him a Shaytan as I view him as a Muslim and only judge on the outward (I ignore prophecies when it comes to judging such, as the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam did not initially expose the Munafiqun as Kuffar based off of the knowledge he was given). But for instance I can imagine some Sunnis curse Yazid viewing him as a disbeliever, whilst others (like myself) don't make takfir nor curse. I can imagine someone calling Yazid a Shaytan.

The meaning of Dajjal however is of a deceiver, and I think it can be appropriate to call him that - not as the Dajjal - but as a Dajjal.

Tell me, if someone called the Usuli Twelver Shi'a ulama who supported the Safavid purge of Sunni Muslims from Iran, Dajjalun or Shayatin, would you oppose that?

[Muhammad Hasan]

This part ..You can disagree with whatever scholar you want to.

It's not like everyone here has the same opinion on everything. We don't all follow the same understanding of Islam.

But to call a scholar and even if you or others don't consider him a scholar he is at least a muslim, for dajjal and satan and God knows what..what is the point of that?

Answer this question, if you are sincere Muhammad Hasan

Insha'Allah I have sister.

[notEVOLVED]

The self-proclaimed people of logic, ironically, commit the most blatant fallacies.

[Abu 'Abdullaah]

You mean you would have silenced people speaking out against those who Allah Ta'ala has guided astray?....

I might just have to take care of this rat problem lest we get an infestation and spread of disease.

[AbuMubarak]

So I mean the issue is what I discussed in my PM to you.

To be clear, I barely regard him as a scholar to begin with...

Yes, it is true, that is a certain level of respect that I would give to (e.g.) Hafiz Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibnul Qayyim etc. These are scholars regardless of what my view of them or their views may be. But Ibn Abdul Wahhab (not his father Abdul Wahhab Rahimullah Alay) is not in the same category. Personally I refrain from calling him a Shaytan as I view him as a Muslim and only judge on the outward (I ignore prophecies when it comes to judging such, as the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam did not initially expose the Munafiqun as Kuffar based off of the knowledge he was given). But for instance I can imagine some Sunnis curse Yazid viewing him as a disbeliever, whilst others (like myself) don't make takfir nor curse. I can imagine someone calling Yazid a Shaytan.

The meaning of Dajjal however is of a deceiver, and I think it can be appropriate to call him that - not as the Dajjal - but as a Dajjal.

Tell me, if someone called the Usuli Twelver Shi'a ulama who supported the Safavid purge of Sunni Muslims from Iran, Dajjalun or Shayatin, would you oppose that?

I read your book. Pretty much the same as this thread

Let me be clear

ALL scholars, students, preachers will say some good
Sometimes they may waiver, some more than others

I am not even a student of a student of a student of knowledge

But I am a grown man, father and grandfather and great grandfather.... So guidance/misguidance is imperative for me to pass on to my progeny

If they read the "Three Fundamentals" and nothing else in life, I will die a content death
So for you or anyone else to condemn Abdul-Wahhab as a shaytan or dajjal is defying the message of his book

Did he do wrong? I hear yes, I hear no. As with ibn Taymiyyah and others

however, the message of tawheed is what I focus on. I urge you the same and stop this defamation that you may be held accountable in the grave & judgment day

[AbuMubarak]

Muhammad Hasan, are you shia?

[AbuMubarak]

Just in case this may be confusing to some, let me be clear

As an admin of this forum, we do not subscribe to any singular sect, madh'hab, ideology, group here at Ummah.com

All Muslims are welcome, even shia, sufis, modernists, progressives, even qadianis
Kafirs are welcome also, incl atheists, wiccans, Hindus, Jews, Christians,

What we do not tolerate is propagation of misguidance, not even from Muslims

We are here to discuss Islam. Not necessarily to debate Islam

[AbuMubarak]

I think abu musab has done a decent job clarifying the issues with "wahhabis"

You may agree or disagree but he breaks it down to a simple level

just in case you missed it

[Abu Sulayman]

Before commenting on some of the posts made above I would like to remind everyone what the topic of this thread is:

Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

__________

Relevant posts:

Table of contents (16-11-2020):


- OP: Summary of its ruling by 'Allama 'Abd al-Rahman bin Muhammad al-Mashhur (d. 1320 AH) and 'Allama Muhammad bin Sulayman al-Kurdi (d. 1194 AH)

- Some proofs from the Qur`an al-karim and the Sunna regarding the permissibility of seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ

- MIAW's son admitting that the main reason why they killed Muslims was the issue of seeking intercession, which the classical scholars allowed!
- Is the simple asking for intercession condemned in the Qur`an as polytheism? (part 1)
- Is the simple asking for intercession condemned in the Qur`an as polytheism? (part 2)

- Imam Malik's (d. 179 AH) response to al-Mansur (d. 158 AH): Rather face him and seek his intercession!

- Imam 'Abdullah bin al-Mubarak (d. 181 AH), Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (d. 241 AH), Imam al-Nawawi (d. 676 AH) and other scholars from the Salaf and Khalaf ACTED UPON the Hadith "O slaves of Allah! Help me!"
- One of the supporting routes of the narration "O slaves of Allah! Help me!"

- Imam Ibn Abi Dunya (d. 281 AH): The Salaf acted upon the Hadith of the blind man and performed Tawassul!

- Imam al-Mawardi [al-Shafi'i] (d. 450 AH) recommends visitation of the blessed grave and seeking intercession through the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam al-Ghazali [al-Shafi'i] (d. 505 AH) recommends seeking intercession through the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam Ibn al-Salah [al-Shafi'i] (d. 643 AH) regards the fullfillment of one’s needs when one performs Tawassul with the Prophet ﷺ among the miracles (Mu'jizat) that Allah granted to our Prophet ﷺ
- Imam al-Nawawi [al-Shafi'i] (d. 676 AH) recommends seeking intercession through the Prophet ﷺ and mentions that this is the position of his Shafi'i colleagues in general!
- Imam Kamal al-Din Ibn al-Zamlakani [al-Shafi'i] (d. 727 AH) seeks intercession with the Prophet ﷺ in poetry
- Imam Taqi al-Din al-Subki [al-Shafi'i] (d. 756 AH): The permissibility and goodness of performing Tawassul, Istighatha and Tashaffu' with the best of creation ﷺ
- Scholarly support for the work Shifa` al-Siqam of Imam Taqi al-Din al-Subki (d. 756 AH)
- Imam Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani [al-Shafi'i] (d. 852 AH) asking the Prophet ﷺ for intercession in his poetry (+ his comment on the Tawassul of 'Umar through al-'Abbas, may Allah be pleased with them)
- Imam Taqi al-Din al-Hisni [al-Shafi'i] (d. 829 AH) on seeking aid with the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam al-Samhudi [al-Shafi'i] (d. 911 AH) on Tawassul, Tashaffu' and Istighatha
- Shaykh al-Islam Zakariyya al-Ansari [al-Shafi'i] (d. 926 AH) recommends seeking intercession through the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam al-Qastallani [al-Shafi'i] (d. 923 AH) on Tawassul, Tashaffu' and Istighatha (+ his own experience)
- Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami [al-Shafi'i] (d. 974 AH) regarding Tawassul, Tashaffu' and Istighatha with the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam Shihab al-Din al-Ramli [al-Shafi'i] (d. 957 AH) and his son Imam Shams al-Din al-Ramli [al-Shafi'i] (d. 1004 AH) regarding the seeking of aid with the Prophet ﷺ by saying "Ya Rasulullah!"

- Imam Ibn 'Aqil [al-Hanbali] (d. 513 AH) recommends seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam 'Abd al-Qadir al-Jilani [al-Hanbali] (d. 561 AH) recommends seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ
- Imam Ibn Qudama al-Maqdisi [al-Hanbali] (d. 620 AH) recommends seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ (+ recommendation to act on the Hadith of bling man when in need)
- Imam Yahya bin Yusuf al-Sarsari [al-Hanbali] (d. 656 AH) seeks intercession with the Prophet ﷺ in his poetry

- Imam 'Abdullah bin Mahmud bin Mawdud al-Mawsili [al-Hanafi] (d. 683 AH) recommends seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ

- Imam Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH) ADMITTING that the Hadith of the blind man was acted upon by the Salaf al-salih and that Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH) permitted Tawassul!
- Ibn Taymiyya's (d. 728 AH) exact position on Tawassul and Tashaffu'
- Who was the [leader of] state and who were the scholars who stood against Ibn Taymiyya's (d. 728 AH) abnormal Fatawa?
- Imam al-Jazari [al-Shafi'i] (d. 711 AH) and Imam al-Tufi [al-Hanbali] (d. 716 AH): On seeking aid with the best of creation ﷺ and responding to Ibn Taymiyya's (d. 728 AH) objections

- Famous incident that proves silent consensus (Ijma' sukuti) among the Sahabat al-kiram - radhiallahu 'anhum ajma'in - on the issue of Tawassul bil Dhat
(+ supporting evidences) (+ correction of mistranslation)

- A good series of short lectures / videos regarding Tawassul and connected issues


To be continued insha`Allah...

__________


As you see above quite many quotes where brought from classical scholars (who are the very same people who transmitted this religion to us!), so attacking what they stated as "greater polytheism" is an attack against classical Islam in reality.
So while some people here are unable to bring any classical scholars that support what IAW's modern followers have teached to them (which they unfortunately blindly follow), they instead are concentrating on something completely else thinking that they will be able to divert the actual topic.

Now let's get more specific insha`Allah...

[Fais]

You need help in reading comprehension

Maybe, but I think the sentiment is clear enough for anyone to comprehend. A person is being threatened with a ban because he's speaking out against a movement that you also align with or at least are sympathetic to (the Salafi movement). When the same or worse was said about certain Sufi scholars, nobody cared. In fact, we had mods who piled on.

Don't pretend to be impartial ... at least have the decency to see it within yourself.