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Seeking intercession with the Prophet (s): Its ruling according to classical scholars

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  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
    Anyone know what Imam Abu Hanifa's opinion on all this is?
    I asked the same earlier and his followers accepted it.

    From what I can find it seems he himself prohibited it but this post here says that is only for the wording "by the right of X".
    https://seekersguidance.org/answers/...hanafi-school/

    Abu Sulayman would like your input
    "When you want to cry, laugh.
    If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
      Anyone know what Imam Abu Hanifa's opinion on all this is?
      It was narrated that he disliked the wording of asking Allah ta'ala "by the right of so and so upon you", because a creation has no binding right upon Allah ta'ala. At the very same time he did not say a word against Tawassul in itself and did not deny it.

      This is clarified in the famous Hanafi Fiqh work Radd al-Muhtar 6/397 (translation taken from HERE):

      قَوْلُهُ لِأَنَّهُ لَا حَقَّ لِلْخَلْقِ عَلَى الْخَالِقِ) قَدْ يُقَالُ إنَّهُ لَا حَقَّ لَهُمْ وُجُوبًا عَلَى اللَّهِ تَعَالَى، لَكِنَّ اللَّهَ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَى جَعَلَ لَهُمْ حَقًّا مِنْ فَضْلِهِ أَوْ يُرَادُ بِالْحَقِّ الْحُرْمَةُ وَالْعَظَمَةُ

      (And his saying that there is no right of the creation on the Creator) He said that there is no right on Allah that He is compelled (wujuban) to fulfill. But Allah alloted to them rights from His grace or willingness with the right of sanctity and greatness.
      - end of quote -

      The author then gives an example for what Allah ta'ala alloted to his slaves as rights from His grace (which therefore is allowed and does not fall under being disliked):
      "So this then becomes from the Wasila (means) as [Allah] ta'ala stated { and seek the means towards Him } [5:35]'" ("فَيَكُونُ مِنْ بَابِ الْوَسِيلَةِ وَقَدْ قَالَ تَعَالَى: - {وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ").

      This means that this was not understood as a rejection of Tawassul by the Hanafi Fuqaha` and this should be enough.

      (See the rest of the explantion in the Arabic link.)

      Refer also to this post:

      Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

      Imam 'Abdullah bin Mahmud bin Mawdud al-Mawsili [al-Hanafi] (d. 683 AH) recommends seeking intercession with the Prophet ﷺ

      He stated in his al-Ikhtiyar li Ta'lil al-Mukhtar 1/176 (= major accepted Fiqh book of the Ahnaf / Hanafiyya!) that one should say the following during the visitation (Ziyara) of the grave of our beloved Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam:

      وَقَدْ قَالَ اللَّهُ تَعَالَى: {وَلَوْ أَنَّهُمْ إِذْ ظَلَمُوا أَنْفُسَهُمْ جَاءُوكَ فَاسْتَغْفَرُوا اللَّهَ وَاسْتَغْفَرَ لَهُمُ الرَّسُولُ لَوَجَدُوا اللَّهَ تَوَّابًا رَحِيمًا} [النساء: 64] وَقَدْ جِئْنَاكَ ظَالِمِينَ لِأَنْفُسِنَا، مُسْتَغْفِرِينَ لِذُنُوبِنَا، فَاشْفَعْ لَنَا إِلَى رَبِّكَ، وَأَسْأَلْهُ أَنْ يُمِيتَنَا عَلَى سُنَّتِكَ، وَأَنْ يَحْشُرَنَا فِي زُمْرَتِكَ، وَأَنْ يُورِدَنَا حَوْضَكَ، وَأَنْ يَسْقِيَنَا كَأْسَكَ غَيْرَ خَزَايَا وَلَا نَادِمِينَ، الشَّفَاعَةَ الشَّفَاعَةَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ، يَقُولُهَا ثَلَاثًا: {رَبَّنَا اغْفِرْ لَنَا وَلإِخْوَانِنَا الَّذِينَ سَبَقُونَا بِالإِيمَانِ} [الحشر: 10] الْآيَةَ. وَيُبَلِّغُهُ سَلَامَ مَنْ أَوْصَاهُ فَيَقُولُ: السَّلَامُ عَلَيْكَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ مِنْ فُلَانِ بْنِ فُلَانٍ، يَسْتَشْفِعُ بِكَ إِلَى رَبِّكِ فَاشْفَعْ لَهُ وَلِجَمِيعِ الْمُسْلِمِينَ

      "Allah ta'ala says: { If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful } [4:64].
      So we've come to you, having wronged ourselves and asking [Allah] for forgiveness regarding our sins, so intercede for us to your Lord and ask Him that He lets us die upon your Sunna, and that He gathers us [on the day of reckoning] among your group, and allows us to get to your pond and drink from your cup without disgrace or regret.
      Intercession intercession, o Messenger of Allah (al-Shafa'a al-Shafa'a, ya Rasulallah) - he (the visitor) should say this thrice -, { “Our Lord, forgive us and those of our brothers who preceded us in faith” } [59:10] [till the end of] the Aya.
      [Then] he should deliver the greeting of those who have told him to do so by saying: 'Peace be upon you, o Messenger of Allah, from Fulan bin Fulan, he seeks intercession through you unto your Lord, so intercede for him and for all believers'.
      "
      - end of quote -


      It should be noted that the above is supported by the Ahnaf in general (go and read any major Hanafi Fiqh book!) such that it can be found in their important works like Fath al-Qadir 3/181 (by Imam Ibn al-Humam al-Hanafi (d. 861 AH)), al-Fatawa al-Hindiyya 1/266 (by a number of Hanafi authors) and other than it.



      It should be also noted that some ignorant and / or dishonest people in our time will quote some of the Hanafi scholars, who stated that one should not ask Allah ta'ala "by the right of so and so upon you", and then these people claim that this means that these Ahnaf disallowed Tawassul. The reality is that some of their scholars only disliked this wording (!), because they stated that no one has an absolute right upon the Creator (and NOT in order to disallow Tawassul).
      And among those who have mentioned this very reasoning for disliking it - while clearly supporting seeking intercession with the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - is Imam Ibn Mawdud al-Mawsili himself in the very same book quoted above (see al-Ikhtiyar li Ta'lil al-Mukhtar 4/164: "قَالَ: (وَيُكْرَهُ أَنْ يَدْعُوَ اللَّهَ إِلَّا بِهِ) ؛ فَلَا يَقُولُ أَسْأَلُكَ بِفُلَانٍ أَوْ بِمَلَائِكَتِكَ أَوْ بِأَنْبِيَائِكَ وَنَحْوِ ذَلِكَ لِأَنَّهُ لَا حَقَّ لِلْمَخْلُوقِ عَلَى الْخَالِقِ").

      This shows to you how one can not trust any of the claims of these people against Tawassul, because they're either based upon ignorance or dishonesty or both!
      Wallahu a'lam.
      Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 09-10-20, 09:14 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

        It was narrated that he disliked the wording of asking Allah ta'ala "by the right of so and so upon you", because a creation has no binding right upon Allah ta'ala. At the very same time he did not say a word against Tawassul in itself and did not deny it...
        So Imam Abu Hanifa did not say a word in support of tawassul.

        He was also against this dua:

        Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
        ...and let this Your Prophet intercede for us, and elevate us by virtue of his rank and right with You."...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Bolt View Post

          I asked the same earlier and his followers accepted it.

          From what I can find it seems he himself prohibited it but this post here says that is only for the wording "by the right of X".
          https://seekersguidance.org/answers/...hanafi-school/

          Abu Sulayman would like your input
          You really shouldn't be debating anything.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

            You really shouldn't be debating anything.
            I thought this was a discussion.
            "When you want to cry, laugh.
            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
              As for supporting evidences that the understanding presented is nearer to the truth:

              Then we know that the Sahaba - radhiallahu 'anhum - continued to perform Tawassul through the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - AFTER his passing away and also asking for his supplication / intercession. Let me give one example for each:

              - 'Uthman bin Hunayf - radhiallahu 'anhu - is the one who narrated the incident mentioned in the Hadith of the blind man. He used to teach the supplication "O Allāh, I ask You and I approach You through your Prophet Muhammad ﷺ, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I approach my Lord through you that my need be fulfilled," AFTER the passing away of the Prophet, sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam.
              (Al-Tabarani narrated it in al-Mu'jam al-Kabir 9/17. This narration is rigorously authentic (sahih) as stated by al-Haythamī in his majmā` al-zawā’id, p. 179, vol. 2; and al-Mundhirī in his al-targhīb wal tarhīb (1/273, no. 1018). The narration is also found in al-Tabarānī’s mu`jam al-saghīr (no. 508) where he declared the narration to be sahīh as well as his kitāb al-du`ā (2/1288).)

              - Bilal bin al-Harith al-Muzani - radhiallahu 'anhu - went to the grave of the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - during a drought and said "O Messenger of Allāh, ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished.".
              (The statement can be found in the narration of Malik al-Dar, which is authentic according to al-Hafidh Ibn Hajar [al-'Asqalani] (and other authorities of Hadith) and he identified the person in the narration as the companion Bilal bin al-Harith al-Muzani - radhiallahu 'anhu - through another route. See also the work "The Blazing Star in Defence of a Narration from Malik al-Dar", which proves its authenticiy beyond any doubt.)


              (Note: Any claims of "this is not authentic" will NOT be accepted! The classical authorities of Hadith - who are the very people who have transmitted us these Ahadith! - have authenticated it, so the unqualified opinions of al-Albani and other people in our time do NOT have any worth whatsoever!)
              Imam Taqi al-Din al-Subki (d. 756 AH) stated in his Shifa` al-Siqam (see p. 381-382) - which is a widely praised response to Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH), who for the first time in Islamic history (!) disallowed to travel with the intention to visit the Prophetic grave - the following:

              عن مالك الدار قال : أصاب الناس قحطٌ في زمان عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه ، فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال : يا رسول الله ، استسق لأمتك ، فإنهم قد هلكوا . فأتاه رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في المنام فقال : « إئت عمر ، فاقرأه السلام ، وأخبره أنهم مسقون ، وقل له : عليك الكَيْسَ الكَيْس » . فأتى الرجل عمر فأخبره ، فبكى عمر رضي الله عنه ثم قال : يا رب ، ما آلو إلَّا ما عجزتُ عنه .
              وَمحل الاستشهاد من هذا الأثر : طَلبهُ الاستسقاء من النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم بعد موته في مدة البرزخ ، ولا مانع من ذلك ، فإنَّ دعاء النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم لربه تعالى في هذه الحالة غير مُمتنعٍ ، وقد وردت الأخبار على ما ذكرنا ، ونَذكُر طَرفاً منه ، وَعِلمُهُ صلى الله عليه وسلم بسؤال من يَسألُه ؛ ورد أيضاً . ومع هذين الأمرين ؛ فلا مانع من أن يُسألَ النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم الاستسقاء كما كان يسأل في الدنيا


              “It is reported from Malik al-Dar that he said: “The people suffered a drought during the successorship of ‘Umar bin al-Khattab – radhiallahu ‘anhu -, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – and said: “O Messenger of Allah, ask [Allah] for rain for your community (Ummah), for verily they have but perished,” after which the Prophet – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – appeared to him in a dream and told him: “Go to ‘Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. And say to him: You must be clever, you must be clever!
              So the man came to ‘Umar and informed him, after which ‘Umar cried and then said: “O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!””
              And the point in mentioning this narration as a proof is: His asking for supplication for rain (Istisqa`) from the Prophet – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – after his death in the period of the Barzakh.
              There is nothing wrong with [doing] this, because the supplication (Du’a`) of the Prophet – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – to his Lord, may He be Exalted, in this situation is not impossible – and narrations have been reported regarding that which we’ve mentioned [here] and we mention a part of it – and his knowledge – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – regarding the question of the one asking him has also been reported.
              With these two matters [being established], then there is nothing wrong with asking the Prophet – sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam – to supplicate for rain just as he was asked [for this in his lifetime] in this world (Dunya).

              - end of quote -



              Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (d. 974 AH) stated in his al-Jawhar al-Munazzam (see p. 112):

              وقد يكون معنى التوسل به صلى الله عليه وسلم طلب الدعاء منه، إذ هو حي يعلم سؤال من يسأله، وقد صح في حديث طويل : أن الناس أصابهم قحط في زمن عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه فجاء رجل إلى قبر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فقال يا رسول الله استسق لأمتك فإنهم قد هلكوا، فأتاه النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في النوم وأخبره أنهم يسقون فكان كذلك، وفيه ائت عمر فأقرئه السلام وأخبره أنهم يسقون، وقل له : عليك الكيس الكيس أي : الرفق – لأنه رضي الله عنه كان شديدا في دين الله فأتاه خبره فبكى ، ثم قال يا رب لا آلو إلا ما عجزت عنه. – وفي رواية – أنَّ رائِيَ المنامَ بلالُ بن الحارث المزني الصحابي رضي الله عنه

              Tawassul could also mean seeking supplication from him for indeed he is living and knowing the question of the one who asks him. It has been authentically reported from a long Hadīth:

              The people suffered a drought during the successorship of `Umar رضي الله عنه, whereupon a man came to the grave of the Prophet and said:O Messenger of Allāh, ask for rain for your Community, for verily they have but perished," after which the Prophet appeared to him in a dream and told him that the rain shall come. And in it also it appears: "Go to `Umar and give him my greeting, then tell him that they will be watered. Tell him: You must be clever, you must be clever!

              Meaning, gentleness, because he was severe in the religion of Allāh.

              So he came to him and informed him, after which he cried and then said: O my Lord, I spare no effort except in what escapes my power!

              In another narration it states that the one who saw the dream was Bilāl ibn Hārith al-Muzanī, the companion رضي الله عنه.
              - end of quote -
              Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 09-10-20, 09:07 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                So Imam Abu Hanifa did not say a word in support of tawassul.

                He was also against this dua:


                Let us not forget: Imam Abu Hanifa (A.R) said, ‘When a hadith is found to be authentic, then that is my adopted position’. (Hashiya of Ibn Abidin vol.1 pg. 63)

                How Salafis forget these quotes when hadiths are used against them.

                There is no evidence that Abu Hanifa opposed Tasawwul. However there is authentic evidence indicating it's permissibility. Thus it is Abu Hanifa position.



                Abu Hanifa & Tawassul

                by Shaykh Gibril Haddad

                Imam Abu Hanifa: His Supposed Objection to Tawassul (Using Intermediaries)

                Imàm Abu Hanïfa nowhere objected to tawassul but only – as narrated from Abu Yosuf in Kitàb al-Àthàr–to the use of a specific wording in supplication, namely, “by the right You owe to So-and-so” (bi-haqqi fulàni ‘alayk), or “by the joints of power and glory in Your Throne” (bima ‘àqidal-‘izzmin‘arshik).[1] The reason for this is that, on the one hand, Allàh owes no-one any right whatso­ever except what He Himself conde­scends to state on His part as in the verse [To help believers is incumbent upon Us (haqqun ‘alaynà)](30:47). On the other hand, “by the right owed so-and-so” is an oath and is therefore a formula restricted to Allàh Himself on pains of shirk. Imàm Abu Hanïfa said: “Let one not swear any oath except by Allàh alone, with a pure affirmation of tawhïd and sincerity.”[2] A third reason is that the expression “the joints of power and glory in Your Throne” is a lone-narrator (àhàd) report and is therefore not retained nor put into practice, in accordance with the rule for any such reports that might suggest anthropomorphism.

                Those that claim [3] that the Imàm objected to tawassul altogether are unable to adduce any­thing to sup­port such a claim other than the above caveat, which is not against tawassul but against a specific, prohibitive wor­ding in tawassul. A proof of this is that it is permissi­ble in the Hanafï School to say “by the sanctity/honor of so-and-so in Your presence” (bi-hurmati/bi-jàhi fulàn). This is stated in the Fatàwà Bazzàziyya (6:351 in the margin of the Fatàwà Hindiyya) and is also the position of Abþ al-Layth al-Samarqandï among the major Hanafï Jurists, not to mention that of Imàm Ibn ‘Àbidïn among the later ones.

                Even so there is authentic evidence in [1] the hadïth of Fàtima bint Asad, [2] the hadïth of “the right of those who ask You,”[3] the hadïth: “O Allàh, I ask you by the joints of power in the Throne,” and [4] the hadïth: “Do you know the right owed to Allàh by His slaves and the right owed by Allàh to his slaves?”[4] to support the permissibility of such a wording. If the above objection is authentically reported from Abu Hanïfa then either he did not deem these hadïths authentic by his standards, or they did not reach him. An illustration of this is that Abu Yusuf permitted the formula “By the joints of power…”. [5] Further, the oppo­site is also reported from him, namely, that he per­mitted tawassul using those very expressions. Ibn ‘Àbidïn said: “In the Tatàrkhàniyya: The Àthàr also report what shows permissibility.” Then he cites–from al-Qàrï’s Sharh al-Niqàya, al-Munàwï quoting Ibn ‘Abd al-Salàm (cf. the very first of his Fatàwà in the printed Risàla edition), and al-Subkï – fur­ther explanations that it is permitted, then he cites the fatwa by Ibn Amïr al-Hajj in the thir­teenth chapter of Sharh al-Munya that such permissibility is not limited to tawassul through the Prophet e. i.e. it extends to the Sàlihïn.

                [1] Cf. al-Zabïdï, It hàf (2:285) and Ibn Abï al-‘Izz, Sharhal-‘Aqïda al-Tahàwiyya (1988 9th ed. p. 237).

                [2]Cf. al-Kasànï, Badà’i‘ al-Sanà’i‘ (3:8).

                [3]Cf. Ibn Taymiyya, Majmþ‘ al-Fatàwà (1:202-203) and his imitators.

                [4]The first hadïth is narrated from Anas by al-Tabarànï in al-Kabïr (24:351) and al-Awsat. (1:152) and Abu Nu‘aym in his Hilya (1985 ed. 3:121) with a chain contain­ing Rawh ibn Salàh concerning whom there is difference of opinion among the authorities. He is unknown according to Ibn al-Jawzï in al-‘Ilal al-Mutanàhiya (1:260-270), Ibn ‘Adï in al-Kàmil (3:146 #667), and al-Dàraqutnï in al-Mu’talif wal-Mukhtalif (3:1377); Ibn Màkþlà in al-Ikmàl (5:15) declared him weak while al-Hàkim asserted was trustwor­thy and highly dependable (thiqa ma’mun) – as men­tioned by Ibn Hajar in Lisàn al-Mïzàn (2:465 #1876), Ibn Hibbàn in­cluded him in al-Thiqàt (8:244), and al-Fasawï considered him trustworthy (cf. Mamdoh, Raf‘ [p. 148]). Al-Haythamï (9:257) said: “Al-Tabarànï narrated it in al-Kabïr and al-Awsat and its chain contains Rawh ibn Salàh whom Ibn Hibbàn and al-Hàkim declared trustworthy although there is some weakness in him, and the rest of its sub-narrators are the men of sound hadïth.” I was unable to find Abu Hàtim’s declaration of Rawh as trustworthy re­ported by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Alawï in his Mafàhïm (10th ed. p. 145 n. 1). Nor does Shaykh Mahmod Mamdohin his discussion of this hadïth in Raf‘ al-Minàra (p. 147-155) mention such a grading on the part of Abu Hàtim although he con­sid­ers Rawh “truthful” (sadaq) and not “weak” (da‘ïf), according to the rules of hadïth science when no reason is given with regard to a nar­rator’s purported discreditation (jarhmubham ghayr mufassar). Mamdoh(p. 149-150) noted that al­though Albànï in his Silsila Da‘ïfa (1:32-33) claims it is a case of explicated discreditation (jarh mufassar) yet he himself de­clares identi­cally-formulated dis­creditation cases as unexplicated and therefore unaccept­able in two dif­ferent contexts! Ibn ‘Alawï adds that the hadïth is also narrated from Ibn ‘Abbàs by Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr – without specifying where – and from Jàbir by Ibn Abï Shayba, but without the du‘à. Imàm al-Kawtharï said of this hadïth in his Maqàlàt (p. 410): “It provides textual evidence whereby there is no difference between the living and the dead in the context of using a means (tawassul), and this is explicit tawassul through the Proph­ets, while the hadïth of the Prophet from Abu Sa‘ïd al-Khudrï ‘O Allàh, I ask You by the right of [the promise made to] those who ask You (bihaqqi al-sà’ilïna ‘alayk)’* constitutes tawassul through the generality of Muslims, both the living and the dead.”

                *A hasan hadïth of the Prophet according to Shaykh Mahmod Mamdoh who showed in his mono­graph Mubàhathat al-Sà’irïn bi Hadïth Allàhumma Innï As’aluka bi-Haqqi al-Sà’ilïn, narrated from Abu Sa‘ïd al-Khudrï by Ahmad in his Musnad with a fair chain according to Hamza al-Zayn (10:68 #11099) – a weak chain according to al-Arna’þt(17:247-248 #11156) who considers it, like Abu Hàtim in al-‘Ilal (2:184), more like­ly a mawquf saying of Abu Sa‘ïd himself; Ibn Màjah with a chain he declared weak, Ibn al-Sunni in ‘Amal al-Yawm wa al-Layla (p. 40 #83-84), al-Bayhaqï in al-Da‘awàt al-Kabïr (p. 47= 1:47 #65), Ibn Khuzayma in al-Tawhïd (p. 17-18) [and his Sahïh (2:458?) as indicated by al-Busïrï in his Zawà’id (1:98-99)], al-Tabarànï in al-Du‘a (p. 149=2:990), Ibn Ja‘d in his Musnad (p. 299), al-Baghawï in al-Ja‘diyyat (#2118-2119) and – mawquf – by Ibn Abï Shayba (6:25=10:211-212) and Ibn Abï Hàtim in ‘Ilal al-Hadïth (2:184). Al-‘Iràqï in Takhrïj Ahàdïth al- Ihyà’ (1:291) graded it hasan as a marfu‘ Prophetic hadïth, as did the hadïth Masters al-Dimyàtï in al-Muttajir al-Ràbihfï Thawàb al-‘Amal al-Sàlih (p. 471-472), Ibn Hajar in Amàlï al-Adhkàr (1:272) and al-Mundhirï’s shaykh the hadïth Master Abu al-Hasan al-Maqdisï in al-Targhïb (1994 ed. 2:367 #2422=1997 ed. 2:304-305) and as indicated by Ibn Qudàma in al-Mughnï (1985 Dàr al-Fikr ed. 1:271). Shaykh Mamdohin his monograph refuted the reasoning of Nàsir Albànï and Hammàd al-Ansàrï in declaring this hadïth weak. The third hadïth is narrated from [1] the Companion Qayla bint Makhrama by al-Tabarànï in al-Kabïr (25:12) with a fair chain according to al-Haythamï (10:124-125); [2] Ibn Mas‘ud by al-Bayhaqï in al-Da‘awàt al-Kabïr (2:157 #392) – Ibn al-Jawzï in al-Mawdu‘àt (2:142) claimed that it was forged as cited by al-Zayla‘ï in Nasb al-Ràya (4:272-273) but this ruling was rejected by al-Suyutï in al-La’àli’ (2:68); [3] maqtþ‘ from Wuhayb by Abu Nu‘aym in the Hilya (1985 ed. 8:158-159); [4] Abþ Hurayra by Ibn ‘Asàkir with a very weak chain cf. Ibn ‘Arràq, Tanzïh al-Sharï‘a (1:228); and [5] Abþ Bakr in al-Tadwïn and al-Firdaws. The fourth is narrated from Mu‘àdh in the Six Books and Ahmad except for al-Nasà’ï.

                [5]Cf. al-Kàsànï, Badà’i‘ al-Sanà’i‘ (5:126).

                [6]Ibn ‘Àbidïn, Hàshiya (6:396-397).
                My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

                Comment


                • Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                  Let us not forget: Imam Abu Hanifa (A.R) said, ‘When a hadith is found to be authentic, then that is my adopted position’. (Hashiya of Ibn Abidin vol.1 pg. 63)

                  How Salafis forget these quotes when hadiths are used against them.

                  There is no evidence that Abu Hanifa opposed Tasawwul. However there is authentic evidence indicating it's permissibility. Thus it is Abu Hanifa position....
                  I've already read that piece which is all over the place. The mental gymnastics are incredible.

                  Bring everything Imam Abu Hanifa said about tawassul.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                    I've already read that piece which is all over the place. The mental gymnastics are incredible.
                    excellent

                    Bring everything Imam Abu Hanifa said about tawassul.
                    I personally think it is impossible to bring everything he said about Tawassul...

                    So I’ll give you the honors of bringing everything he said about it... since it appears you think it is possible...

                    My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                      excellent



                      I personally think it is impossible to bring everything he said about Tawassul...

                      So I’ll give you the honors of bringing everything he said about it... since it appears you think it is possible...
                      Can you bring anything at all? You are the one who attributed a position to him.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                        Can you bring anything at all? You are the one who attributed a position to him.
                        I already presented his position. He is very explicit... I’ll repost It...

                        Imam Abu Hanifa (A.R) said, ‘When a hadith is found to be authentic, then that is my adopted position’. (Hashiya of Ibn Abidin vol.1 pg. 63)

                        Reading is fundamental.
                        My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                          I already presented his position. He is very explicit... I’ll repost It...

                          Imam Abu Hanifa (A.R) said, ‘When a hadith is found to be authentic, then that is my adopted position’. (Hashiya of Ibn Abidin vol.1 pg. 63)

                          Reading is fundamental.
                          Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
                          ...There is no evidence that Abu Hanifa opposed Tasawwul. However there is authentic evidence indicating it's permissibility. Thus it is Abu Hanifa position....
                          It seems you will do anything, including false attribution, in order to justify your position.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post



                            It seems you will do anything, including false attribution, in order to justify your position.
                            it is not a false attribution, it is a general attribution on the basis of his conditional statement...





                            My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                              it is not a false attribution, it is a general attribution on the basis of his conditional statement...
                              It's false, dishonest, and dumb.

                              Comment


                              • There is one thing that I can't understand:

                                You "Salafi"-influenced people are objecting to seeking intercession with the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - and this based upon your [false] claim that "this goes against Tawhid", but at the very same time the so called "Salafis" print pagan books like "Establishment of limit for Allah 'azza wa jall and that He is seated and sitting upon His throne" ("Ithbat al-Hadd lillah 'azza wa jall wa bi-annahu qa'id wa jalis 'ala 'arshih") and praise these type of disgusting works.

                                Now if a person really cares for Tawhid and has Ghira for the religion of Allah ta'ala he would never ever praise such a book, because the one believing in what the name of the book states is a heretic (Zindiq) and not a Muslim in reality.

                                Comment

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