Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's lack of qualifications and the disasters that resulted from it!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Fuad Himeji
    replied
    Jazakumullah khair....

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post

    Asalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu

    I usually stay out of these sorts of threads, I don't like arguing and my distaste for a couple certain posters leads me to say things I could regret on qiyamah

    That being said be very wary of trusting anything that comes out of these people's mouths.

    So far on this site I have seen ahlul kalam justify Dua to other than Allah, excuse sujud made to other than Allah. I've seen them twist and say despicable things. Look at comparative religion section just about every thread attempting to call Christian's to Islam has been derailed into "the wahabis are evil"

    Ahlul kalam's time on this site you don't see them giving dawah to non Muslims you don't see them calling to good it's just wahabi this and wahabi that. Ibn taymiyah is attacked and Ahmed Raza Khan of the barelvis is defended.

    Ask them whether they believe the Quran is the speech of Allah and the convulted argument you get should tell you to be careful

    I ask you my sister to not learn your religion from ummah.com. go study with ulema not from people that copy paste from Wikipedia

    If you are interested https://www.youtube.com/user/KalemahUAE
    Has a series on qawidh arbah in which many of these points are addressed
    The scholar ibn Mubarak one had someone from ahlul bidah offer to read some quran to him. He refused lest a fitnah entered his heart. If that was Abdullah ibn Mubarak then what about people of our calibre not listening to Quran but getting into debates about kalam

    Finally this post is addressed to you alone I have no intention of getting dragged into an argument. Normally I stay away but I can't watch another person get led astray by these shayateen either

    Abu sulaym Muhammad Hasan etc reply if you will but I won't respond I have better things to do with my time than respond to worthless individuals. Make Dua for Allah to judge between us if you want I really care nothing about you
    ูˆุนู„ูŠูƒู… ุงู„ุณู„ุงู… ูˆุฑุญู…ุฉ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡

    I think you may be misunderstanding my comment.
    I didn't come to learn my religion on here. But I can't say I regret deciding to actually read some of the comments today. Of course everything needs to be verified. But honestly, some points deserve my attention. Me saying this doesn't mean I accept everything that is being said on here or that I completely distance myself from everything I've known. But it does mean I feel at unease with some things and I like to seek the truth and do deeper research regarding those matters. I took public accountability because I don't want to speak without knowledge nor do I want to be the reason for others to go astray. It was not necessarily me saying I completely agree with the opposing opinion. But it's true that I'm confused on some matters now.

    When I came on here one of my first comments was precisely about what you're saying now. That you shouldn't lend your ears to Ahlul-Bidah and have discussions with them. Maybe I'm being punished for lending my ears to Ahlul-Bid3ah and the guidance is being snatched away from me or maybe there's truth to what is being said and I have some serious things to reconsider. Either way it's frightening and I'll not be participating on here anymore ุฅู† ุดุงุก ุงู„ู„ู‡. I had left earlier and only came back because I found the site again through browsing a certain student which was a couple of days ago. ู‚ุฏุฑ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆู…ุง ุดุงุก ูุนู„

    Forgive me, but it's not proper to refer to your brothers as Shayateen and worthless. May Allah forgive us all. Our brothers have rights over us even if we disagree on matters. Please know that every word is either for or against you. I'm saying this not to put you on the spot so I hope you don't feel that way after your well meaning comment and concern, but because I wish the best for you too.

    I ask Allah to guide us all to the truth and that we may accept it from whomever it comes from. May Allah reward you for your good intentions. I appreciate your concern.

    Leave a comment:


  • eesa the kiwi
    replied
    Originally posted by TazkiyyatunNafs View Post
    I haven't been able to sleep after I started to read back in to the thread. I think it's only proper since I commented publicly, for me to also say the following publicly:

    1. I shouldn't have commented without reading the thread. Some things that I brought up had already been addressed, so my apologies for not having done that before replying.

    2. A lot of information stopped me in my tracks and I honestly don't feel the same about it at all. The thing is that I have his/their books from Usool at-Thalatha to Durar as-Saniyyah and I had never looked to them from this angle. I regret having said anything on this topic. I'd like to take accountability for that. And for anyone reading along to not take from my comments not here nor on the other threads where I posted on Ibn Abdul-Wahhab.

    In any way, I'm confused right now and will continue reading up on it ุฅู† ุดุงุก ุงู„ู„ู‡. I'll bow out now.

    ุฃุณุชุบูุฑ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุฃุชูˆุจ ุฅู„ูŠู‡
    ุงู„ุณู„ุงู… ุนู„ูŠูƒู… ูˆุฑุญู…ุฉ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡
    Asalamu alaikum wa rahmatullah wa barakatu

    I usually stay out of these sorts of threads, I don't like arguing and my distaste for a couple certain posters leads me to say things I could regret on qiyamah

    That being said be very wary of trusting anything that comes out of these people's mouths.

    So far on this site I have seen ahlul kalam justify Dua to other than Allah, excuse sujud made to other than Allah. I've seen them twist and say despicable things. Look at comparative religion section just about every thread attempting to call Christian's to Islam has been derailed into "the wahabis are evil"

    Ahlul kalam's time on this site you don't see them giving dawah to non Muslims you don't see them calling to good it's just wahabi this and wahabi that. Ibn taymiyah is attacked and Ahmed Raza Khan of the barelvis is defended.

    Ask them whether they believe the Quran is the speech of Allah and the convulted argument you get should tell you to be careful

    I ask you my sister to not learn your religion from ummah.com. go study with ulema not from people that copy paste from Wikipedia

    If you are interested https://www.youtube.com/user/KalemahUAE
    Has a series on qawidh arbah in which many of these points are addressed
    The scholar ibn Mubarak one had someone from ahlul bidah offer to read some quran to him. He refused lest a fitnah entered his heart. If that was Abdullah ibn Mubarak then what about people of our calibre not listening to Quran but getting into debates about kalam

    Finally this post is addressed to you alone I have no intention of getting dragged into an argument. Normally I stay away but I can't watch another person get led astray by these shayateen either

    Abu sulaym Muhammad Hasan etc reply if you will but I won't respond I have better things to do with my time than respond to worthless individuals. Make Dua for Allah to judge between us if you want I really care nothing about you

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    I haven't been able to sleep after I started to read back in to the thread. I think it's only proper since I commented publicly, for me to also say the following publicly:

    1. I shouldn't have commented without reading the thread. Some things that I brought up had already been addressed, so my apologies for not having done that before replying.

    2. A lot of information stopped me in my tracks and I honestly don't feel the same about it at all. The thing is that I have his/their books from Usool at-Thalatha to Durar as-Saniyyah and I had never looked to them from this angle. I regret having said anything on this topic. I'd like to take accountability for that. And for anyone reading along to not take from my comments not here nor on the other threads where I posted on Ibn Abdul-Wahhab.

    In any way, I'm confused right now and will continue reading up on it ุฅู† ุดุงุก ุงู„ู„ู‡. I'll bow out now.

    ุฃุณุชุบูุฑ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุฃุชูˆุจ ุฅู„ูŠู‡
    ุงู„ุณู„ุงู… ุนู„ูŠูƒู… ูˆุฑุญู…ุฉ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡

    Leave a comment:


  • Eyas Shah
    replied
    I love Muhsmmad ibn Abdul Wahhab. Who cares?

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

    Regarding the Hadith of Najd and the tribulations that will appear from the East and its connection to MIAW's "Najdi call"::

    From the authentic narrations we know that the Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - has informed us that tribulations will appear from the East and the scholars of the past spoke concerning this and mentioned different possibilities to understand this.
    It can be understood to be referring to whatever is East of al-Madina al-munawwara (starting with Najd!) and beyond it (i.e. Iraq, Khurasan, etc.).
    The very first tribulation that happened after the Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - passed away was that of the apostasy of some of the Arab tribes and the center of all of this was central Arabia (i.e. Najd!) and among the greatest leaders of these apostates was the false prophet and liar Musaylima (who was from Najd and so were his supporters!)!
    Trying to categorically (!) exclude Najd (!) from the very Hadith of Najd (!) (o the irony!) and those narrations regarding what will appear from the East is therefore absolutely unacceptable and only the followers of false prophets will insist upon excluding it stubbornly in order to defend their false ideas!


    Shaykh Sulayman bin 'Abd al-Wahhab al-Hanbali (d. 1208 AH) said (see al-Sawa'iq al-Ilahiyya):

    ูˆู…ู…ุง ูŠุฏู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุจุทู„ุงู† ู…ุฐู‡ุจูƒู… ู…ุง ููŠ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญูŠู† ุนู† ุงุจูŠ ู‡ุฑูŠุฑุฉ ุฑุถูŠ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู†ู‡ ุนู† ุงู„ู†ุจูŠ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุงู†ู‡ ู‚ุงู„ ุฑุฃุณ ุงู„ูƒูุฑ ู†ุญูˆ ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ูˆููŠ ุฑูˆุงูŠุฉ ุงู„ุงูŠู…ุงู† ูŠู…ุงู†ูŠ ูˆุงู„ูุชู†ุฉ ู…ู† ู‡ุงู‡ู†ุง ุญูŠุซ ูŠุทู„ุน ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุดูŠุทุงู† ูˆููŠ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญูŠู† ุงูŠุถุง ุนู† ุงุจู† ุนู…ุฑ ุฑุถูŠ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุชุนุงู„ู‰ ุนู†ู‡ ุนู† ุงู„ู†ุจูŠ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุงู†ู‡ ู‚ุงู„ ูˆู‡ูˆ ู…ุณุชู‚ุจู„ ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ุงู† ุงู„ูุชู†ุฉ ู‡ุงู‡ู†ุง ูˆู„ู„ุจุฎุงุฑูŠ ุนู†ู‡ ู…ุฑููˆุนุง ุงู„ู„ู‡ู… ุจุงุฑูƒ ู„ู†ุง ููŠ ุดุงู…ู†ุง ูˆูŠู…ู†ู†ุง ุงู„ู„ู‡ู… ุจุงุฑูƒ ู„ู†ุง ููŠ ุดุงู…ู†ุง ูˆูŠู…ู†ู†ุง ู‚ุงู„ูˆุง ูˆ ููŠ ู†ุฌุฏู†ุง ู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ู„ู‡ู… ุจุงุฑูƒ ู„ู†ุง ููŠ ุดุงู…ู†ุง ูˆูŠู…ู†ู†ุง ู‚ุงู„ูˆุง ูˆููŠ ู†ุฌุฏู†ุง ู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ุซุงู„ุซุฉ ู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุงู„ุฒู„ุงุฒู„ ูˆุงู„ูุชู† ูˆู…ู†ู‡ุง ูŠุทู„ุน ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุดูŠุทุงู† ูˆู„ุงุญู…ุฏ ู…ู† ุญุฏูŠุซ ุงุจู† ุนู…ุฑ ู…ุฑููˆุนุงู‹ ุงู„ู„ู‡ู… ุจุงุฑูƒ ู„ู†ุง ููŠ ู…ุฏูŠู†ุชู†ุง ูˆููŠ ุตุงุนู†ุง ูˆููŠ ู…ุฏู†ุง ูˆูŠู…ู†ู†ุง ูˆุดุงู…ู†ุง ุซู… ุงุณุชู‚ุจู„ ู…ุทู„ุน ุงู„ุดู…ุณ ูู‚ุงู„ ู‡ุงู‡ู†ุง ูŠุทู„ุน ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุดูŠุทุงู† ูˆู‚ุงู„ ู…ู† ู‡ุงู‡ู†ุง ุงู„ุฒู„ุงุฒู„ ูˆุงู„ูุชู† (ุงู†ุชู‡ู‰) ุงู‚ูˆู„ ุงุดู‡ุฏ ุงู† ุฑุณูˆู„ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ู„ุตุงุฏู‚ ูุตู„ูˆุงุช ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุณู„ุงู…ู‡ ูˆุจุฑูƒุงุชู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ู‡ ูˆุตุญุจู‡ ุงุฌู…ุนูŠู† ู„ู‚ุฏ ุงุฏู‰ ุงู„ุงู…ุงู†ุฉ ูˆุจู„ุบ ุงู„ุฑุณุงู„ุฉ ู‚ุงู„ ุงู„ุดูŠุฎ ุชู‚ูŠ ุงู„ุฏูŠู† ูุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ุนู† ู…ุฏูŠู†ุชู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุดุฑู‚ุง ูˆู…ู†ู‡ุง ุฎุฑุฌ ู…ุณูŠู„ู…ุฉ ุงู„ูƒุฐุงุจ ุงู„ุฐูŠ ุงุฏุนู‰ ุงู„ู†ุจูˆุฉ ูˆู‡ูˆ ุงูˆู„ ุญุงุฏุซ ุญุฏุซ ุจุนุฏู‡ ูˆุงุชุจุนู‡ ุฎู„ุงุฆู‚ ูˆู‚ุงุชู„ู‡ู… ุฎู„ูŠูุชู‡ ุงู„ุตุฏูŠู‚ (ุงู†ุชู‡ู‰) ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ุฏู„ุงู„ุฉ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซ ู…ู† ูˆุฌูˆู‡ ูƒุซูŠุฑุฉ ู†ุฐูƒุฑ ุจุนุถู‡ุง (ู…ู†ู‡ุง) ุงู† ุงู„ู†ุจูŠ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุฐูƒุฑ ุงู† ุงู„ุงูŠู…ุงู† ูŠู…ุงู†ูŠ ูˆุงู„ูุชู†ุฉ ุชุฎุฑุฌ ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ุฐูƒุฑู‡ุง ู…ุฑุงุฑุงู‹ (ูˆู…ู†ู‡ุง) ุงู† ุงู„ู†ุจูŠ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุฏุนู‰ ู„ู„ุญุฌุงุฒ ูˆุงู‡ู„ู‡ ู…ุฑุงุฑุงู‹ ูˆุงุจู‰ ุงู† ูŠุฏุนูˆ ู„ุงู‡ู„ ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ู„ู…ุง ููŠู‡ู… ู…ู† ุงู„ูุชู† ุฎุตูˆุตุงู‹ ู†ุฌุฏ (ูˆู…ู†ู‡ุง) ุงู† ุงูˆู„ ูุชู†ุฉ ูˆู‚ุนุช ุจุนุฏู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ูˆู‚ุนุช ุจุงุฑุถู†ุง ู‡ุฐู‡

    That which indicates the falseness of your [deviant] way is what can be found [reported] in the Sahihayn (see Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) on the authority of Abu Hurayra - may Allah be pleased with him - who narrated from the Prophet ๏ทบ that he said: "The summit of unbelief is towards the East."

    In another narration (see Sahih Bukhari): "Belief is Yemenite while afflictions appear from there (the east) from where the side of the head of Satan will appear."

    It's also [reported] in the Sahihayn (see Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim) on the authority of Ibn 'Umar - may Allah be pleased with him - narrating from the Prophet ๏ทบ that he said while facing the East: "Behold, turmoil would appear from this side[, from where the horns of Satan would appear.]"

    In [Sahih] al-Bukhari (see HERE too) also on his authority: "O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen. O Allah! Bless our Sham and our Yemen." [People] said, "Our Najd as well." [The Prophet again] said, "O Allah! Bless our Sham and Yemen." They said [again], "Our Najd as well." On that [the Prophet (๏ทบ)] said, "There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan."

    In the [Musnad] Ahmad there is [also] a narration on the authority of Ibn 'Umar [narrating from the Prophet ๏ทบ that he said]: "O Allah, bless us in our city and our Mudd and our Sa' and our Yemen and our Sham." Then he turned towards the direction were the sun rises (the east) and said "[From] there the horn of satan will appear, [from] there earthquakes and afflictions will appear.", end [of the narrations].

    I say: I testify that the Messenger of Allah ๏ทบ was indeed truthful, so may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him and all of his family and companions! He indeed fulfilled the trust and conveyed the message!
    The Shaykh Taqi al-Din said: "The East to his Madina (the city of the Prophet) ๏ทบ is where Musaylima - who claimed prophethood - came out and it's the first incident that happened after him. A [lot of] people started to followed [Musaylima] and his Khalifa [Abu Bakr] al-Siddiq faught against him.", end [of his statement].
    The proof in these narrations is from many directions and we shall mention some of them:
    From it: That the Prophet ๏ทบ mentioned that belief is Yemenite while afflictions will appear from the east and he said this repeatedly!
    From it: That the Prophet ๏ทบ supplicated for the Hijaz and its people repeatedly, while he refused to supplicate for the people of the east because of the afflictions that appear from them, especially Najd!
    From it: The first tribulation (i.e. the false prophet Musaylima causing apostasy among the people) that happened after [the Prophet] ๏ทบ [had passed away] happened in our land (i.e. Najd)!

    - end of quote -

    Then he said:

    ูู†ู‚ูˆู„ ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุงู…ูˆุฑ ุชุงู„ุชูŠ ุฌุนู„ูˆู† ุงู„ู…ุณู„ู… ุจู‡ุง ูƒุงูุฑ ู…ู† ู„ู… ูŠูƒูุฑู‡ ู…ู„ุงุกุช ู…ูƒุฉ ูˆุงู„ู…ุฏูŠู†ุฉ ูˆุงู„ูŠู…ู† ู…ู† ุณู†ูŠู† ู…ุชุทุงูˆู„ุฉ (ุจู„ ุจู„ุบู†ุง) ุงู† ู…ุง ููŠ ุงู„ุงุฑุถ ุงูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุงู…ูˆุฑ ููŠ ุงู„ูŠู…ู† ูˆุงู„ุญุฑู…ูŠู† ูˆุจู„ุฏู†ุง ู‡ุฐู‡ ู‡ูŠ ุงูˆู„ ู…ู† ุธู‡ุฑ ููŠู‡ุง ุงู„ูุชู† ูˆู„ุง ู†ุนู„ู… ููŠ ุจู„ุงุฏ ุงู„ู…ุณู„ูŠู…ู† ุงูƒุซุฑ ู…ู† ูุชู†ู‡ุง ู‚ุฏูŠู…ุงู‹ ูˆุญุฏูŠุซุงู‹ ูˆุงู†ุชู… ุงู„ุฃู† ู…ุฐู‡ุจูƒู… ุงู†ู‡ ูŠุฌุจ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุนุงู…ุฉ ุงุชุจุงุน ู…ุฐู‡ุจูƒู… ูˆุงู† ู…ู† ุงุชุจุนู‡ ูˆู„ู… ูŠู‚ุฏุฑ ุนู„ู‰ ุงุธู‡ุงุฑู‡ ููŠ ุจู„ุฏู‡ ูˆุชูƒููŠุฑ ุงู‡ู„ ุจู„ุฏู‡ ูˆุฌุจ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ุงู„ู‡ุฌุฑุฉ ุงู„ูŠูƒู… ูˆุงู†ูƒู… ุงู„ุทุงุฆูุฉ ุงู„ู…ู†ุตูˆุฑุฉ ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุฎู„ุงู ู‡ุฐุง ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซ ูุงู† ุฑุณูˆู„ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุงุฎุจุฑู‡ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุจู…ุง ู‡ูˆ ูƒุงุฆู† ุนู„ู‰ ุงู…ุชู‡ ุงู„ู‰ ูŠูˆู… ุงู„ู‚ูŠู…ุฉ ูˆู‡ูˆ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุงุฎุจุฑ ุจู…ุง ูŠุฌุฑูŠ ุนู„ูŠู‡ู… ูˆู…ู†ู‡ู… ูู„ูˆ ุนู„ู… ุงู† ุจู„ุงุฏ ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ุฎุตูˆุตุงู‹ ู†ุฌุฏ ุจู„ุงุฏ ู…ุณูŠู„ู…ุฉ ุงู†ู‡ุง ุชุตูŠุฑ ุฏุงุฑ ุงู„ุงูŠู…ุงู† ูˆุงู† ุงู„ุทุงุฆูุฉ ุงู„ู…ู†ุตูˆุฑุฉ ุชูƒูˆู† ุจู‡ุง ูˆุงู†ู‡ุง ุจู„ุงุฏ ูŠุธู‡ุฑ ููŠู‡ุง ุงู„ุงูŠู…ุงู† ูˆู„ุง ูŠุฎูู‰ ููŠ ุบูŠุฑู‡ุง ูˆุงู† ุงู„ุญุฑู…ูŠู† ุงู„ุดุฑูŠููŠู† ูˆุงู„ูŠู…ู† ุชูƒูˆู† ุจู„ุงุฏ ูƒูุฑ ุชุนุจุฏ ููŠู‡ุง ุงู„ุงูˆุซุงู† ูˆุชุฌุจ ุงู„ู‡ุฌุฑุฉ ู…ู†ู‡ุง ู„ุงุฎุจุฑ ุจุฐู„ูƒ ูˆู„ุฏุนู‰ ู„ุงู‡ู„ ุงู„ุดุฑู‚ ุฎุตูˆุตุงู‹ ู†ุฌุฏ ูˆู„ุฏุนู‰ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุญุฑู…ูŠู† ูˆุงู„ูŠู…ู† ูˆุงุฎุจุฑุงู†ู‡ู… ูŠุนุจุฏูˆู† ุงู„ุงุตู†ุงู… ูˆุชุจุฑุฃ ู…ู†ู‡ู… ุงุฐ ู„ู… ูŠูƒู† ุงู„ุงุถุฏ ุฐู„ูƒ ูุงู†ู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุนู… ุงู„ู…ุดุฑู‚ ูˆุฎุต ู†ุฌุฏ ุจุงู† ู…ู†ู‡ุง ูŠุทู„ุน ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุดูŠุทุงู† ูˆุงู† ู…ู†ู‡ุง ูˆููŠู‡ุง ุงู„ูุชู† ูˆุงู…ุชู†ุน ู…ู† ุงู„ุฏุนุงุก ู„ู‡ุง ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุฎู„ุงู ุฒุนู…ูƒู… ูˆุงู† ุงู„ูŠูˆู… ุนู†ุฏูƒู… ุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุฏุนู‰ ู„ู‡ู… ุฑุณูˆู„ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ูƒูุงุฑ ูˆุงู„ุฐูŠู† ุงุจุง ุงู† ูŠุฏุนูˆู„ู‡ู… ูˆุงุฎุจุฑ ุงู† ู…ู†ู‡ุง ูŠุทู„ุน ู‚ุฑู† ุงู„ุดูŠุทุงู† ูˆุงู† ู…ู†ู‡ุง ุงู„ูุชู† ู‡ูŠ ุจู„ุงุฏ ุงู„ุงูŠู…ุงู† ุชุฌุจ ุงู„ู‡ุฌุฑุฉ ุงู„ูŠู‡ุง ูˆู‡ุฐุง ุจูŠู† ูˆุงุถุญ ู…ู† ุงู„ุงุญุงุฏูŠุซ ุงู† ุดุงุก ุงู„ู„ู‡

    Then we say: These issues for which you regard a Muslim as a disbeliever - when he doesn't make Takfir upon those committing them -, then Makka, Madina and Yemen have been filled with them for a long time. Rather it has reached us that in lands other than Yemen and the Haramayn these issues are even more.
    Our land (Najd) is the first one where afflictions appeared and we do not know any of the lands of the Muslims in the past and the present, where more afflictions can be found.
    [But] upon your [deviant] way it's obligatory upon the generality of the people to follow your way and [also] that it's obligatory for the one who follows [your way] - but is not able to show it openly in his land and make Takfir upon the people of his land - to emigrate (Hijra) to you. [You also claim] that you are the victorious group. [All of] this is in opposition to these narrations.
    Indeed the Messenger of Allah ๏ทบ has been informed by Allah [ta'ala] regarding that which will happen to his nation (Umma) until the day of judgement and he ๏ทบ has informed [his nation] what will happen to them and from them. So if he knew that that the lands of the east - especially Najd, the land of Musaylima! - will become the place for [pure] belief (Dar al-Iman) and that the victorious group (al-Ta`ifa al-Mansura) will be in them and that they're lands where [correct] belief will be become apparent and it will not disappear [except] in other than it and that al-Haramayn al-sharifayn and Yemen will become lands of disbelief where idols are worshipped and that emigrating away from them [to the east] would become obligatory and so on, then he would have supplicated for the people of the east - especially Najd! - and against the people of the Haramayn and Yemen and he would have informed [us that they'll] worship idols and would have shown disavowal towards them, if the issue would not be opposite to this.
    For [the Prophet] ๏ทบ spoke in general regarding the east and specified Najd [in this context] and [said that] the HORN OF SATAN (Qarn al-Shaytan) will come out from it and that in it and from it will appear afflictions / tribulations and he refused to supplicate for it!
    [This is] in opposition to your claim, because those for whom [the Prophet] ๏ทบ supplicated are disbelievers today according to you, while those for whom he refused to supplicate and informed that from them the horn of satan will come out and from them afflictions will appear, they are the lands of belief [and] it's obligatory to emigrate to them [according to you].
    [The falseness of] this [understanding of yours] is obvious and clear from the narrations, insha`Allah.

    - end of quote -


    Several proofs that the Prophet ๏ทบ and his companions differentiated between Iraq and Najd

    - From Sahih al-Bukhari on the authority of Ibn 'Umar, radhiallahu 'anhuma:

    ุบูŽุฒูŽูˆู’ุชู ู…ูŽุนูŽ ุฑูŽุณููˆู„ู ุงู„ู„ู‘ูŽู‡ู ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ู‚ูุจูŽู„ูŽ ู†ูŽุฌู’ุฏูุŒ ููŽูˆูŽุงุฒูŽูŠู’ู†ูŽุง ุงู„ู’ุนูŽุฏููˆู‘ูŽ ููŽุตูŽุงููŽูู’ู†ูŽุง ู„ูŽู‡ูู…ู’โ€

    I took part in a Ghazwa towards Najd along with Allah's Messenger (๏ทบ) and we clashed with the enemy, and we lined up for them.
    - end of quote -

    The above Najd is quite obviously the Najd we all know of, because the Ghazwa on 'Iraq was after the Messenger of Allah - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - had passed away.

    - Also from Sahih al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Hurayra, radhiallahu 'anhu:

    ุจูŽุนูŽุซูŽ ุฑูŽุณููˆู„ู ุงู„ู„ู‘ูŽู‡ู ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุฎูŽูŠู’ู„ุงู‹ ู‚ูุจูŽู„ูŽ ู†ูŽุฌู’ุฏูุŒ ููŽุฌูŽุงุกูŽุชู’ ุจูุฑูŽุฌูู„ู ู…ูู†ู’ ุจูŽู†ููŠ ุญูŽู†ููŠููŽุฉูŽ ูŠูู‚ูŽุงู„ู ู„ูŽู‡ู ุซูู…ูŽุงู…ูŽุฉู ุจู’ู†ู ุฃูุซูŽุงู„ูุŒ ููŽุฑูŽุจูŽุทููˆู‡ู ุจูุณูŽุงุฑููŠูŽุฉู ู…ูู†ู’ ุณูŽูˆูŽุงุฑููŠ ุงู„ู’ู…ูŽุณู’ุฌูุฏูโ€

    Allah's Messenger (๏ทบ) sent some horse men to Najd and they brought a man called Thumama bin Uthal from Bani Hanifa. They fastened him to one of the pillars of the mosque.
    - end of quote -

    Note that Thumama bin Uthal was the leader of the Bani Hanifa tribe in Yamama (i.e. Najd!). The Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - let him free after the above incident, after which he came back and accepted Islam and aided the Muslims thereafter, so may Allah ta'ala be pleased with him!

    - From Sunan al-Nasa`i on the authority of 'A`isha, radhiallahu 'anha:

    ูˆูŽู‚ู‘ูŽุชูŽ ุฑูŽุณููˆู„ู ุงู„ู„ู‘ูŽู‡ู ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ู„ุฃูŽู‡ู’ู„ู ุงู„ู’ู…ูŽุฏููŠู†ูŽุฉู ุฐูŽุง ุงู„ู’ุญูู„ูŽูŠู’ููŽุฉู ูˆูŽู„ุฃูŽู‡ู’ู„ู ุงู„ุดู‘ูŽุงู…ู ูˆูŽู…ูุตู’ุฑูŽ ุงู„ู’ุฌูุญู’ููŽุฉูŽ ูˆูŽู„ุฃูŽู‡ู’ู„ู ุงู„ู’ุนูุฑูŽุงู‚ู ุฐูŽุงุชูŽ ุนูุฑู’ู‚ู ูˆูŽู„ุฃูŽู‡ู’ู„ู ู†ูŽุฌู’ุฏู ู‚ูŽุฑู’ู†ู‹ุง ูˆูŽู„ุฃูŽู‡ู’ู„ู ุงู„ู’ูŠูŽู…ูŽู†ู ูŠูŽู„ูŽู…ู’ู„ูŽู…ูŽ

    The Messenger of Allah designated Dhul-Hulaifah as the Miqat for the people of Al-Madinah, Al-Juhfah for the people Ash-sham and Egypt, Dhat 'Irq for the people Al-'Iraq, Qarn for the people of Najd and Yalamlam for the people of Yemen.
    - end of quote -

    The Miqat of Qarn (remember the Ahadith regarding Najd and the East said "Qarn al-Shaytan"... what a coincidence!!!) for the people of Najd and differentiating it from the people of 'Iraq is also mentioned in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, so this issue is established with certainty!!!


    Proving that the Qarn al-Shaytan (the horn of satan) will appear from [the lands of] Rabi'a and Mudar (who live in Najd!)

    - From Sahih al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Mas'ud, radhiallahu 'anhu:

    ุฃูŽู†ู‘ูŽ ุงู„ู†ู‘ูŽุจููŠู‘ูŽ ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ู‚ูŽุงู„ูŽ โ€"โ€ ุงู„ุฅููŠู…ูŽุงู†ู ู‡ูŽุง ู‡ูู†ูŽุง โ€"โ€โ€.โ€ ูˆูŽุฃูŽุดูŽุงุฑูŽ ุจููŠูŽุฏูู‡ู ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ ุงู„ู’ูŠูŽู…ูŽู†ู โ€"โ€ ูˆูŽุงู„ู’ุฌูŽููŽุงุกู ูˆูŽุบูู„ูŽุธู ุงู„ู’ู‚ูู„ููˆุจู ูููŠ ุงู„ู’ููŽุฏู‘ูŽุงุฏููŠู†ูŽุŒ ุนูู†ู’ุฏูŽ ุฃูุตููˆู„ู ุฃูŽุฐู’ู†ูŽุงุจู ุงู„ุฅูุจูู„ู ู…ูู†ู’ ุญูŽูŠู’ุซู ูŠูŽุทู’ู„ูุนู ู‚ูŽุฑู’ู†ูŽุง ุงู„ุดู‘ูŽูŠู’ุทูŽุงู†ู ุฑูŽุจููŠุนูŽุฉูŽ ูˆูŽู…ูุถูŽุฑูŽ

    The Prophet (๏ทบ) beckoned with his hand towards Yemen and said, "Belief is there. The harshness and mercilessness are the qualities of those farmers etc, who are busy with their camels and pay no attention to the religion (is towards the east) from where the side of the head of Satan will appear; those are the tribes of Rabi`a and Mudar."
    - end of quote -

    - From Sahih Muslim on the authority of Ibn Mas'ud, radhiallahu 'anhu:

    ุฃูŽุดูŽุงุฑูŽ ุงู„ู†ู‘ูŽุจููŠู‘ู ุตู„ู‰ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ูˆุณู„ู… ุจููŠูŽุฏูู‡ู ู†ูŽุญู’ูˆูŽ ุงู„ู’ูŠูŽู…ูŽู†ู ููŽู‚ูŽุงู„ูŽ โ€ "โ€ ุฃูŽู„ุงูŽ ุฅูู†ู‘ูŽ ุงู„ุฅููŠู…ูŽุงู†ูŽ ู‡ูŽุง ู‡ูู†ูŽุง ูˆูŽุฅูู†ู‘ูŽ ุงู„ู’ู‚ูŽุณู’ูˆูŽุฉูŽ ูˆูŽุบูู„ูŽุธูŽ ุงู„ู’ู‚ูู„ููˆุจู ูููŠ ุงู„ู’ููŽุฏู‘ูŽุงุฏููŠู†ูŽ ุนูู†ู’ุฏูŽ ุฃูุตููˆู„ู ุฃูŽุฐู’ู†ูŽุงุจู ุงู„ุฅูุจูู„ู ุญูŽูŠู’ุซู ูŠูŽุทู’ู„ูุนู ู‚ูŽุฑู’ู†ูŽุง ุงู„ุดู‘ูŽูŠู’ุทูŽุงู†ู ูููŠ ุฑูŽุจููŠุนูŽุฉูŽ ูˆูŽู…ูุถูŽุฑูŽ

    The Messenger of Allah (may peace and blessings be upon him) pointed towards Yemen with his hand and said:
    "Verily Iman is towards this side, and harshness and callousness of the hearts is found amongst the rude owners of the camels who drive them behind their tails (to the direction) where emerge the two horns of Satan, they are the tribes of Rabi'a and Mudar."

    - end of quote -

    It's not needed to be stated here that Rabi'a and Mudar live in Najd and not in Iraq, so the issue is really absolutely clear!

    Imam Badr al-Din al-'Ayni (d. 855 AH) said in his 'Umdat al-Qari Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari 15/192:

    ู‚ูŽูˆู’ู„ู‡ " ูููŠ ุฑุจูŠุนูŽุฉ ูˆูŽู…ูุถุฑ " ูŠุชูŽุนูŽู„ู‘ูŽู‚ ุจู‚ูˆู„ู‡ ูููŠ ุงู„ู’ููŽุฏุงุฏููŠู† ุฃูŽูŠ ุงู„ู…ุตูˆุชูŠู† ุนูู†ู’ุฏ ุฃูŽุฐู’ู†ูŽุงุจ ุงู„ู’ุฅูุจูู„ ูˆูŽู‡ููˆูŽ ูููŠ ุฌูู‡ูŽุฉ ุงู„ู’ู…ุดุฑู‚ ุญูŽูŠู’ุซู ู‡ููˆูŽ ู…ุณูƒู† ู‡ูŽุงุชูŠู† ุงู„ู‚ุจูŠู„ุชูŠู† ุฑุจูŠุนูŽุฉ ูˆูŽู…ูุถุฑ

    His statement "in the tribes of Rabi'a and Mudar" is connected to the farmers - meaning those who are behind the tails of their camels - and it (i.e. the emergence of the horn of satan) will be from the direction of the east and it is where these two tribues - Rabi'a and Mudar - live.
    - end of quote -

    Now the surprise:

    Muhammad bin Sa'ud (d. 1179 AH) - who is the founder of first Saudi state and the one who started all these killings of the Muslims on the Arabian peninsula after his alliance with the false prophet Muhammad bin 'Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1206 AH) is from Bani Hanifa - the tribe of the false prophet Musaylima! -, which is a branch of Rabi'a!

    Additional information: One of the first actions that brought negative publicity to MIAW was him desecrating the grave (!) of the companion Zayd bin al-Khattab - the brother of 'Umar bin al-Khattab! - (may Allah be pleased with both of them) in his home-town 'Uyayyna. Why was his grave there?
    The answer: Zayd bin al-Khattab had been martyred during the battle of Yamama (i.e. in Najd!) against the supporters of the false prophet Musaylima!

    Yet, the followers of MIAW - in their shamelessness! - are trying to tell us that Najd is not included in the Hadith of Najd (!) and this while Najd was the center of apostasy in the time of the Sahabat al-kiram - radhiallahu 'anhum - and the first tribulation happened there!


    One last point: Their sign is shaving [ their heads]!!

    From Sahih al-Bukhari on the authority of Abu Sa'id al-Khudhri, radhiallahu 'anhu:

    ุงู„ู†ูŽู‘ุจููŠูู‘ ุตูŽู„ูŽู‘ู‰ ุงู„ู„ูŽู‘ู‡ู ุนูŽู„ูŽูŠู’ู‡ู ูˆูŽุณูŽู„ูŽู‘ู…ูŽ ู‚ูŽุงู„ูŽ ูŠูŽุฎู’ุฑูุฌู ู†ูŽุงุณูŒ ู…ูู†ู’ ู‚ูุจูŽู„ู ุงู„ู’ู…ูŽุดู’ุฑูู‚ู ูˆูŽูŠูŽู‚ู’ุฑูŽุกููˆู†ูŽ ุงู„ู’ู‚ูุฑู’ุขู†ูŽ ู„ูŽุง ูŠูุฌูŽุงูˆูุฒู ุชูŽุฑูŽุงู‚ููŠูŽู‡ูู…ู’ ูŠูŽู…ู’ุฑูู‚ููˆู†ูŽ ู…ูู†ู’ ุงู„ุฏูู‘ูŠู†ู ูƒูŽู…ูŽุง ูŠูŽู…ู’ุฑูู‚ู ุงู„ุณูŽู‘ู‡ู’ู…ู ู…ูู†ู’ ุงู„ุฑูŽู‘ู…ููŠูŽู‘ุฉู ุซูู…ูŽู‘ ู„ูŽุง ูŠูŽุนููˆุฏููˆู†ูŽ ูููŠู‡ู ุญูŽุชูŽู‘ู‰ ูŠูŽุนููˆุฏูŽ ุงู„ุณูŽู‘ู‡ู’ู…ู ุฅูู„ูŽู‰ ูููˆู‚ูู‡ู ู‚ููŠู„ูŽ ู…ูŽุง ุณููŠู…ูŽุงู‡ูู…ู’ ู‚ูŽุงู„ูŽ ุณููŠู…ูŽุงู‡ูู…ู’ ุงู„ุชูŽู‘ุญู’ู„ููŠู‚ู ุฃูŽูˆู’ ู‚ูŽุงู„ูŽ ุงู„ุชูŽู‘ุณู’ุจููŠุฏู

    The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, โ€œThere will come a people from the east, who recite the Quran but it does not go beyond their throats. They will go out of the religion, just as an arrow pierces through its target, and they will not return to it, just as the arrow does not return to the bow.โ€ It was said, โ€œWhat will be their sign?โ€ The Prophet said, โ€œTheir sign is shaving.โ€ Or he said, โ€œIt is shearing.โ€
    - end of quote -

    This is why one of the scholars of their time said that it's not needed to refute them, because them shaving their heads is enough as a proof against them!


    And here we have one of the Khariji grandsons of MIAW telling us that they would indeed shave their heads "because the disbelievers of our time (he's intending Muslims as usual!) do not shave [their heads], so not shaving has become something that makes one similar to them" (from Majmu'at al-Rasa`il wal Masa`il al-Najdiyya 5/578):

    ูˆุฃู…ุง ุงู„ุณุคุงู„ ุงู„ุฎุงู…ุณ ุนู† ุญู„ู‚ ุดุนุฑ ุงู„ุฑุฃุณ: ูุงู„ุฐูŠ ุชุฏู„ ุนู„ูŠู‡ ุงู„ุฃุญุงุฏูŠุซ ุงู„ู†ู‡ูŠ ุนู† ุญู„ู‚ ุจุนุถู‡ ูˆุชุฑูƒ ุจุนุถู‡ุŒ ูุฃู…ุง ุชุฑูƒู‡ ูƒู„ู‡ ูู„ุง ุจุฃุณ ุจู‡ ุฅุฐุง ุฃูƒุฑู…ู‡ ุงู„ุฅู†ุณุงู† ูƒู…ุง ุฏู„ุช ุนู„ูŠู‡ ุงู„ุณู†ุฉ ุงู„ุตุญูŠุญุฉ.ูˆุฃู…ุง ุญุฏูŠุซ ูƒู„ูŠุจุŒ ูู‡ูˆ ูŠุฏู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑ ุจุงู„ุญู„ู‚ ุนู†ุฏ ุฏุฎูˆู„ู‡ ููŠ ุงู„ุฅุณู„ุงู… ุฅู† ุตุญ ุงู„ุญุฏูŠุซุŒ ูˆู„ุง ูŠุฏู„ ุนู„ู‰ ุฃู† ุงุณุชู…ุฑุงุฑ ุงู„ุญู„ู‚ ุณู†ุฉ.ูˆุฃู…ุง ุชุนุฒูŠุฑ ู…ู† ู„ู… ูŠุญู„ู‚ ูˆุฃุฎุฐ ู…ุงู„ู‡ ูู„ุง ูŠุฌูˆุฒุŒ ูˆูŠู†ู‡ู‰ ูุงุนู„ู‡ ุนู† ุฐู„ูƒุ› ู„ุฃู† ุชุฑูƒ ุงู„ุญู„ู‚ ู„ูŠุณ ู…ู†ู‡ูŠุง ุนู†ู‡ุŒ ูˆุฅู†ู…ุง ู†ู‡ู‰ ุนู†ู‡ ูˆู„ูŠ ุงู„ุฃู…ุฑุ› ู„ุฃู† ุงู„ุญู„ู‚ ู‡ูˆ ุงู„ุนุงุฏุฉ ุนู†ุฏู†ุงุŒ ูˆู„ุง ูŠุชุฑูƒู‡ ุฅู„ุง ุงู„ุณูู‡ุงุก ุนู†ุฏู†ุง 1 ูู†ู‡ู‰ ุนู† ุฐู„ูƒ ู†ู‡ูŠ ุชู†ุฒูŠู‡ุŒ ู„ุง ู†ู‡ูŠ ุชุญุฑูŠู… ุณุฏุง ู„ู„ุฐุฑูŠุนุฉุ› ูˆู„ุฃู† ูƒูุงุฑ ุฒู…ุงู†ู†ุง ู„ุง ูŠุญู„ู‚ูˆู†ุ› ูุตุงุฑ ููŠ ุนุฏู… ุงู„ุญู„ู‚ ุชุดุจู‡ุง ุจู‡ู…
    - end of quote -

    Is there anything more left to be said after this? Wallahul musta'an!
    This has definitely given me food for thought.. Allahul Musta3an.

    Leave a comment:


  • Abu Sulayman
    replied
    Originally posted by TazkiyyatunNafs View Post
    These are some from the other thread:



    Having posted that, I'd like to say that I don't like to discuss it. I did a bit on the other thread and I just don't want to do any of it anymore. I posted this to show you what my understanding is from the Shaykh's works. Now I know there are quotes that may indicate otherwise, but I think they hang together in the end. Anyway, I'm ignorant. I'm not eligible to discuss this in any way. And Allaah knows best.
    The statement you quoted is from Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's (d. 1206 AH) letter to the people of al-Qassim - which by the way was later on attacked by his followers! - and it proves that he did not shy away to LIE OPENLY. I showed in this comment here that almost every single point that he denied in this letter was a lie:

    - Proving that the scholars were truthful regarding Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1206 AH) and that IAW himself was the liar!

    The scholar whom he accused of making a "great slander" against him was a Hanbali scholar (I've quoted him here: "'Allama Ibn Suhaym al-Hanbali (d. 1181 AH) regarding the extremism of IAW"). MIAW went on to make Takfir upon this scholar and upon his father and upon his whole tribe (i.e the 'Aniza tribe). Is this how scholars react to criticism?
    He also made OPEN Takfir upon the two top Hanbali scholars of the whole region (alongside other Hanbali scholars!): 'Allama Ibn Fayruz (d. 1216 AH) and 'Allama Ibn 'Afaliq (d. 1164 AH). The 'Allama Ibn Fayruz even fled from Ahsa` to Basra, because IAW followers were trying to actively kill all scholars of the region!

    Instead of defending this man, try to inform yourself more about this person. And please don't assume that Muslims were committing "Shirk akbar" - as IAW falsely claimed! - and that you now have to "excuse them" for this in order not to look extreme. The issue is not like this! These people whom he was making Takfir of where not upon "Shirk akbar" in the very first place! He redefined Shirk and Tawhid in order to be able to declare war on other Muslims! Please understand this.

    Our Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - has been given knowledge by Allah ta'ala regarding what will happen in the future and what dangers his Umma will face until the day of judgement. He - 'alayhil salatu wal salam - warned us what he feared for us and what not!
    And we know that he did NOT fear that we will become polytheists, because he stated so! Why are the words of the Chosen One - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - thrown behind ones back and the false claims of some person appearing more than 1000 years after the Hijra are put above his blessed words?

    It's only in the end of times that the people in the Arabian peninsula will return to real Shirk and not before!


    Anyways if you want to see how extreme MIAW and his early followers were, then it has already been proven by using their own books:

    - The results of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's ignorance and extreme ideas on a theoretical level (includes Takfir against scholars, cities, whole regions and basically the whole Umma!):
    Part 1, Part 2, Part 3
    - The results of Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's ignorance and extreme ideas on a practical level (includes terrorizing, robbing, burning down fields, cutting trees and mass-killing the Muslims of the Arabian peninsula and surrounding regions; Part 12 is specifically regarding what they did to the people of the Haramayn al-Sharifayn and their stopping of the Hajj!):
    Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4, Part 5, Part 6, Part 7, Part 8, Part 9, Part 10, Part 11, Part 12, Part 13
    - Different examples of stealing, killing and destruction caused by Wahhabis according to 'Unwan al-Majd
    - Translations of some of the examples given on the theoretical and practical results of MIAW's extremism and ignorance


    The sources that I used are by the Najdis themselves:
    - al-Durar al-Saniyya fil Ajwiba al-Najdiyya, which is praised by leading "Salafis" despite its ugly Takfiri content
    - Tarikh Najd by Hussayn bin Ghannam (d. 1225 AH), who is a direct student of IAW
    - 'Unwan al-Majd fi Tarikh Najd by 'Uthman bin Bishr (d. 1288 AH) (here is also the 2nd volume) (hardcore supporter of IAW) (Tahqiq and footnotes by 'Abd al-Latif bin 'Abd al-Rahman (d. 1292 AH), the great-grandson of IAW)


    The whole problem is that people nowadays don't want to read. If they would simply read these sources - while being a normal Muslim - they would NOT try to defend a man whose followers STOPPED the Hajj and who would OPENLY make Takfir upon the people of Makka al-mukarrama and upon whosoever does not make Takfir upon them and made other such crazy Khariji statements and were actively involved in mass-killing Muslims.
    Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 15-11-20, 11:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
    These are quotes from the second article:

    What I meant is that nobody should derive this conclusion after reading Prof. Sulaiman's account. The Najdi movement considers those actions as major Shirk and they differ with regards to Uder bil-Jahl.

    The point I'm making though is that Yasir Qadhi does not consider the default of those action to be Shirk. When Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab went on his expeditions he did so under the guise that those who engaged in these practices were esseentially Mushrikeen. This is where he deviated regardless if he established the Hujjah upon them.
    I see, I get your point now.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmantuBillahi
    replied
    These are quotes from the second article:
    "This situation was not only specific for the Najd region, but paganism, polytheism and the worshipping of saints and tombs was a widespread phenomenon in the Islamic world under Ottoman rule. To give an example of 18th and 19th century Damascus."
    "So after more than 400 years of Ottoman rule in Arabia and the Najd region specifically, this was the situation. An area filled with tribal rivalry, rampant polytheism, insecurity and instability, was the reality Shaykh Muhammed ibn โ€˜Abd al-Wahhรขb was confronted with."
    "So it is proven beyond the slightest doubt that al-Imaam Muhammed bin โ€˜Abd al-Wahรขb โ€“ rahiemahullรขh โ€“ was confronted with a society that was filled with shirk and unislamic customs."
    Originally posted by TazkiyyatunNafs View Post
    You're speaking now about Muslims nullifying their Islaam and becoming Mushrikeen as if any of that has been mentioned yet, which so far hasn't been the case*. And per my own understanding even though the Shaykh used to regard those actions as Shirk, he also excused them due to ignorance. We've had a discussion on this topic before where I shared some of his words on this topic, if I have the time I'll try to look them up and re-share them - in shaa Allaah. So yes, the people did fall into Shirk according to them, but even the Shaykh himself didn't make absolute Takfir on them.
    What I meant is that nobody should derive this conclusion after reading Prof. Sulaiman's account. The Najdi movement considers those actions as major Shirk and they differ with regards to Uder bil-Jahl.

    The point I'm making though is that Yasir Qadhi does not consider the default of those action to be Shirk. When Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab went on his expeditions he did so under the guise that those who engaged in these practices were esseentially Mushrikeen. This is where he deviated regardless if he established the Hujjah upon them.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

    The author in the first article admitted that he had no idea why Yasir Qadhi switched his views on this issue. He even went as far as saying he might have did for worldly benefits.

    I'm not trying to be hasty in judgement but the second article seems to indicate how they intend on proving their case. What is missing in the new YQ from the old YQ is his consideration of the widespread 'Shirk' during that period.

    Anyway this is the crux of the argument for the Najdis. You have to somehow justify the statements and "Ghazwat" of MIAW and the early Najdiyya.
    I didn't like when they assumed that about YQ and I personally don't like to assume how they're intending to prove their case. Though one is obviously less harmful than the other.

    I do like to say that the author said that after having done extensive research he couldn't find a rational explanation as to why he has changed his views. That sounds quite different than you saying he admitted he has no idea why YQ changed his views. Either way it doesn't condone his statement on YQ.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    These are some from the other thread:

    Originally posted by TazkiyyatunNafs View Post

    The Shaykh didn't make mass takfir on the ummah. Rather he had a clear principle he worked by which was that he doesn't make takfir on individuals as long as the proof was not established on them and they were eligible for the excuse of ignorance. This is a very important matter and precisely why the Shaykh keeps saying that he doesn't make takfir on the masses. This is just slander that his enemies used against him. In the same volume he says this:

    โ€œAnd as for takfฤซr: Then I make takfฤซr of the one who knew (the reality) of the religion of the Messenger, and then after he came to know it, he reviled it, prohibited the people from it and showed enmity to the one who implemented it. This is the one I declare a disbeliever and most of the ummah, and all praise is due to Allฤh, is not like that. As for fighting, then we did not fight anyone till this day except to protect our lives and honour. They are the ones who came to our lands, and they left no [other] possibility [for us]. However, we may sometimes fight some of them from the angle of reprisal [i.e. for their unjust attack against us], and the reward for evil is [an evil] of its like.โ€Al-Durar al-Saniyyah (1/73)


    "And when it is the case that we do not make takfฤซr of the one who worships the idol (tomb) which is on the grave of สฟAbd al-Qฤdir, and the idol which is on the grave of Aแธฅmad al-Badawฤซ and their likes, due to their ignorance, and the absence of the one to notify them (of their opposition), then how could we make takfฤซr of the one who does not associate partners with Allฤh, when he does not emigrate to us and who does not make takfฤซr and does not fight (against us)? โ€œGlory be to you (O Lord), this is a mighty slander.โ€ (24:16). Fatawa wa Masฤสพil in Majmลซสฟ Muสพallafฤt (4/11)


    Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhฤb (may Allahโ€™s mercy be upon him) said in reply to Sulaymฤn Ibn Suhaym who accused him of takfฤซr:

    โ€œIndeed Allah knows that this man has fabricated lies against me by ascribing to me what I never said, and most of which have never even occurred to me! From them is his claim that I invalidate the books of the Four Madhhabs, and that I say that the people (i.e. the ummah) has been upon nothing (i.e. no Islam) for 600 years! And that I make takfฤซr of the one who makes Tawassul (seeks nearness to Allah) through the righteous ones [who have passed away]. He claims that I made takfฤซr of Al-Busayriโ€ฆ and that I said that whoever swears by other than Allah is an unbelieverโ€ฆ My answer to all of this is: โ€˜How free you are, O Allah, from all imperfections, the Most Perfect. Indeed this is a great slander.โ€™ And before this, there were those who slandered the Messenger Muhammad (๏ทบ) claiming that he had reviled Jesus the son of Mary (may Allahโ€™s peace be upon them) and that he reviles the righteous. So their hearts resemble one another in their fabrication of lies and bearing false witness.โ€

    Sharhu Aqฤซdat Al-Imฤm Al-Mujaddid Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahhฤb, by Shaikh, Dr. Sฤlih Al-Fawzฤn, pp. 142-156.
    Having posted that, I'd like to say that I don't like to discuss it. I did a bit on the other thread and I just don't want to do any of it anymore. I posted this to show you what my understanding is from the Shaykh's works. Now I know there are quotes that may indicate otherwise, but I think they hang together in the end. Anyway, I'm ignorant. I'm not eligible to discuss this in any way. And Allaah knows best.
    Last edited by TazkiyyatunNafs; 15-11-20, 10:13 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • AmantuBillahi
    replied
    Originally posted by TazkiyyatunNafs View Post

    I think the article made clear that they wanted to address this first so it would give further insight before addressing the claims Yasir Qadhi made. As they wrote: "The reason we began with this extremely important point is that the New Yasir did not mention this at all..."

    The author has only posted introductions so far and hasn't even addressed any of the claims mentioned in the video, so how could you then say it's clear he is not knowledgeable enough to pick up on what was being addressed in the video?

    Let me make clear that I'm not defending the author or the site per se, I shared it because you said the 'Salafi Community' (which is broad since people that ascribe to Salafiyyah differ in many issues) in the West has been silent about that video.

    โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹
    The author in the first article admitted that he had no idea why Yasir Qadhi switched his views on this issue. He even went as far as saying he might have did for worldly benefits.

    I'm not trying to be hasty in judgement but the second article seems to indicate how they intend on proving their case. What is missing in the new YQ from the old YQ is his consideration of the widespread 'Shirk' during that period.

    Anyway this is the crux of the argument for the Najdis. You have to somehow justify the statements and "Ghazwat" of MIAW and the early Najdiyya.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

    What is described in the quote is not necessarily condemned as major Shirk without further investigation. When Prof. Sulaiman uses the phrase "places of worship" it should not be understood as Muslims worshipping the graves and tombs of pious people.

    This should also not be interpreted as large regions of Muslims nullifying their Islam and becoming Mushrikeen. The examples in the quote are not ruled as major Shirk without investigating the specific details of those practices.

    1. The author has not proven beyond the slightest doubt that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was confronted by a society filled with Shirk. Rather the only thing he did was use Wahhabi theology to condemn the very actions the majority of scholars do not consider major Shirk to prove his point.
    You're speaking now about Muslims nullifying their Islaam and becoming Mushrikeen as if any of that has been mentioned yet, which so far hasn't been the case*. And per my own understanding even though the Shaykh used to regard those actions as Shirk, he also excused them due to ignorance. We've had a discussion on this topic before where I shared some of his words on this topic, if I have the time I'll try to look them up and re-share them - in shaa Allaah. So yes, the people did fall into Shirk according to them, but even the Shaykh himself didn't make absolute Takfir on them.

    *Now as a disclaimer I want to make clear that I'm not speaking on behalf of the author since there's a group ascribing to Salafiyyah who don't apply the excuse of ignorance. So it may be that the author doesn't apply the excuse of ignorance. People ascribing to Salafiyyah are not a one size fits all. Again, I shared this piece not because I necessarily agree with it, but because you claimed the 'Salafi Community' has been silent about it.

    โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹Wa Allaahu a3lam.
    Last edited by TazkiyyatunNafs; 15-11-20, 09:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazkiyyatunNafs
    replied
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post




    What is described in the quote is not necessarily condemned as major Shirk without further investigation. When Prof. Sulaiman uses the phrase "places of worship" it should not be understood as Muslims worshipping the graves and tombs of pious people.



    This should also not be interpreted as large regions of Muslims nullifying their Islam and becoming Mushrikeen. The examples in the quote are not ruled as major Shirk without investigating the specific details of those practices.



    1. The author has not proven beyond the slightest doubt that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was confronted by a society filled with Shirk. Rather the only thing he did was use Wahhabi theology to condemn the very actions the majority of scholars do not consider major Shirk to prove his point.

    2. Yasir Qadhi didn't mention the state of Najd during his podcast because he spent a significant portion of his time explaining why MIAW's understanding of Shirk was not mainstream in the first place.

    With all due to respect to the author, it is clear that he is not knowledgeable enough to pick up on what was being addressed in the video and shouldn't be writing articles refuting others.
    I think the article made clear that they wanted to address this first so it would give further insight before addressing the claims Yasir Qadhi made. As they wrote: "The reason we began with this extremely important point is that the New Yasir did not mention this at all..."

    The author has only posted introductions so far and hasn't even addressed any of the claims mentioned in the video, so how could you then say it's clear he is not knowledgeable enough to pick up on what was being addressed in the video?

    Let me make clear that I'm not defending the author or the site per se, I shared it because you said the 'Salafi Community' (which is broad since people that ascribe to Salafiyyah differ in many issues) in the West has been silent about that video.

    โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹

    Leave a comment:


  • AmantuBillahi
    replied
    Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

    The state of Najd prior to the Da'wah of Ibn Abdul Wahhab:

    https://www.sahieh.nl/2020/10/22/ans...abd-al-wahhab/

    Prof. Sulaiman al-Huqali wrote about 18th century Najd: โ€œIn the field of religion, paganism and polytheism had made inroads into the belief of many people. Graves and tombs of saints and pious people had become places of worship. Supplication to living and dead saints had become common. The traits and characters forbidden by Islam had spread far and wide and the mystic schools had become popular resorts for deviants. These were the circumstances when Shaykh Muhammed ibn Abd al-Wahhรขb launched his reformation movement.โ€
    What is described in the quote is not necessarily condemned as major Shirk without further investigation. When Prof. Sulaiman uses the phrase "places of worship" it should not be understood as Muslims worshipping the graves and tombs of pious people.

    Prof. Sulaiman al-Huqali wrote: โ€œIn the Hijaz, supplication at graves was rampant. The grave of Khadija (May Allah be pleased with her) at al Muโ€™allรขt and the Tomb of Abu-Talib were among the places of supplication and invoking intercession for worldly gain. In Yemen, as in Hudyeda, Hadramaut and Yafi โ€˜, famous graves and tombs were the centres of supplication and worship. Similarly in Syria, Damascus, Aleppo and remote parts were full of such places, where people used to go to seek blessings. In Iraq, the graves of Abu-Hanifah, and Maโ€™arรปf Karkhi were places of such activities. Shiites, likewise, did the same at Najaf, the place where Ali ibn Abu-Talib (May Allah be pleased with him) was martyred, and at the tombs of Husain and Kazim in Karbala. People used to come to these graves and such places, supplicated and worshipped there and wanted these graves, tombs, etc. to fulfil their needs and remove their difficulties.
    This should also not be interpreted as large regions of Muslims nullifying their Islam and becoming Mushrikeen. The examples in the quote are not ruled as major Shirk without investigating the specific details of those practices.

    So it is proven beyond the slightest doubt that al-Imaam Muhammed bin โ€˜Abd al-Wahรขb โ€“ rahiemahullรขh โ€“ was confronted with a society that was filled with shirk and unislamic customs.

    The reason we began with this extremely important point is that the New Yasir did not mention this at all and doesnโ€™t mention what the daโ€™wah of the Mujaddid brought of Islamic and Social and Political improvements in the Arabian Peninsula! He brought more positive change than his opponents who ruled the area for more than 400 years!
    1. The author has not proven beyond the slightest doubt that Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was confronted by a society filled with Shirk. Rather the only thing he did was use Wahhabi theology to condemn the very actions the majority of scholars do not consider major Shirk to prove his point.

    2. Yasir Qadhi didn't mention the state of Najd during his podcast because he spent a significant portion of his time explaining why MIAW's understanding of Shirk was not mainstream in the first place.

    With all due to respect to the author, it is clear that he is not knowledgeable enough to pick up on what was being addressed in the video and shouldn't be writing articles refuting others.

    Leave a comment:

Collapse

Edit this module to specify a template to display.

Working...
X