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Belief of Hanbalis / Atharis (past) vs "Salafis"

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  • Originally posted by .Hajar.
    Seriously, I don't understand why some of you here even bother asking Islam related questions from someone as haughty and arrogant as AbuNajm? Why do you even indulge him? I am not just talking about this particular thread, there is at least one more thread where he threw a hissy fit. He is an Arabic translator who lacks the proper manners and/or etiquette of discussing Islamic matters. You just have to see his response(s) to those who don't agree with him to know.
    Maybe you're right sister

    Allah swt knows best

    Comment


    • Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post
      Seriously, I don't understand why some of you here even bother asking Islam related questions from someone as haughty and arrogant as AbuNajm? Why do you even indulge him? I am not just talking about this particular thread, there is at least one more thread where he threw a hissy fit. He is an Arabic translator who lacks the proper manners and/or etiquette of discussing Islamic matters. You just have to see his response(s) to those who don't agree with him to know.
      I think Simply's questions came from a good place. But AbuNajm is obviously not the right person to ask. I think even Salafis would agree he's not doing a good job representing them.

      Simply_Logical, I'm sorry he questioned your motives. Please don't let it prevent you from asking questions in the future insha'Allah. If you have questions for Salafis, you're better off asking their students of knowledge. I don't care what AbuNajm portrays himself to be, his comments obviously lack elements of knowledge, manners and wisdom that even an ignoramus like me can spot from a mile away.

      Please brother I suggest you make a lot of dua and ask Allah to guide you in these matters. I was a Salafi and started to make a specific dua for the right Aqeedah and Manhaj (and this while believing I had already found it with the Salafis). Nonetheless I continued with this dua and subhanAllah I changed my thoughts on this issue and would classify myself now as a non Salafi Athari or Traditional Athari. May Allah guide you and your loved ones to what pleases Him most.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
        A brother stated:

        I can't lie to me as a layman thisis a complex and complicated subject if being honest, I want to ask and know what is the safest opinion on this matter and what's classed as the middle path?


        This was my response:

        Surat al-Ikhlas, my brother!
        If you believe in it, then you're on the safe side regarding the Tawhid of Allah ta'ala.

        Our noble Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - used to regard it as equal to one-third of the Qur`an and this should be enough for you to understand its importance!


        Now look at the response of AbuNajm :

        The "safest" opinion on this matter is NOT to believe as the Ash'aris and deviants believe about Allah AWJ. It is their objective to confuse and bewilder laypeople with terms like "accidents" and "limbs". They intentionally indulge in philosophical terms and paint the true beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah as "anthropomorphism" and "Disbelief".

        Allah AWJ most certainly has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms, among other Perfect Attributes. And He AWJ laughs, gets angry, descends, is on His Throne, hears, sees, loves, hates, and is above creation, just as any layperson would understand those statements.

        There is no need to explain them except to a person keen on negating them or falsely interpreting them as something other than what they apparently mean.

        What gets complicated is responding to Ash'aris and Jahmis using their arguments and terms. That is why only scholars of Aqidah specialized in refutations and responses to such people. That is why many scholars do not allow laypeople to even listen to such discussions until they're well-established in the foundational principles and beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah first.


        Note the big difference between our replies: I told the brother to return to that which our noble Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - himself HIGHLIGHTED and that is Surat al-Ikhlas, which was sent down when the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - was asked regarding a DESCRIPTION of Allah ta'ala!
        While AbuNajm wants him to return to his OPINION of how the Creator should be described!


        Billahi 'alayk AbuNajm, did the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - ever describe Allah ta'ala in the manner you did?! If you were to ask the Sahaba - may Allah ta'ala be please with them all - would a single one of them give your description of Him subhanahu wa ta'ala or would they rather give the description highlighted by the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam)?

        If you say: But the wording of "Qadam" and "Saq" and "Asabi'" and the like have been mentioned in authentic narrations, then the answer is: This is correct, but what happened to the context? The Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - stated these words in a specific context and it's obvious in all these narrations that the intent is to establish something else as that which you think and we will implement the rules of the Arabic language upon these narrations whether you like it or not!

        So take for example the narration of Nuzul (descent): It's obvious that the point of the narration is to establish that the last third of the night is a special time where supplications are accepted and that Allah ta'ala is nearer to us in these times (and the nearness of Allah ta'ala is obviously not a physical or sensory one!).
        The point is NOT to establish a literal displacement from a higher place to a lower place as people like Harras believe nor is it to establish the genus of movements!
        And this is just one example, which quite obviously shows how far away you are from proper understanding.
        Some brothers / sisters here had a discussion with a quite evil atheist (before a year I think) , who was somewhat informed regarding Islam and used this knowledge (superficial, but anyways) in order to twist issues and lie against Islam.
        I also took part in the discussion and presented the rational foundation for the correctness of Islam and asked him to present his foundation for atheism.

        After running away from answering again and again, he tried to answer, but not by being able to reject any of the rational foundations of Islam nor being able to present a rational defense of his atheism.
        He answered by claiming that Islam teaches corporeality of the Creator and used "Salafi" sources as a "proof".
        So the way the "Salafis" present their creed isn't just dangerous, but gives also a false impression regarding the Islamic creed.


        Now back to our current conversation:


        ​​Ater asking maybe ten times the same question, the "Salafi" was unable to answer and declare Allah ta'ala transcendent from being a corporeal being - meaning a 3-dimensional being or say a being with height, width and depth - nor was he able to declare the one believing the Creator to be a 3-dimensional being to be upon a great mistake.

        ​​​​​​This type of mindset is very dangerous and those societies where this type of mindset becomes widespread are more prone to atheism, because this mindset assumes that nothing exists except that it is material or corporeal or physical (and this is an atheist assumption in the first place).
        ​​

        ​​​​​​
        Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 25-01-21, 03:00 PM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BintFulaan
          Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post
          Seriously, I don't understand why some of you here even bother asking Islam related questions from someone as haughty and arrogant as AbuNajm? Why do you even indulge him? I am not just talking about this particular thread, there is at least one more thread where he threw a hissy fit. He is an Arabic translator who lacks the proper manners and/or etiquette of discussing Islamic matters. You just have to see his response(s) to those who don't agree with him to know.
          I think Simply's questions came from a good place. But AbuNajm is obviously not the right person to ask. I think even Salafis would agree he's not doing a good job representing them.

          Simply_Logical, I'm sorry he questioned your motives. Please don't let it prevent you from asking questions in the future insha'Allah. If you have questions for Salafis, you're better off asking their students of knowledge. I don't care what AbuNajm portrays himself to be, his comments obviously lack elements of knowledge, manners and wisdom that even an ignoramus like me can spot from a mile away.

          Please brother I suggest you make a lot of dua and ask Allah to guide you in these matters. I was a Salafi and started to make a specific dua for the right Aqeedah and Manhaj (and this while believing I had already found it with the Salafis). Nonetheless I continued with this dua and subhanAllah I changed my thoughts on this issue and would classify myself now as a non Salafi Athari or Traditional Athari. May Allah guide you and your loved ones to what pleases Him most.
          Yea I don't think he is painting a good picture for the salafi brothers and sisters tbh

          Sister this kinda reminds me of some sufism who have 'hidden' knowledge when it comes to taweez/amulets and adjab (numerology),
          I say this because they don't like when you question stuff

          Thing is with the truth it will shine no matter how many questions are thrown at it

          Yea I am the same I sort of became salafi and followed this believe this belief too but I no.longer consider myself salafi and don't follow that methodology tbh

          Sister you seem to be in the same boat as me

          I personally believe Islam is the truth but within islam there's a truth

          As in every group claims to be on the straight path but only Allah swt knows who really is

          Allah swt knows best ,🤲💯

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post


            ​​Ater asking maybe ten times the same question, the "Salafi" was unable to answer and declare Allah ta'ala transcendent from being a corporeal being - meaning a 3-dimensional being or say a being with height, width and depth - nor was he able to declare the one believing the Creator to be a 3-dimensional being to be upon a great mistake.

            ​​​​​​This type of mindset is very dangerous and those societies where this type of mindset becomes widespread are more prone to atheism, because this mindset assumes that nothing exists except that it is material or corporeal or physical (and this is an atheist assumption in the first place).
            ​​

            ​​​​​​
            Your delusional .. Allah SWT has cursed you .. all you can do is criticize your brothers in Islam, seeking to cause division.
            You are not teaching anybody anything .. 'Eesa the kiwi''s posts are MUCH more enlightening than yours!
            He maketh me to lie down in green pastures; He leadeth me beside the still waters - Psalms (Zaboor of Dawood)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

              Yea I don't think he is painting a good picture for the salafi brothers and sisters tbh

              Sister this kinda reminds me of some sufism who have 'hidden' knowledge when it comes to taweez/amulets and adjab (numerology),
              I say this because they don't like when you question stuff

              Thing is with the truth it will shine no matter how many questions are thrown at it

              Yea I am the same I sort of became salafi and followed this believe this belief too but I no.longer consider myself salafi and don't follow that methodology tbh

              Sister you seem to be in the same boat as me

              I personally believe Islam is the truth but within islam there's a truth

              As in every group claims to be on the straight path but only Allah swt knows who really is

              Allah swt knows best ,🤲💯
              I apologize to you if it seemed my post was specifically directed at you, it wasn't. It was just kinda frustrating to see him getting away with atrocious behavior whilst claiming to have some knowledge of Islamic stuff.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post

                Your delusional .. Allah SWT has cursed you .. all you can do is criticize your brothers in Islam, seeking to cause division.
                You are not teaching anybody anything .. 'Eesa the kiwi''s posts are MUCH more enlightening than yours!
                Really?! You're talking about him criticising his brothers while claiming Allah has cursed him. Isn't that quite ironic?

                As well as you mentioning Eesa the kiwi here. I don't mean any disrespect, but I have never seen Abu Sulayman use the words Eesa has used for his brothers on here. So you bringing him up in this comment is just not it. Please be just and fair.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post

                  Your delusional .. Allah SWT has cursed you .. all you can do is criticize your brothers in Islam, seeking to cause division.
                  You are not teaching anybody anything .. 'Eesa the kiwi''s posts are MUCH more enlightening than yours!
                  yea you might disagree with him but why say Allah swt has cursed him?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post

                    I apologize to you if it seemed my post was specifically directed at you, it wasn't. It was just kinda frustrating to see him getting away with atrocious behavior whilst claiming to have some knowledge of Islamic stuff.
                    nah dont worry sis, i didnt even think anything of it tbh

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by isa_muhammad View Post

                      Your delusional .. Allah SWT has cursed you .. all you can do is criticize your brothers in Islam, seeking to cause division.
                      You are not teaching anybody anything .. 'Eesa the kiwi''s posts are MUCH more enlightening than yours!
                      "Salafism" is a new movement, which exists only since 200 years and since its rise it has caused a lot of division and problems. So please don't point your finger at my reaction to it, but rather what caused my reaction.

                      This movement started with Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1206 AH) and his alliance with Ibn Sa'ud (d. 1179 AH), who found followers among the ignorant people. They then started attacking the Muslims of the whole region until they reached even the Haramayn, Iraq, the Levant, Yemen and other regions and even stopped the Hajj. The number of Muslims that were killed at their hands was very huge - and only Allah ta'ala knows their number - and not once did they lift up their swords against the invading disbelievers!
                      (For those interested in proofs for what was stated: "Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab's lack of qualifications and the disasters that resulted from it!" with its [not fully up-to-date] table of contents)

                      In the last century the third Saudi state then started to spread their ideas through their petro-dollars and started to use lies, deception and propaganda in order to replace classical Islam with their fake version of it.

                      Until the appearance of the Najdis traditional Islam was represented by the 4 Madhahib in jurisprudence and the Ash'aris, Maturidis and Hanbalis in creed.
                      There existed other groups alongside them, but the people were not confused regarding who the Sunnis were and who not.
                      This however changed in the last century.

                      Due to the absence of the Khilafa and the widespread ignorance and the deception they were able to misguide a lot of Muslims and turn them into the enemies of the rest of the Muslims. Even in our times a lot of blood was shed due to their ideas and my country is the best example for this.

                      My intention with these type of threads here is to inform my brothers and sisters regarding this tribulation, so that they're not fooled by the deception of this new group, who have mixed the creed of the Mushabbiha and Khawarij and added to it Dhahirism and no clear principles in jurisprudence.

                      The "Salafi" laymen are my brothers and sisters in Islam and I ask my Lord to guide us and them and I hope that they will return to the Sunna. I even respect some of their students of knowledge, who are not evil minded.

                      My harshness in these threads is directed against their Mashayikh and those who blindly defend them.
                      I obviously don't respect their Mashayikh, because of them being deceptive and not even shying away from openly lying and them calling to very dangerous beliefs. (In my eyes they're not different to the Mashayikh of the Rafidha.)


                      As for eesa the kiwi:
                      How is this thread connected to him and when did I ever compare myself to him?
                      May Allah ta'ala bless him for whatever good he does and guide him in mistakes to the truth.
                      Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 25-01-21, 06:53 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Iraq has been attacked indiscriminately for over a century from the British, Iran, the US, not to mention Baathists and secular violence but Iraq is the best example of ‘salafi violence.’

                        Harsh on the believers, soft on the disbelievers.

                        Any doubts about this sectarian clown should be alleviated by this alone.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                          Yea I don't think he is painting a good picture for the salafi brothers and sisters tbh

                          Sister this kinda reminds me of some sufism who have 'hidden' knowledge when it comes to taweez/amulets and adjab (numerology),
                          I say this because they don't like when you question stuff

                          Thing is with the truth it will shine no matter how many questions are thrown at it

                          Yea I am the same I sort of became salafi and followed this believe this belief too but I no.longer consider myself salafi and don't follow that methodology tbh

                          Sister you seem to be in the same boat as me

                          I personally believe Islam is the truth but within islam there's a truth

                          As in every group claims to be on the straight path but only Allah swt knows who really is

                          Allah swt knows best ,🤲💯
                          There is actually no obligation upon you to follow a specific group. In fact after the fall of the Khilafa it's not advisable to follow any modern group, because there are narrations which indicate this.

                          But what one should do is to adhere to classic Islam - represented by the 4 Madhahib in jurisprudence and the Ash'aris, Maturidis and Hanbalis in creed - and this because the people through whom Allah ta'ala protected this religion and transmitted it until our time were upon this. This is something no one will be able to deny.

                          ​​​​​​If a person believes in the Arkan al-Iman and acts upon the Arkan al-Islam and stays away from the clear sins (especially the greater ones), then he's insha`Allah on the safe side.
                          ​​​​​​
                          It's not obligatory upon the laymen to know any of these detailed discussions, but when a person is confused or has doubts, then he should inform himself in order to end his confusion and doubts.
                          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 25-01-21, 07:18 PM.

                          Comment


                          • The normal Sunni Muslim, who wants to learn more about his religion is neither in a great danger to become pro-British nor pro-American nor pro-Shi'a, but he is in danger to be fooled by "Salafi" Mashayikh and this because the internet and the media is filled with them when it comes to Islam (thanks to the petro-dollars).

                            As for violence: I think it's no secret how much I hate the accursed American state and their crimes against Muslims and non-Muslims alike (starting with their genocide against the native American population). Unjustified killing is to be condemned no matter by whom it is done and no matter against whom.

                            As for the sectarian war in Iraq: Then it only started after the American invasion and formation of AQI / ISI / ISIS.
                            Since the American presence has become much less and since ISIS has been defeated, there is literally no sectarian killing anymore! This is a matter of fact and this indicates that the main forces who kept this sectarian war alive were these two satanic forces.
                            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 25-01-21, 07:47 PM.

                            Comment


                            • The Iraq-Iran war and all the Sunni/Shia/Baathist/secular violence was all famously started by ISIS. What a twerp. Like anyone is going to get fooled by that.
                              Last edited by Abu 'Abdullaah; 25-01-21, 07:56 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Muslims are in no great danger when they seek and adopt secular values such as democracy, LGBT. abortion, feminism, etc. These things have relatively little presence on the internet which is dominated by Wahhabis.

                                I mean, is there anything more dishonest and degenerate than that way of thinking?

                                Comment

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