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Belief of Hanbalis / Atharis (past) vs "Salafis"

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  • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

    โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹If he would have lost some people dear to him - may Allah ta'ala protect him from this - at the hand of these people, then he would have a completely other opinion regarding them.
    โ€‹โ€‹
    Which shouldn't even be necessary. I agree with what you wrote here:

    Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
    Being ignorant of the pain of other Muslims is an indication for not caring about them.
    Whenever a Muslim brother or sister is oppressed and in pain, then it is our own brother and own sister that is in pain.
    It does not make any difference whether these Muslims are from Palestine, Kashmir Afghanistan, East Turkestan, Iraq, Syria, Burma, Yemen, Libya or any other place upon this globe!
    May Allah guide the Muslims.
    Last edited by BintFulaan; 24-01-21, 01:40 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

      If you can tell me the word for "physically" in Arabic, then I can respond, In Sha' Allah.

      None of these matters should be solely understood in English, as the English language is insufficient for discussing Islamic concepts and terms.

      If by "physical" you mean "ุจุฏู†ูŠ", "ูููŠุฒูŠูŽุงุฆููŠ", "ุฌุณุฏูŠ", then, my answer is, no.

      If by "physical" you mean "ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠ", or "ุจุงู„ุธุงู‡ุฑ ู…ุนู†ู‰ ุงู„ู†ุฒูˆู„", then, my answer is, yes.

      Allah's descent is "real" and "actual" as Ahl as-Sunnah maintains. It is not "metaphorical" or "figurative" as the Ash'aris and Jahmis believe.
      well what do those two words in arabic translate to in english? i just mean physical as in physical sense

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

        Even some famous Najdis have studied at the hands of Azhari Mashayikh and among them 'Abd al-Latif bin 'Abd al-Rahman Al al-Shaykh (d. 1293 AH)! He had studied under the Azhari 'Allama al-Bajuri (d. 1276 AH).

        Note that while he was in Egypt he would do full Taqiyya - like a worthless Rafidhi or Batini - in order to study under Azhari scholars (because he knew that they were 100 times more knowledgeable in the different Islamic sciences than them) whom he himself regarded as "polytheists" and then when he was back home proved beyond any doubt that he was a hardcore Takfiri (see some of his ugly statements HERE).

        These are the people that "Salafis" look up to!
        โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹โ€‹
        what group do the al azhar follow? athari, ashari, maturidi etc

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

          what group do the al azhar follow? athari, ashari, maturidi etc
          Al-Azhar al-sharif teaches the Ash'ari way in 'Aqida and it has been like this since its establishment as a Sunni institution of learning at the hands of one of the righteous servants of Allah, the Sultan Salah al-Din Al-Ayyubi [al-Ash'ari] (d. 589 AH). May Allah ta'ala have mercy upon him.
          But since all 4 Madhahib are teached there, there are also Hanbali students.

          Currently the Shaykh Muhammad al-Sayyid Mustafa is the Shaykh of the Hanabila at al-Azhar. He teaches also Hanbali / Athari creed outside of al-Azhar.
          Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 24-01-21, 07:16 PM.

          Comment


          • A brother asked the following:

            Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

            Just curious brother do you believe that when it comes to tahajjud time the last third of the night Allah swt actually physically moves to the first heaven?
            And this was the response of AbuNajm:

            Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

            If you can tell me the word for "physically" in Arabic, then I can respond, In Sha' Allah.

            None of these matters should be solely understood in English, as the English language is insufficient for discussing Islamic concepts and terms.

            If by "physical" you mean "ุจุฏู†ูŠ", "ูููŠุฒูŠูŽุงุฆููŠ", "ุฌุณุฏูŠ", then, my answer is, no.

            If by "physical" you mean "ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠ", or "ุจุงู„ุธุงู‡ุฑ ู…ุนู†ู‰ ุงู„ู†ุฒูˆู„", then, my answer is, yes.

            Allah's descent is "real" and "actual" as Ahl as-Sunnah maintains. It is not "metaphorical" or "figurative" as the Ash'aris and Jahmis believe.
            My response:

            The one asking you is not speaking Arabic in order for you to ask him the above. This religion was sent for all humankind, so if you're unable to respond to such easy questions in a clear manner, then this is really not a good thing.
            You should also learn how you present your creed to other people. If you tell people "we believe in a real descent", then what they will understand is a movement from a higher place to a lower one! Is this what you want people to believe regarding your creed?!

            Allah ta'ala is not a material or physical being in order for his Nuzul (descent) to be physical, rather He is beyond all of His Creation - outside space and time! - such that the divine descent is also something beyond our imagination or comprehension.

            If you insist on an Arabic word, then I would say a descent that is "Hissi" (sensory) is what is intended with a physical descent and it's obviously impossible regarding the Creator to be described with this.

            Then: You say that the "Dhahir meaning of Nuzul" is intended. Do you know what the Dhahir meaning of Nuzul is? It's the literal lexical meaning, which is displacement from a higher place to a lower place and the Egyptian "Salafi" Muhammad Khalil Harras even openly affirmed this! (Many other "Salafis" don't openly affirm movement in wording, but do affirm it meaning such that in their mind the divine Nuzul is from the genus of movements! Exalted is Allah with supreme Exaltation above their false imaginations!)

            Compare this now with traditional Hanabila: They believe in the divine descent and say regarding the narration "pass it one as it has come" and they additionally say "and we don't give it an interpretation that goes against its apparent [wording]" - which is that which you "Salafis" love to misunderstand! - and they're not intending here to affirm the literal lexical meaning (as they themselves clearly clarify!), rather they're intending that it shouldn't be taken figuratively and that it has a reality, but that it's beyond our comprehension or imagination.

            Now compare this with the Ash'ari position: They also believe in the divine descent and say "pass it one as it has come", but they also say "but the literal meaning is definitely not meant" and they also say "in accordance to the language and the context it could be the descent of the divine mercy". So for them it has also a reality, but they include understanding it as figurative among the options - alongside with what the Hanabila said - and this because the Arabic language and the context makes this possible.

            So the actual and real difference between the Ash'aris and Hanbalis is regarding possibility of [figurative] interpretation, while they both don't believe in affirming the literal lexical meaning! The "Salafis" however believe in the literal lexical meaning and therefore oppose both of them!
            If you look into the words of the Hanabila you'll never see them criticizing for Tafwidh - because it's their very own Madhhab also! - but rather only for Ta`wil.
            The Hafidh Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH) is obviously an exception to this, because he has a problem with Tafwidh also.

            As for the actual Jahmiyya and Mu'tazila, then they don't even believe that these narrations are authentic and reject them outright without even looking into their Sanad and this unacceptable. For them the Creator can not be described with attributes in the very first place.
            So trying hardly to put Ash'aris together with Jahmis and their likes is dishonesty or ignorance or both!
            Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 24-01-21, 08:45 PM.

            Comment


            • A brother stated:

              Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
              I can't lie to me as a layman thisis a complex and complicated subject if being honest, I want to ask and know what is the safest opinion on this matter and what's classed as the middle path?
              This was my response:

              Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

              Surat al-Ikhlas, my brother!
              If you believe in it, then you're on the safe side regarding the Tawhid of Allah ta'ala.

              Our noble Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - used to regard it as equal to one-third of the Qur`an and this should be enough for you to understand its importance!
              Now look at the response of AbuNajm :

              Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

              The "safest" opinion on this matter is NOT to believe as the Ash'aris and deviants believe about Allah AWJ. It is their objective to confuse and bewilder laypeople with terms like "accidents" and "limbs". They intentionally indulge in philosophical terms and paint the true beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah as "anthropomorphism" and "Disbelief".

              Allah AWJ most certainly has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms, among other Perfect Attributes. And He AWJ laughs, gets angry, descends, is on His Throne, hears, sees, loves, hates, and is above creation, just as any layperson would understand those statements.

              There is no need to explain them except to a person keen on negating them or falsely interpreting them as something other than what they apparently mean.

              What gets complicated is responding to Ash'aris and Jahmis using their arguments and terms. That is why only scholars of Aqidah specialized in refutations and responses to such people. That is why many scholars do not allow laypeople to even listen to such discussions until they're well-established in the foundational principles and beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah first.

              Note the big difference between our replies: I told the brother to return to that which our noble Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - himself HIGHLIGHTED and that is Surat al-Ikhlas, which was sent down when the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - was asked regarding a DESCRIPTION of Allah ta'ala!
              While AbuNajm wants him to return to his OPINION of how the Creator should be described!


              Billahi 'alayk AbuNajm, did the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - ever describe Allah ta'ala in the manner you did?! If you were to ask the Sahaba - may Allah ta'ala be please with them all - would a single one of them give your description of Him subhanahu wa ta'ala or would they rather give the description highlighted by the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam)?

              If you say: But the wording of "Qadam" and "Saq" and "Asabi'" and the like have been mentioned in authentic narrations, then the answer is: This is correct, but what happened to the context? The Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - stated these words in a specific context and it's obvious in all these narrations that the intent is to establish something else as that which you think and we will implement the rules of the Arabic language upon these narrations whether you like it or not!

              So take for example the narration of Nuzul (descent): It's obvious that the point of the narration is to establish that the last third of the night is a special time where supplications are accepted and that Allah ta'ala is nearer to us in these times (and the nearness of Allah ta'ala is obviously not a physical or sensory one!).
              The point is NOT to establish a literal displacement from a higher place to a lower place as people like Harras believe nor is it to establish the genus of movements!
              And this is just one example, which quite obviously shows how far away you are from proper understanding.
              Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 24-01-21, 09:31 PM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post
                A brother asked the following:



                And this was the response of AbuNajm:



                My response:

                The one asking you is not speaking Arabic in order for you to ask him the above. This religion was sent for all humankind, so if you're unable to respond to such easy questions in a clear manner, then this is really not a good thing.
                You should also learn how you present your creed to other people. If you tell people "we believe in a real descent", then what they will understand is a movement from a higher place to a lower one! Is this what you want people to believe regarding your creed?!

                Allah ta'ala is not a material or physical being in order for his Nuzul (descent) to be physical, rather He is beyond all of His Creation - outside space and time! - such that the divine descent is also something beyond our imagination or comprehension.

                If you insist on an Arabic word, then I would say a descent that is "Hissi" (sensory) is what is intended with a physical descent and it's obviously impossible regarding the Creator to be described with this.

                Then: You say that the "Dhahir meaning of Nuzul" is intended. Do you know what the Dhahir meaning of Nuzul is? It's the literal lexical meaning, which is displacement from a higher place to a lower place and the Egyptian "Salafi" Muhammad Khalil Harras even openly affirmed this! (Many other "Salafis" don't openly affirm movement in wording, but do affirm it meaning such that in their mind the divine Nuzul is from the genus of movements! Exalted is Allah with supreme Exaltation above their false imaginations!)

                Compare this now with traditional Hanabila: They believe in the divine descent and say regarding the narration "pass it one as it has come" and they additionally say "and we don't give it an interpretation that goes against its apparent [wording]" - which is that which you "Salafis" love to misunderstand! - and they're not intending here to affirm the literal lexical meaning (as they themselves clearly clarify!), rather they're intending that it shouldn't be taken figuratively and that it has a reality, but that it's beyond our comprehension or imagination.

                Now compare this with the Ash'ari position: They also believe in the divine descent and say "pass it one as it has come", but they also say "but the literal meaning is definitely not meant" and they also say "in accordance to the language and the context it could be the descent of the divine mercy". So for them it has also a reality, but they include understanding it as figurative among the options - alongside with what the Hanabila said - and this because the Arabic language and the context makes this possible.

                So the actual and real difference between the Ash'aris and Hanbalis is regarding possibility of [figurative] interpretation, while they both don't believe in affirming the literal lexical meaning! The "Salafis" however believe in the literal lexical meaning and therefore oppose both of them!
                If you look into the words of the Hanabila you'll never see them criticizing for Tafwidh - because it's their very own Madhhab also! - but rather only for Ta`wil.
                The Hafidh Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH) is obviously an exception to this, because he has a problem with Tafwidh also.

                As for the actual Jahmiyya and Mu'tazila, then they don't even believe that these narrations are authentic and reject them outright without even looking into their Sanad and this unacceptable. For them the Creator can not be described with attributes in the very first place.
                So trying hardly to put Ash'aris together with Jahmis and their likes is dishonesty or ignorance or both!
                i cant lie i did think why should language be a barrier when discussing the characteristics and attributes of the Almighty Allah swt?

                if a non muslim non arab came in seek of knowledge asking what the islamic belief is about the creator and what his characteristics and attributes are you going to ask him to word his question in arabic specficially? i mean seriously?

                AbuNajm also thing i dont understand is if in Surah ikhlas 112:4
                it clearly states the following 'And there is none comparable to Him.โ€

                how can you even say for example Allah has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms etc if Allah swt clrearly states inthe Qur'an that 'there is none comparable to Him'?

                Comment


                • Another brother stated:

                  Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                  Ibn Uthaymeen said, โ€œTo negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.โ€ (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah. pg 144-145 Darussalam, Authorized by the Charitable Foundation of Shaikh Muhammad bin Salih Al Uthaimin)

                  If the translation is incorrect, how would you translate it?
                  Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                  It is definitely a "good" translation, however, I would have worded it differently and the meaning would have been slightly different, though not significantly.

                  The translator incorrectly translates "yashtariku" as "resemblance". That is definitely a mistake since the verb in Arabic denotes "sharing" and not "resemblance". The translator should not have used the same word in English for both "Tashbih" and "Ishtirak" when they clearly indicate separate ideas in the context.

                  That said- the above is also the opinion of 'Ibn Taymiyyah and not just 'Ibn Uthaymeen.

                  In practice, this is also the path of the Prophets, alayhum us-Salaam, al-Imam Ahmad, and the other Imams of Aqidah of Ahl as-Sunnah.

                  ...
                  Yes, Ibn 'Uthaymin and Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 AH) [at least in some of his works] believed in a common degree (Qadar Mushtarak) between the Creator and the creation, which exists in their mind [only].
                  But to ascribe this to the Prophets - peace be upon them - is not accepted in any way or form!
                  Rather it's from the foundations of Tawhid to differentiate between the Creator jalla jalaluhu and the creation as established from Surat al-Ikhlas. The only similarity that is affirmed is in NAMING and not in the REALITY by agreement of the Asha'ira and traditional Hanabila!


                  Then: Is being corporeal - meaning to be 3-dimensional or say having a height, width and breadth - included in this common degree?! (Answer for God's sake!)
                  Yes?
                  No?
                  Maybe?



                  As for Ibn 'Uthaymin, then it is at least possible for it to be included in his mind, which is why he didn't just reject al-'Allama al-Saffarini's (d. 1188 AH) statement regarding declaring Allah ta'ala transcendent from being a body as a wording, but even in meaning as already shown here:

                  "Ibn 'Uthaymin's claim: al-Saffarini is wrong and declaring God to be transcendent from being a body is not allowed"

                  (This is the actual statement of the 'Allama al-Saffarini [al-Hanbali al-Athari] for those interested: "'Allama al-Saffarini: Allah is not composed of parts and the three dimensions do not apply to Him")

                  This means that for Ibn 'Uthaymin it's not correct to regard the Creator transcendent from being a 3-dimensional being!

                  Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                  AbuNajm also thing i dont understand is if in Surah ikhlas 112:4
                  it clearly states the following 'And there is none comparable to Him.โ€
                  Note that when this Sura was revealed when a DESCRIPTION of Allah ta'ala was asked and when the Prophet - sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam - has HIGHLIGHTED this Sura and its importance, then it means that believing that nothing is equal or comparable or like or similar to Him is from the very foundation of Tawhid and not just "a general statement that can be a scalpel in the hands of an expert surgeon or a button connected to a sledgehammer for a person with the care of a 2-year old in a glass warehouse" as was claimed by AbuNajm.
                  Last edited by Abu Sulayman; 24-01-21, 10:20 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Let's put the puzzles together regarding Ibn 'Uthaymin: He believes that there is a common degree (Qadar mushtarak) between the Creator and the creation and that is why he says that Tashbih (ascribing similarity) should not be rejected completely.


                    So is there a sort of similarity between the Creator and the creation [other than in naming] according to him?:

                    Ibn 'Uthaymin states:

                    ูุฅุฐุง ู‚ู„ุช: ู…ุง ู‡ูŠ ุงู„ุตูˆุฑุฉ ุงู„ุชูŠ ุชูƒูˆู† ู„ู„ู‡ ูˆูŠูƒูˆู† ุขุฏู… ุนู„ูŠู‡ุงุŸ ู‚ู„ู†ุง: ุฅู† ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุนุฒ ูˆุฌู„ ู„ู‡ ูˆุฌู‡, ูˆู„ู‡ ุนูŠู†, ูˆู„ู‡ ูŠุฏ, ูˆู„ู‡ ุฑุฌู„ - ุนุฒ ูˆุฌู„ - ู„ูƒู† ู„ุง ูŠู„ุฒู… ู…ู† ุฃู† ุชูƒูˆู† ู‡ุฐู‡ ุงู„ุฃุดูŠุงุก ู…ู…ุงุซู„ุฉ ู„ู„ุฅู†ุณุงู†ุŒ ูู‡ู†ุงูƒ ุดูŠุก ู…ู† ุงู„ุดุจู‡ ู„ูƒู†ู‡ ู„ูŠุณ ุนู„ู‰ ุณุจูŠู„ ุงู„ู…ู…ุงุซู„ุฉุŒ ูƒู…ุง ุฃู† ุงู„ุฒู…ุฑุฉ ุงู„ุฃูˆู„ู‰ ู…ู† ุฃู‡ู„ ุงู„ุฌู†ุฉ ููŠู‡ุง ุดุจู‡ ู…ู† ุงู„ู‚ู…ุฑ ู„ูƒู† ุจุฏูˆู† ู…ู…ุงุซู„ุฉ

                    If it is asked: What is the image (Sura) that Allah and Adam are [both] upon?
                    Then we say: Allah - 'azza wa jall - has a face, an eye, a hand, a foot - 'azza wa jall -, but this does not necessitate that these [descriptions] are like that of human beings, for there is some [sort of] of similarity (!), but not upon the way of likeness (Mumathala); just like the first group from the people of paradise are similar to the moon (i.e. shining), but without likeness.

                    - end of quote -

                    A SORT OF SIMILARITY! Just like there is similarity between the shining faces of the first group to enter paradise with the shining of the moon, even if they're not completely the same!


                    So can he give us any further examples?

                    Ibn 'Uthaymin states:

                    ู†ู‚ูˆู„ ู…ุซู„ุงู‹ ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูˆู„ู… ู†ู‚ู„ ูˆุฌู‡ ูˆุฃุทู„ู‚ู†ุง ููˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ูŠูƒูˆู† ู„ุงุฆู‚ุง ู„ุฐุงุชู‡ ุฃูˆ ู„ุงุฆู‚ุง ุจุฐุงุชู‡ ุŒ ูƒู…ุง ู„ูˆ ู‚ู„ุช ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ูุฑุณ ูˆูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ู‚ุท ุงู„ู‡ุฑ ู‡ู„ ุชูู‡ู… ู…ู† ู‚ูˆู„ูƒ ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ูุฑุณ ุฃู†ู‡ ู…ุซู„ ูˆุฌู‡ ุงู„ู‡ุฑ ุŸ ุฃุจุฏุงู‹

                    We say for example "face of Allah" and we do not just say "face" in general [terms], because the face of Allah is befitting to His essence or befitting His essence.
                    Just like when you say "face of a horse" and "face of a cat": Do you understand from your statement "face of a horse" that it is like (mithl) the "face of a cat"? Never...

                    - end of quote -

                    So just like the face of a horse and the face of a cat are not completely like each other, but similar to each other we should implement this on the CREATOR, o Ibn 'Uthaymin?! (Mentioning the body parts of animals (!) while speaking regarding the divine attributes!?!?)


                    So are you saying that Wajh (literally: face) is a literal face with a 3-dimensional form so it maybe round or rectangular for example?

                    Ibn 'Uthaymin states:

                    ู†ุคู…ู† ุจุฃู† ู„ู„ู‡ ูˆุฌู‡ุง ุญู‚ูŠู‚ูŠุง ูˆู„ูƒู† ู„ูˆ ุณุฆู„ู†ุง ุนู† ูƒูŠููŠุชู‡ ุฃู…ุณุชุทูŠู„ ู‡ูˆ ุฃูˆ ู…ุณุชุฏูŠุฑ ุฃู… ู…ุฑุจุน ุฃูˆ ู…ุฏูˆุฑ ุฃูˆ ู…ุง ุฃุดุจู‡ ุฐู„ูƒ ุฃูŠุด ู†ู‚ูˆู„... ู†ู‚ูˆู„ ุงู„ู„ู‡ ุฃุนู„ู…

                    We believe that God has a real face. But if we were to be asked regarding its modality [like] whether it's rectangular or circular or square-shaped or round or what is similar to this, how do we respond [then] ?... We respond [by saying] สผGod knows bestสผ...
                    - end of quote -

                    Rectangular or circular?! Allahul musta'an! So you do not declare your Lord transcendent from this and this while He subhanahu wa ta'ala is far above what you ascribe to Him!

                    O Muslims, have you now understood what this man is saying! Put two and two together and understand what this "common degree" is! It's the very Tashbih that we have been warned of!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                      i cant lie i did think why should language be a barrier when discussing the characteristics and attributes of the Almighty Allah swt?

                      if a non muslim non arab came in seek of knowledge asking what the islamic belief is about the creator and what his characteristics and attributes are you going to ask him to word his question in arabic specficially? i mean seriously?

                      AbuNajm also thing i dont understand is if in Surah ikhlas 112:4
                      it clearly states the following 'And there is none comparable to Him.โ€

                      how can you even say for example Allah has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms etc if Allah swt clrearly states inthe Qur'an that 'there is none comparable to Him'?
                      You're asking "how can YOU say", when it's not me saying this, rather al-'Imam 'Ahmad and the A'immah of Ahl as-Sunnah in Aqidah.

                      In fact, al-'Imam 'Ahmad labeled one of the chapters of his book on Aqidah:
                      ุงุนุชู…ุงุฏ ุงู„ุฌู‡ู… ุนู„ู‰ ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุขูŠุงุช ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุชุดุงุจู‡
                      "The Reliance of al-Jahm on Three Verses from the Mutashaabih"

                      And wouldn't you know that the verse: {And there is nothing like Him}[ash-Shuraa: 11] is among those three verses...

                      The verse you're asking about is from the Mutashaabihaat and the Jahmis and especially modern-day Ash'aris use that verse to negate the Attributes of Allah AWJ by asking the same question you're asking and answering it with falsehood.

                      I don't expect you to know the difference of opinion among scholars about whether non-Muslims are allowed to learn the Quran, Fiqh, Ahadith, etc. including the Arabic language. So, there's no point responding to your objections in the form of questions about things you don't know.

                      It's clear to me you're hear to argue without knowing the first thing about Aqidah as an Islamic science and its principles, much less the heretical sects and the traps they have become expert at setting for laypeople like you.

                      I warned you.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by BintFulaan View Post

                        I find it a bit ironic it's always the ones in the West or non Middle Eastern countries trying to lecture us about what's happening over here and how we should respond to these issues. Doesn't surprise me in the least it's mostly them promoting these detrimental ideologies since they're far removed from living the consequences of it all..
                        Who's "lecturing" who? Where did I comment in this thread about "what's happening over here and how we should respond"?

                        If you could direct me to a post I've made in this thread, or any thread in the last few years, that would be helpful. I don't know what you're being triggered by so that you respond to my posts in this fashion.

                        Some muppets have been bothering me about groups they're obsessed with, but I haven't responded. Is that your problem?

                        And in case you didn't know- the country I live in has had a higher death rate than Iraq and Syria combined almost every year since at least 2010.

                        Syria had somewhere over 1,000 deaths of civilians in 2020 where the country I live in had over 17,000 murders in the first 6 months of 2020 alone.

                        So, please spare me. You don't even medal in the suffering olympics when it comes to a lack of security and safety in Iraq and Syria compared to the country I'm in.

                        The "response" is the same for the West as it is for Syria, Iraq, and any country, with or without war and wide-spread killing- the Shari'ah of Islam.

                        Whoever is willing to put that goal ahead of all others, even if they come from 80 different countries around the world, then they have my support and sympathy. If they're killing those standing in the way of that, then it's not the fault of those trying to implement the Shari'ah, but those who are standing in the way of it.

                        There- now I've said something about it and now you can complain.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                          Who's "lecturing" who? Where did I comment in this thread about "what's happening over here and how we should respond"?

                          If you could direct me to a post I've made in this thread, or any thread in the last few years, that would be helpful. I don't know what you're being triggered by so that you respond to my posts in this fashion.

                          Some muppets have been bothering me about groups they're obsessed with, but I haven't responded. Is that your problem?

                          And in case you didn't know- the country I live in has had a higher death rate than Iraq and Syria combined almost every year since at least 2010.

                          Syria had somewhere over 1,000 deaths of civilians in 2020 where the country I live in had over 17,000 murders in the first 6 months of 2020 alone.

                          So, please spare me. You don't even medal in the suffering olympics when it comes to a lack of security and safety in Iraq and Syria compared to the country I'm in.

                          The "response" is the same for the West as it is for Syria, Iraq, and any country, with or without war and wide-spread killing- the Shari'ah of Islam.


                          Whoever is willing to put that goal ahead of all others, even if they come from 80 different countries around the world, then they have my support and sympathy. If they're killing those standing in the way of that, then it's not the fault of those trying to implement the Shari'ah, but those who are standing in the way of it.

                          There- now I've said something about it and now you can complain.
                          Allow me to set the record straight, aren't you in Mexico? When was the last time Mexico was invaded, bombed, civilians killed indiscriminately, women and girls raped senselessly and the basic infrastructure shot down to the ground, literally..not just one town or more but when did Mexico as a whole suffered a war-like crisis?

                          I will wait for your answer.



                          Forget it, I ain't waiting. It's just pathetic of you to say what you said up there. You guys have (huge) drug and trafficking problems over there and somehow that is worst than countries who were decimated and plundered due to war? What is wrong with you?

                          And BintFulan is right, the country you live in is IN the West and yet you have the cheek to compare your situation to Iraq and Syria. Unbelievable.

                          Comment


                          • Seriously, I don't understand why some of you here even bother asking Islam related questions from someone as haughty and arrogant as AbuNajm? Why do you even indulge him? I am not just talking about this particular thread, there is at least one more thread where he threw a hissy fit. He is an Arabic translator who lacks the proper manners and/or etiquette of discussing Islamic matters. You just have to see his response(s) to those who don't agree with him to know.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by AbuNajm
                              Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                              i cant lie i did think why should language be a barrier when discussing the characteristics and attributes of the Almighty Allah swt?

                              if a non muslim non arab came in seek of knowledge asking what the islamic belief is about the creator and what his characteristics and attributes are you going to ask him to word his question in arabic specficially? i mean seriously?

                              AbuNajm also thing i dont understand is if in Surah ikhlas 112:4
                              it clearly states the following 'And there is none comparable to Him.โ€

                              how can you even say for example Allah has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms etc if Allah swt clrearly states inthe Qur'an that 'there is none comparable to Him'?
                              You're asking "how can YOU say", when it's not me saying this, rather al-'Imam 'Ahmad and the A'immah of Ahl as-Sunnah in Aqidah.

                              In fact, al-'Imam 'Ahmad labeled one of the chapters of his book on Aqidah:
                              ุงุนุชู…ุงุฏ ุงู„ุฌู‡ู… ุนู„ู‰ ุซู„ุงุซุฉ ุขูŠุงุช ู…ู† ุงู„ู…ุชุดุงุจู‡
                              "The Reliance of al-Jahm on Three Verses from the Mutashaabih"

                              And wouldn't you know that the verse: {And there is nothing like Him}[ash-Shuraa: 11] is among those three verses...

                              The verse you're asking about is from the Mutashaabihaat and the Jahmis and especially modern-day Ash'aris use that verse to negate the Attributes of Allah AWJ by asking the same question you're asking and answering it with falsehood.

                              I don't expect you to know the difference of opinion among scholars about whether non-Muslims are allowed to learn the Quran, Fiqh, Ahadith, etc. including the Arabic language. So, there's no point responding to your objections in the form of questions about things you don't know.

                              It's clear to me you're hear to argue without knowing the first thing about Aqidah as an Islamic science and its principles, much less the heretical sects and the traps they have become expert at setting for laypeople like you.

                              I warned you.
                              So me asking questions is now me wanting to 'argue'?

                              Well that's the point of asking questions to gain knowledge of course isn't it?

                              I know you're not a scholar but I wanted to ask to see your view and take on this topic

                              One last question if I may in sha Allah?

                              What is your opinion on the aqidah of imam al tahawi?

                              Allah swt knows best

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by .Hajar.
                                Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                                Who's "lecturing" who? Where did I comment in this thread about "what's happening over here and how we should respond"?

                                If you could direct me to a post I've made in this thread, or any thread in the last few years, that would be helpful. I don't know what you're being triggered by so that you respond to my posts in this fashion.

                                Some muppets have been bothering me about groups they're obsessed with, but I haven't responded. Is that your problem?

                                And in case you didn't know- the country I live in has had a higher death rate than Iraq and Syria combined almost every year since at least 2010.

                                Syria had somewhere over 1,000 deaths of civilians in 2020 where the country I live in had over 17,000 murders in the first 6 months of 2020 alone.

                                So, please spare me. You don't even medal in the suffering olympics when it comes to a lack of security and safety in Iraq and Syria compared to the country I'm in.

                                The "response" is the same for the West as it is for Syria, Iraq, and any country, with or without war and wide-spread killing- the Shari'ah of Islam.


                                Whoever is willing to put that goal ahead of all others, even if they come from 80 different countries around the world, then they have my support and sympathy. If they're killing those standing in the way of that, then it's not the fault of those trying to implement the Shari'ah, but those who are standing in the way of it.

                                There- now I've said something about it and now you can complain.
                                Allow me to set the record straight, aren't you in Mexico? When was the last time Mexico was invaded, bombed, civilians killed indiscriminately, women and girls raped senselessly and the basic infrastructure shot down to the ground, literally..not just one town or more but when did Mexico as a whole suffered a war-like crisis?

                                I will wait for your answer.



                                Forget it, I ain't waiting. It's just pathetic of you to say what you said up there. You guys have (huge) drug and trafficking problems over there and somehow that is worst than countries who were decimated and plundered due to war? What is wrong with you?

                                And BintFulan is right, the country you live in is IN the West and yet you have the cheek to compare your situation to Iraq and Syria. Unbelievable.
                                Yes I agree sis what a comparison to make ๐Ÿคฆ๐Ÿคฆ๐Ÿคฆ

                                Comment

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