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Belief of Hanbalis / Atharis (past) vs "Salafis"

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  • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

    Just some days ago there was a twin suicide attack in Bagdhad and it was stated that ISIS took responsibility.
    Note that it has been 3 years since our capital has not seen an attack like this (basically since the defeat of ISIS). Now one can't say with absolute certainty that it was ISIS, but the evil style of the act is in line with that of the Da'ishis and it's no secret that the satanic organisation of ISIS believes in the permissibility of these type of attacks and would proudly and openly take responsibility of these type of attacks in the past.

    ​​​​​​I seriously hope that we don't go back to the days when not a single day would pass without these type of satanic attacks against the popoulation.
    ​​​​​
    Note that these type of attacks are also used by the criminal Americans to justify a greater presence in Iraq. That's why I have always said that this Da'ishi organisation is used by the enemies of Islam in order to reach their geo-stratetegic and political goals in our region.
    It was also AQI / ISI, which destroyed the resistance against the Americans and turned it into a secterian war where they would at the end kill anyone and everything that has a Muslim name including another SJ group, who were not dogs like them.
    And their killing of a huge number of Sunni Mashayikh and Khutaba` is common knowledge.
    ​​​
    ​​​​
    32 dead. Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'un.

    And yet you notice the western media will lose their minds and publish copious amounts of articles when some Kafir who insults the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam is killed, but they virtually don't care when 32 Muslims are murdered by Ashab ad-Dawlah.
    Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
    "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
    Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

    Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
    1/116

    Comment


    • Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

      No he doesn't. And that understanding and translation of the words of 'Ibn Uthaymeen is a clear distortion.


      All that the above confirms is that you are content taking detailed matters of Aqidah from a single translation, from a single source calling it "Salafi" and making the argument it opposes "Athari" creed.

      Is there anyone here that can do more than just "copy & paste" and make ad hominem arguments based on the interpretations of someone else?

      How you can compare the words and intended meaning of Abu Ya'laa with those of 'Ibn Uthaymeen and declare some sort of "Salafi"/"Athari" divide, is beyond me.

      This entire thread is a waste of bandwidth and server space. You clowns are full of bias, confusion, distortion, and always someone else's translation- which to do yourself is apparently is below your own presumed levels of "scholarship".
      So the people of apparent meanings (Ahlul Dhahir), don't want me to take the apparent meaning of what your scholars have said?

      Ibn Uthaymeen said, “To negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.” (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah. pg 144-145 Darussalam, Authorized by the Charitable Foundation of Shaikh Muhammad bin Salih Al Uthaimin)

      It is clear that Ibn Uthaymeen affirms tashbih, and explains what is meant by tashbih.

      Are you telling me that the apparent meaning (dhahir) of Ibn Uthaymeen statement is not intended?




      Last edited by aMuslimForLife; 23-01-21, 05:48 PM.
      My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

      Comment


      • Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

        No he doesn't. And that understanding and translation of the words of 'Ibn Uthaymeen is a clear distortion.




        All that the above confirms is that you are content taking detailed matters of Aqidah from a single translation, from a single source calling it "Salafi" and making the argument it opposes "Athari" creed.

        Is there anyone here that can do more than just "copy & paste" and make ad hominem arguments based on the interpretations of someone else?

        How you can compare the words and intended meaning of Abu Ya'laa with those of 'Ibn Uthaymeen and declare some sort of "Salafi"/"Athari" divide, is beyond me.

        This entire thread is a waste of bandwidth and server space. You clowns are full of bias, confusion, distortion, and always someone else's translation- which to do yourself is apparently is below your own presumed levels of "scholarship".

        When one of you starts translating and comprehending the quotes for himself and demonstrates an ability beyond copying & pasting someone else's translation and/or arguments, then let me know.
        Ibn Uthaymeen said, “To negate Tashbih (resemblance) in its entirety is not correct, because there are no two things among entities or attributes, except that they share something together between them. This commonality is a type of resemblance. If you, therefore, negate Tashbih absolutely, you are (by that) negating everything wherein there is a form of resemblance between the Creator and the creature. For example, existence: Both the Creator and the creature primarily share this together.” (Ibn Uthaymeen -Sharh Aqida Wasatiyyah. pg 144-145 Darussalam, Authorized by the Charitable Foundation of Shaikh Muhammad bin Salih Al Uthaimin)

        If the translation is incorrect, how would you translate it?
        My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post
          ...32 Muslims are murdered by Ashab ad-Dawlah.
          How do you know it was them?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
            How do you know it was them?
            Why are you asking?

            Are you asking how I know ISIS/Da'esh was responsible for the attack or how I linked ISIS/Da'esh to a prophecy? I have already answered both of these before. You read everyones posts as you are a moderator. I won't bother repeating for a troll of a mod who already knows the answer.
            Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
            "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
            Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

            Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
            1/116

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

              Why are you asking?

              Are you asking how I know ISIS/Da'esh was responsible for the attack or how I linked ISIS/Da'esh to a prophecy? I have already answered both of these before. You read everyones posts as you are a moderator. I won't bother repeating for a troll of a mod who already knows the answer.
              Because it's a claim without evidence. Please post the evidence for your claim.

              You must be mental if you think I read every single post.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                Because it's a claim without evidence. Please post the evidence for your claim.

                You must be mental if you think I read every single post.
                Khabar Mutawatir.

                Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan

                ...

                Not accepting what all news sources are reporting as you think they are all conspiring against you

                Go and learn about the concept of Mutawatir - you people don't accept the news sources as you think they are all conspiring, biased against you - so you accuse hundreds upon thousands of collaborating against you, even the small and independent news sources, and even Muslim reporters. You reject the concept that Mutawatir gives certainty - rather nothing gives certainty to you people.

                I can imagine a Mushrik at the time of RasulAllah - "What they all say the Moon has split? But they are all Muslims or the others amongst them are in league with the Muslims".

                Did you reflect that the reason why the news reporters are anti-Daesh is because of what they are doing, not the other way around? The white man will say, "The Muslims they fabricated reports of miracles as he isn't a prophet" but they forgot they are assuming he is not a Prophet in the first instance - just as you assume that you 'benevolent' Daesh wouldn't hurt a dhimmi fly.

                Let me guess you also believe the Earth is flat too? Do you think that the Astronauts did not land on the Moon? Perhaps lizards are controlling the world too?

                The atheist has the same mindset as you people - denialism.

                When confronted with the truth they make elaborate fabrications. They abuse reason as well - like the flat earther who writes his equations down insisting they are science. Your Madhab is the Madhab of Firaun - when Musa Alayhis Salam threw down the rod it became a snake. Firaun said, "He has performed a magic trick," Rather he cannot accept the obvious truth.

                Stop denying reality and come back down to Earth...
                Another brother also posted something informative:

                Originally posted by YahyaIbnSelam
                IS did this attack and they claimed it. So there is no reliance on fasiqs news. IS is a deviant organisation that uses takfir for political ends. They disobeyed their amir, leader of al-Qaida, and overnight made takfir on him and their former brothers in arms and faith. Retrospectively takfiring people (over past events) is a great evidence of following desires.There is no need for further inquiry in such cases.
                Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                1/116

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                  Khabar Mutawatir.



                  Another brother also posted something informative:


                  You haven't posted the evidence for your claim. I don't know if you are actually this dumb or if you think can trick me with this nonsense. Either way you're smelling more and more like a pig rat which you so far haven't denied.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                    You haven't posted the evidence for your claim. I don't know if you are actually this dumb or if you think can trick me with this nonsense. Either way you're smelling more and more like a pig rat which you so far haven't denied.
                    I shouldn't have bothered.
                    Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                    "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                    Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                    Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                    1/116

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                      I shouldn't have bothered.
                      Don't post claims if you aren't prepared to back them up. You'll only end up making yourself look stupid like you have here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                        You haven't posted the evidence for your claim. I don't know if you are actually this dumb or if you think can trick me with this nonsense. Either way you're smelling more and more like a pig rat which you so far haven't denied.
                        If it wasn't for certain facts I know about you, I'd ask you as well.
                        Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                        "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                        Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                        Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                        1/116

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Abu Sulayman View Post

                          Just some days ago there was a twin suicide attack in Bagdhad and it was stated that ISIS took responsibility.
                          Note that it has been 3 years since our capital has not seen an attack like this (basically since the defeat of ISIS). Now one can't say with absolute certainty that it was ISIS, but the evil style of the act is in line with that of the Da'ishis and it's no secret that the satanic organisation of ISIS believes in the permissibility of these type of attacks and would proudly and openly take responsibility of these type of attacks in the past.

                          ​​​​​​I seriously hope that we don't go back to the days when not a single day would pass without these type of satanic attacks against the popoulation.
                          ​​​​​
                          Note that these type of attacks are also used by the criminal Americans to justify a greater presence in Iraq. That's why I have always said that this Da'ishi organisation is used by the enemies of Islam in order to reach their geo-stratetegic and political goals in our region.
                          It was also AQI / ISI, which destroyed the resistance against the Americans and turned it into a secterian war where they would at the end kill anyone and everything that has a Muslim name including another SJ group, who were not dogs like them.
                          And their killing of a huge number of Sunni Mashayikh and Khutaba` is common knowledge.
                          ​​​
                          ​​​​
                          Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji3oon. May Allah protect and guide the Muslims. Very sad to hear.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                            If it wasn't for certain facts I know about you, I'd ask you as well.
                            Did you gather these facts from your cop friends?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by AbuNajm
                              Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                              I can't lie to me as a layman thisis a complex and complicated subject if being honest, I want to ask and know what is the safest opinion on this matter and what's classed as the middle path?
                              The "safest" opinion on this matter is NOT to believe as the Ash'aris and deviants believe about Allah AWJ. It is their objective to confuse and bewilder laypeople with terms like "accidents" and "limbs". They intentionally indulge in philosophical terms and paint the true beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah as "anthropomorphism" and "Disbelief".

                              Allah AWJ most certainly has a Face, Hands, Eyes, Shin, Feet, Speech, Legs, Forearms, Fingers, Palms, among other Perfect Attributes. And He AWJ laughs, gets angry, descends, is on His Throne, hears, sees, loves, hates, and is above creation, just as any layperson would understand those statements.

                              There is no need to explain them except to a person keen on negating them or falsely interpreting them as something other than what they apparently mean.

                              What gets complicated is responding to Ash'aris and Jahmis using their arguments and terms. That is why only scholars of Aqidah specialized in refutations and responses to such people. That is why many scholars do not allow laypeople to even listen to such discussions until they're well-established in the foundational principles and beliefs of Ahl as-Sunnah first.
                              Just curious brother do you believe that when it comes to tahajjud time the last third of the night Allah swt actually physically moves to the first heaven?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by BintFulaan
                                Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                                I can't lie to me as a layman thisis a complex and complicated subject if being honest, I want to ask and know what is the safest opinion on this matter and what's classed as the middle path?
                                Assalamu alaykum,

                                I'm a laymen just like you. And I personally believe the safest opinion is stopping where the Salaf stopped. I affirm the Attributes, without going in to the how or explaining them away. I don't say anymore than the Salaf said on this insha'Allah. We pass them on as they've come. And Allah knows best.
                                Thanks for replying

                                Suppose the confusing part is that each group claims the other is wrong and you just don't know who to believe sister

                                Allah swt knows best

                                Comment

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