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Gog and Magog, Dhul Qarnayn, their identity etc.

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  • Gog and Magog, Dhul Qarnayn, their identity etc.

    A theory regarding Yajuj and Majuj, Dhul Qarnayn and their location
    • It is not important for us to know the location or identity of Dhul Qarnayn and the people of Yajuj and Majuj.
    • Surah al-Kahf first mentions the story of the people of the cave which introduces us to the fact that Allah can make some people (the inhabitants of the cave) undiscoverable by others, and can release/ awake them when he wills.
    • The story in Surah al-Kahf relating to the two gardens show Allah may take away bounty and blessing whenever he wills. The barrier preventing the escape of Yajuj and Majuj is a blessing and he may (and will) take that away when he wills.
    • The story in Surah al-Kahf relating to Khidr teaches us about how inaccessible the Wisdom of Allah is. Rather than questioning that Wisdom we should learn to accept it.
    • Much myth and unimportant detail surrounds the people of the cave, e.g. when did they live, for how long were they in the cave, how many were in the cave etc. Furthermore, people misunderstood the story and started taking useless actions with regards to it e.g. what was done after to commemorate them etc. We are told to trust in Allah regarding details.
    • With the aforementioned five points we realise it is not so important to learn the details of who Yajuj and Majuj are or where they are. We should accept the Quranic account and any hadith as they are.
    • Nevertheless, some people insist on seeking to understand something they will likely never understand, until that day comes when they are made to understand.
    • Dhul Qarnayn may be prehistoric (pre-recorded history) or historic. Evidence from the Quran strongly suggests however that he is historic.
    • The Quran mentions the process of the formation of the barrier which includes technological innovations (melting metal etc.) which were not present in the prehistoric era.
    • So Dhul Qarnayn is likely a historic entity.
    • Dhul Qarnayn is a monotheist, a believer who has been given power in the land and the means (or course or way). Perhaps this refers to the means to travel anywhere or perhaps this means the means to achieve anything.
    • The earliest commentators of the Quran, according to Ibn Kathir, have stated that this refers to knowledge. One also, according to Ibn Kathir, states this relates to different parts and features of the Earth.
    • Alexander the Great is not Dhul Qarnayn – he is a pagan. The idea that Alexander the Great may be Dhul Qarnayn seems to mainly originate from Yusuf Ali’s tafsir (d. 1953 CE). Great scholars like Al-Sharastani apparently give little weight to any link with Alexander the Great.
    • Some scholars have stated that one of the Persian Kings may be Dhul Qarnayn and have found examples of certain Persian kings praising God or being depicted with two horns. Perhaps he is a Persian King.
    • Many early scholars however were convinced he was an a Yemenite King, like Fakhr-ad-Din al Razi and al-Ayni.
    • There are pre-Islamic poems of Dhul Qarnayn and the Jews were aware of him.
    • The name Dhul Qarnayn also is similar to other Yemenite Kings e.g. “Dhul-Nawas”
    • Therefore, it is quite likely that Dhul Qarnayn is a Yemenite king.
    • There are two main details we can use to figure out where Yajuj and Majuj are.
    • The first is that they can barely speak a word i.e. Dhul Qarnayn struggled to communicate with them – perhaps the nearby people had languages that were mutually unintelligible.
    • The second is that they are located in a valley (where two barriers meet).
    • There is only one group of people on the face of the planet today that can be identified with “they can scarcely speak a word”.
    • The Sentinelese, an isolated group on the North Sentinel Island, can perhaps be positively identified with those who scarcely speak a word.
    • The Sentinelese are quite hostile and, recently, quite isolated. They seem to not want anyone to come to their island (for good reason: the Sentinelese have a small gene pool and are easily susceptible to disease – but do they know that?)
    • If one looks at an elevation map of the north sentinel island they’ll notice a small cut or valley in the big mountain. A satellite picture of the Island is useless as it is covered with trees, hiding any structures (particularly relating to Sentinelese society) from sight.
    • The word Sababan means way or course. e.g. in 22:15, bisababin means rope, in 38:10, al-asbabi means the means.
    • So the word Sababan does not restrict Dhul Qarnayn to travelling by road.
    • How could the Sahaba at the time of the Prophet visit the north sentinel island? (referring to the hadith of the companion who saw and described the barrier)
    • Maps of ancient arab Indian ocean trade suggested they frequented Bengal. One route that may be dismissed by modern westerners goes through the Bay of Bengal closer to the Andaman Islands (it would be dismissed on the grounds that westerners would not think that Arabs living around the time of Eesa alayhis Salam would have the capability of travelling on the open sea away from the coast).
    • It is likely the Dhul Qarnayn as a Yemenite King visited the locale of the Andaman Islands (using the recorded trade route) and found the people complaining of Yajuj and Majuj.
    • Why are the Sentinelese so hostile? Perhaps they are aware of the fate of other Andamanese Islanders or perhaps they may be afraid of people coming to the Island and damaging the barrier.
    • In the end we do not know where Yajuj and Majuj are or who Dhul Qarnayn is and it is not important for us to know. This explanation might suffice those who are more curious but it will also highlight an important fact: It does not really help or benefit us to know where Yajuj and Majuj are.
    • NOTE: The Sentinelese Islanders are NOT Yajuj and Majuj – they do not meet the physical description and instead they perhaps meet the description of the people attacked by Yajuj and Majuj.
    Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 03-12-19, 06:58 AM.

  • #2
    Supporting Evidence:
    "The Sentinelese weave mesh baskets, and they use wooden adzes tipped with iron. Salvage crews anchored near the island in the mid-1990s described bonfires on the beach at night and the sounds of people singing. But so far, none of the Sentinelese language is known to outsiders; anthropologists usually make a point to refer to people by the name they use for themselves, but no one outside North Sentinel Island actually knows what the Sentinelese call themselves, let alone how to greet them or ask what their view of the world and their role in it really looks like.

    What we know for sure is that they don't care much for company, and they've expressed that clearly even without a common language.""
    "Very little is known about the Sentinelese. No outsider speaks their language. The population is estimated to number between 50 and 150 people, and it is unclear if the number is stable."
    On the occasions when Onge-speaking individuals were taken to the islandin order to attempt communication, they were unable to recognise any of the language spoken by the Sentinelese. (The Onge inhabit a nearby island, and their language is supposed to be similar)
    -Pandya, Vishvajit (2008) In the Forest: Visual and Material Worlds of Andamanese History (1858–2006). University Press of America. p. 362
    Satellite picture of the Island:
    Island covered in trees
    Elevation picture 1:
    Elevation Map 2 (coloured topography):
    Elevation Map 3 (Contour Lines):
    Ancient Arab trade routes 1:


    • #3
      Further evidence (apologies for small size):
      Ancient Arab trade routes 2:
      Map of location of Andaman Islands, where North Sentinel Island is located:
      Andaman Islands, Change in population:
      Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 03-12-19, 10:49 PM.


      • #4
        Also just to clarify, in my points above when I was talking about scarcely speaking a word, that relates to the people Yajuj and Majuj were attacking (go read the verses in Surah Kahf to confirm this, verses 83-98).


        • #5
          Gog and Magog are two human races and they are located somewhere in Russia.

          we know that the Russian land is extremely vast.
          There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.


          • #6
            Do the Sentinelese have a wall like magog and gog?
            Abu Malik at-Ash'ari reported:

            The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: Cleanliness is half of faith

            and al-Hamdu Lillah (all praise and gratitude is for Allah alone) fills the scale, and Subhan Allah (Glory be to Allah)

            and al-Hamdu Lillah fill up what is between the heavens and the earth, and prayer is a light,

            and charity is proof (of one's faith)

            and endurance is a brightness and the Holy Qur'an is a proof on your behalf or against you.

            All men go out early in the morning and sell themselves, thereby setting themselves free or destroying themselves.

            حَدَّثَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ مَنْصُورٍ، حَدَّثَنَا حَبَّانُ بْنُ هِلاَلٍ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبَانٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، أَنَّ زَيْدًا، حَدَّثَهُ أَنَّ أَبَا سَلاَّمٍ حَدَّثَهُ عَنْ أَبِي مَالِكٍ الأَشْعَرِيِّ، قَالَ قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ "‏ الطُّهُورُ شَطْرُ الإِيمَانِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلأُ الْمِيزَانَ ‏.‏ وَسُبْحَانَ اللَّهِ وَالْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ تَمْلآنِ - أَوْ تَمْلأُ - مَا بَيْنَ السَّمَوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَالصَّلاَةُ نُورٌ وَالصَّدَقَةُ بُرْهَانٌ وَالصَّبْرُ ضِيَاءٌ وَالْقُرْآنُ حُجَّةٌ لَكَ أَوْ عَلَيْكَ كُلُّ النَّاسِ يَغْدُو فَبَائِعٌ نَفْسَهُ فَمُعْتِقُهَا أَوْ مُوبِقُهَا ‏"‏ ‏.‏

            Reference : Sahih Muslim 223
            In-book reference : Book 2, Hadith 1
            USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 2, Hadith 432
            (deprecated numbering scheme)

            أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

            Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].

            Please take a look at my blog :


            • #7
              I'm thinking Turkey (Gobekli Tepe)...
              "Yaa Allah grant me victory, or make me die Shaheed"

              Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah.
              (surah al-anfal v.30)


              • #8
                Originally posted by Eyas Shah View Post
                Gog and Magog are two human races and they are located somewhere in Russia.

                we know that the Russian land is extremely vast.
                Do you have any evidence for that?


                • #9
                  Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                  Do the Sentinelese have a wall like magog and gog?
                  The Sentinelese? No. They are not gog and magog, they may be the people for whom the barrier was built.

                  As for any possible people (i.e. Gog and Magog) inside the island, it seems like some kind of Dam, a barrier. This prevents them also from scaling over.

                  (Am referring to the cleft visible in the elevation pictures above.)

                  Of course, it could just be a natural feature.
                  Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 08-02-20, 05:37 PM.


                  • #10
                    This all being said, you'll note that the above trade routes pass through Uzbekistan/Kyrgyztan and it seems a large snow covered metal barrier type formation was discovered there. Perhaps that is the barrier.


                    My only problems with the above are that there seems to be no people in the area (where did the people who could scarcely speak go?) and also as the barrier is covered by snow, even up close one cannot describe it as striped, unless it wasn't like that at the time of the Sahabah.

                    Overall, we should be content with the fact that even if we know where it is, that doesn't benefit us.
                    Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 08-02-20, 06:56 PM.


                    • #11
                      Co-ords of the above: 41°55'17.3"N 70°48'23.2"E

                      Area Name: Ugam-Chatkal National Park
                      Last edited by Muhammad Hasan; 08-02-20, 06:55 PM.


                      • #12
                        Original video in Arabic, for those who'd prefer to hear the original (without English commentary):