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Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?

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  • Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?

    And if so, nations of uneducated people have no "backbone"?

    So for example many Muslim nations are then full of uneducated people? That doesn't sound right.

  • #2
    Re: Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?

    Originally posted by Morose View Post
    And if so, nations of uneducated people have no "backbone"?

    So for example many Muslim nations are then full of uneducated people? That doesn't sound right.
    From the secular perspective, yes.

    Fromm an islamic perspective, it's religious education and complete belief and trust in Allah.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?

      Originally posted by Morose View Post
      And if so, nations of uneducated people have no "backbone"?
      So for example many Muslim nations are then full of uneducated people? That doesn't sound right.
      Islam advocates knowledge a lot. *But what kind of knowledge. The secular one or the Islamic one. What philosophy and aim is behind this knowledge. Someone may be an engineer but there should be a difference between a Muslim engineer and a secular engineer. There should be a difference between a secular architecture and an Islamic architecture and so on ......

      Knowledge is one of the most powerful tools and signs for a civilization and Islamic civilization can never revive without knowledge and science, the knowledge and the science which is overshadowed by the atmosphere of Islam not the secular ones. This needs stable governments, money, infrastructures and ........

      For this the Muslim countries are forced to lag behind. As an example thousands of scientists were assassinated in Iraq. From one side the Muslim countries should be pushed behind and from the other side the secular western culture, lifestyle, philosophy and knowledge should be imposed on them.

      But I think the materialistic and secular theories are about to collapse, as an example is the economy. The world's economy is in a crisis and it seems the secular and materialistic theories have no solution for it ! except warmongering and the usual inhuman and expired methods.

      The American dream and the American heaven is about to die.
      Note: I am a shia.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?

        yes. Even inportant in basic farming and food production.

        Comment


        • #5
          Uneducated* people are more likely to: stray away from the religion, ignore pandemics like the current one and risk other lives, believe in superstition, go to fortunetellers, practice magic, enforce child labor and deprive future generations of education (leads to an increasingly uneducated population), go to quack doctors etc. And this is just what I thought off the top of my head.

          So yeah, education could be considered the backbone of a nation.

          *where education is religious as well as basic scientific knowledge.
          "When you want to cry, laugh.
          If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

          Comment


          • #6
            Education has different meanings

            Some of the most ignorant people in the world are "educated"
            The various sects and divisions in Islam have been created by the "educated"
            Today, Scientists are seen as the most educated, but they teach evolution and atheism

            On the other hand, we are always taught that knowledge is power
            the masses are misled because they are uneducated
            jobs and careers are based upon education

            So are we talking education or knowledge, are we talking Truth or just mere information

            Allah says in quran, the people in hellfire will say, If we had listened or used our intelligence we would not be in hellfire
            .لا نريد زعيما يخاف البيت الإبيض
            نريد زعيما يخاف الواحد الأحد
            دولة الإسلامية باقية





            Comment


            • #7
              The Prophet (saw) was an unlettered/illiterate Prophet and yet he is the source of the best knowledge among mankind.

              I can't imagine that Afghanistan had a great education system considering how much infrastructure was destroyed during constant wars then on top of that the Taliban prevented girls from going to school, yet (in spire of all its flaws) Afghanistan is called the graveyard of empires and to this day even the superpowers couldn't control it. An exceptional level of bravery seems to come from there.

              I say this as someone who highly values education and the importance of being well informed. If I had kids, I'd want them to study well and inspire a love of learning, but at the same time I'm wary of the so called "best" educational institutions, their evil ideological foundations and the havoc they've wrought. How many heads of state studied at places like Oxford? Benazir Bhutto for example? Boris Johnson went to Eton. Then there's the elitist "English schools" in the Muslim lands, some of which prevent girls from wearing headscarves, some of which force Muslim children to attend mass, some of which forcibly prevent children and staff from speaking their native languages. This is all to force that enslaved colonised mindset on them and we're better off without such places. Look at Cecil Rhodes and the intentions behind the Rhodes scholarship: to bring educated people from the developing world to study at Oxford, colonise their minds and become the next government ministers or prime ministers of their homelands like colonised mindset of monkey see monkey do- a pale imitation of an already evil ideology.
              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

              Comment


              • #8
                Can't education just be education? Like you learn science, math's, biology, triginometry, Algebra. Why does it have to be an agenda behind education? Like colonialism or a certain western ideology?

                Why cant education just be education, learn knowledge and better yourself in the process.
                'If you are grateful, I will surely increase you [in favor]'

                Surah Ibrahim (14:7)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Morose View Post
                  And if so, nations of uneducated people have no "backbone"?

                  So for example many Muslim nations are then full of uneducated people? That doesn't sound right.
                  So?
                  The prophet was muslim. He could not read and write BUT that does not make him uneducated. He, for me, is my teacher and father, the one whom allah (My king) taught spiritually and religously and not the other ways etc.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ALAS View Post
                    Re: Is education really the "backbone" of a "nation"?


                    Islam advocates knowledge a lot. *But what kind of knowledge. The secular one or the Islamic one. What philosophy and aim is behind this knowledge. Someone may be an engineer but there should be a difference between a Muslim engineer and a secular engineer. There should be a difference between a secular architecture and an Islamic architecture and so on ......

                    Knowledge is one of the most powerful tools and signs for a civilization and Islamic civilization can never revive without knowledge and science, the knowledge and the science which is overshadowed by the atmosphere of Islam not the secular ones. This needs stable governments, money, infrastructures and ........

                    For this the Muslim countries are forced to lag behind. As an example thousands of scientists were assassinated in Iraq. From one side the Muslim countries should be pushed behind and from the other side the secular western culture, lifestyle, philosophy and knowledge should be imposed on them.

                    But I think the materialistic and secular theories are about to collapse, as an example is the economy. The world's economy is in a crisis and it seems the secular and materialistic theories have no solution for it ! except warmongering and the usual inhuman and expired methods.

                    The American dream and the American heaven is about to die.
                    There is some irony in that the entire distinction between "secular" and "religious" is a secular distinction in the first place. This is how endemic western thought is in us. We no longer conceive things in an Islamic paradigm, we merely pander to a western paradigm. I find myself doing this too often so I am not one to judge.

                    I agree with you assessment on the economy. I hope the brothers and sisters have a small amount of wealth invested in gold and silver. (By the way, fiqh wise, one should not buy gold and silver online unless you buy it for immediate storage in a vault as you break the rule of spot transactions on currency.)


                    Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                    Uneducated* people are more likely to: stray away from the religion, ignore pandemics like the current one and risk other lives, believe in superstition, go to fortunetellers, practice magic, enforce child labor and deprive future generations of education (leads to an increasingly uneducated population), go to quack doctors etc. And this is just what I thought off the top of my head.

                    So yeah, education could be considered the backbone of a nation.

                    *where education is religious as well as basic scientific knowledge.
                    I agree and I think it is important that we actually take action on this in our own lives. I'm sure we all have young family members around us whose education we should take an interest in. It might seem a bit weird to take an interest in your cousin's sons education, but ultimately more attention is always useful for picking up gaps in knowledge (whether related to basic fiqh etc.) As a child I found myself lacking in the basics but being taught above that. Children do not like admitting such gaps in knowledge to their parents, or others for that matter, so perhaps one should go over basics frequently with children when one gets the chance.

                    I would agree with your saying that education is the backbone of a nation, and reflect on the Prophet Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam's freeing of prisoners if they could teach ten Muslims to read and write.


                    Originally posted by Morose View Post
                    And if so, nations of uneducated people have no "backbone"?

                    So for example many Muslim nations are then full of uneducated people? That doesn't sound right.
                    "Uneducated" vs "Idiot"

                    There is something that needs to be addressed here. "Uneducated" does not mean "idiot". The problem with many people is, is that they dismiss their fellow Muslims in rural parts of the Muslim world as "uneducated". Wisdom comes in many forms as the one you think uneducated is likely far superior to you in certain tasks.

                    Also one is of course assuming that such rural people do not have an education in the first place, based on presumptions on what education actually is. Is literacy the measure for education? What about oral cultures? The people in such cultures can recount entire myths, epics and legend from memory, whilst we require to write down the shopping list... Rural Bangladesh comes to mind as an example. The otherwise less 'educated' farmers teach their children Isra'iliyyat in great detail. Such historical knowledge, even if much of it is speculation etc. at times, is useful for a person to ponder higher questions of where they came from etc. Ponder that what these and other such children basically possess good knowledge of the opening chapters of Imam at-Tabari's Tarikh. Suddenly they don't sound like such idiots do they?

                    In fact I would argue that there are some basic advantages 'uneducated' people have over educated people, namely they tend to be less arrogant and more down to Earth and reality. In Kalam, one of the simplest proofs for the existance of Allah is given by a Bedouin who likened the creation to the dung of the camel - one does not need to see the camel to know it has made the dung. A simple idea, from a very simple mind, but no matter how many terms etc. one adds to such an idea, one can not mimic the beautiful, simple reality of such a proof. In it is has the ideas of contingency, origination, causation etc. but none of these terms are required. That is the beauty of the thinking of such people.

                    On the other hand the Bedouin, and other such people, are known to be quite dimwitted and so the books of fiqh are quite harsh on them, and this is rightly so. The Prophet Alayhis Salam criticises them, and Allah in the Quran says that they are the worst in disbelief and hypocrisy, and are least likely to know laws of Allah (he then goes on to state that some are believing and spend in his way - he says he will admit these people into his mercy).

                    Education

                    So we should seek to be educated at a basic level (knowing Fard al-Ayn of Islam, Iman and Ihsan), and then further education should be in trades/professions or formal knowledge.

                    Formal knowledge is divided into two. This is where we rid ourselves of secular ideas of "secular" and "religious" knowledge.

                    You have the Mukhabarat and Maqullat. The Mukhabarat are the sciences to do with the texts and reports (Naql) - Tafseer (Uloom al Quran) and Hadith (inc. usul). The bedrock of this is Nahw (grammar). Derived from these is Fiqh, Usul al-Fiqh, Seerah, Tarikh etc.

                    The Maqullat are the sciences to do with Reason or the mind (Aql) and observation (Adi). Included here are Aqeedah, Kalam, Falkiat (Astronomy), Metaphysics of Tasawwuf, Mathematics, Ulum al-Adi (The Empirical sciences e.g. Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Geology etc.) The bedrock is Mantiq (logic).

                    Most of the Usul of the Mukhabarat require the Maqullat. One will never understand why the opinion of a later Muhaddith on X ascription is favoured by e.g. Imam an-Nawawi unless he considers the rational judgements amd logic and what it means for a hadith not to be ascribed by an earlier Muhadithin. Fiqh is particularly in need of pretty much all of the Maqullat at some stage. Tafseer of some verses of the Quran becomes clearer when one has learnt Kalam (e.g. when Allah asks the people of understanding to reflect on the signs such as the ships in the oceans etc. Or why Ibrahim Alayhis Salam immediately ignores the Sun, Moon etc. being divine when he notices they dissappear).

                    One can also argue that the Maqullat benefit immensely from the Mukhabarat as the Mukhabarat act as a guide (or cheat sheet) to the sciences of the Maqullat. In Aql, one is given advanced arguments by Quranic study e.g. "Leibnits rule of indiscenibles", logical arguments of all forms being employed throughout e.g. "reductatio ad absurdam" etc. Of course in Aqeedah the Quran is the primary source for beliefs on Nubuwwat and Samiyyat. In Adi, the Quran and Sunnah do make certain claims and these claims can be used to guide one to further study (e.g. the Prophet Alayhis Salam's description that it will be "as if" Allah told the sun to rise from the west, in a wording found in Bukhari and the only wording brought by Imam at-Tirmidhi), living things being created from water etc.

                    There are then certain humanities which are rightfully in the domain of both Maqullat and Mukhabarat e.g. Siyasah (which today we might refer to as Politics), Economics etc. One notes that the Ottoman political-military bureacracy were required to study a certain amount of both the Mukharabat and the Maqullat (studying Tafseer, History, Falsafa, Mathematics etc.) It is unfortunate however that they restricted themselves to certain texts and were woefully lacking in certain areas, which caused the court historians to mischaracterise history, and thus adopt the wrong current policy.

                    Do I think every Muslim child needs an education in the Mukhabarat and Maqullat? The answer here is no.

                    One only requires an education in Fard al-Ayn. Beyond this they should be educated in their own practical vocations. If they then want to seek further knowledge in their spare time there should be avenues for this and this should be strongly encouraged. But there should be a dedicated scholarly/bureacratic/scientific class which is well educated in both the Mukhabarat and the Maqullat. This is a teaching of Allah in the Quran - that we have certain specialised groups of people. This is also the fundamental trait of higher civilisation in general and was the case for the Prophet Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam's time and the time of the Sahabah.

                    Education Problems of the Muslims (in both the west and Muslim lands)

                    Our problems are as follows:
                    1. We don't even know the Fard al-Ayn properly. As I heard a Shaykh say that when he asked a layperson what the farid in Ghusl are, he got the reply: "Hot water, towel and soap" This means some of us go our entire lives not knowing how to pray properly, being too embarassed to ask, and many will stop fard duties altogether due to this.
                    2. Our Islamic scholars focus now only on the Mukhabarat and some of them don't even learn these properly. I am a supporter of Taqlid, but not knowing the evidences for your fiqh positions is ridiculous. Not knowing about the Maqullat makes scholars override the previously more enlightened view of the scholars of the past on something. It also leads to a dismissive attitude that drives the youngsters with questions away.
                    3. We have a new class of "scientist" influenced by the western idea that the religious scholar keeps to "religion" and a dedicated secular bunch deal with the sciences. This ends in catastrophe as we get "scientists" who reject core Islamic beliefs or advocate hadith rejection quite simply because they have never studied Kalam or actually studied the sciences of Hadith, not knowing about details such as Tarjih. Thus this group focuses on what we call the Maqullat but fail intellectually on that category too. Any scientist who rejects miracles is a textbook case of this.
                    4. Our youth raised in the west or even in some western settings in Muslim countries struggle with subjective moral views e.g. "Polygyny is wrong", and thus try and reform the religion with their 'enlightened' minds.
                    5. A certain group of bedouins have started funding scholars, printing and translating books etc. which leads to dilution and corruption of the faith, and a new group of ignorant but extremely zealous youngsters who feel comfortable criticising even the Sahabah! Moreover it is in their theological interests to maintain the secular division of knowledge. Some of their scholars are so ignorant of the Maqullat that they start saying things that would make the scholars like al-Qurtubi furious e.g. "The Earth is flat" How far we have come from the days of al-Biruni and Ali Qushji... Moreover these scholars depraise spirituality, saying Tasawwuf, something the Salaf talked about, as completely "Bid'ah". How far we have come from the days of Imam al-Junayd and Abdul Qadir Jilani...
                    6. In reaction to this group of bedouins, we have the opposite - a group of angered mystics and westernised Arabs (you can guess the country), who start advocating the doctrines of the Mu'tazila, extreme esoteric beliefs etc. which only help to prove the claims of the ignorant. Such modernists start criticising fundamental rules in fiqh, calling for a review of the Apostasy law, making creative new "Ijithad" especially in the political scene claiming kufr institutions are akin to original islamic ones. And of course this group is replete with hadith rejecters, those that believe in monism (which is kufr) and people who think the Falasifa such as Ibn Sina were enlightened etc.
                    7. The people of knowledge are dying it and have fewer and fewer students as parents push only their failures into studying the din (sad but true).
                    Summary

                    Reflect on this: 800 years ago the common people of Damascus and Baghdad would get embroiled in complicated theological and fiqhi disputes that the commen layman today would not even dream of understanding. I am not saying it was good for certain urban fitan of the past to take place - I am saying it is indicative of the level of education. The people of that time had a strong knowledge of these issues. As I have heard one scholar remark, the scholars of today have the knowledge of the laymen of a millenia ago.

                    Fundamentally a western system of education has been imposed on us wherever we are, whether in the western world or the muslim world, and that western system segregates and dilutes the Mukhabarat and the Maqullat. We need to throw away such a system, throw away secular terminology like "secular" and "religious" in the categorisation of knowledge and educate ourselves in the fundamentals of Islam.

                    Our scholarly class is there to answer all those questions we have, so we have to be able to rely on them. Currently, many are unreliable and those that are reliable are quite literally dying out. Insha'Allah, He will send a Mujaddid who will renew and revive the scholarly tradition. Until then we must make an effort in our own lives to pay attention to the basic education of the youngsters within our social circles, especially our families.


                    Originally posted by Little_Muslimah View Post

                    So?
                    The prophet was muslim. He could not read and write BUT that does not make him uneducated. He, for me, is my teacher and father, the one whom allah (My king) taught spiritually and religously and not the other ways etc.
                    To understand the scale of his genius, consider this simple point. Most historians agree that Khalid bin Walid Radiyallahu An is one of the greatest military tacticians in human history, ranking in the top 5.

                    Our Prophet Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam tactically outdid him in Uhud (although the soldiers on the hill later disobeyed his command).

                    Why was he such a genius? His teacher was the one with knowledge without limit.


                    Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Raheem.

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