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  • #76
    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

    :clown:
    To restate the question you are avoiding:

    Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

      When I said, "Ignore what I said before" I meant that when I said, "I feel betrayed by something I've learnt recently, but nevetheless, on this issue I feel indifferent - it is a matter of Ikhtilaf." -

      I was making a comment on something else unrelated to this thread. On this matter of Taweez I am indifferent as to the two scholarly opinions.

      When I used the word feel initially I mean I am indifferent and I clarified this as you asked by saying, "Ok, I am indifferent on this matter as it is a valid difference of opinion. Ignore what I said before that." It was not a retraction it was because I was clarifying my use of the word feel as used originally to express my opinion. Both times I expressed my opinion, but since you did not like the word feel and I wanted you to answer the damn question I used am the second time to make it clear.

      Clarification over. Now you can answer the question on post 70, asked without any further comments.
      Is there something wrong with you?

      You said:
      How did you feel when discussing with that Khariji? That is how the rest of us feel when we discuss with you...
      I asked:
      ...How do you feel and who do you speak for?
      You've been rambling incoherently since.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
        I asked:
        ...How do you feel and who do you speak for?
        You've been rambling incoherently since.
        I feel frustrated as I feel I am talking to an incredibly ignorant and dimwitted person.

        I speak for most people who hate your trolling.

        Done.

        Now answer the question:

        Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

          I feel frustrated as I feel I am talking to an incredibly ignorant and dimwitted person.

          I speak for most people who hate your trolling.

          Done.

          Now answer the question:

          Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?
          most people = most users on the forum.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

            I feel frustrated as I feel I am talking to an incredibly ignorant and dimwitted person.

            I speak for most people who hate your trolling.

            Done.

            Now answer the question:

            Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?
            You routinely retract your comments (or ask for them to be ignored) yet you're frustrated and it's others who are ignorant and dimwitted? There's a reason you were called the human yo-yo.

            On to your question, which is reminiscent of dumb Shias trying (wishing) to get people to be negative and derogatory about the salaf. The answer is obviously that they would be incorrect. What a miserable and pathetic individual you are for trying to bait me into some kind of 'gotcha' plan you had.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
              You routinely retract your comments (or ask for them to be ignored) yet you're frustrated and it's others who are ignorant and dimwitted? There's a reason you were called the human yo-yo.

              On to your question, which is reminiscent of dumb Shias trying (wishing) to get people to be negative and derogatory about the salaf. The answer is obviously that they would be incorrect. What a miserable and pathetic individual you are for trying to bait me into some kind of 'gotcha' plan you had.
              Human Yo-yo/Retraction

              Routinely retract my comments? I do that when I insult people or I've misstyped something due to their being no edit function e.g. One time I said on another thread that Ibn Qudamah al-Maqdisi agreed with the opinion reported from Imam Ahmad regarding takfir on the one who leaves Salah - I didn't believe that at thetime of writing or afterwards, but when I stated something else I accidentally typed his name in.

              I tend to not post a lot of the comments I write because in many cases I evaluate it and think there's no real benefit for me myself posting such a thing.

              As for retracting or changing my views on theological matters, my views are based off of the Qur'an, Sunnah and Aql. If someone can bring clear, incontrovertible proof for something I will change my position. E.g. until recently I agreed with the Maturidi opinion on Takwin. But when reading a book detailing the various views (a commentary on the work of an Ash'ari), I evaluated my position objectively and decided to change it. This is the same for historical facts - if I learn I have the incorrect understanding of history and this can be conveyed from clear and reliable sources, then I will change my position.

              E.g. I used to think Ibn al-Salah is an Ash'ari, but the truth is, from what Imam an-Nawawi reported of him, he is an Athari. If someone can bring me clear evidence that he is an Ash'ari (e.g. he himself says he is or identifies himself with them, or holds the Ash'ari view on Allah's speech etc. then I would change my view on him).

              The reason I change my views on theological matters is that I don't do Taqlid to any scholars, I analyse things as objectively as possible and try and seek the Truth as opposed to what I want to be true (e.g. my view on X scholar may be that I want him to not be considered a deviant but I cannot hold that view as history and the Truth simply contradicts me). I don't get any pleasure out of saying X or Y scholar deviated. If I was to speak frankly then even scholars of our era who I look up to have in one or two areas small but significant errors in their views.

              E.g. Shaykh Asrar Rashid Rahimullah Alay holds the view of a previous scholar that Abu Talib was not a disbeliever. This to me is an untenable position.

              I have no issue realising that the scholars of now and the past are not infallible. Imam al-Ghazali Rahimullah Alay who I have intense respect for defending and relaying Sunni beliefs, is also the same person who made a crucial error on a certain fiqhi matter that out of respect for him I will not mention. We do not follow people in their wrong. Similarly Shaykh Mustafa Sabri Rahimullah Alay, who I also have great respect for, made a mistake when it comes to his view on Democracy - and it was Allah's Qadar that showed him how incorrect he was. This is similar to my view on another great theologian, Sa'id Nursi, a very understudied figure.

              My greatest fear has always been what Allah describes in the Qur'an and what one hears from people of all different beliefs and backgrounds - that we believe in something and follow it just bcause those who came before us held those views or just because our teacher taught us to them and we assume them to be infallible. I seperate myself from such a mindset. Although I agree that Ahlus Sunnah was the vast majority throughout history, I don't use that as a proof of who's views are correct - I use that as an incidental fact that confirms the statement of RasulAllah Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam.

              There is no Jama'ah in our Era, we just have various groups that have been formed in the past 200 or so years that all have issues, whether major or minor. What has happened to us is that almost all of our Ulama, bar a precious few, have been influenced or taught by these groups so they will all teach falsehood alongside good. People then latch onto these groups and follow them and will adhere to them in whatever they say, or if they leave such a group they will not leave following the one scholar who that group follows without reflecting on them. This is blind following.

              We let people convince us with their sweet words rather than actually thinking objectively through what they are saying or listening to what the other side says without simply looking to refute them. We care less about what the Qur'an actually says and use the Qur'an as a tool to prove the other side wrong. We don't care what the Prophet Alayhis Salam has said on an issue or if he has said one thing at one time, and this confirms what our Shuyukh have said, we will ignore all other times.

              I can tell you that if it was not for the fact that out of realisation that I (and basically everyone else in this Era) am unqualified to make Ijtihad, I quite frankly would not follow some of the fiqhi positions that I adhere to, because it seems clear to me that another school has the correct position, even according to the Usul of my own school.

              E.g. On the Issue of Sadl I am amazed there seems to be no Hanafi scholars who adopted that - Sadl of all things has incredibly strong evidence, and Qabd has incredibly questionable evidence. Despite this, I tie my hands in Salah as I respect the scholarship of the past 1400 years of the school of the Imam I pray behind, and I respect that the Mujtahid Imam's within the Maddhab and the verifiers have scrutinised such issues - but that trust is not at a level of certainty - it is only near-certain - there is reasonable doubt for me to believe this is not the case, especially as I see strong evidence against the position of the school.

              For this reason we cannot blindly trust scholarship when it comes to matters of Aqeedah, as we need the level of trust to be certain, and anyone objective knows that you will never get this from following fallible individuals, or even a group of scholars throughout history as those individuals can simply be repeating a previous incorrect opinion, assuming other opinions are wrong. This is why I myself require evidence to always be primary when it comes to these matters - something must have a clear, Qat'i text or be proved without assumption from Aql, and I myself will scrutinise any proofs, bring counter examples and try to weaken it to ensure it is a rational proof.

              Whenever I have a doubt on a position I hold - I answer that doubt. I don't accept ignoring doubts and saying "its all fine" - for me if what you believe cannot be evidences then you shouldn't believe it. I ask myself, "Would I have come to Islam if born in another religion?" For that reason I scrutinise my own religion and study the other ones, and doing so has confirmed to me that what I am upon is the truth. If we do not learn to look at what other people are saying and evaluate them we can never hope to discover the Truth.

              The Truth is One, and cannot be any other way. This is known logically. As a learned scholar says, when it comes to our fiqhi opinions we believe that we are right with the possibility of being wrong, and that the other opinions/Madhahib are wrong with the possibility of being right. Such thinking, which is due to the fact that fiqh on all levels relies on evidence that is less-than-certain and allows analogy, and intuition to be used, cannot be applied in matters of belief.

              We must ask ourselves by reflecting on the Qur'an - would we disbelieve RasulAllah Alayhis Salam if we lived in his time? Would we be like the unreflectant Pagans? That is what Allah says in the Qur'an - they did not reason - they did not question their assumptions or ever think "is it possible for me to be wrong?" and "what if I am wrong?".

              So in summary this is why you describe me as a "Human Yo-yo" - I prefer to be objective when it comes to matters of belief and value the Truth over what I want to believe or whatever sweet words have been conveyed to me. I reflect on the fact that my great grandfather, an Alim who I am ashamed to say I am his great grandson, he used to call people to the truth where he lived. A pious man, there is however one important thing about him in this - his voice when he recited the Qur'an was not beautiful. I think about that and think "How many of the local pagans and/or unpractising Muslims would simply not listen to him due to his voice?"

              We need to ignore superficial matters and turn to Allah and make dua to him to guide us to the Truth whatever it is, and make us accept it whatever it is. We should make dua to him to reveal to us the reality of all things - this is a Prophetic dua and reminds us that we are always seekers of the Truth. We must be like Zayd bin Amr - we cannot follow the crowd or our forefathers blindly - we must test and scrutinise the crowd and our forefathers.

              And Allah is Al-Haqq, Wallahu Alam.

              Comment


              • #82
                On to your question, which is reminiscent of dumb Shias trying (wishing) to get people to be negative and derogatory about the salaf. The answer is obviously that they would be incorrect. What a miserable and pathetic individual you are for trying to bait me into some kind of 'gotcha' plan you had.
                May Allah forgive me, my intention was simply for you to admit that you can disagree with someone/some group of scholars without saying they are innovators.

                You have said they were incorrect and yet you do not say they are deviants - this is all I want you to accept on this matter - that people can hold different opinions to you in Fiqh but still be correct.

                May Allah bless you and I ask you to forgive me with regards to the comments I made against you.

                Comment


                • #83
                  tl;dr

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Why are sufis such red necks. Your hearts are filled with such hatred. The Quran preaches kindness and being gentle with one another. Instead of insulting, open the Quran?

                    My relatives are filled with sufis, but I personally do not want to be anywhere near them during discussions. Sufis are the ones dividing the ummah.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Bolt View Post

                      Did you just make Takfir here?

                      ٧٨٦/٩٢
                      المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


                      The couplet was written by Imam Ahmad Raza Khan, and it describes the condition of the Najdis perfectly.

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