Ads by Muslim Ad Network

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Taweez

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

    بیوقوف۔
    "When you want to cry, laugh.
    If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

    Comment


    • #47
      Sunni Ashrafi
      Assalamualaikum

      Hello again brother, please view these hadith:

      “Whoever wears an amulet, may Allaah not fulfil his need, and whoever wears a sea-shell, may Allaah not give him peace.”

      (Narrated by Ahmad, 16951)

      .It was narrated from ‘Uqbah ibn ‘Aamir al-Juhani that a group came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [to swear their allegiance (bay’ah) to him]. He accepted the bay’ah of nine of them but not of one of them. They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, you accepted the bay’ah of nine but not of this one.” He said, “He is wearing an amulet.” The man put his hand (in his shirt) and took it off, then he (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) accepted his bay’ah. He said, ‘Whoever wears an amulet has committed shirk.”

      (Narrated by Ahmad, 16969)
      I can understand how you might feel that the Wahhabis might declare everything as shirk, but don't you think it'd be better off if you stayed away from this particular thing in light of what the prophet pbuh has said? Imagine if the prophet was right here, and he told you that the taweez is disliked. Would you still wear it? I'm not getting into the argument of "shirk vs. non-shirk", rather we know it to be disliked in the religion, so I would think that it is better off to leave it, as whatever the prophet loved were the best things we should be doing instead as good deeds.

      "When you want to cry, laugh.
      If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Bolt View Post
        Sunni Ashrafi
        Assalamualaikum

        Hello again brother, please view these hadith:



        I can understand how you might feel that the Wahhabis might declare everything as shirk, but don't you think it'd be better off if you stayed away from this particular thing in light of what the prophet pbuh has said? Imagine if the prophet was right here, and he told you that the taweez is disliked. Would you still wear it? I'm not getting into the argument of "shirk vs. non-shirk", rather we know it to be disliked in the religion, so I would think that it is better off to leave it, as whatever the prophet loved were the best things we should be doing instead as good deeds.
        This is why I dislike it when people discuss these topics of valid fiqhi ikhtilaf. Realise that there are some Hadith like this which you can quote which seems to prohibit it and there are other Hadith e.g. the following one cited below which allow the taking of Taweez and holding them e.g. around your neck.

        (The wisdom for prohibition in the Hadith above is the Pagan belief regarding cause and effect - i.e. Natural Causation - which is indeed Shirk).

        Evidence for position permitting it

        E.g. the following Ahadith allows for Taweez:

        `Amr bin Shu`aib narrated from his father, from his grandfather, that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:

        “When one of you becomes frightened during sleep, then let him say: ‘I seek refuge in Allah’s Perfect Words from His anger, His punishment, and the evil of His creatures, from the whisperings of the Shayatin, and that they should come (A`ūdhu bikalimātillāhit-tāmmati min ghaḍabihī wa `iqābihī wa sharri `ibādih, wa min hamazātish-shayāṭīni wa an yaḥḍurūn).’ For verily, they shall not harm him.” He said: “So `Abdullah bin `Amr used to teach it to those of his children who attained maturity, and those of them who did not, he would write it on a sheet and then hang it around his neck.”

        - Jami'at Tirmidhi Hadith 3528; Imam at-Tirmidhi rates it sound with an isolated chain.
        Moreover also we see the Salaf as-Saliheen, particularly the Tabi'in who came after the Sahabah, permitting it:

        Abu ‘Ismah said: I asked Sa’id Ibnul Musayyab (rahimahullah) about (the permissibility of) ta’widh. He replied that there was nothing wrong if it was placed in a leather covering.

        - Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah Hadith 24009
        Ibn Abi Shaybah has an entire chapter on Taweez according to these Tabi'in. For more, see Musannaf Ibn Abî Shaybah Hadiths 24010 through 24018.

        By the way Ibn Abi Shaybah was a teacher of Imam Bukhari and his Hadith collection is the largest primary collection of Hadith still transmitted to this day. He writes his chapter titles reflecting his own opinions many times e.g. he writes an entire chapter refuting Imam Abu Hanifah (which is funny considering many of the Hadith attributed to him are found reliably in his work and at-Tahawi's work, outside of Kitabul Aathaar.)

        The evidences above are found in the fatwa of professional Muhaddithin who was authorised as I understand it by a great Shaykh of Hadith respected even by the 'Wahhabi's who employed him in their university - Shaykh Muhammad Awaamah (al-Hanafi al-Ash'ari).

        In fact the Irony is that one of the authorities of the 'Wahabbi's also evidences its permissibility and he quotes Imam Ahlus Sunnah Ahmed Ibn Hanbal writing Taweez - Ibnul Qayyim al-Jawziyyah...

        See Zad al-Ma’ad 4/327-329.

        So as for the Fiqhi opinion, according to the Muhaqiq of the later Hanafi school:

        “Using of Ta’wizes will not be permissible if they are written in a non-Arabic language in that its meaning is not known. They may consist of black magic, disbelief or impermissible invocations. However, if they consist of Qur’anic verses or prescribed supplications (duas), then there is nothing wrong with using them.

        - Radd al-Muhtar
        Does that mean that the Fiqhi position invalidating the wearing of Taweez is itself Invalid?

        No, it is a reasonable Ikhtilaf that depends on your methodology (Usul) in deriving fiqh from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

        E.g. some might cite the Ahadith you mention or might mention showing dignity to the Qur'an etc. in making a prohibition.

        Therefore leave these matters for the Fuqahah. What is important for you and I is that we make sure we believe Allah is the sole cause of all things. Beyond that, allow the Fuqahah to adopt their Fiqhi positions based on their methodology and legal reasoning they apply to Qur'an and Hadith, in deriving or testing legal positions.

        All of these disputes are minor in the grand scheme of things anyway - they account for maybe 20% of all disputes, about 80% we all agree on.
        Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
        "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
        Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

        Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
        1/116

        Comment


        • #49
          Wearing a taweez is a thing for some muslims but we can't deny the effects of recitation has upon us.

          Comment


          • #50
            can someone tell me if someone writes the numerical value of ayatul kursi and wear it around their neck theyre protected according to your train of thought right?
            so if theyre protected using numerical value of Qur'anic verses, can they then recite ayatul kuris as numbers or their morning and evening adhkar for protection in numerical value i.e saying number 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever the numerical numbers are?

            say i have ayatul kursi in numerical value around my neck,but why not just use ayatul kursi the way it was revealed to our nabi sallahu alayhi wa salaam?

            Comment


            • #51
              Noughts and crosses on a paper
              wrapped around your neck

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Bolt View Post
                Sunni Ashrafi
                Assalamualaikum

                Hello again brother, please view these hadith:



                I can understand how you might feel that the Wahhabis might declare everything as shirk, but don't you think it'd be better off if you stayed away from this particular thing in light of what the prophet pbuh has said? Imagine if the prophet was right here, and he told you that the taweez is disliked. Would you still wear it? I'm not getting into the argument of "shirk vs. non-shirk", rather we know it to be disliked in the religion, so I would think that it is better off to leave it, as whatever the prophet loved were the best things we should be doing instead as good deeds.
                ٧٨٦/٩٢
                المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


                "Amr ibn Shu'aib said that 'Rasoolullah صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم taught my father and grandfather a du'a which we would read before going to sleep, to protect us from fear and anguish. We told our elder children to recite this du'a before going to sleep as well. But for those children who were not yet literate, we would write it and then put it around their necks"
                [Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal vol.2; Abu Dawud, in 'Chapter of Medicine'; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under Sura al-Mu'minun, verse 97; and Qadi Shawkani, Fath al-Qadir, under the same verse]
                Abu Dawood [rah], Nasai [rah] and Al Hakim [rah] said the Isnad is SAHIH
                And Imam Tirmidhi after quoting it said: Abu Esa [rah] said the Hadith is Hasan Gharib

                In the Musannaf of Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shayba, the permissibility of hanging a ta`wiz is reported from many of the Companions and early Muslims (Salaf), including:
                Translation: It is narrated that Sa’eed bin Musayb was asked about wearing Amulets, he said: There is "No harm in doing so"

                Imam al Ata, the Faqih of Makkah said: There is no harm in hanging (ayahs of) Quran (around the neck) [Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume No. 5, Page No. 439]
                Mujahid, Abd Allah ibn `Amr, Ibn Sirin, `Abayd Allah ibn Abd Allah ibn `Umar, and others also narrated it [Musannaf, 5.439]

                Imam al-Qurtubi wrote in detail about both types of ahadith concerning ta'wiz: "The ta'wiz that are forbidden are those ta'wiz from the Time of Ignorance – (those which are satanic and contain an element of shirk." [al-Qurtubi, at-Tadhkirat, chapter on 'Ta'wiz']

                The word used in the Hadith is Tamimah, which refers to an object that is hung from the ceiling or a doorway, as the Kufaar of Quraish would do. They would often hang these objects of Sihr from the saddles of their camels and horses in the belief that they would protect them. This Sihr is what was referred to in the Hadith: من تعلق تميمة فقد اشرك, 'Whoever hangs a Tamimah has committed Shirk.' Examples of Tamimah are animal bones and strings with knots tied in them, upon which Sihr has been recited. This is not the same as Taweez, and definitely not the same as the picture of the Taweez shown by the original poster.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
                  ٧٨٦/٩٢
                  المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


                  "Amr ibn Shu'aib said that 'Rasoolullah صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم taught my father and grandfather a du'a which we would read before going to sleep, to protect us from fear and anguish. We told our elder children to recite this du'a before going to sleep as well. But for those children who were not yet literate, we would write it and then put it around their necks"
                  [Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal vol.2; Abu Dawud, in 'Chapter of Medicine'; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under Sura al-Mu'minun, verse 97; and Qadi Shawkani, Fath al-Qadir, under the same verse]
                  Abu Dawood [rah], Nasai [rah] and Al Hakim [rah] said the Isnad is SAHIH
                  And Imam Tirmidhi after quoting it said: Abu Esa [rah] said the Hadith is Hasan Gharib

                  In the Musannaf of Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shayba, the permissibility of hanging a ta`wiz is reported from many of the Companions and early Muslims (Salaf), including:
                  Translation: It is narrated that Sa’eed bin Musayb was asked about wearing Amulets, he said: There is "No harm in doing so"

                  Imam al Ata, the Faqih of Makkah said: There is no harm in hanging (ayahs of) Quran (around the neck) [Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume No. 5, Page No. 439]
                  Mujahid, Abd Allah ibn `Amr, Ibn Sirin, `Abayd Allah ibn Abd Allah ibn `Umar, and others also narrated it [Musannaf, 5.439]

                  Imam al-Qurtubi wrote in detail about both types of ahadith concerning ta'wiz: "The ta'wiz that are forbidden are those ta'wiz from the Time of Ignorance – (those which are satanic and contain an element of shirk." [al-Qurtubi, at-Tadhkirat, chapter on 'Ta'wiz']

                  The word used in the Hadith is Tamimah, which refers to an object that is hung from the ceiling or a doorway, as the Kufaar of Quraish would do. They would often hang these objects of Sihr from the saddles of their camels and horses in the belief that they would protect them. This Sihr is what was referred to in the Hadith: من تعلق تميمة فقد اشرك, 'Whoever hangs a Tamimah has committed Shirk.' Examples of Tamimah are animal bones and strings with knots tied in them, upon which Sihr has been recited. This is not the same as Taweez, and definitely not the same as the picture of the Taweez shown by the original poster.
                  this is the second time i quoted you but you didnt reply to my postr brother

                  please can you answer my question below

                  can someone tell me if someone writes the numerical value of ayatul kursi and wear it around their neck theyre protected according to your train of thought right?
                  so if theyre protected using numerical value of Qur'anic verses, can they then recite ayatul kuris as numbers or their morning and evening adhkar for protection in numerical value i.e saying number 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever the numerical numbers are?

                  say i have ayatul kursi in numerical value around my neck,but why not just use ayatul kursi the way it was revealed to our nabi sallahu alayhi wa salaam?

                  jazakAllah Khayran thanks

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    So it’s confirmed - taweez are for young children.

                    A lot of ‘grown up’ kids knocking about then...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      So it’s confirmed - taweez are for young children.

                      A lot of ‘grown up’ kids knocking about then...
                      How did you feel when discussing with that Khariji? That is how the rest of us feel when we discuss with you.

                      I make dua under that prideful and rough attitude, there is a Brother who feels remorse for his actions belittling others for a laugh and publicity.


                      Regarding Taweez being for Children, if you reject any possible Qiyas then there are other Hadith by the Tabi'un regarding this, including the one I quoted right after. Regardless this is a matter of Ikhtilaf, you are entitled to your opinion, and some of the Salaf and also those like your Shaykh, Hafiz Ibn al-Qayyim are entitled to theirs.
                      Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                      "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                      Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                      Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                      1/116

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                        How did you feel when discussing with that Khariji? That is how the rest of us feel when we discuss with you.

                        I make dua under that prideful and rough attitude, there is a Brother who feels remorse for his actions belittling others for a laugh and publicity.


                        Regarding Taweez being for Children, if you reject any possible Qiyas then there are other Hadith by the Tabi'un regarding this, including the one I quoted right after. Regardless this is a matter of Ikhtilaf, you are entitled to your opinion, and some of the Salaf and also those like your Shaykh, Hafiz Ibn al-Qayyim are entitled to theirs.
                        Nobody is entitled to anything. Anyone's opinion can be accepted or rejected.

                        How do you feel and who do you speak for?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                          Nobody is entitled to anything. Anyone's opinion can be accepted or rejected.

                          How do you feel and who do you speak for?
                          Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?

                          I feel betrayed by something I've learnt recently, but nevetheless, on this issue I feel indifferent - it is a matter of Ikhtilaf.

                          I speak only for the sincere one who is lost and wants some advice, to educate others on not declaring people deviants for holding acceptable views.
                          Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                          "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                          Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                          Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                          1/116

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                            This is why I dislike it when people discuss these topics of valid fiqhi ikhtilaf. Realise that there are some Hadith like this which you can quote which seems to prohibit it and there are other Hadith e.g. the following one cited below which allow the taking of Taweez and holding them e.g. around your neck.

                            (The wisdom for prohibition in the Hadith above is the Pagan belief regarding cause and effect - i.e. Natural Causation - which is indeed Shirk).

                            Evidence for position permitting it

                            E.g. the following Ahadith allows for Taweez:



                            Moreover also we see the Salaf as-Saliheen, particularly the Tabi'in who came after the Sahabah, permitting it:



                            Ibn Abi Shaybah has an entire chapter on Taweez according to these Tabi'in. For more, see Musannaf Ibn Abî Shaybah Hadiths 24010 through 24018.

                            By the way Ibn Abi Shaybah was a teacher of Imam Bukhari and his Hadith collection is the largest primary collection of Hadith still transmitted to this day. He writes his chapter titles reflecting his own opinions many times e.g. he writes an entire chapter refuting Imam Abu Hanifah (which is funny considering many of the Hadith attributed to him are found reliably in his work and at-Tahawi's work, outside of Kitabul Aathaar.)

                            The evidences above are found in the fatwa of professional Muhaddithin who was authorised as I understand it by a great Shaykh of Hadith respected even by the 'Wahhabi's who employed him in their university - Shaykh Muhammad Awaamah (al-Hanafi al-Ash'ari).

                            In fact the Irony is that one of the authorities of the 'Wahabbi's also evidences its permissibility and he quotes Imam Ahlus Sunnah Ahmed Ibn Hanbal writing Taweez - Ibnul Qayyim al-Jawziyyah...

                            See Zad al-Ma’ad 4/327-329.

                            So as for the Fiqhi opinion, according to the Muhaqiq of the later Hanafi school:



                            Does that mean that the Fiqhi position invalidating the wearing of Taweez is itself Invalid?

                            No, it is a reasonable Ikhtilaf that depends on your methodology (Usul) in deriving fiqh from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

                            E.g. some might cite the Ahadith you mention or might mention showing dignity to the Qur'an etc. in making a prohibition.

                            Therefore leave these matters for the Fuqahah. What is important for you and I is that we make sure we believe Allah is the sole cause of all things. Beyond that, allow the Fuqahah to adopt their Fiqhi positions based on their methodology and legal reasoning they apply to Qur'an and Hadith, in deriving or testing legal positions.

                            All of these disputes are minor in the grand scheme of things anyway - they account for maybe 20% of all disputes, about 80% we all agree on.
                            I didn't say it was prohibited, rather it is disliked. There is ikhitlaf, I know, but in such issues it is better to do what is known to be safer. There is no harm in not wearing taweez, and since the prophet disliked it I believe it is better off avoided. The Hadith you quoted is for children.

                            The Prophet (ﷺpbuh) said "Both legal and illegal things are obvious, and in between them are (suspicious) doubtful matters. So whoever forsakes those doubtful things lest he may commit a sin, will definitely avoid what is clearly illegal; and whoever indulges in these (suspicious) doubtful things bravely, is likely to commit what is clearly illegal. Sins are Allah's Hima (i.e. private pasture) and whoever pastures (his sheep) near it, is likely to get in it at any moment." (Bukhari)

                            ​​​​​​Since there's ikhtilaf you can wear taweez, but I believe it's better not to.

                            "When you want to cry, laugh.
                            If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                              Do you say that those Tabi'in were deviants on this or do you just say they simply were wrong on this?

                              I feel betrayed by something I've learnt recently, but nevetheless, on this issue I feel indifferent - it is a matter of Ikhtilaf.

                              I speak only for the sincere one who is lost and wants some advice, to educate others on not declaring people deviants for holding acceptable views.
                              You mentioned about you feel when you discuss with me... feel and discuss what with me?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post
                                ٧٨٦/٩٢
                                المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


                                "Amr ibn Shu'aib said that 'Rasoolullah صلی اللہ علیہ و سلم taught my father and grandfather a du'a which we would read before going to sleep, to protect us from fear and anguish. We told our elder children to recite this du'a before going to sleep as well. But for those children who were not yet literate, we would write it and then put it around their necks"
                                [Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal vol.2; Abu Dawud, in 'Chapter of Medicine'; Tafsir Ibn Kathir, under Sura al-Mu'minun, verse 97; and Qadi Shawkani, Fath al-Qadir, under the same verse]
                                Abu Dawood [rah], Nasai [rah] and Al Hakim [rah] said the Isnad is SAHIH
                                And Imam Tirmidhi after quoting it said: Abu Esa [rah] said the Hadith is Hasan Gharib

                                In the Musannaf of Abu Bakr ibn Abi Shayba, the permissibility of hanging a ta`wiz is reported from many of the Companions and early Muslims (Salaf), including:
                                Translation: It is narrated that Sa’eed bin Musayb was asked about wearing Amulets, he said: There is "No harm in doing so"

                                Imam al Ata, the Faqih of Makkah said: There is no harm in hanging (ayahs of) Quran (around the neck) [Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah, Volume No. 5, Page No. 439]
                                Mujahid, Abd Allah ibn `Amr, Ibn Sirin, `Abayd Allah ibn Abd Allah ibn `Umar, and others also narrated it [Musannaf, 5.439]

                                Imam al-Qurtubi wrote in detail about both types of ahadith concerning ta'wiz: "The ta'wiz that are forbidden are those ta'wiz from the Time of Ignorance – (those which are satanic and contain an element of shirk." [al-Qurtubi, at-Tadhkirat, chapter on 'Ta'wiz']

                                The word used in the Hadith is Tamimah, which refers to an object that is hung from the ceiling or a doorway, as the Kufaar of Quraish would do. They would often hang these objects of Sihr from the saddles of their camels and horses in the belief that they would protect them. This Sihr is what was referred to in the Hadith: من تعلق تميمة فقد اشرك, 'Whoever hangs a Tamimah has committed Shirk.' Examples of Tamimah are animal bones and strings with knots tied in them, upon which Sihr has been recited. This is not the same as Taweez, and definitely not the same as the picture of the Taweez shown by the original poster.
                                Please read the post right above this one
                                "When you want to cry, laugh.
                                If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                                Comment

                                Collapse

                                Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                                Working...
                                X