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  • #31
    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

    Can you report Report Reports?
    No ...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

      There is a dispute between Ulama whether it is Sihr, and some like Ibn Hajar al-Haythami say it is not. The Ulama who allow it only allow it for medical purposes.

      Numerology is the belief that a number or set of numbers causes something to happen. This comes under belief of Natural Causation and is Shirk. However, a number taweez has nothing to do with this (if you go with the opinion of the Ulama who permit it) as we do not affirm the numbers are causing anything. R

      Allah is the cause of all things, there is no cause but He, al-Qawiyy, al-Muqtadir.

      RasulAllah Salallahu Alayhi Wa Salam confirmed that all matters are subject do Allah's Qadar, and the First Camel argument was used by him to argue to prove this.

      Therefore the cause of any healing by a Tawiz is by Allah.

      Numbers written on it is incidental. If someone believes the Tawiz is itself a cause, then I have discussed this at length on another thread where I discussed free will vs determinism - see here (See under Qadariyyah). In essence it is affirmation of natural causation which entails disbelief, so such a person has left the fold of Islam. Imam al-Bukhari is reported to have written a book on this, called "the creation of the slave's actions", which is unfortunately not preserved in our current times.

      Now you may adhere to the position that a number taweez is impermissible (personally I avoid doubtful matters according to the Fatwa of the one I take fiqh rulings from according to the Hadith of Imam an-Nawawi), but saying there is no opinion apart from yours or the scholar whose explanation you watched or read is incorrect.

      It is a valid position to say it is Sihr. It is a valid position to say that such a Tawiz without harmful things upon it is not Sihr.


      if it is just Qur'an and duas why not just write down the ayats? so its made clear by the alim and clear to the patient?

      if its just Qur'an why cant these scholars who write the taweez in numbers, instead of telling the layman to write down the Qur'anic ayats down or print them off and wear that as a taweez?

      why is there so much secrecy about this numerology or as you say abjad?

      everythig in islam knowledge wise is an open boook whethewr your a muslim or even a non muslim, anyone can learn about any issues whether is fiqhi issues, whether its science of the hadith etc etc, so long as you go to the right scholars you can learn, but why cant you learn about abjad?

      brother we are talking about the Almighty Allah swt words, its like you say Kalam Allah

      my simple questions is this, who introduced the science of 'abjad' in islam?
      where did numerology come from in islam?
      did it come from the revelation?

      you cant say 786, 786, 786...........ohhh yea that means i said bismillah three times can you?

      you cant say the whole numerical code of the arabic Qur'an and say i read the whole Qur'an can you?

      although i appreciate you avoid doubtful things, which is an ademirable trait Alhamdulillah Allahumma Bareek
      but if you have the knowledge please answer my above questions jazakAllah Khayran brother

      Comment


      • #33
        Muhammad Hasan whether you belive this brother is on the same manhaj as you or not,
        if someone comes with the truth, we as believers have to believe it, islam is all about submission, whether we like it or not, which im sure youd agree bro
        anyways check it out, this is a typical taweez you see in desi housholds

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTDE...qyahAshShariah

        Comment


        • #34
          Muhammad Hasan theres a really good vid about whether its permissible to use magic against magic, ill try to find it, i did create a thread about it im so sure, just cant find it

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

            پوری زندگی بیوقوف نہ بنو
            ٧٨٦/٩٢
            المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


            بیوقوف تو وہ ہے جو گستاخان رسول کو شیخ الاسلام کہتا ہے، وہ لوگ جنہوں نے جنت البقیع اور جنت المعلا کو پست کر کہ زمین کے برابر کر دیا، اور پھر گنبد حضری کو مٹانے کی کوشش کی، ایسے خبیثوں کو تو مانتا ہے، یہ تیری بد نصیبی ہے، اور ہماری خوش نصیبی ہے کہ ہم رسول کے عاشقان ہیں. عاشقان رسول پر رحمت اور گستاخان رسول پر لعنت.

            Comment


            • #36
              Muhammad Hasan please check out this thread below

              Exposing Taweez...
              https://www.ummah.com/forum/forum/is...xposing-taweez

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post

                if it is just Qur'an and duas why not just write down the ayats? so its made clear by the alim and clear to the patient?

                if its just Qur'an why cant these scholars who write the taweez in numbers, instead of telling the layman to write down the Qur'anic ayats down or print them off and wear that as a taweez?

                why is there so much secrecy about this numerology or as you say abjad?

                everythig in islam knowledge wise is an open boook whethewr your a muslim or even a non muslim, anyone can learn about any issues whether is fiqhi issues, whether its science of the hadith etc etc, so long as you go to the right scholars you can learn, but why cant you learn about abjad?

                brother we are talking about the Almighty Allah swt words, its like you say Kalam Allah

                my simple questions is this, who introduced the science of 'abjad' in islam?
                where did numerology come from in islam?
                did it come from the revelation?

                you cant say 786, 786, 786...........ohhh yea that means i said bismillah three times can you?

                you cant say the whole numerical code of the arabic Qur'an and say i read the whole Qur'an can you?

                although i appreciate you avoid doubtful things, which is an ademirable trait Alhamdulillah Allahumma Bareek
                but if you have the knowledge please answer my above questions jazakAllah Khayran brother
                "
                if it is just Qur'an and duas why not just write down the ayats? so its made clear by the alim and clear to the patient?

                if its just Qur'an why cant these scholars who write the taweez in numbers, instead of telling the layman to write down the Qur'anic ayats down or print them off and wear that as a taweez?"

                Yes people do the top one and this is recounted in Hadith. (Second question is the first repeated).


                Why do you use the term 'Numerology' - that has nothing to do with this discussion. Numerology is a belief - it is a Kufr belief to hold.


                As for who introduced the science of 'Abjad' you mean number taweez, it is a form of medicine.

                Who introduced the use of various different plants and herbs as medicine in Islam?

                So forget penicillin, forget the use of chemical drugs etc. Right?

                If anything is not from the Sunnah we should not use it as medicine right? Where did all these other Medicines come from? Obviously we do not prohibit them wherever they came from as they heal and are beneficial. Similarly when Taweez are not Harmful and they are used so Allah may heal you, then some of the Ulama argue they are not prohibited. I mean I can't exactly negate your position as it is also a valid position (that all number Taweez are Sihr and you cannot use Sihr against Sihr), you're just being a bigot in not realising there is another position.

                As for your saying, "786" is not Bismillah, sure it isn't because it is the value the word doesn't convey the meaning to us, it conveys a numerical value which happens to be the value of the word Bismillah according to the Arabs even at the time of the Prophet Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam. If someone said the sounds of a Qur'anic verse in another language - have they recited the Qur'an?

                As for Abjad, I said that was the system of counting of the Arabs prior to the adoption of the two systems now. It is older than Islam, and Islam didn't overule it as a counting system. It was used before by the Hebrews as well.

                If you say it is all Sihr then leave it, that is a valid opinion.
                Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                1/116

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                  "
                  if it is just Qur'an and duas why not just write down the ayats? so its made clear by the alim and clear to the patient?

                  if its just Qur'an why cant these scholars who write the taweez in numbers, instead of telling the layman to write down the Qur'anic ayats down or print them off and wear that as a taweez?"

                  Yes people do the top one and this is recounted in Hadith. (Second question is the first repeated).


                  Why do you use the term 'Numerology' - that has nothing to do with this discussion. Numerology is a belief - it is a Kufr belief to hold.


                  As for who introduced the science of 'Abjad' you mean number taweez, it is a form of medicine.

                  Who introduced the use of various different plants and herbs as medicine in Islam?

                  So forget penicillin, forget the use of chemical drugs etc. Right?

                  If anything is not from the Sunnah we should not use it as medicine right? Where did all these other Medicines come from? Obviously we do not prohibit them wherever they came from as they heal and are beneficial. Similarly when Taweez are not Harmful and they are used so Allah may heal you, then some of the Ulama argue they are not prohibited. I mean I can't exactly negate your position as it is also a valid position (that all number Taweez are Sihr and you cannot use Sihr against Sihr), you're just being a bigot in not realising there is another position.

                  As for your saying, "786" is not Bismillah, sure it isn't because it is the value the word doesn't convey the meaning to us, it conveys a numerical value which happens to be the value of the word Bismillah according to the Arabs even at the time of the Prophet Alayhis Salatu Was-Salam. If someone said the sounds of a Qur'anic verse in another language - have they recited the Qur'an?

                  As for Abjad, I said that was the system of counting of the Arabs prior to the adoption of the two systems now. It is older than Islam, and Islam didn't overule it as a counting system. It was used before by the Hebrews as well.

                  If you say it is all Sihr then leave it, that is a valid opinion.
                  you say taweez is a form of medicine yea, so tell me if someone writes the numerical value of ayatul kursi and wear it around their neck theyre protected according to your train of thought right?
                  so if theyre protected using numerical value of Qur'anic verses, can they then recite ayatul kuris as numbers or their morning and evening adhkar for protection in numerical value i.e saying number 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever the numerical numbers are?

                  yea but if youre saying i have ayatul kursi in numerical value around my neck, why not jhust use ayatul kursi the way it was revealed to our nabi sallahu alayhi wa salaam?
                  i dont get it, its such a simple thing to do, why make it into something that it isnt

                  why would you have to be a scholar or a learned person to write out or print out a taweez when a layman can just print out the quran off some site like https://quran.com/ ???

                  if its not called numerology in english then what is it? lol i dont get it bro...

                  i didnt say we cant use anything that is halal to use but not a sunnah, that would be an ignorant way of thinking tbh

                  yea i respect your opinion and theres no harm in to say ill agree to disagree bro, Allah knows best

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Simply_Logical View Post
                    Muhammad Hasan whether you belive this brother is on the same manhaj as you or not,
                    if someone comes with the truth, we as believers have to believe it, islam is all about submission, whether we like it or not, which im sure youd agree bro
                    anyways check it out, this is a typical taweez you see in desi housholds

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTDE...qyahAshShariah
                    If you read what I wrote above you'd know this doesn't constitute evidence for me. According to Ibn Hajar al-Haythami's position, there are some Number Taweez that are used for healing. I did not say that Ibn Hajar says that all number taweez are beneficial - rather his Ijtihad is that only the harmful ones constitute Sihr.

                    Therefore the existance of harmful number Taweez does not disprove his fiqhi ruling. Are you a Faqih educated in Quran, Sunnah, Nahw, Ilm al-Awfaq and Usul al-Fiqh to object to his position on a fiqhi basis? No? So ignore his position and stop insisting there is one view on this.

                    Reject his position that is fine, but it is a valid position held by some Ulama.

                    I really question the Aqeedah of some of you individuals.

                    It is as if you people believe Sihr is independent of Allah.

                    Rather Sihr only happens by Allah's decree and command, there is nothing outside his command but he himself. If Sihr affects you then that is only because Allah decreed that, so do Dua to Allah and rely on him alone and it will never harm you. Al-Mu'awwidhatayn is by Allah's Sunnah that which destroys Sihr. You do not even need to rely on a Raqi if you are upon pure belief and Tawhid, and if you understand fully that Allah is the cause of all things, not having doubt of that.

                    Who is the Raqi that cures the Raqi? The Raqi never cures anyone, Allah alone helps and Allah alone cures.

                    La Ilaha Il-Allah,

                    La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billah.
                    Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                    "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                    Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                    Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                    1/116

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Muhammad Hasan View Post

                      If you read what I wrote above you'd know this doesn't constitute evidence for me. According to Ibn Hajar al-Haythami's position, there are some Number Taweez that are used for healing. I did not say that Ibn Hajar says that all number taweez are beneficial - rather his Ijtihad is that only the harmful ones constitute Sihr.

                      Therefore the existance of harmful number Taweez does not disprove his fiqhi ruling. Are you a Faqih educated in Quran, Sunnah, Nahw, Ilm al-Awfaq and Usul al-Fiqh to object to his position on a fiqhi basis? No? So ignore his position and stop insisting there is one view on this.

                      Reject his position that is fine, but it is a valid position held by some Ulama.

                      I really question the Aqeedah of some of you individuals.

                      It is as if you people believe Sihr is independent of Allah.

                      Rather Sihr only happens by Allah's decree and command, there is nothing outside his command but he himself. If Sihr affects you then that is only because Allah decreed that, so do Dua to Allah and rely on him alone and it will never harm you. Al-Mu'awwidhatayn is by Allah's Sunnah that which destroys Sihr. You do not even need to rely on a Raqi if you are upon pure belief and Tawhid, and if you understand fully that Allah is the cause of all things, not having doubt of that.

                      Who is the Raqi that cures the Raqi? The Raqi never cures anyone, Allah alone helps and Allah alone cures.

                      La Ilaha Il-Allah,

                      La Hawla Wa La Quwwata Illa Billah.
                      who are you to questtion the aqeedah of 'some' of you individuals, you dont know us personally, just merely read some posts and came up to some assumptions,
                      and who said a raqi cures you? no one has said that

                      its clear to any believer that no benefit or harm can come from no one except Allah swt

                      so no jinn, no man no raqi no matter who can benefit or harm you except Allah swt

                      also the sunnah is to do self ruqyaht too, like you said al muawwidhatayn adhkar, ayatul kursi etc etc

                      im a layman, theres no issue admitting that, im a nobody but can you at least answer these questions from my above post

                      'you say taweez is a form of medicine yea, so tell me if someone writes the numerical value of ayatul kursi and wear it around their neck theyre protected according to your train of thought right?
                      so if theyre protected using numerical value of Qur'anic verses, can they then recite ayatul kuris as numbers or their morning and evening adhkar for protection in numerical value i.e saying number 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever the numerical numbers are?

                      yea but if youre saying i have ayatul kursi in numerical value around my neck, why not jhust use ayatul kursi the way it was revealed to our nabi sallahu alayhi wa salaam?
                      i dont get it, its such a simple thing to do, why make it into something that it isnt'
                      jazakAllah Khayran thanks

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        you say taweez is a form of medicine yea, so tell me if someone writes the numerical value of ayatul kursi and wear it around their neck theyre protected according to your train of thought right?
                        so if theyre protected using numerical value of Qur'anic verses, can they then recite ayatul kuris as numbers or their morning and evening adhkar for protection in numerical value i.e saying number 1,2,3,4,5 or whatever the numerical numbers are?
                        Again its not my position, I am just defending scholarly disagreement. My position is that Allah can make anything cure if he wishes and he can make anything harm if he wishes - there is no curer nor harmer but Allah.

                        As for number taweez curing, I have not seen this myself, but some of the Ulama discuss this. Allahu Alam if it does cure.

                        The numerical value does not protect them - Allah protects them - this is what I said above, I am worried about the Aqeedah of some of you people. Why do you think something causes or harms another thing? The only one that does that is Allah. Sure you can say his Sunnah in creation is that x harms (e.g. the fire burns). But if he decides to not cause it to harm it can do so (example of Ibrahim Alayhis Salam).

                        As for reciting numerical values, no they don't count as recitation of the Qur'an - the numbers represent the values of the verses not the meaning and recitation of the verse as revealed to RasulAllah Alayhis Salam.

                        yea i respect your opinion and theres no harm in to say ill agree to disagree bro, Allah knows best
                        May Allah guide us both, there is nothing that can guide but Him.
                        Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                        "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                        Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                        Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                        1/116

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Also I reiterate that it is best to leave doubtful matters.
                          Amir ul-Muminin Sayyiduna Ali KarramAllahu Wajhah said,
                          "Mahma tasawwarta bi-balik, fallahu bi-khilaf dhalik,"
                          Whatever comes into your mind, Allah is other than that,

                          Al-Aqeedah Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (Riwayah Abu Bakr al-Khallal),
                          1/116

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            They are only seeking tawassul through these grids and patterns...!

                            It all breaks apart once you scratch the surface.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sunni Ashrafi View Post

                              ٧٨٦/٩٢
                              المستغاث الا حضرت الله تعالي الصلوٰة والسلام عليك يا رسول الله


                              سورج الٹے پاؤں پلٹے چاند اشارے سے ہو چاک
                              اندھے نجدی دیکھ لے قدرت رسول اللہ کی


                              The sun retraces its steps and the moon splits with just a gesture,
                              O the blind heretic of Najd, behold the powers of Allah’s Apostle!
                              Did you just make Takfir here?
                              "When you want to cry, laugh.
                              If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I had wish this Ashrafi dude would've stopped at "Wazaif". Now shady stuff like "taweez".
                                Stuff the prophet never wore, nor did the companions, nor did they encourage it.
                                Why is baseless stuff so widespread in desi countries.

                                “The Prophet of Allah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) disliked ten things: Yellow colouring, meaning khalooq (a perfume made from saffron), dyeing grey hair, trailing the lower garment, wearing a gold ring, throwing dice, a woman adorning herself before people who are not her mahrams, using spells (ruqyah) except with the Mu'awwidhatan, wearing amulets, coitus interruptus, and having intercourse with a woman who is breastfeeding a child; but he did not declare them to be prohibited.”

                                (Narrated by al-Nasaa’i, 50880; Abu Dawood, 4222)

                                I can see why people say it is permitted, but the prophet didn't like it, so why bother with this?
                                "When you want to cry, laugh.
                                If you're frozen in fear, you can't do anything"

                                Comment

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