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  • #76
    Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

    Anecdotal evidence of the unseen doesn't count for much. Being an expert of your own experiences isn't the same as being an expert on a topic.
    True.

    But it seems like you are belittling their experiences because they are not as knowledgeable in the field.

    With something like Possession/Black Magic, it's different for each person. No two cases are ever the same. No two treatments will be the same.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

      True.

      But it seems like you are belittling their experiences because they are not as knowledgeable in the field.

      With something like Possession/Black Magic, it's different for each person. No two cases are ever the same. No two treatments will be the same.
      Nope. I'm questioning the recourse for action and remedy.

      I feel this area is massively exploited both by some (most?) claiming to be possessed, and those claiming to be able to treat them correctly.

      There are signs that often reveal what is genuine and what isn't.

      Comment


      • #78
        Recently I had to perform an emergency Ruqyah session for someone who suffered from what seemed to be possession. I received an early morning phone call from the mother of a member of our community. She was distraught and crying saying that her son was unresponsive and convulsing. The wife informed me when I arrived that his eyes had turned red and he was not speaking coherently.

        Very sad situation as the affliction seemed to be based on Evil Eye from a member of the family. This was determined based on a "true" dream the patient had directly preceding the possession whose interpretation identified who the Evil Eye came from. Within a few seconds of hearing the dream, I knew right away what had happened and who was responsible. I did not let the brother recount any more of the dream and stopped him almost as soon as he had begun recounting it. The patient also initially presented with a very weak pulse and cold, clammy extremities.

        With me I had sweetgrass collected from southern Montana on the Crow Indian reservation as well as Maya copal incense. I burned them and used the good scent to begin changing the atmosphere in the room of the patient. I rubbed the extremities of the patient to warm him up and encourage blood circulation while making Du'a for him.

        I had the person who presented in the dream as the one who inflicted the Evil Eye perform ablution and used the left-over water on the patient as prescribed in the Sunnah. Recited over him, made Du'a for him and provided him a safe space to speak about issues with his family- a little bit of counseling.

        In addition, it turns out that the blanket he had been using to sleep under had images of a Native American trickster spirit named "kokopelli". Removed it and replaced it. Clearly not a good thing and perhaps a cause of attracting Shayateen.

        Within the 2 hour session, heartbeat returned to normal and warmth returned to the limbs and the patient was coherent and lucid.

        Recommended a few changes to the bathroom design to prevent Shayateen from mixing in the rest of the house, lifestyle changes like exercise and making regular Adh'kaar/Du'a, and of course, offered to be just a phone call away for the brother to speak to about personal issues.

        The brother was definitely a "victim". He recovered completely later that day and he has been fine ever since the Ruqyah session, al-Hamdu li-Llahi.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

          Nope. I'm questioning the recourse for action and remedy.

          I feel this area is massively exploited both by some (most?) claiming to be possessed, and those claiming to be able to treat them correctly.

          There are signs that often reveal what is genuine and what isn't.
          It is massively exploited by the Peers/Raaqis.

          What are the signs of the genuine ones?

          How are the victims exploiting the situation?

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post
            Recently I had to perform an emergency Ruqyah session for someone who suffered from what seemed to be possession. I received an early morning phone call from the mother of a member of our community. She was distraught and crying saying that her son was unresponsive and convulsing. The wife informed me when I arrived that his eyes had turned red and he was not speaking coherently.

            Very sad situation as the affliction seemed to be based on Evil Eye from a member of the family. This was determined based on a "true" dream the patient had directly preceding the possession whose interpretation identified who the Evil Eye came from. Within a few seconds of hearing the dream, I knew right away what had happened and who was responsible. I did not let the brother recount any more of the dream and stopped him almost as soon as he had begun recounting it. The patient also initially presented with a very weak pulse and cold, clammy extremities.

            With me I had sweetgrass collected from southern Montana on the Crow Indian reservation as well as Maya copal incense. I burned them and used the good scent to begin changing the atmosphere in the room of the patient. I rubbed the extremities of the patient to warm him up and encourage blood circulation while making Du'a for him.

            I had the person who presented in the dream as the one who inflicted the Evil Eye perform ablution and used the left-over water on the patient as prescribed in the Sunnah. Recited over him, made Du'a for him and provided him a safe space to speak about issues with his family- a little bit of counseling.

            In addition, it turns out that the blanket he had been using to sleep under had images of a Native American trickster spirit named "kokopelli". Removed it and replaced it. Clearly not a good thing and perhaps a cause of attracting Shayateen.

            Within the 2 hour session, heartbeat returned to normal and warmth returned to the limbs and the patient was coherent and lucid.

            Recommended a few changes to the bathroom design to prevent Shayateen from mixing in the rest of the house, lifestyle changes like exercise and making regular Adh'kaar/Du'a, and of course, offered to be just a phone call away for the brother to speak to about personal issues.

            The brother was definitely a "victim". He recovered completely later that day and he has been fine ever since the Ruqyah session, al-Hamdu li-Llahi.
            What does "sweetgrass" do?

            This seemed like a serious case.

            How can someone determine who gave them the Evil Eye? Not everyone has dreams.

            It must have been awkward for the person who gave them the Evil Eye, considering they are family.


            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

              It is massively exploited by the Peers/Raaqis.

              What are the signs of the genuine ones?

              How are the victims exploiting the situation?
              Various ways:

              Sympathy
              Being allowed to get away with stuff
              Promoting false information

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                Various ways:

                Sympathy
                Being allowed to get away with stuff
                Promoting false information
                What kind of "false information"?

                I'm only asking, since I view people with these problems as victims. Not as manipulative people, like you seem to be implying.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                  What kind of "false information"?

                  I'm only asking, since I view people with these problems as victims. Not as manipulative people, like you seem to be implying.
                  You only have to look through this forum.

                  False diagnosis
                  False remedies
                  False raaqis
                  False outrage
                  Etc

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                    What does "sweetgrass" do?
                    Smells nice.

                    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post
                    This seemed like a serious case.

                    How can someone determine who gave them the Evil Eye? Not everyone has dreams.
                    Often it's not possible. The patient is a recent convert who accepted Islam at my hands and his mother and father also accepted Islam after that. I think Allah azza wa jalla favored him with a dream so that he could tell me and I would know how to help him. Allahu A'lam

                    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post
                    It must have been awkward for the person who gave them the Evil Eye, considering they are family. [/COLOR][/FONT]
                    I didn't tell anyone the cause or source. After hearing just a few details about the dream, I knew instantly the source and cause. I did advise the patient about the family dynamic between him and his father. It's a long story, however the father is feeling supplanted by the leadership of the patient/son because of his success in the Dunya, becoming Muslim first and leading the rest of the family in that direction, and other factors.

                    The possession may have been temporary, however the problems between the father and son are ongoing and likely a source for more issues in the future without intervention/counseling, etc. Allah ul-Musta'aan.

                    This is where people need to understand that a Raaqi can often take care of immediate spiritual and physical concerns, however other professionals, like counselors, nutritionists, physicians, and arbiters are also needed.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      You only have to look through this forum.

                      False diagnosis
                      False remedies
                      False raaqis
                      False outrage
                      Etc
                      The willingness to be mysterious and ambiguous - and getting cheered for it - is probably the most frustrating thing about all this.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                        The willingness to be mysterious and ambiguous - and getting cheered for it - is probably the most frustrating thing about all this.
                        It's like you're speaking in code.

                        What befuddles you Br Abu Abdullaah?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                          It's like you're speaking in code.

                          What befuddles you Br Abu Abdullaah?
                          Eh? I said that 'they' speak in codes:

                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                          People who are proper into this stuff have a certain style when they talk to each other which can differ when they engage with 'outsiders' that don't get it.
                          So you ask someone a basic question. They get defensive and throw out random stuff and others will join in to support them. It is exactly this kind of culture that allows the dodgy stuff to develop and spread.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                            Eh? I said that 'they' speak in codes:



                            So you ask someone a basic question. They get defensive and throw out random stuff and others will join in to support them. It is exactly this kind of culture that allows the dodgy stuff to develop and spread.
                            And if we speak out or question them, we are labelled as "Wahhabi".

                            ...

                            One (trusted) Raaqi recently prescribed the following for Ruqyah water - add olbas oil, apple cider vinegar, sea salt, sidr leaves - and bathe with that.

                            I questioned his methodology, but once the possessed person used that water, it had a huge affect on the Jinn.

                            I guess things are never clear cut.



                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                              What does "sweetgrass" do?

                              This seemed like a serious case.

                              How can someone determine who gave them the Evil Eye? Not everyone has dreams.

                              It must have been awkward for the person who gave them the Evil Eye, considering they are family.

                              Evil eye from family members is very common.
                              Watch those eyes

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post

                                Evil eye from family members is very common.
                                True.

                                What's your take on this Br Zeeshan?

                                Apparently there are more cases of "Jinns" in Pakistan. I'm not sure if that is a myth by our elders though.

                                Comment

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