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  • #16
    Originally posted by Saif-Uddin View Post

    Are tou referring to Jinn afflicted individuals and 2hat exactly do you mean by showing a little "awareness" ?
    It's possible that the individual isn't 'thinking straight' during an affliction which may lead statements or actions that do not reflect their 'true' intentions. It could also trigger emotional outbursts, and we see plenty of them.

    But maybe it's not their fault?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
      Those afflicted with 'long term' problems are prone to all sorts of changes that can have detrimental effects on mood, behaviour, and thinking. Bearing this is mind, is it fair to exercise a little 'awareness' when interacting with people who have a history of suffering?
      Among the signs of a psychosis is a lack of awareness by the patient of the mental illness itself. There are several long-time, active members on this forum that appear to have some sort of psychosis or are Jinn-afflicted. It is difficult to engage them on any level without activating some kind of trigger for their issues.

      Perhaps that is because another common characteristic of people with psychoses is gravitation towards religious iconography and subjects.

      Even when exercising "awareness" in dealing with mentally ill or Jinn-afflicted individuals, very little can be done to not trigger them short of agreeing with everything they say or encouraging them in their delusions.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

        Eh?
        Post #5. There's no correlation between affliction and views on Politics.

        Agree with your OP though.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

          Post #5. There's no correlation between affliction and views on Politics.

          Agree with your OP though.
          Politics was an example but it could apply to anything really.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            Why not? Whether politics or anything else.
            This really shows your ignorance. The prophets themselves were touched with these afflictions from shaytan.
            The Prophets, peace be upon them, were not "touched" or "afflicted" by Shaytan.

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            "And remember Our slave Ayub (Job), when he invoked his lord (saying): "Verily! Shaitan (satan) has touched me with distress (by losing my health) and torment (by losing my wealth)" 38:41
            I'll never understand why people who have not studied Tafsir insist on using verses of the Quran to make or prove points. A translation of the Quran must not be used to formulate an argument in Islam.

            This Ayah is not translated properly from Arabic. The terms "massaniya ash-Shaytanu bi-Nusbin" do not mean "Shaytan has touched me with distress".

            The verb "massa bi-[Adha, Su' or Nusb]" means "to harm". It is a compound word in Arabic when the verb "massa" is combined with the preposition "bi-" and noun meaning "harm," "evil," or something similar. The verb "massa" by itself means "to touch", but not when combined with other terms.

            So, the Ayah means "Shaytan has distressed me..."

            Al-Qurtubi says that the "harm" or "distress" that Ayyub is referring to is what [Shaytan] inflicted on him of his whispers, nothing else..."

            See Tafsir al-Qurtubi 15/207. The Tafsir of al-Izz bin Abd as-Salaam says the same.

            As for the meaning of "Shaytan distressed me", then Ibn Hayyan says in his Tafsir that the reason the "distress" is attributed to Ayyub's empathy for another Believer or over the situation with his wife which was harder on him than his illness.

            Apparently, three Believers used to visit Ayyub during his trials and one of them apostatized due to whispers of Shaytan regarding whether or not Allah tries or afflicts Prophets and righteous people.

            So, it is interesting that this doubt was thrown into this argument as well.

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            Ayub wasn't ill for two or three days, it was for years. Did that make his intelligence, common sense, or knowledge any less? No of course not.
            The issue is whether the whispers of Shaytan cause "unprotected" people to act or speak inappropriately or sinfully. This does not apply to "protected" people like Prophets.

            Your understanding of the situation surrounding Ayyub, peace be upon him, is wrong. Your application of Ayyub's circumstances to those of the people on this forum is also wrong.

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            The messenger of Allah also had sihr done on him which affected him, didn't make him any less of a person or someone whose judgement should be questioned.
            Again, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was stricken with sorcery, however the only effect it had on him was that he "imagined" something. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani says in his explanation of the Hadith that the sorcery did not affect the revelation or the Prophet's body. [See Fat'h al-Bari 6/277]

            As for "unprotected" people, then whispers do affect them, to a great extent at times. Satanic whispers lead people to say incorrect things about Allah and Islam. It leads people to speak without knowledge and mislead others, just like is happening in this very thread.

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            Anyone with common sense would know that whether you take someone seriously or not should depend on their character and what they say, not what illness or test they are going through, unless they are insane in which case it would be obvious, and most people with sihr and the like are not insane.
            Satanic whispers cause people to say and do things they would not normally do. "Sanity" as measured by Islamic standards has everything to do with how heavily influenced a person is by whispers from Shaytan. "Character" is also measured by how much any given person relents and gives in to Satanic whispers.

            Seems like you're confusing western perspectives on "sanity" and "sorcery" with Islamic ones. We can feel sorry for people with whisper-related illnesses and at the same time avoid their harm and trials.

            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
            Otherwise you might as well stop taking people with diabetes or heart disease or cancer seriously as well. They're all illnesses. This is what was said about the prophet (saw) as well, the sihr that was done to him was no different than the poisoning.
            Who said that the sorcery that affected the Prophet, peace be upon him, was no different than the poisoning he suffered?

            The poisoning was entirely physical, the traces of which were visible on him until he died, peace be upon him. Whereas Ibn Hajar and other scholars clearly state that the sorcery the Prophet was stricken with was not physical or related to revelation.

            You don't belong anywhere near a discussion about Islam until you stop speaking from your own desires and random, unreferenced things you hear on the internet.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

              It's possible that the individual isn't 'thinking straight' during an affliction which may lead statements or actions that do not reflect their 'true' intentions. It could also trigger emotional outbursts, and we see plenty of them.

              But maybe it's not their fault?
              Maybe, depends on how far the Jinn affliction is,

              Not really up to tom, dick and harry to say, yay or nay,

              Somone who is well versed in Ruqya and has seen the person would be better judge of it.
              http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

              "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

              – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                The Prophets, peace be upon them, were not "touched" or "afflicted" by Shaytan.



                I'll never understand why people who have not studied Tafsir insist on using verses of the Quran to make or prove points. A translation of the Quran must not be used to formulate an argument in Islam.

                This Ayah is not translated properly from Arabic. The terms "massaniya ash-Shaytanu bi-Nusbin" do not mean "Shaytan has touched me with distress".

                The verb "massa bi-[Adha, Su' or Nusb]" means "to harm". It is a compound word in Arabic when the verb "massa" is combined with the preposition "bi-" and noun meaning "harm," "evil," or something similar. The verb "massa" by itself means "to touch", but not when combined with other terms.

                So, the Ayah means "Shaytan has distressed me..."

                Al-Qurtubi says that the "harm" or "distress" that Ayyub is referring to is what [Shaytan] inflicted on him of his whispers, nothing else..."

                See Tafsir al-Qurtubi 15/207. The Tafsir of al-Izz bin Abd as-Salaam says the same.

                As for the meaning of "Shaytan distressed me", then Ibn Hayyan says in his Tafsir that the reason the "distress" is attributed to Ayyub's empathy for another Believer or over the situation with his wife which was harder on him than his illness.

                Apparently, three Believers used to visit Ayyub during his trials and one of them apostatized due to whispers of Shaytan regarding whether or not Allah tries or afflicts Prophets and righteous people.

                So, it is interesting that this doubt was thrown into this argument as well.



                The issue is whether the whispers of Shaytan cause "unprotected" people to act or speak inappropriately or sinfully. This does not apply to "protected" people like Prophets.

                Your understanding of the situation surrounding Ayyub, peace be upon him, is wrong. Your application of Ayyub's circumstances to those of the people on this forum is also wrong.



                Again, the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was stricken with sorcery, however the only effect it had on him was that he "imagined" something. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani says in his explanation of the Hadith that the sorcery did not affect the revelation or the Prophet's body. [See Fat'h al-Bari 6/277]

                As for "unprotected" people, then whispers do affect them, to a great extent at times. Satanic whispers lead people to say incorrect things about Allah and Islam. It leads people to speak without knowledge and mislead others, just like is happening in this very thread.



                Satanic whispers cause people to say and do things they would not normally do. "Sanity" as measured by Islamic standards has everything to do with how heavily influenced a person is by whispers from Shaytan. "Character" is also measured by how much any given person relents and gives in to Satanic whispers.

                Seems like you're confusing western perspectives on "sanity" and "sorcery" with Islamic ones. We can feel sorry for people with whisper-related illnesses and at the same time avoid their harm and trials.



                Who said that the sorcery that affected the Prophet, peace be upon him, was no different than the poisoning he suffered?

                The poisoning was entirely physical, the traces of which were visible on him until he died, peace be upon him. Whereas Ibn Hajar and other scholars clearly state that the sorcery the Prophet was stricken with was not physical or related to revelation.

                You don't belong anywhere near a discussion about Islam until you stop speaking from your own desires and random, unreferenced things you hear on the internet.
                Rude and unnecessary comment at the end, anyone who is Muslim is entitled to speak to what they know, its not a fiqh debate, which you are also not qualified to debate in, tbh.

                Stop putting her down just cos u disagree with her.
                وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                  Politics was an example but it could apply to anything really.
                  The point still stands.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                    The point still stands.
                    What do you think would be the outcome if we were to look into behaviour, opinions and statements made by 'long term sufferers' of these problems?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

                      Rude and unnecessary comment at the end, anyone who is Muslim is entitled to speak to what they know, its not a fiqh debate, which you are also not qualified to debate in, tbh.

                      Stop putting her down just cos u disagree with her.
                      Clearly she doesn't "know" and that's the point of my response to her.

                      You don't appear to know the meaning of "Fiqh" for you to say "its not a fiqh debate".

                      Also, I am qualified to debate, so you're also not being honest.

                      It's only a "put-down" if the person thinks they were up in the first place. That was her mistake. Your mistake is defending her nonsense.

                      I'm beginning to think that either you and Rumaysah share the same IP address or you share the same Qareen.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Indefinable View Post

                        Post #5. There's no correlation between affliction and views on Politics.

                        Agree with your OP though.
                        Why do you think there is no correlation?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                          Clearly she doesn't "know" and that's the point of my response to her.

                          You don't appear to know the meaning of "Fiqh" for you to say "its not a fiqh debate".

                          Also, I am qualified to debate, so you're also not being honest.

                          It's only a "put-down" if the person thinks they were up in the first place. That was her mistake. Your mistake is defending her nonsense.

                          I'm beginning to think that either you and Rumaysah share the same IP address or you share the same Qareen.
                          Wow, there is no point in a response to you, with your behaviour. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the aggressive insults, and understand that no-one has to agree with your views.
                          وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                          And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                          أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                          Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                          Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                          Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post

                            Wow, there is no point in a response to you, with your behaviour. You need to get off your high horse and stop with the aggressive insults, and understand that no-one has to agree with your views.
                            Disagree all you want. The problem with your opinion is that it is based on your own incorrect, personal thoughts. And you think that is Islam.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                              What do you think would be the outcome if we were to look into behaviour, opinions and statements made by 'long term sufferers' of these problems?
                              We would find that they consistently confuse their own personal views and experiences with what is defined as an "Islamic" view of matters.

                              In some cases, their opinions and statements are actually the opposite of what Islam mandates and this is a result of the Satanic underpinnings to leading a life influenced by western perspectives and geared towards secular studies, work and family without structured Islamic education.

                              The problem with the Ummah today and the reason we are so weak in the face of our enemies and the enemies of Islam is because of the enemies we have within our communities. Throngs of Muslims who are absolutely ignorant about Islam thinking that they are in fact knowledgeable about it. They call to disobedience and misguidance while relying on translations of the Quran and Sunnah with false understandings of those texts based on their own warped senses of reality and perception.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

                                Disagree all you want. The problem with your opinion is that it is based on your own incorrect, personal thoughts. And you think that is Islam.

                                When and where did I do this? This comment isn't based on truth, at all. Its shocking to see people who claim to have knowledge behave in such an unprincipled way.

                                وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                                And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                                أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                                Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                                Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                                Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                                Comment

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