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  • Black spot reference to hadith

    Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoehoe.

    Here is a reference to hadith about the girl with the black spot in her face.

    Umm Salmah (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) saw in her house a girl who had a black spot on her face. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Treat her with protective or healing words, for she is under the effect of an evil eye.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 5407)

    حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ وَهْبِ بْنِ عَطِيَّةَ الدِّمَشْقِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ حَرْبٍ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْوَلِيدِ الزُّبَيْدِيُّ، أَخْبَرَنَا الزُّهْرِيُّ، عَنْ عُرْوَةَ بْنِ الزُّبَيْرِ، عَنْ زَيْنَبَ ابْنَةِ أَبِي سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ أُمِّ سَلَمَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم رَأَى فِي بَيْتِهَا جَارِيَةً فِي وَجْهِهَا سَفْعَةٌ فَقَالَ ‏
    "‏ اسْتَرْقُوا لَهَا، فَإِنَّ بِهَا النَّظْرَةَ ‏"‏‏.‏ وَقَالَ عُقَيْلٌ عَنِ الزُّهْرِيِّ أَخْبَرَنِي عُرْوَةُ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم‏.‏ تَابَعَهُ عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ سَالِمٍ عَنِ الزُّبَيْدِيِّ‏.‏


    The word nathra rather than ayn indicates that the evil eye was given by a jinn instead of a human.
    And Allah knows best.

    Wa salaam
    And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

  • #2
    Originally posted by european muslim View Post
    Assalamu aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatoehoe.

    Here is a reference to hadith about the girl with the black spot in her face.

    Umm Salmah (Allah be pleased with her) narrates that the Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) saw in her house a girl who had a black spot on her face. The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Treat her with protective or healing words, for she is under the effect of an evil eye.” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 5407)

    The word nathra rather than ayn indicates that the evil eye was given by a jinn instead of a human.
    And Allah knows best.

    Wa salaam
    وعليك السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Just curious- what are the references for the interpretation of the term "Saf`ah" as "black spot" and "Nazrah" as "Evil Eye" by Jinn instead of human beings?

    Did you read the Sharh for this Hadith in Fat'h al-Bari, Kashf Mishkal il-Hadith, Tarh at-Tathreeb, Sharh an-Nawawi, Umdat al-Qari, Sharh al-Qastalani, or any authoritative explanation for Hadith?

    The last part "Treat her with protective or healing words, for she is under the effect of an evil eye," is a completely selective interpretation of the translator. In fact, the word is only "Istarquu" or "perform Ruqyah". It does not say anything about the manner of Ruqyah to be performed. However, the Shuruuh of the Hadith, especially Umdat al-Qari, details the proper Ruqyah for Evil Eye, if the culprit is known, and what to do if the culprit is not known.
    Last edited by AbuNajm; 12-10-18, 01:54 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by AbuNajm View Post

      وعليك السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته

      Just curious- what are the references for the interpretation of the term "Saf`ah" as "black spot"?
      salaam aghi

      The reference is a translation which i copied.

      I think rather than an actual black spot it would have been a darker spot on the skin
      Perhaps a translating issue, because سَفْعَةٌ comes from the arabic سفع which means sunburn or suntan so the logical translation would be a darker spot on the skin and not a black patch perse.

      I have seen this on children in the face subhanallah and the child in peticular was often praised for its beautiful face may Allah cure it and protect it from all harm ins or jinn.
      And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by european muslim View Post
        ...The word nathra rather than ayn indicates that the evil eye was given by a jinn instead of a human...
        Source?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by european muslim View Post

          salaam aghi

          The reference is a translation which i copied.
          The translation is a very important part of understanding what happened and the description of the girl which is important to understanding what to look for in a patient and what to do for them.

          It's not correct to rely on someone else for a translation when it is so important to know the details of the situation.

          Originally posted by european muslim View Post
          I think rather than an actual black spot it would have been a darker spot on the skin
          That is the impression that is given from the translation, however the translation is wrong.

          Originally posted by european muslim View Post
          Perhaps a translating issue, because سَفْعَةٌ comes from the arabic سفع which means sunburn or suntan so the logical translation would be a darker spot on the skin and not a black patch perse.
          In modern Arabic, the term has come to mean "suntan", and with Dhammah on the first consonant "Siin" for the Masdar; however the term is with a Fat'hah on the first consonant and the Hadith is dealing with classical Arabic.

          So, appealing to a standard Arabic-English dictionary is not the correct way to understand Hadith. Rather, one must refer to the books of Shuruuh. They are the only authoritative explanations for the Hadith of the Prophet, peace be upon him. The books of Shuruuh contain all of the linguistic information for the Ahadith based on the understanding at the time of the Prophet, peace be upon him.

          Originally posted by european muslim View Post
          I have seen this on children in the face subhanallah and the child in peticular was often praised for its beautiful face may Allah cure it and protect it from all harm ins or jinn.
          This is not right. Seems like you're assuming the meaning of this Hadith is as translated and then using your subjective experiences and what you "think" to diagnose the problem.

          Comment


          • #6
            Salaam Brother AbuNajm.

            Your analysis is correct and well founded.
            I hereby retract my comments.

            Could you give your explanation for the word saf"a ?
            It seems you have a deeper understanding of the arabic language.

            Barakallahoefiek.
            Last edited by european muslim; 12-10-18, 02:09 PM.
            And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

            Comment


            • #7





              This is not right. Seems like you're assuming the meaning of this Hadith is as translated and then using your subjective experiences and what you "think" to diagnose the problem.[/QUOTE]

              This is based on experiences with people that were afflicted with ayn.
              It was just to show that the experiences i have had seem to corroborate what is generally understood by that perticular hadith.

              And Allah knows best.

              And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by european muslim View Post
                ...This is based on experiences with people that were afflicted with ayn.
                It was just to show that the experiences i have had seem to corroborate what is generally understood by that perticular hadith...
                I was excited when I saw this thread. I thought at last, questions that were asked several times are finally going to be answered with evidences. Alas, it's just more anecdotes.

                -_-

                Comment


                • #9
                  And again, before people get upset about what I am doing in this thread, let me explain:

                  I have studied the explanations for the Hadith in question, in the original Arabic, and I understand each word and the different possible meanings assigned by both linguists, the Salaf and later scholars. It is clear to me that the OP has not done this before commenting because of the translation he relied on and the statement he made about both the Hadith and his understanding of it without qualification.

                  All I am doing is trying to get the OP to understand something- relying on an unverified translation and adopting an opinion about the meaning of a Hadith does not give a person license to make recommendations or comment from their own subjective experience.

                  This applies to all areas of Islam, not just Ruqyah and Islamic medicine.

                  Now some people who already have a grudge are going to point to this and say that I have a problem of some sort. On the contrary, I have studied the matter and found that the OP is missing a lot of information and posting an incorrect translation- no matter how common this mistake might be, it must not substitute the information from those of us who have studied the texts and subject directly.

                  Hate me, my manner of approaching these matters, my name, whatever about me that is disagreeable. But do yourself and others a favor and don't hate that I'm trying to teach the OP something and share valuable information about these topics that you're not going to get elsewhere, for free.

                  Now is the time to ask me to share some of the information from the multitude of Shuruuh that exist only in Arabic. It is not the time to divert the thread and make this about me or the OP.

                  It's about the Hadith and the correct understanding of it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by european muslim View Post

                    This is based on experiences with people that were afflicted with ayn.
                    It was just to show that the experiences i have had seem to corroborate what is generally understood by that perticular hadith.

                    And Allah knows best.
                    Would it surprise you to know then that the version of this Hadith in Sahih Muslim has az-Zuhri specifically saying after the Hadith that "it means her face was yellow"?

                    How could you properly diagnose anyone if you think that it means "a black spot"?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                      I was excited when I saw this thread. I thought at last, questions that were asked several times are finally going to be answered with evidences. Alas, it's just more anecdotes.

                      -_-
                      Was the answer of AbuNajm not sufficient?

                      Also this is a forum where experiences and thoughts are shared.
                      I am not giving fatwas
                      I am here to learn and share.

                      And Alhamdoellilah i have learned something today.
                      May Allah reward AbuNajm for his detailed answer.

                      And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by european muslim View Post

                        Was the answer of AbuNajm not sufficient?

                        Also this is a forum where experiences and thoughts are shared.
                        I am not giving fatwas
                        I am here to learn and share.

                        And Alhamdoellilah i have learned something today.
                        May Allah reward AbuNajm for his detailed answer.
                        You could have at least shared where you copied the translation from.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                          You could have at least shared where you copied the translation from.
                          https://muflihun.com/bukhari/71/635 for the arabic.

                          and for quick english search. https://www.searchtruth.com/searchHa...t&translator=1
                          And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by european muslim View Post
                            The text in the OP is different to the one in the link?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                              The text in the OP is different to the one in the link?

                              the searchtruth is for quick hadith and quranic word search.
                              And the thunder exalts [ Allah ] with praise of Him - and the angels [as well] from fear of Him - and He sends thunderbolts and strikes therewith whom He wills while they dispute about Allah ; and He is severe in assault

                              Comment

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