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    #16
    Re: Hajj process

    Originally posted by Ismail Simjee View Post
    Since writing that article, thanks to your request, I have found some further points that hujjajs should understand clearly and qurbani is one of them.

    I wonder whether to continue here or start another new thread?
    Keep it here as it will make it easier to refer back to this one post for future use.

    Jazakallah Khair for your efforts in writing these explanations.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Hajj process

      Originally posted by rockinter View Post
      Last year when I went there was place behind safa and marwa, but there were like 100 people with 20 containers each so it would mean waiting the whole night to get the water. How does one fill up their zam zam containers during Hajj time? Is there a special place one can go?

      Also are there barbers in Mina to get your head shaved? Does one have take their own blades, is it hygienic?
      Take a taxi to their Kudai pumping centre.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Hajj process

        Originally posted by Hajj2009 View Post
        Last Year, I brought my own razor blades and carried it in a small pouch. [thats ust me I guess]
        I suggest an electric razor instead as there are no barbers around the Europa camps. There are licensed barbers around the Jamaraat bridge though but the way the pilgrims get treated is akin to sheeps being shaven by farmers for their wool.

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Hajj process

          Originally posted by islam_4eva View Post
          Keep it here as it will make it easier to refer back to this one post for future use.

          Jazakallah Khair for your efforts in writing these explanations.
          QURBANI.

          More and more haj agents are declining the Qurbani for the simple reason that this issue has become notorious, perhaps, on similar basis as who is an honest haj operator and who is a rogue?

          I personally had the experience of being closely questioned by a very few hujjaj on their qurbani whilst the large majority were content with my assurance that it will be, is being, and is done etc.

          Horrorrified hujjajs return back from their haj and pour out their terrible experience and that does have some effect in influencing future hujjajs. Hence, because of suspicions and doubts over the qurbani some agents refuse to do it, period.

          If you have selected reputable operators then I ask you to put your trust about not only your qurbani but the whole of the tour into their hands and leave to Allah-Azza wa Jal- to be The Witness.

          This is what you can do for the Qurbani:

          a) If it is included in your tour and you want to ensure it is done then say so to the group leader from the time you book with him that you will accompany him to the place he goes to do the sacrifices. A credible agent will readily agree. Be prepared, however, to walk long distances to the other end of Makkah. I used the Nuzza area's market which is at least 7 miles from Mina.

          b) If it is not included in the package then you have two options:

          1. Buy a voucher from vendors whose stalls are around the Haram or go to the bank under Hilton Towers and pay for your qurbani.
          Beware, though, that the ticket number will have an "approximate" time printed for the sacrifice and it may be that you may take your ihram off without the qurbani being done by then. There is no guaranteed method to obtaining a precise timing as this method involves thousands of sacrifices being carried out in the slaughter houses sited around Mina. So, it is up to you to determine when to take the ihram off.

          2. Go to the slaughter house yourself.
          The nearest slaughter house to Europa is past the tunnels (the other direction to jamaraat). Go over and pay the qurbani charge. They will issue you a ticket. You cannot select the animal. You will be told to go to the site and look in through the windows and decide that one of the animal is yours and observe its slaughter while you make the niyya. If you wish to have the carcass then you will have to go to the other end and pick up the next available carcass in exchange for the voucher and carry it away, literally, on your shoulders. Alternatively, there will be people around who would take that for their own consumption(Wallah Alam) or may be sell them off. You should be in no position to judge that at all as your mission is over and you leave that matter in His Hands.
          If you know someone in Makkah then accompany him to markets, spattered around Makkah, and buy an animal from vendors. Take the animal to the abbottoir for slaughter and skinning. You will be charged for that. Dispense with the carcass as above.
          Never offer your animal to any man weilding a knife offering to slaughter it for you. They will simply kill the animal and throw it away to rot.

          More info, InshaAllah, on Haj soon.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Hajj process

            Is the Kudai pumping station a proper place for filling zamzam water? I mean if i tell the taxi driver will he able to take me there?

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Hajj process

              A Makkah Taxi will know where it is. You have to distinguish between a Makkah Taxi and a Madinah or Jedda taxi by looking at their sign on the roof.

              The pumping station is dedicated one for extracting and despatching zamzam water to Madinah or for other larger users. Individuals are allowed to fill up their can.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Hajj process

                asalamu alaikum

                Inshallah my aunt will be accompanying me for Hajj and she will need a wheel chair for the tawaf and sa'ee as she is in her sixties and suffers from certain physical ailments.

                My question is re. wheel chairs. I would rather have our own and push my aunt, are they easily available and how much do they cost? The other option is to use the guys in the haram but they seem to treat the umrah like a race. If i have to use them how much do they charge?

                Also we are expected to be in makkah on 3rd or 4th of November, will it still be very crowded 10 days before the hajj starts?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Hajj process

                  Originally posted by Hajj1431nshalla View Post
                  asalamu alaikum

                  Inshallah my aunt will be accompanying me for Hajj and she will need a wheel chair for the tawaf and sa'ee as she is in her sixties and suffers from certain physical ailments.

                  My question is re. wheel chairs. I would rather have our own and push my aunt, are they easily available and how much do they cost? The other option is to use the guys in the haram but they seem to treat the umrah like a race. If i have to use them how much do they charge?

                  Also we are expected to be in makkah on 3rd or 4th of November, will it still be very crowded 10 days before the hajj starts?
                  OF WHEELCHAIRS AND BUSES - HAJJ PROCESS

                  WHEELCHAIRS.

                  Wheelchair users are advised to take their wheelchairs from UK ensuring that they are insured and that you also take with you robust locking chain and padlock. This is because of the real danger of theft.

                  Likewise, if you have motorised chairs or scooters, take them with you with the above stated caveat. In addition, also ensure that you have the battery specifications and simple tools such as Allen key etc to attend to "first aid" of the chair if need be.

                  Occasional users or those who are infirm but not using them are very likely to require the use of a wheelchair over there.

                  There are no free to rent wheelchair facility in Madina unless you are staying in the top upmarket hotels and they have some in stock to let you borrow.

                  In Makkah the scenario is like this:

                  Unless you are very fit you can forget the idea of performing your tawaf in the mataaf area (ground floor) as the mataaf is never free from 1st Zul Haj until well after the hajj is over.

                  Depending on the type of Hajj that you may be intending to perform you WILL be doing the Tawaaf minimum of three times and the Sai likewise. Given your motability in all likelihood you will be doing that upstairs or the roof or in the designated ring setaside for wheelchairs on the first floor if you are a wheelchair user. In all cases, excepting the mataaf, your seven rounds of one tawaaf would be at least 6 miles. Sai itself is just under 4 miles. So the completion of the tawaaf and sai would mean 10 miles.

                  It is, therefore, essential that you weigh the situation in reference to your health and endurance and decide whether you would walk the length or choose the wheelchair.

                  In addition, all UK hujjajs, excepting those in the private camps, would be walking to the jamaraat from their europa camps three times. Each return trip, if not ventured beyond the jamaraat (going to Aziziya or to haram) would equal to two and half miles. You will need to assess your fitness for walking or using the wheelchair again.

                  1. Taking your own wheelchair from UK.
                  If you do not use a wheelchair but require it given the above statement you have two choices:
                  a) Buy a second hand wheelchair from any motability shops.
                  b) Borrow it either from the social services of your local council or from the Red Cross.

                  Both Red Cross and the Social Services may provide an easily collapsable/foldable wheelchair in return for a small payment or deposit.
                  In both a) and b) instances, mark your wheelchair properly for identification and have that insured against damage or loss. Take a
                  chain and padlock with you. The wheelchairs, you will be surprised to find out, develops a tendency to walk away if you are not physically
                  sitting on it, so beware.

                  2. Rely on the hotels you are staying in to let you borrow their wheelchair.
                  This is like relying on the bus you are waiting for to come on time, literally. Dont count on it as such facility is in short supply. Besides, the hotels will
                  not allow you to keep the wheelchair with you for the whole duration of stay nor allow you to take it to Mina.

                  3. Buy a wheelchair when you arrive in Makkah or Madina.
                  All local chemists (pharmacists) sell wheelchairs made in China. At Haj time they may be priced around SR500 = £90 ish. Given the cheapness of
                  these ( in UK the cheapest wheelchair costs £500) reflects its quality and, if you use it daily, then it would not remain in shape by the time hajj is
                  over and you are on your way back. Nevertheless, it is still good value and it is YOURS which matters most. All you need is someone to wheel you
                  around and you look at your companion if one is travelling with you. Otherwise, you will need a "volunteer" to do that for you in return for a generous
                  "hadiya" and full support if he is stopped by the police or haram authorities.

                  4. Engage the local young lads with their own wheelchairs.
                  This is possible only once you access the haram and nowehere else.
                  These young lad, most of them are just income seekers whilst a few others may have proper authority to carry you around in their chair. If they are
                  not authorised then be prepared to be dumped right in the middle of a tawaaf or a sai by a fast disappearing young man with his chair and your
                  money !!!!!
                  These lads may either agree to do the tawaaf or the sai or both. Their charges are very high and you may end up paying over £100 per tawaaf and
                  sai.
                  If you do agree their charge then never pay upfront unless the tawaaf is completed or the sai is completed or both. As stated above, they can
                  easily tip you out of the chair and make off and there is nothing you can do about it. Be prepared to be wheeled around at a speed higher than
                  allowed on our M1 or M6 and learn to recite your Dhikar as speedily.

                  5. Borrow a motorised scooter or manual wheelchair from the haram authority.
                  Possible only in Makka. You are not permitted to take them out of Haram. You have to leave a deposit before they lend you a chair. It is pot luck
                  as to the quality of the chair you get as a majority of the chairs have had it by the time it is 1st Zul Haj !!!
                  The wheelchair unit is on the first floor at Bab as Safa Gate area. You cannot miss it as there is a wooden bridge spanning that area.

                  If you have your own wheelchair you will not be allowed entry into the ground floor during hajj. You will HAVE to go to the 1st floor or above. The access to the first floor is through ramps between Bab al Umra to Bab al Fatah, and from Marwa end from Gaza and through a ramp next to the Royal Palace andbetween Bak Malik Aziz gate and Safa.

                  There are also lift access outside Bab as Safa gate.

                  Be prepared for a lot of pushing/shoving and all forms of argy bargy because not only the wheelchair user behind you would try and cut you out of the queue or press you forward but other perfectly fit men/women would push you out of the way/queue and get into the lifts. These type of queue jumpers are usually Arabs who have no etiquettes or manners or regard for the infirm and disabled.

                  When travelling from one point to another in the Muallim supplied buses, try to keep the wheelchair with you next to your seat on board if at all possible. If travelling in one group that should not be a problem. Otherwise your wheelchair will be manhandled onto the roof or into the luggage compartment and may well get damaged.

                  BUSES.

                  There are two types of government supplied buses.

                  a) From airports to your destination and between Makkah and Madinah.
                  These are cramped coaches with no facility for W/C on board. They have roof rea dedicated for luggage. If travelling in one group you need to ensure
                  only that your luggage is/being loaded without being complacent about that or relying on your group leader to do so. Luggages has been known to
                  walk away leaving you to look for emergency supply of change of clothing at best and your medication or other essential possessions at worst. Be
                  warned.
                  b) For transfer between Makkah/Mina/Arafat.
                  These has absolutely no space for luggage. Hence, wheelchairs especially, has to be taken on board. The less you have the better it is for you and
                  others.

                  Buses are allocated to your group on 7th Zul hajj and the number of buses will reflect the size of your group. On average there is just one bus to be
                  shared between 150 hujjajs and each bus can carry just 50 people.
                  Your group leader has to travel to Arafah to collect the bus. Unless he is extremely popular with the officials there and has taken care of them he
                  would be the first to get the bus and you may well be on your way to Mina by midnight.
                  Otherwise, the buses start to roll by midnight. Much will depend on the skill and the persuasive ability of your group leader to manage his 150 hujjajs
                  (assuming that to be the group size) for the transfers in an orderly manner with your active understanding, Sabar, and co-operation. Otherwise there
                  is chaos and serious arguments and a likelihood of all 150 attempting to board this one bus as if there will be no tomorrow.
                  Those who get to Mina first and getting their allocated camps tend to regard the space as their master bedroom and spread out. Unless there are pre-
                  allocated sofa-beds or mattresses (which marks your space) you only get a space of your total physical width, period. And it is not your group leader
                  who has been miserally in this tight space allocation but rather it is the mutawwif and the MoH.
                  Your group leader is expected to use the one bus in shuttle basis transferring you all in three round trips. Be patient and remember that you are in
                  Ihram and on your way to Mina to start the Haj process. Don't allow the Shaitan to sabotage your hajj as this is the start of his devious tactics to
                  fragment and divide the hujjaj and pit them against their fellow hujjajs, group leaders and the authority.
                  The luggage you need to carry is just simple. One towel, one pair of spare ihram, bottle of drinking water, toiletry and a change of clothing when
                  coming out of ihram and an umbrella. Perhaps a sleeping bag or mat for muzdalifa.
                  The transfer to Arafat will depend on what understanding the many groups from within that Maktab have agreed with their mutawwif. Normally it
                  is on a lot drawn and whoever gets the lot in sequential order takes his group out on the shuttles. Likewise is the transfer from Arafah.
                  If, however, there is no understanding, than again the Shaitan will have a field day. Hujajs will fill up the corridors and instead of reciting the Talbiyah
                  will be using language no normal faithful muslim would resort to. Iron gates will get broken and officials controlling them would be abused or attacked
                  and selfish group leaders, trying to impress their flock, would encourage them to get on the street and block traffic just to hijack the next bus and
                  board.
                  Same chaos will descend in Arafah in the evening and the next day in Muzdalifah.
                  Twenty years now since I entered this work and never once have I or any other group leaders have ever left a single hujjaj behind in Mina, Arafah,
                  Muzdalifa or at Mina on way back to Makkah. Yet the behaviour is nothing less than an anarchy by muslims against muslims.

                  TAWAF/SAI ZEIRA

                  Unless a group, in the private camps have made a pre-arrangement, no group to my knowledge have ever committed themselves to providing you
                  with the transport from Makkah to Haram to complete these Manaseks. It is simply not possible to do so. Many encourage walking for those fit for
                  doing so. Other group leaders would take their group to the main road and flag down passing mini buses, GMCs or even empty buses and barter a deal
                  for the group and take them to Haram. This is the easy part. The difficult part is in bringing them back which is absolutely impossible and most of the
                  hujjajs are left on their own to return back to their camps.

                  HOW TO IDENTIFY YOUR CAMPSITE

                  When you arrive at your camps in Mina, you are well advised to mark your tent number and the corridor number that the tent is located on. This is indicated on top of the door flap and at corner of intersecting corridors.

                  The next important thing you MUST do is to go outside and look up at the pole in your camp. It is colour coded and have a set of number eg.,
                  xxx/yyy. Each consequential pole has similar numbers in chronological order.

                  So, your office may be Europa 43 A or B. Your pole number may be 141/225. This is the marking that will be used to identify the location of your particular maktab in Mina.
                  Last edited by Ismail Simjee; 01-09-10, 02:36 PM.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Hajj process

                    Jazakhallhu khair once again brother ismail for the detailed reply.

                    I think maybe this thread should be a sticky as it provides valuable information for those intending to go on Hajj.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Hajj process

                      I've asked the moderator to make it a sticky.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Hajj process

                        People who have to do tawaf ziyarat themselves, are minibuses available 24 hours day from mina camp to Makkah? Also if you want to get back to mina from Makkah do you get the buses from the saptco bus stand next to hilton? And where would the bus drop you, would it be mina camp or jamarat?
                        Also for people with elderly people what time would you recommend to go and do the rummy, so there is no rush?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Hajj process

                          Private minis run around the clock but are at best "jalopys" that would badly fail our MOT if in UK.
                          Saptco does run buses to Mina. Drop you well before jamaraat.
                          Elderly are best advised to do the RAMI after dusk and into the night.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Hajj process

                            I just saw that last year there was heavy flooding. What precautions can hajjis take this year if it floods again?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Hajj process

                              No, it was heavy downpour rather than flooding. There is nothing you can do as you are in Mina and the responsibility is of the ministry. Pilgrims suffered severe soaking in some camps whilst others were not affected.
                              Our camps housing brothers escaped the damage but the sisters, next door, got soaking especially those nearer to the sides of the tents.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Hajj process

                                Brother Ismail Simjee

                                I am writing from Melbourne, Australia.

                                This year my father, mother, wife and I plan to perform Hajj together, Inshallah. My mother, wife & I are living in Melbourne as permanent residents. My father lives in Bangladesh and does not have Australian residency. My father is taking a Hajj package from Bangladesh to obtain Hajj visa only and one package from Australia which will include transportation, hotel & Azizah/Shisha accommodation with meals, Mina and Arafat accommodation with meals and return ticket to Bangladesh. So that he can perform the Hajj together with us under our Melbourne agent’s service provider.

                                >>>OK, cool. It will be challenging for your haj operator more than for you.

                                My father’s passport will have a bar code representing his agent/Maktab of south Asian Moassasa whereas we will have Maktab belonging to the Australian establishment.

                                >>>Yes, correct in your father's case but it will be for "muslims of Europa and Australia" rather than Australia.

                                My Mother, wife and I will be meeting my father at Doha and then flying together to Jeddah.

                                >>>Very wise decision.

                                My father’s flight to Jeddah is 2 days before our Melbourne flight as a result my Mother, wife and I will be traveling to Jeddah from Melbourne 2 days earlier and no-one else from the Melbourne camp will be travelling with us. Our intent is that my father remains under our Maktab care once we arrive at Jeddah and the four of us plan to travel to Makkah together using shared bus transportation with pilgrims from other countries.

                                >>>This is where the complications arise and the best way to overcome that is to arrive in Jeddah at more or less same time as the larger group from Australia.

                                The difficulty cannot be averted due to regulations over there. Your passports, once processed by the immigration, will be required to be presented to the United Agent's officials BEFORE you collect your luggage and pass through Customs.

                                The United Agents will place a colour coded sticker into the passports which would reflect the countries the holder originates/or a national of.

                                I have the following questions concerning the Maktab passport ownership/ ID card issue/transportation in terms of the process involved:

                                1. Can we transfer the Bangladesh represented Maktab control of my father to the Australian Maktab at the Jeddah airport? If yes, what process we will need to go through to transfer the Maktab ownership?



                                >>>This is where the complication is. A group leader is in far better position to do that than an individual pilgrim. However, it is possible. You will need to take all your passports to the Ministry of Haj's office at the airport ONCE your arrival process is completed with the haj draft exchanged for the barcoded vouchers in your passports.

                                You show the officials your booking vouchers from your agent in Australia and explain to them how your father has joined you and intend to remain with you as your dependant.

                                The MoH will than issue you a printout after they agree to do the changeover from south asia to muslim europa and they will adhere the europa maktab number on everyone's passports.



                                2. Can we take a private taxi/Microbus to travel to Makkah from Jeddah rather than travelling with the shared bus transportation to avoid long delay? If so, what process do we need to undertake to arrange one? Will there be a guide with us if we take a private taxi? Will the reception centre for Makkah deal with us if there is no guide with us?



                                >>>Unless your group leader has made the necessary arrangement with "Adilla/Naqaba" in Jedda when he has gone there to register his group this year for you to take a private transport, the answer is NO.



                                You cannot arbitrally change the mode of transport and will HAVE to accept the general logistics on offer at the airport.



                                The added difficulty is the number of passengers with you being just four and the buses are for between 44 to 50 pilgrims.



                                You may well be fortunate to board a bus with just one group occupying it meaning they will drop you off at your maktab first or second. However, if it is not just one group that you travel with but a large number of similar pilgrims than you had it. The bus will make multiple calls and stopovers until it drops you unless you are lucky to be dropped off first. You have no say in this.



                                There is no such advantage as having "guides". Your guide is your group leader you travel with and you are NOT travelling with your group so no guide.



                                3. Can we arrange a private taxi to travel to Madinah from Jeddah and what would it involve arranging one?



                                >>>In short a BIG NO. Not allowed. You WILL have to accept the transport arranged by the United Agents at Jedda haj terminal, period.



                                4. What issues will we come across if we take shared bus transportation? Will there be a guide with us on the bus?

                                >>> See answer in #2 above.

                                In addition, as your group is arriving 2 days AFTER you do, your dedicated Maktab Office may not be pleased to see you arrive beforehand.

                                You make sure you have the copies of the hotel booking documents with you as that will determine your housing requirement and answer the question as to what you are doing in KSA BEFORE your group has arrived.

                                You will also need this as evidence to be shown to the hoteliers when you are sent there by the maktab office in Makkah once you are off-loaded from your bus and sent there in a taxi which you will have to pay.

                                Your feedback on the above would be appreciated.

                                I am sure you will not mind if I post this correspondence on the forum as it is a relevant bit for my "sticky" on Haj Process.

                                Abu Hassan

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