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    Muslims in Britain

    Date Posted: Monday, August 02, 2004

    The number of Muslims in Britain is generally put at around 1.5 million, though some community groups suggest it could be nearer two million.

    Perhaps half came originally from Pakistan, with the Middle East and North Africa accounting for around a quarter. Several hundred thousand originated in Bangladesh, with India also contributing significant numbers.

    The largest Muslim communities are in Greater London, the West Midlands, West Yorkshire, Lancashire and central Scotland. Most belong to the Sunni tradition of Islam, which accounts for 90% of Muslims worldwide. Only a small proportion of British Muslims are Shi'as.

    British Muslims face growing tensions. Most came here from somewhere else, and were therefore once immigrants, people who naturally still looked back to their homelands. But they have put down deep roots, and their children -- a growing proportion of the entire Islamic community -- are Britons who happen to be Muslims.

    They continue to face discrimination and disadvantage: Bangladeshis and Pakistanis together have a long-term unemployment rate nearly three times greater than people of West Indian descent. In the inner cities, nearly half of all Bangladeshi and Pakistani adults are out of work.

    The number of Muslims in prison in England and Wales rose by 40% in the four years to 1995 to account for nine per cent of the prison population, although Muslims constitute only about four per cent of the entire British population.

    The overwhelming majority of British Muslims are intent simply on living their lives without interference: faithful adherents of their chosen religion, and at the same time loyal citizens of their chosen country.

    But the problems they face here are intensified by some of the acts committed in the name of Islam by people who most Muslims reject.

    The massacre at the Egyptian tourist resort of Luxor, the long nightmare of the civil war in Algeria, the treatment of members of other faiths by some Muslims in countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, the fatwa or religious edict by Iran against the writer, Salman Rushdie - all contribute to the mistaken identification of Muslims with violence and conflict.

    The launching of the Muslim Council of Britain is an attempt, the organizers say, "to highlight the fact that we are an asset to the nation and to celebrate the contribution we have made to society".

    It will tackle discrimination against Muslims in areas such as religion and education. Its founders expect more than 250 organizations to support the new umbrella group -- out of 500 that have been invited. But already it faces opposition from fringe groups who say it doesn't represent them.
    URGENT!!! your help is badly needed - fundraising for marriage

    Explore your British Muslim identity

    Who do you think you are? British-Muslim? British Muslim? Muslim in Britain? English / Indian / Jordanian / Nigerian / Other Muslim in Britain?

    The Muslim News is interested in your views of what you feel defines your identity in Britain in the 21st Century. What makes you proud to be living in Britain? What makes you despair? Who do you support when international sporting fixtures feature British teams? What do you call 'home'?

    Have your say:

    Comments received:

    Waheed, instead of going into Iraq to secure the oil in order to keep the country where you're living going, would have been better to let Saddam in his place? Sure we did create more hatred but we avoided muany more bad things!
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    I am a British Muslim convert and I also find myself getting stuck between my new religion and my hostile surroundings. People are too willing to settle with stereotypes. Not all terrorists are 'muslims' - how quickly we forget Timothy Mcveigh and the problems the UK had with the IRA. Are the mafia a good advert for the Catholic Church? The media has our future in their hands and without full support of the muslim community I can only see us being ostracised further.
    Stephie, Milton Keynes, United Kingdom

    well I don't know what being British has to offer any Muslim in terms of culture or idea's. Islam is a unique sytem and unique Identity. I ask you Muslims in Britain, would you fight for Britian in Iraq? Would you let your children "decide" if homosexuality is ok? Would you let your children decide if they should be Muslim or Kafir?I am sure you would say no to all. This "British" Muslim rubbish seeks to divide Muslims from Britian from the rest of the Ummah!!! Don't let this happen!!!
    Rashaad, Faisalabad, Pakistan

    Why do Muslims object to "religious profiling"? If we were threatened by Communist or neo-Nazi terrorists, then the police would rightly investigate Communists and neo-Nazis. Why should Muslims be any different to other belief groups, whether those beliefs be religious or political? There's no point questioning, say, Buddhists or Pagans when the terrorists are clearly Islamic.
    Steve Anthony, United Kingdom

    I am an aetheist, it does not mean I want to be ignorant of the world but there are things I fundimentaly don't understand. I read the "you are wrong because of this", "you are wrong because of this", I read of the exploitation. I don't deny the exploitation of the west on the 3rd world but neither do I deny the exploitation of the likes of Saddam Hussain on his people. The basic truth is we are all at fault, lets be honest as people and then we can move forward and make the world a better place
    Neil Hull, Bo;ton, United Kingdom

    In my opinion it matters not one iota whether one considers oneself a Christian, Jew, Muslim or Hindu. British, Bangladeshi or Indian.

    At the end of the day, what matters is the way we as individuals behave towards each other. This is what defines us as individuals.

    Iqbal Ahmed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    I was born here as a Christian. I was British and my religion was protestant. I am still British and now my religion is Islam. My being British has nothing to do with my religion. My wife is Singaporean. She is a muslim, but she has never had to say she is a Singaporean muslim. Why is it only in Britain religion has to play a part in who we are. I still dress as I always have, I'm English after all. But muslims from other races should have the right to dress according to their culture.
    Dave, Cumbria, United Kingdom

    Paul its not that easy, if you create hatred you are now forced to live with it, how much bridges could you have built by saying lets wait and see of iraq is a threat, lets wait to see what the possible consequences will be, lets wait and see if muslism will respond well, INSTEAD you went in like gorilla's have killed, murdered and torutured and now millions WANT REVENGE NICE GOING, now your solution is leave if you feel angry, Not a chance mate not a chance you are going to have to live with it
    waheed hussain, United Kingdom

    The standards of living of all Western countries depend on oil. The legality of the war in Iraq is about oil. Killing muslims there don't matter. Take it or leave it if you don't like it, and leave this country for good!
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    Pointless disucssuin really, i mean illegal wars kill patriotism in hearts, I love britain its my home i was born here its wet and rains alot but its home, Yet the patritoism was ripped out of my heart when this country went alog with ameirca to kill and attack muslims, im confused why anyone would question me n this issue, how can i have patriotism when i see muslims killed and torutured by soldiers fighting a illegalw ar because of this country and the united states
    Zaid, United Kingdom


    The nation would still be Britain. So an example UK definitions could be:

    British Pakistani
    Black British
    Brown British
    Asian British or British Asian

    The nation being Britain
    The tribe being Black, Brown, Asian,African, Pakistaani,Nigerian ...

    The deen being Islaam

    The firqat being for example sunni..

    The definition is really chosen by the individual themself as they know best how they grew up and their own sub-culture... so they define their own tribe.

    Robin Hossain, London, United Kingdom

    This debate is somewhat meaningless as it is very difficult to define the terms being used – ‘British’ and ‘Muslim’ in such a cavalier fashion. They have different meanings for different people. The values encapsulated in both are at once compatible and alien since value systems seldom remain static.

    All we can do as individuals is to be at our best and do good to others, both as our deen (faith) and nationality demand of us.

    Shazeda Khatun, London, United Kingdom

    You should all be friends and try and help each other in your daily lives instead of fighting. Realize that you are mere puppets in the hands of people wanting power and oil. If you were friends, you´d be strong. A British isn´t perfect nor a Muslim is. You all have qualities and defects. You should support each other. Wisdom is the key. Humanism is the answer. Don´t let bad things rule your lives. Let´s enjoy what we have!
    Antonio Wilson, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

    As a Christian i would agree with Rinek if the whole of england became islamic i would do the same as you ---jihad
    andrew, london, United Kingdom

    I'm a Briton of Bangladeshi Muslim origin. I don't see any problems with that. One cannot compare a national identity with a religious one. They are not one and the same.
    Rinek Mosan Chowdhury, London, United Kingdom

    There is no such thing as a Brtish Muslim. The majority of you only come here because it is a free meal ticket!
    Harvey, London, United Kingdom

    Muslims know the West fought hard to get rid of Feudal system. West don't realise oppression from Feudalism not came from God but from corrupted men making their own laws in God's name. Today, politicians make the laws and people still oppressed. Islamic khilafah system not man-made. Khalif elected 2 implement law NOT make them. Legislation from Creator. If Paul (Aberdeen) wants 2 defend his values, he can't be a common person & ignorant of Islam. After all we are facing ideological war.
    Umm Sulayman, London, United Kingdom

    Waheed "my" democracy is what allows you to speak out against me and western values within my own country. What you mentioned about imperialism is beyond reach, control and awareness of common people. There's nothing we can do about the first world exploiting the third one. I am only defending my values. It's you and all the muslims like you that want to impose in my own country your unacceptable customs of gender segregation, animal abuse and religious bigotry!!
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim living in Britain. As such that makes me no different from a Britain of any other faith. However, as long as political movements such as the BNP peddle lies about the Islamic faith, I don't think any of us will ever be considered 'British' in our right to be here. (see latest BBC report on Undercover in BNP)
    Irfan Mahomed, Leicester, United Kingdom

    i was born in the UK and am 16. I have move acroos the country from bradford to gloucester. It becomes clear that muslims will never be accepted. In bradford i a hardline mulsim with tradtional values and so were my friends we used to look out for each other as the BNP would travel in groups of 30's in town and try to beat up young muslims. However in gloucester my new "muslim" friends were more liberal to the extent of taking drugs and having girlfriends. They too still suffer racist abuse!
    asim khan , gloucester, United Kingdom

    Paul half the world siffes in poverty while the other half [america & co] rape the 3rd world of resources what fairness is there, what has your democracy bought to the world except to make you rich enough to abuse the rest, imperialism was supposed to be over but you havent ended it you have continued to abuse millions and continued to force your will on nations across the planet, in iraq you waged a illegal war killed thousands of muslims and now you want to force upon us your ideals
    waheed hussain, United Kingdom

    again paul, clearly from your comments you obviously haven't done your reading or research. The Islamic laws protect all, muslim or non-muslims, whereas your so-called secular democratic countries do not when it's absolutely uncalled for.i don't pose a threat to anyone so why should i be treated unfairly simply because of my faith.i don't want to go centuries back. The Islamic law can be implemented at any time including modern times.the democracy poses a greater threat than an Islamic state.
    A Liberated Muslim Woman, United Kingdom

    "Liberated Woman":What do you mean by Islamic State?In any case it always involves the implementation of sharia law. What you all Muslims do not understand is the fact that the West is made of secular countries and we fought very hard to gain the liberation we achieved from religion. Why do you want to go centuries back? I appeal to all non Muslims like me to reject such a threat and to stand for what we achieved through reason and understanding not through the authority of few "enlighted" ones.
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    Paul, i have to say that because there is no true islamic state you can't see how peaceful life could be.There are muslim countries but none implement the beautiful teachings of Islam. If u read about the history of when the islamic state was abolished in certain countries many non-muslims were upset they lost just muslim rulers.Christian leaders cried as they had protection no more.That's y i asked u 2 read about Islam and u will realise what is often portrayed is far from Islam and the truth.
    A Liberated Muslim Woman, United Kingdom

    Farid, you seem to forget that the west has fought for centuries against the oppression of christian religion.We don't need to be dominated by bigot superstitions in order to be considered human beings as you muslim think. There's no way we're gonna be drawn back from your medieval authoritarian system and that's why I do not respect it.
    I already sent two answer to you and the other "liberated" woman but the website don't want to publish them.
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    Paul,if you mean the covering of the head by Muslim women.Why do Nuns cover hair,if you look at any picture or statue of Mary mother of Jesus,you find she has her hair covered,funny that isnt it(did Jesus oppress Mary?)so it isnt medieval or alien to the West.You say Muslims are intolerent.Islamic priciple is to live in harmany and implement social justice.This is enriched in Koran (3:75,5:8,21:107,60:8)as in the Jewish and Chistian Scriptures. Are all Chrisians,Jews and Muslims Fundamentalists?
    Farid, Swansea, United Kingdom

    I consider myself to be muslim and nothing else. What does it matter where we live? The whole earth is Allah's and so it's all home. It doesn't matter where you are in the world as long as you have faith in your heart.Besides there is no true Islamic state anywhere so there is no ideal place to live in this world any more. Paul your comments are wrong.Try to actually learn about Islam and not believe what media tells you.You will then realise Islam is not babaric and oppressive but liberating!
    A Liberated Muslim Woman, Bedfordshire, United Kingdom

    I was born in the UK, i dont have to like it or accrept it, why should i the UK has forced itself upon millions of people around the world, what makes me more british then being self serving and holding my own beliefs above anyone elses, the UK has bowed to america and is trying to force its ideology upon muslims in iraq, YET paul says muslims cant do that here, knock it off paul, i assure you Islam is the only truley valid system left after humanity has degraded everything else
    Zaid, United Kingdom

    No Farid, you and all Muslims like you are not integral part of British society as any one else. All the other minority groups don't show off their medieval way of dressing, the cruel way of butchering animals or oppressing women, the intolerance against anything which is not muslim and therefore it makes you the only and true fundamentalists. This is why we will never perceive you as integral part of British society but rather like a burden to endure.
    Paul, Aberdeen, United Kingdom

    I am a British Muslim of Bangladeshi origin.I feel Britain is my home and consider my self as British as much as I am a Muslim. However, my question is this to those who pose and question Muslims about thier identity - WHY does it become an issue and WHY is this question posed if your a Muslim? Why not question the Jews, Siekhs, Hindus, Bhudists or even immigrant Christians. What makes us Muslims any different from them. We are an integral part of Birtish society as much as any one else in UK.
    Farid , Swansea, United Kingdom

    salam im kashma from malaysia.Well i think all muslim around the world should work together and plz avoid greedy from ur self ..we must work together and in the same time respect ppl (other religion n they will respect us too...
    kashma, kuala lumpur, Malaysia

    salam im kashma from malaysia.Well i think all muslim around the world should work together and plz avoid greedy from ur self ..we must work together and in the same time respect ppl (other religion n they will respect us too...
    kashma, kuala lumpur, Malaysia

    Andrew Ipswich: 2 things following your comment. firstly, all Muslim countries today are non Islamic and are run by greedy, Machiavellian rulers and cronies using Islam for their own benefit. That's why we're trying to get rid of them. The last true Islamic state (Caliphate) was the Ottoman empire that stretched from East to West.

    Secondly, if freedom is ones capacity to exercise choice: what better choice is there than to worship the Creator rather than the disparing man-made laws?
    Umm Sulayman, London, United Kingdom

    Fine Anon, that's true. However, as far as Islam is concerned, we aren't talking about a religion, in the same way of christianity which can be separated by society much more than Islam due to western previous history. Beside the finger-pointing comes more by Muslims who impose their rule of conducts in our society, from code of dressing to diet and even cruel ways to butcher animals. Having Muslim friends is personal. These issues can become problematics for society taken in a general sense.
    Paul, Manchester, United Kingdom

    Good and bad exist in all parts of the world. People are individuals and need to bejudged as such. Whether black/ white,Muslim/Christian, we are all individuals and there is good and bad in all groups so why the simplistic grouping/stereotyping of one other?

    Sadly, comments like those made by R. Newsome, calling all Muslims "genetically flawed," "second-class citizens," show that racism/fascist hatred still exist but I'm sure his views do not reflect those of all
    Caucasian people.

    Anon, London, United Kingdom

    Catherine, found you comments interesting. Am surprised that people don't seem to realise that religion is about spirituality rather than political wrangling. Finger-pointing/ seeking to place blame is a rather pointless exercise as abuses of power occur all over the world and no-one can point the finger at anyone else as no-one is perfect.

    Am Muslim and British. Some of my best friends have been Christians. Surprises me that Muslims and Christians argue when they have so much in common.

    Anon, London, United Kingdom

    I agree, Paul. The Islamic culture is too far removed from the British one. And the concept of "ummah" ensures that Muslims have loyalties to a fellow Muslim before a fellow compatriot. So all you Muslims with British passports. You're either British in heart, soul and loyalty or you're a parasite/hypocrite leeching off a country you despise. If you're the latter, leave this country or endure a lifetime of marginalisation or "Islamophobia". Those who put Britain before your religion - Welcome!
    Katy Benning, United Kingdom

    I think the request for more muslim schools from muslim academics is a disgrace. There are already 140 of them, practicing the genre exclusion and implementing their medieval way of dressing. I reckon that this will divide our society more. It's fair to have cultural awareness but things like that will definetly enphasize some stereotypes. Non-muslims will see Islam as a way of segregating genres and as a big force to oppose within our own society.
    Paul, Manchester, United Kingdom

    You know what? If I lived in a country that had been host my family for less than 3 generations, I'd be very careful about insulting the idigenous population, especially if I hail from a culture/religion that is the total opposite of my new country. Muslims wonder why they are treated like outsiders? Because they act like it. Those who have issues with the way this infidel land is run, go - just go. Returning to your ancestral home will suit you as you so love to cling to old customs & loyalties
    Katy Benning, United Kingdom

    Somalia? How about Sudan? Look what Muslims do in Sudan: bombarding the black people in the south who fight with spears in order to steal oil from their territory and sell it to the Westerners. How hypocritics Muslims are!!!
    Johnny, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I have found the mention of somalia very interesting here. This is a country that the USA tried to impose peace on but which failed much to the delight of many muslims. Since then no muslim country or movement have bothered to try and help the people who suffer every single day. Can muslims do anything constructive or is it that their only talent as a people is to be Anti something? I would love to see the Arab league or other Muslim organisations actually doing something about their "world"
    Gordon, London, United Kingdom

    Further to Umm sulayman.You say the West need to convince that freedom is great and then mention Iraq,Somalia and Afghanistan-not adverts for free democratic states.Argentina was a dictatorship until recently so is a very young democracy trying to build itself.I can't convince you freedom is the best but you only need to compare the great democracies of the world and their institutions to countries run by religious clerics.Why are people emigrating to the West from these states-not vice versa?
    andrew, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Umm sulayman,if you have read all my comments on here you will know I haven't been reactionary and sarcy. What is freedom? Freedom is my capacity to exercise choice.This can be my beliefs what I want to wear or how I live my life as long as it doesn't impinge upon the freedom of others or harm them.It also means that I can do all of these things without being oppressed or held in detention.Do I really need to explain why this system is so favourable? What would you rather see?
    andrew, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Sounds interesting, I think I have better work to do than wasting my time here arguing about my Identity. You guys need to wake up.
    M Rayhan, Sylhet, Bangladesh

    Question 4 Andrew Ipswich; I can see U have lot of faith in freedom and secularism. Will you explain 1. What is freedom? 2. Why do you believer freedom is good? Western govs have failed to convince us freedom is great. This is evident from egs: iraq, Afghanistan, somalia even non Muslim countries like Argentina, free market economy have failed. You however still believe that freedom is the way forward for Muslim so, do convince us intellectually rather than make reactionary and sarcy comments.
    Umm sulayman, London, United Kingdom

    Thanks Yusef-much appreciated! We do read like a double act-we can go stage together!Anyway, you are right, good manners is all that is needed eg a state that separates religion from government.
    andrew, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Islam is very simple faith. it means submissive or peace. May Allah SWT shower all of us with peace, protection, patience and happiness. Ameen
    Ibraheem, buckinghamshire, United Kingdom

    Assalam alaikum to everyone, you guys Andrew & MULLAH Hafeezud Din have just cracked me up. I haven't laughed or enjoyed exchanges for ages. I've had a lot of uni work & exams. You both would make a great double act. Anyhow, with regards to the problems at the moment,it does not matter what a person is. i'd help andrew & Hafeez. Good manners is what enables anyone 2 live together. unfortunately theres lot of ignorance on both 'sides'.For every criticism i've made of west, same 4 muslims.balance
    yusuf, London, United Kingdom

    I would ask all law abiding Muslims throughout Iraq and the wider world to pay attention to the report that is now exposing the Daily Mirror and its Editor, Piers Morgan for the disgraceful manner in which he and his paper alleged that British Troops were currently involved in abusing prisoners in their charge whilst serving in Iraq.

    This paper has been proved to have published faked and untrue events of that nature. We British would be ashamed if it had been any other way!
    Alex M Forman
    Alexander McLelland Forman, Kirkcaldy - Fife, United Kingdom

    I dident go to war nither did i send anyone. yet you say i did?
    can any one understand why you say this? you say i killed how?
    all i see is hatred comming form islam? why is that all it is? if you hate the country leave but try peace. all we see is muslim killing muslim and you blaming everyone else? are you that shallow? where is your God in all this helping you kill? i think not. i think it is men who dont want to think
    andrew, london, United Kingdom

    non-muslims ahve never given muslism peace, you have STARTED YET ANOTHER WAR and killed tens of thousand sof muslimsa nd failed in yuor war aims and just created more anger and this anger grows, THEN DURING THIS WAR you turn to muslims and ask, why are we angry, why has our nationalism gone, why dont we love our country, I was born here im not going anywhere but i dont like you anymore after i see what you have done in iraq all those thousands dead after we beggd you not to go to war
    Reality, United Kingdom

    I was bor and raised in a predominatly muslims country. Thre, we accepted them, but they never accepted us. Why is this? A Christian accepts a mulim, but a muslim will never accept a Christain? Why is this? We offer yiou peace, but you never accept it. Why? We belive you, but you never believe us. Why? We are trutful to you, but you are devious to us. Why? We allow muslims teachings in our countries (which we shoul not), but you dont. Why? You have a choice of leaving, why dont you?
    Peter Lumaj, New York City, United States

    Many contributors say they are not British but Muslims born in Britain. Fine. They practice their own belief, customs and culture and do not have loyalty or contribute to the wellbeing of the wider community. OK.
    They associate with either their country of origin, ancestry or the Muslim Nation. Great.
    They accuse the British of colonising their countries and behaving in the same fashion. Probably true.
    The British were kicked out of their countries as the Muslims will be kicked out of ours!
    Tancred, London, United Kingdom

    to those who will listen:

    Salvation lies in Communication. The West must listen, and those who despise the West must listen, and those who wish for peace on earth must listen. Listen to your enemy, find out why you have become opposed, and if you have the strength to save eachother from yourselves.

    Your common enemy is your desire to destroy eachother. This serves only one. It is this that you must fight. Stand together against it. Share the land, and when you see that you are one yo
    ., ., Andorra

    An etymological link between the words "mosque" and "mosquito" is improbable. Mosquito comes from the Latin "musca" meaning a fly, whereas "mosque" is derived from the Arabic masjid. The Italian form of this word "moschea" is closer to the original Arabic. Arabic, a semitic languge, has few links with the Indo European group to which Latin belongs so a common root is very unlikely.
    Nigel, London, United Kingdom

    WRONG,Ian from Cumbria. I don't preach in a Mosque, I preach in a MASJID. Mosque is a word derived from a spanish word mosquito during the CRUSADE. I don't need power; there is only ONE supreme power and is NOT USA nor UK, but, Almighty Allah Taa'la!

    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, BIRMINGHAM, United Kingdom

    Human beings have a myriad of overlapping loyaties and allegencies. Devout Christians would put loyalty to their faith above loyalty to their country so it is not surprising to hear many British muslims say the same thing.

    What is worrying is the apparent belief in some cults that there is a conspiracy against all muslims, that the massacre of innocent non-muslims is somehow the only way to correct it and that loyalty to their faith cannot be reconciled with loyalty to their country.
    Nigel, London, United Kingdom

    I believe first and forthmost as truely Muslim. I support any country who are Truely Muslim country. I don't believe be british culture.Howevery British society are very good poeple as ordinary society but government and police services are racist. I would not advice any truely muslim persons to come in UK whether to live or to work
    Mohamed, London, United Kingdom

    Practice tolerance, love and understanding and in time more and more people will be drawn towards you. We all want to be happy. There is a lot of injustice in the world but reacting with fear and aggression clouds the moral argument for what is right and fair. Look at Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. Even if it doesn't directly work with the Israeli's it will motivate the World much more than repeated suicide bombings. It will leave them with no clear moral excuses at all-not even self-defence...
    Adam, Does it matter?, United Kingdom

    Ian, your comments my friend are lost onme their are many things still unanswered from the tradegy of Paris? Respect others opinions whether you accept them or not. J Starbuck do wear a kilt and eat haggis? I find it extremely offensive that you have and underlying view which is to the far right. Are you related to MR N Griffen or Mr Le pen? Why did we the British invade other countries in a colourful colonial past? Was that democracy? was that freedom? was that repression? Wake up!...
    Peter, Cumbria, United Kingdom

    I believe that everyone is entitled to believe as they wish as long as it doesn't harm others. I often get the impression from Muslims however, that I (and anyone else who is not a Muslim) is wrong, even evil somehow. This is what saddens me the most. Thankfully I live in a Western society where there is freedom of worship, should that really be taken away in the name of Allah?
    Richard, London, United Kingdom

    What absurdity from Mullah Hafeezud Din. The Royal Descent goes through Charles, not Diana. If she was pregnant the child would not be heir to the British Crown. You preach in a mosque you say. You preach fantasy then, fantasy which shows your lust for power and prestige.
    Ian, Cumbria, United Kingdom

    Yousif ali, it is not me making wild numeric claims - where do you get your figures? I am certainly not abusive, I just find it intolerable that anyone of any colour or creed wanting to live in my homeland abuses its freedoms and its own indiginous people. The claim your parents claim here for 'our' benefit is clearly ridiculous - your parents came to a liberal country to improve their economic and living standards, and often to avoid repression by their own countrymen/governments.
    J Starbuck, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Andrew/Starbuck, perhaps you should tell what figures you believe show how many muslims died in the wars (better still it might be interesting to show how many the empire killed as well).

    Starbuck, you are correct about France etc however that is not the topic here. I find it disappointing that rather than be grateful for what the muslim community has provided your country you are ungrateful and abusive - not far removed from the BNP.
    Our parents came here to support your hospitals etc.
    yousif ali, london, United Kingdom

    Assallamu-Alaikum ( peace be upon you )

    I consider myself as a muslim, first and foremost, where i come from is irrelevant. I am most definetly not a British muslim but a muslim living in Britain. I don't ascribe to the corrupt values thoughts of this society. Some people ascribe to the view that if we don't like it here then why don't we leave. Simply because i was born here. Also, at this moment in time there isn't a country which is implementing Islam in its entirety. We need to interact.
    Saghir, United Kingdom

    MULLAH Hafeezud Din - correct first time, you ARE talking double Dutch.The world would love to see your 'proof'. Lets see it stand up to scrutiny. I think it is me who will be resting my case. And by the way, I most certainly do not agree with the things that Blair and Bush have done.
    andrew, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    British Indian Muslim. Reasonable freedom, lively intellectual,cultural and literary atmosphere.
    Apart from people reading the Guardian and the Independent, gross ignorance of islamic, arabic and third world culture.
    Despair of extreme right wing labour administration, newspapers such the Telegraph, the Daily Express and the Mail. Longing for birth place, but failure of my nation to live upto its ideals.
    World is my home.

    abdul rupani, luton, United Kingdom

    Andrew, Ipswich, perhaps I'm talking DOUBLE dutch or you're NOT even trying to understand me, I said, I had prove about Diana! I'm going to rest my case, ignore you as from now, probably 'coz you graduated from the school as Bush and Blair - NOT listening!
    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Yousif ali, as a history graduate I, like Andrew would love to know your bibiographic references regarding your historic claims. As so many here are obviously intent on constantly dredging up centuries old grievances, perhaps we should start vilifying the French and Scandinavians, etc. for the repression and the racial and religious atrocities Normans & Vikings perpetrated in these Islands when they arrived uninvited! Or is that a luxury reserved only for other races with 'genuine' grievances?
    J Starbuck, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, your politics are derived from your beliefs.Unfortunately you have a wild set of beliefs born from distorted thought.This is not a criticism of Islam before you take it as such.You rant incorrectly about Diana without any proof other than your feeling of race persecution.Unfortunately I guess that the people you preach to also feel a sense of unjustice and persecution as well.Your wild unfounded ramblings will only fan the flames of their anger..or is that what you want?
    andrew, ipswich, United Kingdom

    It would be nice if you lived in the land of reality yousif. If you really think a white christian could be 'elected' in a muslim country. For a start real democracy doesn't exist and where it pretends to exist, people wouldn't vote for this person anyway. Just call me a realist and not a theorist on this one. Erm, point about more muslims dieing world war 2.Where do you get your figures for this? Commonwealth dead were of course high but it wasn't predominantly muslim. Don't twist the facts.
    andrew, ipswich, United Kingdom

    Andrew, Ipswich, I don't preach politics; (contributing on here is something I can't say in the Mosque),I simply preach the wonderful teachings of Islam and people do take me seriously; perhaps, you should attend one day and learn about the TRUE meaning of live.
    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, BIRMINGHAM, United Kingdom

    Ayub I hear you! We should have never invaded your country but we did so you could bring your balti's over to the UK. Good food at a cheap price. J Starbuck you live in a world which is up north somewhere?... Your type of democracy isnt wanted in Iraq. Lets get out and leave the muslim brothers and sisters sought themselves out. They are adults and people and do not need outside interference. Bush and Blair are going out to fight in Falluja..... yeah lets get real blair is bush's poodle...
    Rod , United Kingdom

    There is nothing stopping a white christian being elected in a muslim country. If you wish go and stand for Parliament in some.

    Secondly your history is a little rusty. More muslim asian/africans died defending your country and empire than your own indigenous people in the second world war.

    You should read a few history books rather than the Express, BNP news it must be embarassing for you to be told by immigrants your country's history.
    yousif ali, london, United Kingdom

    Mullah Hafeezud Din - again you are wrong and ranting.J Starbuck points out way but misses your other wrong point.If Diana was pregnant with Dodhy's child it would not be heir to the throne! It has to be a descendant of Charles to be a potential monarch.What worries me is do the people you preach to actually take you seriously.
    andrew, Ipwich, United Kingdom

    Mullah Hafeezud Din, my apologies -I forgot that only Muslims have a grasp on reality. Clearly you have proof of Diana's murder which no-one else has, perhaps you should let the authorities have it. Re-read my posting - Tariq Aziz is not a white Briton (& I doubt was elected anyway) and I STILL very much doubt a white British born person will ever be elected to any position of power in any Muslim country in the way we allow Muslims to be in here in the UK.
    J A Starbuck, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    To all those white British people who say to the Muslims to get back to where they came from, if they dont like it here, I ask them who invited you to our country (India and Pakistan )some 200 years ago. Did you adopt our language, our culture etc?. Did you hell aslike. You spoke your language, you dressed in arrogant ways, and you treated us as second hand citizens in our country. So dont tell us what to do here. We work our arse off and make a lot of contribution. This is our country as well
    Ayub Khan, Leeds, United Kingdom

    i mean no offence.
    being a Muslim living in britain to me means a glum, numbing, and positively nausiating at times! at others, it means despair, and pity, though i am greatful for living comfortably.
    abdul, Reunion


    >what british Muslim identity? is there a seperate 'british' or 'french' to being a muslim?
    where are the sura's and hadith in this site!

    abdul, Reunion

    J Starbusk of Glasgow, you're living in a fantasy world. Come down to reality! Iraq is a Muslim country; Tariq Aziz is a CATHOLIC and he was the Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq. Let me put you straight, why was Diana killed? Because she was carrying a Muslim child of Dodhy, and the Queen and her royals were not in favour of a Muslim child being heir to the throne. So, who does hold racist views?
    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, BIRMINGHAM, United Kingdom

    you should stop the war please you will make more disaster to the universe and people dying
    from hassan farah osman
    hassan, somail, Somalia

    Clash of Ignorance

    Kilroy was airing views of racist elements in British society. His column was an idiotic rant. The West as it exists today is the product of Islamic science, civilisation, culture and learning. Western history is related to Islam. Westerners are not well informed about history. It is not just Robert Kilroy-Silk who rants against Arab culture and Muslim faith. Prejudice against Islam has become a disease and attacks on Masajid and Muslim cemeteries are now routine. His
    Iftikhar, London, United Kingdom

    Reading some of the rabid postings here saddens me. Why do many Muslims stay in a country whose indiginous people they hate?
    In how many muslim countries can a white Briton be elected into positions of government or become a member of their peerage, as Muslims (or anyone of any creed or ethnic origin) can in this country? How dare you you accuse us of racism! Moreover, to those who claim they are as British as me I ask, how many of your ancestors lived and died protecting this land?
    J Starbuck, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Saheed,yet another fanatic with a chip on his shoulder about the west.Live in the here and now.What happened in the past happened in the context of the culture of the time.Do we we want to talk about the forgotten slave industry?Muslim massacres of Christians in the past?Atrocities carried out by both sides in the crusades? What about the conquests of the arabs in the middles ages forcing islam on people?The occupation of Greece?Get on with your life and live in the present, not the middle ages.
    andrew, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Saheed, if you are living in the UK then you have waged this 'illegal' war (and yes, it was illegal) against Iraq, and also against Afghanistan, every bit as much as the rest of us. If you pay tax then you bought the bombs too. Millions of Brits took to the streets in the biggest protests in UK history - are you forgetting that? The British wanted the Iraqi war no more than the Spanish did and I hope Blair will suffer at the next election for not listening to us just as the Spanish PM did.
    Catherine, Manchester, United Kingdom

    Most muslims here are born here this is OUR country, its not liek you people went to australia or SA to learn the culture of the aborigini or african NO u slaughtered them & have been continuing to slaughter MILLIONS since then you have waged YET ANOTHER ILLEGAL war that makes you criminals you have NEVER stopped commiting these crimes the deaths and massacre of thousands & thousands ends any respect & nationalism muslims have thats UR fault stop interfering poverty is better then en-slavment
    Saheed, United Kingdom

    a lot of muslims living in Britain are abusing a state that gives them complete freedom and equal oppurtunities that would not be available to them in many countries Britain has always embraced people who come here from more repressed regimes but it seems to many non muslims that quite a few muslims are willing to bite the hand that feeds it, I fail to understand why someone who is so opposed to western values chooses to stay why not move to afganistan for instance and make that country a wonder
    paul, liverpool, United Kingdom

    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, you are irresponsible and a liar to say "Muslims are the only people who are NOT protected by the Religious Discrimination Laws". Are you trying to stir trouble? Everyone is protected by this law and the liberal left now go so far as to discriminate against Christians! Not that I care because I think religion is a concept that promotes a medieval way of thinking.

    andrew, ipswich, United Kingdom

    Let me address a few wild assertions made by people on this site. The west is after oil: the west buys it for a fair price,where would oil nations be without the west.Muslims are treated unfairly and are poverty stricken:so is any part of society that does not get an education, plenty of whites live in a ghetto as well.The west kills muslims:the west set out to kill military targets and unfortunately innocents are sometimes there.Islamic extremists set out to kill innocents eg NY and Madrid
    and price, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Amazingly this site exists. In Great Britain we have clothed and fed you and for what, to be informed that we are racist and facist. In this dark age of injustice for muslims you have only yourselves to blame. Great Britain has a majority of Christians who oppose your ways but yet you rub it in our faces with your high demands and towering Mosques. The Black people assimulated but Muslims refuse to Westernise themselves.
    As a White British descendant I say "GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY, NOW!"
    Anon, Romford, United Kingdom

    I am born of Pakistani parentage and am proud to be a British Muslim. I absolutely condemn the terrorists who claim to be muslims.
    I would fight for Britain against any terrorists anywhere in teh world. That said, the Palestinian cause is not one of terrorism, and the West must help resolve that.
    tan, london, United Kingdom

    Zamzam, it's comments like yours that make me realise that Islam will only ever rule this country over my, and (I suspect) many other peoples', dead body.

    If you don't see yourself as being British (or English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish) then get out.

    Fran, London, United Kingdom

    Muslism cant live in muslim countries because so many of our leaders are simpley supported by the west to achive their aims, saddam was such a leader, I was born in the UK SO WHAT what does that mean when i die what will it matter BUT i am a Muslim that means everthing when i die i will die a muslim Muslims are slaughtered and the Uk waged an ILLEGAL war NOW you have the gaul to ask us WHY? Muslims arent natioanlistic whats your problem, dont you get it u kill us so we lose our natuionalism
    Saheed, United Kingdom

    It makes me sick that the very people who enjoy the very freedoms that our country has to offer, abuse and hate our wonderful land! If they don't like Democracy and Freedom, then simply go home. It's really as simple as that. Is what I say racist, no, it's practical! If I don't like a country or it's people, why would I stay?

    If you don't like our land leave it. I think far majority of British Muslims are law abiding and they are welcome!

    Those extremist should be found and dealt with.
    simon, Luton, United Kingdom

    this is to NIck! look i understand ur argument but u must consider the hatred u ppl have willingly caused, amongst muslims across the globe.IT is ok for BLair and bush to kill masses.. this is not regarded as terrorismm. However muslims are labelled terrorists. well y because they have been provokedd. No muslim is going to sit there being saddened by the deaths of muslims in the middle east.i believe u have limited knowledge of islam because, islamic philosophy and science has improved ur lives.
    nadia, manchester, United Kingdom

    this is to NIck! look i understand ur argument but u must consider the hatred u ppl have willingly caused, amongst muslims across the globe.IT is ok for BLair and bush to kill masses.. this is not regarded as terrorismm. However muslims are labelled terrorists. well y because they have been provokedd. No muslim is going to sit there being saddened by the deaths of muslims in the middle east.i believe u have limited knowledge of islam because, islamic philosophy and science has
    nadia, manchester, United Kingdom

    The question invites criticism. I am British-Pakistani (the two nationalities that I can lay claim to) and I am a Muslim (which is my faith not my nationality).

    Rather than try and follow the agenda of others, why can't we set the agenda and find ways in encouraging our youth to be more comfortable with their identities as Muslims who are also British?
    S, London, United Kingdom

    I agree with Catherine, dialogue is the way forward, even the Prophet (PBUH) had such agreements with jews and chrisitians. We should learn from his example. As for Al-Qaeda, Bush and Blair, they are just as bad as each other. The British have always enforced a divide and conquer rule on weaker countries, they are the reason for the conflict in Palestine. Bush is no different, plus he really wants the oil. Al-Qaeda are not muslims, killing innocents brings them to the same level as Bush et al.
    Riz, London, United Kingdom

    Selina, Zamzam & Yasmine; your comments show you as independent, individual, prejudice and bigotry free thinkers, open to positive debate/interaction.

    Selina; "u cannot be a muslim and accept British values"? Should this problem arise it can be solved by making the choice/effort to live somewhere with no British values.

    Zamzam. If you are not British, where, why and how did you get this passport? Have you broken the law ?

    Yasmine; Yes, but have an intelligent point to make ?
    Person, The World, Andorra

    Al Khalid the western world is certainly not against India or Indians. Yes Britain colonised India but who do you think started it first it is your Bloody muslim rulers who started it. You took away Hindus land the present day pakistan, bangladesh what more do you want Kashmir what is next? Why do you think there is strong hatred aginst muslims because of People like Babar and Aurangazeb who destroyed indian culture and slaughtered hindus go take a look at history book before reading you koran
    bharath, Gillingham, United Kingdom

    If your are born or raised up in the "west" and Britain you are part of the "west" and are British regardless what you "feel."

    If you do not feel part of this society then you should not be a hypocrite... Leave. There are many muslims who are a shining example and have shown one that one can succeed and live peaceful in the "west" and numerous non-Islamic countries around the globe.

    The comments one reads on this site are a perfect advert for the BNP. What will non-muslims think?

    William Ang'awa, Sunderland, United Kingdom

    I would just like to say that with all that is going on in world now with the muslims its pretty scary! you all come over like its an obsession and the most important thing in your lifes,To take a innocent life young or old because of a phrase in a book which seems to me not to many understand and turn it to suit onesself,If you dont like our way of life in uk,what you doing here? I like many others do feel scared of the future because of this obsessive faith,it will all end in big trouble.
    jo, york, United Kingdom

    The entire world is my home, Al Hamdu Lillah. Islam emphasises on honouring the land you live on. But, can I really call myself BRITISH when Muslims are the only peoplw who are NOT protected by the Religious Discrimination Laws in UK?
    MULLAH Hafeezud Din, BIRMINGHAM, United Kingdom

    I love this country, a divide is appearing, muslim v west, its ridiculess, man must end war or war will end man! we r all gods creation! equall. the americans dont help matters with the gung ho approach. where do i c the world in 20 years? i dont think i wanna be around, its frightning, very! i love great britain.
    mohamed chambers, London , United Kingdom

    IN respect of my identity i count my self muslim and then British national , my true identity is in Islam , Islam is my identity ,i look at the news saying british national of pakistani decident that proof everthing that they would never accept us as a citizent.
    WAhid Ullah , London , United Kingdom

    As a Sikh born here, I am proud to be called a British Sikh. Britain is one of the few countries in the world which gives equal regard to all sexes, religions, races and creed, not forgetting the right to free speech. It is these values which Muslims should realise allow them to prosper,and spread their faith. How on Earth can they then have such resentment towards Britain? Can they name any Muslim country which would give non muslims the same equal rights as they enjoy here?
    Davin, London, United Kingdom

    Selina, please state the main characteristics of (a) being a muslim and (b) being British that you say oppose each other? What are the 'British values' you speak of exactly? And in what way do 'muslim values' contradict these that other religions such as Christianity do not?
    Catherine, Manchester, United Kingdom

    i have one one word for you .lslam lslam lslam ok. don't forget your muslim
    yasmine, london, United Kingdom

    i got a british passport but am not british. am muslim
    zamzam, london, United Kingdom

    being muslim or british has two diffrent identities and the two oppose each other u cannot mix islam with kufr, u cannot be a muslim and accept british values.
    selina, United Kingdom

    Catherin some humans are ignorant and hostile regardless of their backgrouns some are kind and noble regardless also. There is alot of deatha nd misery in the world this is the source of terrorism the injustice, the pain & oppression, MOST people woudl NEVER join Al Qaeda but they look at their TV's and see Muslims being killed in Bosnia Palestine, Iraq Chehcniya and thye feel anger & pain Al-Qaeda come along and say rise up witht he help of the west Al Qaeda wins because they inspire revenge
    Waheed, United Kingdom

    Waheed, I agree with what you are saying. What happened on Sept 11th was designed to provoke the west into attacking the middle east - thus polarising east and west, the muslim and non-muslim world. Like the suckers they are, Bush and Blair obliged accordingly. Now we see increased bigotry and hatred in the UK between muslim and non-muslim citizens, such as that expressed by James from Leeds. People like this are also giving the terrorists what they want. People like me are defying them.
    Catherine, Manchester, United Kingdom

    Terrorists have a plan make 1.5billion and growing Muslims of the world hate non-muslims, they do this simply they bait the west and then people like Bush and Blair commit more atrreocities and KILL more people then the terrorists ever could, the reactions to these deathsa nd destruction & oppression caused by western policies then achives the terrorist aims of making the Muslims of the planet shout out in anger and remorse, Increasingly the acts of hypocricy by Bush etc has turned millons again
    Waheed, United Kingdom

    After the last comments I think we must realize that before the vast white majority of British people of U.K., it's more the Muslim minority that we have to protect from terrorists and so-called islamic militants. Can't you see that they are turning us against each others exploiting our irrational fears? Here we are talking about our real 'Britishness' when we should try to unite all and deal together against the threat of any terrorism, especially from our political leadears.
    James, Manchester, United Kingdom

    There are even people like this Catherine who thinks to make a positive interaction with muslims in Britain. What else do you want to do after they took our country away? They enjoy total freedom over here, to the point of betray our country and justifying (for some, helping) the terrorists which are plaguing us. This is out of order!!
    James, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Person from Andorra, I've seen a mixture of views here but only non-Muslims with a negative view of Muslims appear to have been attracted so far.

    Regarding British Muslim identity, I feel uneasy with the need people have to identify with any group in particular. I'm an individual. I'm British, but I'm as different to the next British person as anyone here might be. Identifying to a group too strongly can create an "us and them" divide - be proud to be you but respect others for being them.
    Catherine, Manchester, United Kingdom

    Catherine from Manchester. You sought positive debate / interaction with Muslims but were disappointed to see many non-Muslims appear to have sought out the forum for an abusive slanging-match?

    Are you familiar with the saying "It takes Two To Tango"?

    Given the opinions expressed it appears some posters don't want your positive debate / interaction.

    They'd rather you submit and surrender to the complete set of their beliefs.

    Are you a "White Liberal"? Why not try The Guardian?
    Person, The World, Andorra

    Following the Madrid attacks (and assuming these were linked to AQ) as a non-Muslim white Brit I thought I'd seek a forum like this for positive debate/interaction with muslims. I think positive interaction between us is the only way to move forward and to overcome the fear and hatred and bloodshed seen on both sides in the world today. I'm very disappointed to see that many other non-Muslims appear to have sought out this forum for the opposite reason - for an abusive slanging-match.
    Catherine, Manchester, United Kingdom

    i think now that the guantanamo bay prisoners are released mashallah and now they have released their stories on how they were treated the UN and international organisations should look more closely into the human rights and standards on guantanamo bay. i cant believe our muslim brothers are being treated like that. what jamal said on his interview was enough to make me even go to jihad.
    Ali Al-hakim, luton, United Kingdom

    Mohammed you have already tarnished your own religion.Britain does not belong to WASP's anymore a lot of us Ex pats talk about finding that plug hole and pulling it out so the whole country will sink with all you stupid religious creeps with it.
    Rik, Breda, Netherlands

    ASSALAMUALAIKUM, Im a muslim & proud to be a muslim.Iwant 2be knowned&lookedat as a muslim.The word British does not make me happy or sad.Im happy to be called British MUSLIM becoz of d word MUSLIM and not british.Muslims shouldnt worry about being british,french etc coz dat would make muslims into groups of citizenship. Muslims all around the world are of one race,one family,one body,under one flag............... ISLAM.
    eEnam, west london, Albania

    I'm a Muslim and proud to be in Britain as well. Theres no need to say your Muslim or British first or last. Everyones everything! I got my religion and the country that I live in too.
    imran, London, United Kingdom

    The point of my previous messages being (cos this silly box only allows 500 characters): Muslims shouldn't really be bothered about nationalism rather focus on their Deen, not culture. And whilst we are here, we should be setting an example. They do not force us into fornication and sin, they do not impose Shirk upon us, and they allow us to practice our Deen (by law) so we have a binding contract to be the best of citizens, not leeches of the system. I you have the ability, then make the Hijrah
    Al-Muwahhid al-Britaanee, london, United Kingdom

    Asalamu 3ala mani tabi3al huda.
    Im actually not british or anything to do with the U.K but I am a MUSLIMA which I am very proud of, being proud of nationality is of no use, coz it will not help you in this world or in the hereafter. As a young MUSLIMA I feel outraged and saddened by the events in the Middle East! But Muslims shall not dispair in Gods mercy and God always fulfills his promise. May God help those Muslims in Palestine,Iraq,Chechnya and all over the world.Ameen.

    Ma3a Salama
    Marriya, New Zealand

    I am one of the most victimised person in Britain, through racial discrimination. Britain to me represents the most helpful and yet the most racist country anywhere.

    Nasir, Lancashire, United Kingdom

    As a British Asian and a Muslim, born and bred in Britain, i have to say that i have found it hard to juggle the different cultures that i am expected to assimilate. Sometimes it can be a struggle between my private and public domain over being "just like everyone else" and a "good muslim girl" however i still enjoy the opportunity of coming from a culturally diverse background as being a British Muslim is indeed a new phenomenon and I suppose I am one of the first generations to experience it.
    Huma, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Muslims critisize the West although most are very recent immigrates---then they act all pious--if I felt about the West the way these people do I would never stay--they are prostitutes out for money---thats all. I dont need to be lectured by prostitutes who work freely for people they not only hate but our regarded by as second class citizens. You dont deserve pride because you are whores and hypocrites!!!!! I am human---you are genetically flawed and deserve the ever increasing HATRED!!!****!!!
    Robert Newsome, Round Lake Beach, United States

    Steve in response to your question I know many white colleagues and friends who swear on their Christian faith that they are telling the truth does that mean the archbishop is a liar or Jesus lied? Lies by human beings whatever their race does not imply that the faith is to blame! I certainly wouldn't lie and put the blame on my faith! I cannot defend people that lie but don't tarnish the reputation of my faith!.
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Hi everybody!!!!]
    Im an arab and will always be arabic...Though i love england and i think people here are much more polite than any other people ive seen....
    I disagree totally with their policies towards us arabs in the middle east but i dont think we should blame all the british for that....
    omar, Manchester, Lebanon

    Living on the Kent coast I ( unfortunately ) have numerous opportunities to interact with ethnic Albanians. Something I have noted about them is that they are very prepared to swear on their Muslim faith that they are telling the truth about something when I know for a fact that they are lying. Personally I would never dream of cheapening my religious beliefs in such a way. I would be grateful for some feedback from Muslim readers of this site. Is this normal in other Muslim communities?
    Steve Hughes, Kent coast, United Kingdom

    Honesty is the best plicy.
    Best wishes,
    Qadeer CHaudhry
    Qadeer Hussain, Kotli AK , Pakistan

    I can't say I see myself as british. I would like to but at this moment in time, I don't have faith in its system, because of its war against Iraq, and the fiasco of the Hutton enquiry and a lot of things. I am a Muslim in Britain.

    What makes me proud living in UK is I took the opportunity of studying, work, building this country. I think we have it good but England is not my home, nor my country in Yemen, nor Saudi. Home? Is where I belong, with Allah, and I miss home.
    Adam Taha, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    live by our rules.would a western woman be allowed to wear a bikini in a arab state.or would that offend their way of life in their country.or can muslims only be offended where every one is in a democracy
    john smith, derby, United Kingdom

    Al Khalid, I am afraid that as much as I respect your passion you certainly don't know history. When the Great Muslim armies invaded other countries such as India they certainly weren't invited. There is well documented cases of forced conversions..not against Christian or Jews as this was prohibited but against those not of the book. You would do well to understand history first as this is an important part of what today is about.

    Mark, London, United Kingdom

    I have always consider myself to be a muslim by birth but never really practice it. Yet i have always known that islam is the right religon and after being too british for years i finally decided to be british muslim, this country is great and if one wants to be the way they wish they can achieve it under british democracy. the question is are we invading britan? the answer is no because being muslim is just being a good citizan, because having good morals make you a good citizan.
    abdel , London, United Kingdom

    i am a muslim in britain.i feel poud when i am free to make my own decisions in life. i feel despair when i feel homesick and the ppl backhome don't realise my position.i call home where there is peace and quietness ,safety and time to read and explore myself.
    komal, watford, United Kingdom

    The THIRD WORLD IS RAPED OF ITS RESOURCES so a western countries can grow rich dont disgrace the third world by making it seem like their situation is a self inflicted tragedy, if tey were rich then the west would suffer massivly, THATS THE PROBLEM democracy as an ideology will never save humanity because its connected to human corruption, capitalism and the nation state, YOU speak big words how Muslims shoud force their ideology BUT ALL YOU PEOPLE HAVE EVER DONE IS FORCE YOUR OWN UPON innocents
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    Mark Britain stole other people lands and heritages and then tried to force their own causing chaos, islam never did that most palces peopel ebcame muslim & then the area became a Muslim area, CONNIE Islam si the fastest growing faith in the world and MOST converts to islam are women, you exist & your minds are guided by society you are made a whore by the whims of society, Islam gives freedom to men, women & the individual hence islam spreads & grows & converts many women
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    me as a muslim living in Britain am very proud of it, i am pround of seeing myself as a muslim. I dont think that by living in Britain affects me. i see myself as a muslim a muslim a muslim!
    hassan, United Kingdom

    muslims scarfs should not be banned or any religious symbol
    rabia hussain, blackburn, United Kingdom

    Maria: I will take my time writing this message so you can understand. Apologise for the grammer hope you understand, firstly who cares if your mothers is a Brit i was talking about you and as for your sorry excuse at blaming Britain for dominating other nation suggest that i was correct in my observation towards you. As for what i was meant to say love, is that, Greeks who were born here(sellouts) are the same as Greeks born in different countries. They have no love of the country of birth
    Carl, Manchester, United Kingdom

    It is interesting that Al Khalid blames the British for the problems in Isreal/Palistine presumably because of the British Mandate and of the granting of Freedom to Pakistan/India in 1948. This is obviously a nice theory until you remember that had the Muslim invasion of the “Holy Land” in 634 or the Muslim Invasion of kashmir in the mid 12th century not taken place, then these problems would not exist today. I wonder where the line should be drawn? Is it better to look for solutions now?
    Mark, London, United Kingdom

    To Steve (London) and Joe, I admire you candour about the two-facedness of some Muslims (ie. selling alcohol etc). You are 100% right - the main problem with many Muslims in this country stem from their 'village' background, many of which are backward (eg. to marry in the caste or forced to marry cousins etc). Algeria & Turkey oppress the Muslims. Organisations such as the Arab League command as much respect in the West as a student society.
    Munir, Guildford, United Kingdom

    i would define my identity as 'british muslim', since ive lived in england all my life and my religion, islam shapes every aspect of my life. thefore the two words 'british muslim' pritty much sums me up at a very basic level.
    thank you
    rashida, n'ton, United Kingdom

    Maria, I support everything in your statement. You see when the British invaded countries and colonised them it wasn't seen as an occupation it was deemed conquering and clever. The British for decades have invaded countries and robbed them of there jewels! Nick god has dual nationality he holds a US & GB passport! As for Connie you have no idea about equality or Islam! How can you be a tolerant society if you fail to acknowlege other points of view! Islam is here to stay! U cant deport that!
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Carl: Firstly, mum is British, also your grammar is so bad that I really couldn`t understand half you were telling me.Greeks may not like Turkey because of the Ottoman Empire (they were dominating us). The Brits dominated other nations my love, not the other way around.If you don't support the return of the marbles, that's fine. Explain what in heavens you meant by:"...but you are elegance is Greek a bit like Australians and you know whats the problem is like over their." I'm waiting love.
    Maria, London, United Kingdom

    I have been harassed by many Muslim men who like to oppress and control women. This is sick and wrong. If you want to live in democracy and not get deported then you must abide by the laws in your country. This also includes how to dress. You must adapt and learn to honor, respect, and make women equal if not better than men or leave because you will not be tolerated for breaking our laws or trying to impose your own. If you want to live in safety you must act kind and safe or you'll be gone.
    Connie, Paris, France

    All the whining about Brit culture on this board is about as justified as Germans moving to China and complaining that it's too Chinese. These problems ALWAYS occur when one is not in one's ancestral/cultural home & the solution in these instances is simple - leave. I lived in France for 5 months. A great place but in the end it wasn't great enough. Did I stay & insult the place? Did I complain that it wasn't English enough? Did I expect it to meet me halfway culturally? No, I left. Do the same.
    Nick, United Kingdom

    Nick, Your are living a fairytale life in the UK! By the way education wasn'y started by the Brits check out your history- I forgot the school you went to taught history but you were too busy chatting to take any notice of the teacher! Tell me when and where did Democracy evolve? Since you know so much? The Brits are reknowned the world over as occupying forces who steal the jewels of the country they occupy when they leave and I support maria. Nick dont come and enjoy my cuisine & then complain
    Abdul, United Kingdom

    Maria darling you were born here but you are elegance is Greek a bit like Australians and you know whats the problem is like over their. This is the problem that Britain faces as well as religious devides, if individuals cannot understand who or what they are then thats their problem. The rest of us have to carry on with what we do, Greeks don't support Muslims alas Turkey! as for the ELGIN Marbles yeah what ever love.
    Carl, Manchester, United Kingdom

    YOUR God created Adam not mine. I believe in evolution, not fairy stories.However, as you believe I am responsible for the actions of my ancestors, I would like to say that I feel pride that we spread education, health care and vaccination programmes around the world. I didn't notice anyone else rushing to save the third world from it's own inadequacy. BTW, being British is not just about paying taxes. It is also subscribing to democracy, something I understand your religion rejects at its peril
    Nick, United Kingdom

    Nick your British but so what. God created Adam was he British? or was he a US cititizen? maybe he was a European? Why should I leave Britain my birthplace? If you were so good why did you raid the birthplace of my grandparents? Your level of islam shows when you write! Democracy my friend in your book is linked to racism. Don't tell me I am not as much British as you. I pay my taxes as much as you do. I contribute to society as much as you do? I respect your opinion but mate your lost!
    Abdul, United Kingdom

    My fault you hate me? Then leave Britain. These ideologies are too strongly divided to be conquered by mere passport Britishness. I'm ancestrally British, the vast majority of Muslims have been here less than 2 generations. If they hate "us", I suggest they go to a place where such division and anguish does not arise, at least not Islamically. I don't care that you "hate" me. Doesn't Islam reject democracy in favour of Sharia Law?If you hate me,it makes me all the more proud for being democratic
    Nick, United Kingdom

    Nick Muslims love Britain its the land of our Birth, what we hate is idiots like Blair and all who supported them over lies to kill and Muder 60,000 more muslims in iraq and plunge it into chaos to remove a dictator YOU supported for decades, YES I HATE YOU KNOW, gee mate why are you surprised, what did you think that you can launch illegal wars killing tens of thousands of innocent people and we will just sit here, its your fault we hate you now.
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    All you Muslims who feel little or no affinity to Britain or it's culture - go and live in the land of your parents. Without freedom of speech, freedom of movement, free medical care, free education,free housing and benefits, I guarantee you will be singing love songs about the so-called kufr Britain before the month is out.
    Nick, United Kingdom

    You will find Julian that contrary to what you are told the west does not believe if freedom of speech or indeed democracy. We have limits , what we need to look at is who is best to place limited on us. Is it man who is weak limited and needy. Or is it the one who creates us and know what is best for us
    Muahmmad, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Kilroy Silk. One reason why people choose to live here is because anyone ANYONE can say what they think . Now an MP has been sacked . Repression is on it's way..
    julian roe, northwich, United Kingdom

    As a a british born greek girl, I support the muslim community. You are as much british as I and many others are! Please I ask you to support the return of the parthenon marbles to greece for the olympics enough of the brits trying to steal others culture and history. greeks have always supported the palestinians, please help us and write to the gov. and museum, voicing your support! to those who are on Hajj, God bless you!!Thank you.
    Maria, London, United Kingdom

    Robert u r rite when u say we dont even practice our religion properly. but u r wrong about the actions of muslims. yes some Islamic militants r wrong because even in jihad it is wrong 2 kill women and children. But Israel and america have a war on Islam
    Mohammed Abdul Rahman Al haq Al Hussein , London, United Kingdom

    I was born in Great Britain so I am British. I was born to muslim parents and I try to follow the religion of Islam as best as I can so I am a muslim. Being a muslim means submitting to Allah and his laws, hence eating and drinking halal foods and drinks, dressing decently, looking after parents and family members and obeying the 10 commandments. How do I contribute to the British society?…..I am a law abiding citizen, I work and pay taxes, I help my neighbours and friends who are from different races and backgrounds, I do voluntary work in my spare time. I could go on and on but I am sure I contribute just as much to the British society as a non-muslim.
    Dilshad, United Kingdom

    Paul, When I wrote that I despair about muslims I was talking about palestine! Jews and muslims fight ing each other! I was talking about Kashmir! I suffer when humans suffer I work in Government on Policy so I very much understand current issues. The British is a tolerant society but I think you need to read up about Islam and muslims before you speak. You seem to have a lot to say yet your theories and views expressed about me are incorrect. I am British born here but I am a muslim in faith.
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Why are you all quarelling about stupid things. There is reason for everything. Each and every religion, i believe teaches almost the same thing but only practise it differently. I believe each and every religion in the world teaches us to be tolerant to each other not just inter religion. Islam is a passionate religion that teaches to be grateful for every single thing that god created. Those who you see killin & doin ungrateful things dont understand islam and therefore are just islam by name.
    Amir Ariff bin Abdul Rahim, Johor Bahru, Malaysia

    I am not Muslim. However, I am aghast at the French ruling over banning headscarves in public schools. I believe that my not being Muslim emboldens my belief because I have no 'reason' to be concerned, per se. For us 'regular' citizenry that remain open-minded, non-confrontational and progressive, overall. It is egregious that we lack a voice on such matters. We teach both our children that diversity is key to a purposeful existence. Please host an open forum for all to be heard.
    Gregory Hudgins, Sunland, United States

    WHEN has the colonisation stopped, when has your two faced foreihgn policy stopped, your actions kill millions, and you then turn around and ask us why we feel sickend by you, when YOUR people die by the Many millions or thousands you will Understand, but they dont you support wars & make speeches how they are just BUt it is OUR people who die we who are oppressed, Paul I dont want you to tolerate me, JUST DO NOTHING dont give weapons to dictators DONT interfer in other nations JUST DO NOTHING
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    STOP with your boring stuff about colonialism and oppression!!! That's history by now. Will you ever understand that without the western colonization our countries couldn't develop and your folks would not have had the chance to come here and raise you? When will you start to contribute to this society you are part too? Do you prefer the brutal governements of your countries of origin? Get lost then!!
    Mark, Bristol, United Kingdom

    Mohammed says he despairs when he sees Muslims in pain. He should despair when he sees ANY human in pain. Only then can he expect others to be tolerant to him.
    Paul, Middlesbrough, United Kingdom

    Al Khalid: "Hatred" is such an extreme and dangerous emotion. And the "revenge" you want also sounds very dangerous. No wonder so many people are deeply concerned about Muslim fanatics. How can you expect us to "tolerate" you???
    Paul, Middlesbrough, United Kingdom

    Islam is an ideology that has rules and regulations which cover all aspects of life.At the moment there are no Muslim countries in the world, only "so called Muslim countries".Most Western countries like England are more closer to practicing Islam i.e. look at their judical,health systems etc.I agree with many people that Muslims in their own countries and out of their countries do not understand Islam and therefore cannot practice it and as a result they give Islam a bad name.
    Ali, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Marina we hate the UK havign a foriegn policy which for centuries not decades has caused chaos and misery across the World, Palestine, kashmir only a few areas where Muslims are oppressed because of British forighn policy, Muslims feel this death & oppression in iraq etc in our Hearts and it causes us pain which turns to anger, which turns to hatred many if not most Britsh muslims still love our country BUT inside we have masses of anger at hypocrite politicans and governments & we want revenge,
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    To those fello English be they Muslim or not happy new year. To me anyone born here is English and I love it that English people who have parents from other backgrounds such as Hussain can captain our country. To those muslims here that don't like being british I ask you this. Do you hate being able to practice your religion, do you hate being able to dress as you like, do you hate having the freedom to say what you want? or do you hate having a say in government? Just let us know it would help!
    Marina, London, United Kingdom

    Feeling British isnt important.
    Invariably any label that unites
    us with some divides us from
    others. That goes for Muslims or
    Christians too. The only label we
    all have is that of people, but that
    is the important one. It's that
    label that should draw us
    together, so when someone in
    Iraq is suffering it should
    generate the same feelings as it
    does for anybody suffering
    anywhere. If it doesnt, then I
    doubt God plays any real role in
    our lives beyond a bit of
    superficial postering when it
    Duncan, London, United Kingdom

    I am proud to be a British Muslim. What I mean by this is I am a muslim living in the UK. We are so wrapped up in identity and nationalism we forget we are muslims. I have no problems with anyone but I hate it when people with brains the size of a pea accuse all muslims of supporting terrorism. Muslims are peace loving people maybe if people observed muslims they may learn just how peaceful islam is! I think Jo hit the nail on the head! I also want to say that I despair when I c muslims in pain!
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Does this question really matter? I was born and raised in East London, im of Pakistani heritage. I can not pretend to be English, because I am not accepted as an englishman, When I go to Pakistan, I am considered to be English, despite having impeccable Urdu. I support the England football team and the Pakistan cricket team, but neither are home. Only being a muslim is a real identity, although one must respect the law of the land and try to integrate with those of other faiths and cultures.
    Burhan Ali, London, United Kingdom

    I'm an English agnostic, living with 2 Muslims, a Hindu & a Catholic. We all get along well & I have learnt a lot about the Islamic faith in recent months. I have never judged anyone on the basis of their religious values, however, I do not claim to have always understood such values. Yet thru open discussions with my flatmates, I feel educated in the ways of Islam, Hinduism and Catholicism. I believe educating people in the ways of other religions is the way to peace and understanding.
    Jo, Cardiff, United Kingdom

    Why cannot people just get along with each other? Does it matter what colour your skin is, where you were born or what religion you are? The fact is that we are all HUMAN.
    Not all Muslims are terrorists and not all white people supported the war in Iraq.
    There is not much 'hatred' between anyone it is extremes on both sides of the argument who create tension eg. BNP and Al Muhajiroon.
    What I say is come on people lets sort our differences out for good.

    Ali, Bristol, United Kingdom

    For me identity has different layers I was born in Bradford. My Parents hail from Kashmir therefore i would say I was a British Kashmiri my religious identity is muslim
    Sagir Ahmed, Bradford, United Kingdom

    The recent proposals by the french to ban headscarves is another swipe @ the people who want religion to play a big part of their life, this will be the start of a wave of new moves to change our religion.The longer we leave the idea of creating an islamic state (in a Muslim Land), the more damage they will do to our religion and our brothers and sisters in the muslim world. There is over 2.3 billion muslims in this world and growing, why can we not create a one caliphate, who will protect us.
    Ali, London, United Kingdom

    larry you have been watching too much tv. the vast majority of muslims are not associated with terrorism. it's understandable that some people are angry at military action on muslim populations. in britain there is a huge muslim population and so far there is no war here in Leeds. Isn't that what the terrorists want? People need to show some unsderstanding and tolerance.
    jim, leeds, United Kingdom

    Al, if few muslims hate all westerners you better get the word out. it seems to most that the hate coming out of the madrasas is a danger and is associated with extremism. why else would the french, lovers of liberalism, be banning head scarfs in school? by not speaking out agains terror muslims have as a whole associated themselves with it. as more muslims speak out against the counties they live in, about how they hate their own countries, i do not think this association is going away soon.
    larry stevens, houston, tx , United States

    Jim few Muslims hate all westerners living here you see the evil/bias people but you also see the many kind people the good teachers who help u your friends and people u meet in stores so Muslims like most westerners BUt when ever we see Muslims killed we are angry everytime we see a muslim in iraq pushed around humiliated and have a bag put over his head by western soldiers we have an explosion of anger within us the foreighn policies of wesern countries that cause so much death causes anger
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    Many westerners hate the lies and hypocrisy of our government and especially the Americans. Look at the war protests, and anti-Bush protests.

    For anyone to say all "westerners" agree with the war and the lies is like saying all Muslims are terrorists. It is Not True.

    Bigotry, hypocrisy, mis-understanding, xenophobia, work both ways.

    It is very sad to me that people in this country hate us westerners. We hate terrorists, not because they are Muslim but because they want us all dead.
    jim, leeds, United Kingdom

    If Islam is such a wonderful, peaceful, religion, why are so many Asylum seekers, Muslim?
    Harvey, London, United Kingdom

    I dont think any Muslims feel british or american or anything except muslim anymore i am surprised british people or westerners are surprised that muslms are extremly angry, most of us were born in the west we like our homes and land but since the iraq war most of us feel hatred for the rest the lies the hypocricy has made us bitter and resentfull the day they attacked iraq it was like =hand reached down and ripped your britishness & every time we see an iraqi killed or with a bag over his head
    Al Khalid, United Kingdom

    Say what you like but britain and most of the west are christian countrys our laws were first derived from the 10 commandments (thou shall not kill,thou shall not steal e.t.c..)and if you look closely our laws still mimic them today.It seems if muslims are not fighting the west they fight each other,i wonder how many british(or not british as many of them say) muslims would be willing to give up there uk passports,free health care,free education and benefits.I bet i could count them on 1 hand
    paul, hornchurch , United Kingdom

    Dear all,
    To me being British means freedom to the individual. I am happy to see Muslims live here and hope they can live in peace and security here, as they cannot do this in other countries.I hope Muslims do not see the acts of western governments as being the fault of ordinary people.when countries go to war we all suffer.
    In this country you can choose to be Muslim or not.I choose to live my life as i want to.This does not make me less of a human being.Some of you need to learn tolerance.
    jim, leeds, United Kingdom

    What i am is a muslim, anything else is just a situation in which i am present. The fact that I am British is a situation, in the same way that i am pakistani, and a man. All these factors are irrelevant to the true identity. Identification is not limited to being one or the other, i am a man and british at the same time,but the true identity, which is of the bigger picture is ones faith, and that for sure is being a muslim. Everything else is limited to the factors of this life.
    vaseem, birmingham, United Kingdom

    British or Muslim?
    Integratration is the first step for governments to change us,this is their way of dis-assembling the ummah.Their million dollar question is 'why do muslims across the world, get angry when a Muslim in palestine gets shot by the IDF, or an Muslim in Iraq is killed because he is resisting the 'Occupiying Force', We are not supposed to oppose them or question them if we do,we are labelled a 'terrorist', Islamic fundamentalist or an extremist. This is their way of changing us.
    Ali, London, United Kingdom

    Being British and being Muslim, I feel qualified to share my thoughts on the society today. Sadly, I feel most of the British Muslims are wrong and have a distroted view on fairness and equality for all beliefs.
    We pretend it is better in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan etc. Well I don't thnik so, no country in the world is as tolerant and forgiving as England. I am very well travelled and can say with a honest heart that the practice of British Goverment of taxes, welfare NHS are akin to Islam.

    Mohammed Z Khan, Manchester, United Kingdom

    I am a muslim,AfricanAmerican,female, New Yorker,student etc.However,here in the States my muslim identity is more salient since we are fewer, but when I traveled to Mecca everyone was muslim so I felt so different.Everyone has a desire to be accepted but here my identity of American is not accepted because I am not Non-White/Christian.In the end, all that will matter is our belief and the deeds we have put forth not what land we are from, our facial feautures,ancestry or the language we speak.
    Amatullah, Brooklyn, United States

    You can see just from looking over this page that muslims and non-muslims will never get on, our beleifs are just too different. We're told to treat each other as equals but why should we when the government does not? Taking the crosses off buns is one example of the ridiculously over sensitive attitude adopted by parlament, I doubt there is a muslim here who is really bothered by a cake. Something has to be done before this melting pot of different cultures boils over and we all get scalded.
    Steve, London, United Kingdom

    I tried to send a message to the Muslim News, but the link appeared to be broken. I will send the message in this forum instead.
    I do not want my country to be Muslim. I do not want any more immigrants into my country. I do not want my family to be "integrated" into any so-called "multi-racial society". You know how the system works: you do not adopt my country as your own, you simply make use of our facilities, and export your wealth. Please do not pose as UK citizens, for you choose not to.
    Ken, North West, United Kingdom

    Faisal:Avicena is NOT the father of modern medicine it is the Ancient Greek Hyppocrates. Yes I do agree that if not for the muslims Aristotle would be buried many more years. But at the same time, Greece was under the muslim ottomans and had no freedom, no right to practise christinity.I am from lebanon,and palestinians are badly treated from their own arab brothers, algerians are killing the innocent algerians so fight for them too don`t always attack the west for what the muslims are doing.
    Christiana, Devonshire, United Kingdom

    If Islam forbids pork alcohol and pornography then why does the Muslim owned convenience store just around the corner from where I live have copious amounts of these items for sale as do the many other Muslim owned stores up and down this country?
    The word hypocrite springs to mind

    Joe, United Kingdom

    Why is it the british have to change so many of their ways for muslims. We have had hot cross buns banned, the george cross banned, nativity plays banned in schools. And now we have the ridicoulous situation where the official christmas card for the government features no christian images yet features muslim and hindu images. Added to the fact muslims get extra time off or ramadan etc, which christains cannot and it seems discrimination.. but against christains in favour os muslims
    ann, Walsall, United Kingdom

    Khalid, you act as if all western countries are murderers, and islamic countries are not. In fact islamic countries are amongst the most brutal and backwards in the world. I notice you refer to them as "my soldiers", implying you dont consider yourself british. if this is correct, then please leave . Muslims claim they hate britain yet they arrive in tens of thousands, using events decades ago to justify it. Many are sick of keeping you economically when you spit in our countries face.
    chris, leisc, United Kingdom

    Chris Islam forbids targetting of civillians and muslims abide by that law BUT just like u taint ALL Muslims with wanting to kill innocent civillians WE SAY DEMOCRACY DICTATES THAT THE WILL OF THE GOVERNMENT REFLECTS THE WILL OF 100% OF THE POPULATION the MASS MURDER of MILLIONS of innocent humans beings by YOUR government BY YOUR SOLDIERS and by YOUR COUNTRY spread loathing and hate for YOU HOW are u innocent you support your country and government and that country kills MILLIONS through policy
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Assalamu Alaikum,
    It is because of ignorance regarding the teachings of Islam that has led to such a rift between Islam and the West as such. It is turning out to be a clash of civilizations of sorts. I think it will be better if we teach these people what the muslims were doing when Europe was in the dark ages. Do they know that Averrose(Ibn Rushd the philosopher who bought Aristotle back to the attention of the Europeans) and Avicena (ibnSina) who was the father of modern medicine were muslim
    Faisal, Chennai, India

    It would appear that the majority of Muslims feel that belonging to Islam comes before being British. So why then do many Muslims decide to move to this sin filled island rather than the Islamic countries that exist? There they would be surrounded by people with the same beleifs as themselves, who follow Islamic law and they would not have to coexist with the immoral Kafirs living in the UK. It would seem than neither Britain nor Islam come first for muslims, its money.
    Steve, London, United Kingdom

    Actually khalid i was against the war, and i will be voting accordingly in the elections. I was angry but i didnt get an urge to go and blow up people who had nothing to do with the decisions. It is the attitude that the war justifies TARGETTING civilians by terrorist muslims, many of them british that is so sickening. With many british muslims seemingly supporting terrorism on civilians and even charities such as the recently attacked red cross how can you expect to be welcome in the country?
    chris, leic, United Kingdom

    Chris OVER 20,000 Muslims are dead in iraq TODAY more turmoil, more misery and death thats why ANGER exists because today you do THE SAME THINGS AS IN THE PAST if u changed or stopped like u said there would eb NO anger but u havent ur nation keeps killing and we suffer.
    Stop the killing & stop the anger Muslims cannot legitmse innocent deaths BUT u do, you legitimse the deaths of 20000 muslims in iraq because u wanted to remove UR dictator if Al-qaeda then target u WHY are YOU SURPIRSED
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Khalid you keep going on about crimes commited by people long dead. The crimes being done by so called "british muslims" with suicide bombs are here and now. Nothing justifies targetting civilians, regardless of the percieved injustices in the middle east. The official "British Muslim Council" line is that muslims deplore the targetting of civilians and obey the laws of the country they live in , that is cleary untrue. How are innocent civilians responsible for their goverments actions?.
    chris, Leic, United Kingdom

    Also chris I am here because i was born here and this is my home, JUST because i think society is honourless and moraless dosent mean i leave my home, My parents were legal immigrants to Britain we havent forced anythign But British peopel went to australia, NZ south africa Zimbabwe America and killed MURDERED millions to take/steal the land anf force their own laws that is far far worse then muslim anger in the UK, if u want us to leave then all those people have to come back here too
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    New UK law states that muslims may take time off work on their religious days, does this mean all other religions will get extra days off or will muslims be working Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day? Also in my town at the local community centre there is an exercise class for muslim women only, what is wrong with the rest of the female population attending this class?
    Also in a nearby town female muslims are not allowed to ride push cycle's, is this true?

    Mrs M Keir, lancs, United Kingdom

    Khalid you proved my point, you argued that targetting civilians (who by the way have nothing to do with their goverments policy on israel or iraq) is justified.
    Nothing should justify targetting civilians. Yet in the islamic world this is praised. It is for this reason islam is not welcome in the UK. You dont see it do you?. Two wrongs do not make a right. And those killed in 9/11 and istanbul where innocent. Your hatred of the british people is clear. I dont understand why you stay here
    chris, leic, United Kingdom

    Chris terrorism is a tool of the weak and oppressed you dont choosh to to fight back in such ways you choosh to have an army with jets and missiles but 9/11 was NOTHING compared to the Muslims killed across the world every year by western forighn policy the NAGER IS IMMENSE IT IS ENOURMOUS and YET AGAIN you kill muslims in iraq to remove a secular dictator YOU supported and funded invade our land and then force feed us ur ideology YES WE ARE ANGRY yes terrorism will spread because of your action
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Wasim: If when muslims TARGETTED civilians such as in istanbul, or 9/11 the majority of muslims condemned this then you would be welcome. However muslims in britain for economic benefit do not.They instead justify the attacks on civilians by pointing to iraq and israel, as if "two wrongs make a right".I find islam terrifying, as it is one of hatred, and intolerance and terror. At the recent protests i saw "british muslims" burn the union jack. And it gave us islams true colours, hatred .
    chris, leicester, United Kingdom

    I not live in UK but I have something to tell to every muslims who live in UK. I think that every muslims who live in UK have to feel muslim before british because religion is most prominent that nationality. Nonetheless, all the british muslim community have to be proud to live in UK because in this island, they can live with lot of harmony islam and that's not the case in lot of country such as France (where I live).
    Sorry for my english and salam.
    habib, Paris, France

    Mark NO ONE has said its wrong for english people to identify with their country, we ONLY say that our faith forbids nationalism because it is a man made concept which divides humans upon worhtless basis it creates hatred and wars invasions and problems, in islam a human must be judged on iman [faith and belief] But we are NOT welcomed in the UK we are told to assimilate or we are rejected but we dont care so if we are not welcomed the ONLY thign we can do is support people who we identify with
    Wasim fan, United Kingdom

    Wasim fan, you can't sit there and say its wrong for English people to identify with their own country, but say its fine for "Pakistani" (even though they are born in england and therefore should consier themselves English) people to do so.
    Mark, London, United Kingdom

    Johnny we dont want our faith forced on you, we dont want ANYONE interfering with Islam, muslims, muslims lands or supporting dictators or people who do that. I couldnt care less if you became muslim infact i dont want you to yet you attempt to force msulims to ASSIMILATE NOT intergrate you try to make us lose our beliefs and accept things un-acceptable to us and when their is a backlash you blame it on us, our home land is our home land i was born under the rain of Brum not Pakistan but i dont
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Dr. Syed: Have you ever realized that what you just said about the muslim religion is exactly what all the other religions want? But, obviously, only you muslims are right whereas all the others are poor damned and lost unless they become muslim like you. We, non-muslim British do not want your fundamentalist ideas along with the scientific rubbish written in your quran. This is the only problem that causes such hatred among us. There is nothing like that among other cultures integrated in U.K.
    Johnny, Leeds, Abu Dhabi

    Muslim try to follow Quran This the only solution of their problem
    this is a only peacefull religion on this earth.this is duty of every muslim to read Quran understand it,follow it & spread its message to others Because it is only scintific religion .every scintific fact written in quran is hundred percent correct now a days..if any thing worang in Quran it could not a book of stright farward muslim.that my message to all of our muslim brothers & sisters.always be kind to non muslim
    Dr Syed Iqbal Ahmed, Karachi, Pakistan

    Hey Mark cricket is a sport alot of muslims of Pakistani decent love it its a great game but we feel no connection with English cricket most "British muslims" live in cities most English cricket is from county area's and the bulk of english support comes from those area's also we are not made to feel welcome or NO connection has been made with english cricket we can IDENTIFY with the Pakistan team and players also they are an amazingly tlaneted team and always have been pluc our dads supported t
    Wasim fan, United Kingdom

    Mark: Agreed there is no place for nationalism in Islam. The zealous youth you see supporting pakistan areaffected by nationalism and need to be corrected. There need to be a similar discussion with them. As for neil, instead of insulting people why not make constructive comments to back your idea. Most of our parents came here cos you colonised our lands, needed cheap labour after the war, As for economic migration then well swap places with all the british in oil rich muslim countries.
    abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    One thing that puzzles me: nationalism is so anathema to muslims, why are so many "British Muslims" happy to turn out and support Pakistan en masse at cricket? Surely if they were against nationalism they would spurn such sporting events no matter what country was being represented, whether the UK or pakistan.
    Mark, London, United Kingdom

    Khalid: you wouldn't leave the land of your birth? Why is that? It means nothing to you. You were born here just because your folks migrated for economical purposes and to have a better life than anywhere in the muslim countries (pack that stuff of foreign british policy; we've got nothing to do with what our governement decides in secret). We fought for centuries the brutality of religious laws and you want us to recognise your medieval religion and customs after that? Get lost!
    Neil, London, United Kingdom

    bismAllah Al Rahman Al Raheem
    I am a muslim revert, who happens to be born in united kingdom. My passport says 'british', but my faith is Islam. I see my nationality to be irrelevant, it's just a place I was born and thats about it. I don't pledge my alliance to the Queen, but I seek refuge with Allah away from the shaytan. Therefore my identity is muslim, alhamdulillah!
    JazakAllah Khair.

    Eid Mubarak to my brothers and sisters!

    Hamzah, United Kingdom

    I would define my identity as just Muslim. The fact that i live in the UK makes no difference. Even if the UK had a good foreign policy with the muslim world, which they don't, I still wouldn't call myself British-Muslim or anything like that. I do support English sporting teams abroad though because i was born here so i guess i feel British in that respect.
    Afizia Ali, Bradford, United Kingdom

    Maria most of us knwo exactly what christianity and trust me to most british people christianity is NO MORE then christmas trees & Easter eggs if they dont care about christianity why should we, also as a Minority we are in the perfect position to observe general society, just because we are not fond of the state of society dosent mean we will get up and simply leave the land of our births centuries of hypocricy hasent ended in the west and Muslims are angry about it but our homeland is our home
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Can you beleive what the euro MP dennis Mcshane said that muslims ahve to chose between british values and terrorism? IS he saying British muslims are terorists? OR islam is terrorist? The muslims ahve condemed terrosism long before the british govt was supporting tyrants like sadam. And where is the condemnation of American terrosim or israeli or indian? MR MCshane need to question his governements foreign policy, which over decade have not stood for peace but for colonisations and exploitation
    umm zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Maria: why all the emotion. the discussion is on what values and who decides them?.The muslims are not compalining but highlighting some of the injustices and misrepresentations. If the native people are fed up then that shows that they have never really accepted differences. And how long have they been natives? It is also very easy to say leave if you dont like it instead of discussing the value systems. As for the british foreign policy many non muslims are against it. are they to leave also?
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    I am appalled by the muslims that are posting messages on this forum. If you don't like it here even if you were born in the UK, by all means leave! The White British ( native peoples) are fed up with your ungrateful attitudes. We are fed up with your constant complaints, You are always saying that we are not learning about your "islamic values", do any of you try to learn about Christianity? It's not about having a christmas tree and eating chocolate eggs, but reading our Bible.Shame on you!
    Maria, London, United Kingdom

    Salam aleykum and greetings from the heart of Arabia!
    I'm a Muslim. I'm an Englishman. Deen not nationality is the discriminator.
    Accordingly, I don't find difficulties!
    Mohammed Yusuf, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

    Why Muslim Ummah is faceing war and leabled as Terrorist arround the world? because we have moved away from Sunnah,If we all muslim live our life according to Sunnah
    where ever we are we will be succesfull here and here after.
    Reguarding Miegrating comment i was reading by brother it is true Allah says have i made this world small for you,If in doubt about your deen and your genration deen then get out,AllaH IS Provider.Muslim good action is impotant for non muslim to see what islam teach.
    Arbi, East London, United Kingdom

    Mohammed Islam is a way of life a code of existence not just a religon it GUIDES ALL ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE marriage is half of Islam so it is important we marry within the boundary of what islam allows so we can implement islam RACE is not an issue my own auntie is white but she converted befor she met by uncle muslims marraying muslims of all races is OK but MARRYING OTHER FAITHS destroyes the implementaiton of islam in the home so is not acceptable, you cant implement islam without true faith
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom

    salaam alaikum.brothers and sisters
    I am a muslim revert who came to islam from a mixed race family. father white,mother pakistani.and I am proud of my roots.what this world needs is peace and harmony. not war,one question to every do you fell about mixed raced marriages between muslims and white people reverts.think very carefully and be honest.
    I am at universty and reasearching for a assignt mixed race marriages in islam. may allah bless us all and may their be peace in the world
    muhammad mujahid islam, lancashire, United Kingdom

    muslims should learn to get along with each other. that is the only way muslims will be able to counteract the accusations levelled against them. by this i dont mean we should go around in large groups and beat up every non muslim that we meet. i mean that we should help each other out of hardships and give as much help as we can to our muslim neighbours
    safwaan, United Kingdom

    Muslims DO NOT want to foce our way of life upon the UK thats IMPOSSIBLE, but we feel we are forced to assimilate fprced to be somethign we are not, forced to not speak out against things which we see as un-just or hypocritical if we speak out we are labelled Terrorist or UN-patriotic and should be kicked out, Abu Hamza etc is a right wing version of the resulting anger of watching daily humiliating of your people in places like iraq, im afraid the iraq war has affected many UK muslims negativly
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom

    I have a serious question for muslims, driven by a desire to understand. Much coverage has been given to british muslims celebrating 9/11, insisting britain must become islamic, and encouraging british muslims to travel to afghanistan etc to fight british soldiers. Do you feel this is the true face of islam, or a tiny minority of muslims blown out of proportion by the media?
    Trev, brum, United Kingdom

    Shabir,most brits welcome different views. What we object to are scenes such as abu hamza etc calling for britain to become an islamic state, and calling us evil, while claiming full benefits from our country. Khalid, disagreeing with the goverment, heck many do. However, condeming britain, and unfairly portraying british people (as a bunch of peadophiles for instance)Is bound to make people question why you live here.If you dont try to force your beliefs on others then there is no problem
    elle, walsall, United Kingdom

    Neil ALL societies change the values they hold are not forever, for example 100-300 years ago British people felt it was OK to kill and massacre black africans or inncnets in the world to STEAL their land, I on the other hand was BORN here i dont want the land of my birth destroyed, but that dosent mean i agree with what human society deems right and wrong is being british simply that you nod and agree with everything society or the government says, i am britsh and want more honour in my country
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Baz: I used to live in the UK. IT is not a christian country but a capitalist country ever since religion was separated from state. Most people believe in darwins theory and others are agnostics or athiests. However your views contradict capitaism and expose there is no real freedom of thought
    but a culture of imperialism. Many people from US and UK are moving to paksitan. And we have discussion with many people here from the Uk, we disagree with then but we never tell them to get out.
    Shabir, Lahore, Pakistan

    Mark: a genralisation may be an exaggeration but in no way is it racism. At the end of the day you should explain to us you values and the rationale for them. For anyone to question values and hold a different set of values is not racism. As for Baz : that the typical non intellectual comment for those who cannot rationalise their stance. As for nationalism, it cannot give solutions to problems. people should be bonded by common thoughts not nationalism.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    The thing is, you keep saying nationality is meaningless. Yet you stay in britain. In britain national identity is alive. If you dislike british values so much, why not go to a country where your values are the norm. And a country where you are not a detriment to the country and are welcome. If britain is such an awfull place in your eyes, why not leave, britain would benefit, and so would you in your eyes.
    neil, birmingham, United Kingdom

    This is a christian country. Perhaps you could all do the British a favour and toddle off to another Muslim nation to peddle your bull****.

    Baz, London, United Kingdom

    I hate to break this to you Anina, but being Brit does not mean "going to pubs, child molestation, adultrey & homosexuality". Well, maybe with the exception of the pubs. The rest are sadly social problems found all over the world.

    When I read quotes like this I really do wonder who the racist ones are. It seems white brits have to constantly watch their step or be called racist, but muslims can get away with saying almost anything.
    Mark, London, United Kingdom

    Tariq: Just because you were born into a muslim family doesnot make you knowlegeible about it as you comment shows. in Islam everything is backed up by evidence. the beleif is backed up by rational evidence and the rules by the textx of islam. IF islam is based on 'fairy stories' you just have to produce one chapter like the quran. In reality you problably have never studied nor reasearched islam for yourself, never looked into its civilisation and have allowed this society to mould your views.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Tariq you have NO understanding of your own faith whats so ever, God forbids nationalism because it DIVIDES man kind on ridiculous imaginery boundaries, its pathetic, what holds Muslims together that is that we are one united ummah [even if it dosent seem like it at times] all land belongs to god live where you like you were born in scotland SO WHAT but what is humiliating is that you forget the basisi of your faith and choosh to place your identity simply in the man made society to which u belo
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom

    I am a Scot, born into a Muslim family. I am extremely proud of my country, ie Scotland! This is the country which has shaped me as an individual and made me the adult I am today. It saddens me to read through all the racist comments presented above, and I'm talking about the anti-Western hatred and ignorance being thrown up by UK-based Muslims. The sooner the human race puts aside these ridiculous religious "fairy stories", the sooner we'll all finally be able to get along with one-another.
    Tariq, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Doesn't Rmamadhan just make you proud to be muslim. I think it a great time to discuss with non muslims and make them aware of Islam. It also shows us what we can achieve is muslims acted like they do in Ramadhan all year round.
    I am sure then losts of non muslims would want to find out about this way of life that is for all humanity not just muslims. Remeberranbe of Allah, the revelation of the Quran, the fast and night prayer, the manners, the charity, the feeling of one ummah are our values.
    zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I have been in UK al my life, but now at the age of 17, I find it difficult 2 live in the country which is brutally bombing innoncent countries. Who r we? R we really Brit? If people want answer then BNP & NF r excelent candidates, they'l tell u who we really r. We can never b Brits bcz being Brit means going to pubs, child molestation, adultrey & homosexuality. I'll say that 1 passport does nt confirm ur identity status, If the pasport is taken away then who r we? Nthing, so stick 2 ur religion
    Anina Zafar, Woking, United Kingdom

    I think the Local people just need to look at ramadhan and fasting by Muslims to get a real meaning of Islamic values. The Propet [pbuh] said: “Allah will bestow this reward on one who gives food to a fasting man even if it is a sip of milk or a date or a sip of water. And whosoever gives satisfaction to a man, Allah will give him a drink from my fountain that will not make him thirsty till he will enter Paradise.' Look to the poor around us today all over the world and cardboard city in London.
    Abu muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    I think adopting british values is not about eating fish and chips or the passport you carry but day to day values. IF we are truthful we can see only many problems in the society including morals ones. We also see claims that this is a multicultural society but we see other values simply lambasted and not tolerated. the only values that are tolerated are those that agree with the status quo. there is no real discussion just emotions.In this society you will never be accepted until people change
    Aisha, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Simon: Actually the number of conversion through marraige is much less than the people reverting to Islam. MOst people have questioned the current system
    and rose above the media propaganda to accept Islam. Once again there is yet a convincing argument to be put forward for western values, their definition and who defines them? Nationalism provides no system to solve problems but infact has caused an awful lot of disputes between people.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    I consider myself as an English Muslim.....since i was born in England and i have an Islamic way of life....What does it mean to be English..? being born in England, an English passport, English Parents, grandparents?? How far do u want to go back in time to define what you are...? go back far enough and all the 'white' English were Europeans (anglo-saxons etc) so they arent ORGINALLY English either...!
    Naitonality shouldnt be important..Way of Life (ie Islam) should be...
    Zee, Luton, United Kingdom

    Khalid, Islam is NOT growing fast in the UK through conversion - converts are around 20,000 in the UK which is absolutely nothing. It is growing because of higher birth rates, arranged marriages to people from 'back home' etc
    Simon, York, United Kingdom

    Whn British empire ruled India, Indians were forced to show their loyalty 2 Brit empire by going to WW2. In aftermath wt were we awarded, Ah lets say a split state, hatred among groups, oh and bleeding Kashmir. This shows hw loyal Brit was to its ex-empire. and knw wt they expect us 2 join in their campaign to bomb defensless countries, If this is the only way 2 prove ur British identity. Then i'll say i rather call my self a descendant of Osama Bin Laden then a Brit.
    Alishba, khan, United Kingdom

    I am wt my religion & culture is. When filling in a form I always tick British for nationality, bcz this is whats on my passport but,if im asked to describe myself then i am Pakistani Muslim. Recent race riots and September 11th events was a wake up call for many people like me,and know I have become more determined to have self control over my identity that is, I'm just a Muslim and a proud Pakistani, living in UK. Afterall, British people dont forget their identity whn they r in our countries.
    Maha, Ali, United Kingdom

    I think throughout this debate Muslims and non-Muslims have our wires crossed, Muslims dont want britain to be an islamic state, Muslims dont want islam or islamic law forced upon ANYONE, the conlict comes from Muslims being ONE UNITED FAMILY and when muslims are oppressed or killed in forgihn lands then British muslims feel compeled to support them, Yet many times that support alineates us from the mainstream & we are told we must either assiliate or get out, WE ARE STUCK
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom

    I'm sorry, I apologize to make comparisons with the Ottoman empire. I know westerner christians have got the world's blood on their hands yet. I don't want to make Muslims like us but neither I want to be affected by any imposition from the Muslim culture. You'll always regard westerner's ethos as corrupted and the difference and antagonism will just get deeper and deeper. How to make a real free and democratic society where everybody is happy and lives differently?
    John, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Noone expects muslims to give up their muslim identity. Just respect the laws, and the country that has given them refuge. In my opinion demanding britain becomes an islamic state, killing daughters who become to "western". Going to pakistan to fight british soldiers etc are not within these parameters. Im confused, i thought muslims where supposed to obey the laws of the country they live in?. If people dont like our laws, get into politics and change them, or simply leave the country.
    may, walsall, United Kingdom

    John Chrisianity was spread through force, the GENOCIDES in south america, North america, africa, australisia even asia were followed by colonisers forcing christianity, the Ottoman empire were muslims but hardly islamic, but look at how islam spread in the face of opposition, even today Muslims love islam and islam is the fastets growing faith in the world through CONVERSION why do you want us to forget our faith and beliefs, you commit so much crimes yet you demand muslims be just like you
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    How about the Ottoman empire? Weren't they Muslim? That's how they islamized half world: by imposing your religion through intimidation, terror, slaughtering etc... If it wouldn't have been for the crusades (equally disgusting) now all of Europe would be muslim.
    John, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe, Canada, these are all places where british people forced their way of life upon other people and conuntries ontop of massacering the natives, Our religon is a way of life a code of existence and we cant implement our way of life in our own lives While Britain is off with America killing and bombing people across the planet many muslims find it absurd that they demand we be nationalistic, after the iraq war they ripped the britishness out of us
    Saheed, United Kingdom

    Asalam Wa Alikum,I would say I was British-Muslim.I was born in England 67 years ago and a christian until I embraced Islam in 1959,so I definitely consider myself to be British.I have lived many years in arab countries,and have only settled back in the UK in the last three years.I am so pleased to find now that there are many more Muslims here than before,and also so many more mosques.Al humdillilah Muslims are very well catered for now,and Islam in the UK is the fastest growing religion.
    Abdul Rahman Harris, London, United Kingdom

    Ex-pat compound in Saudi? KL, Dubai, Morocco? What sort of example did you give? Are those Westeners integrated in the Muslim society of the country where they are? I was talking about Muslim in U.K. who wear a veil or a turban and they are allowed to join police forces or to be in places where they should not weir those funny dresses. And you want more integration that that?
    Com'on! Enough is enough!
    John, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    It is silly to compare temporary workers in Saudi or Japan UK with British muslims who still act like they are Pakistani colonialists. Do brits in saudi: forbid their daughters to marry saudi men and kill them if they do, marry their children off to british people so as to increase the numbers of christians in saudi, constantly go on and on about britophobia while displaying immense intolerance themselves, call for the britification of saudi society, etc?
    Matthew, London, United Kingdom

    James, its all very well saying you can retain your british identity. But technically speaking you will have to renounce Music now you have reverted. Imagine the UK without, variously, Last Night of the Proms, Glastonbury, the Opera House, Notting Hill Carnival... These things are all vital to what makes Britain a decent country.
    Matthew, London, United Kingdom

    John: have u ever been to the ex-pat compound in Saudi? or the holiday beaches that the Westerners flock to? Have u been to KL, Dubai, Morrocco. These places are more Westernised than London. Frankly, I think Muslims in Muslim countries are fed up of Western Capitalism, so called Democracy and Freedom being shoved down their throats.
    Dr Ariffin, London, United Kingdom

    Why do you all Muslims expect to follow your traditional values and habits in Western Countries whereas Westeners cannot dream of living a Western life in Muslim Countries? Who is the fundamentalist then?
    John, Scotland
    John, Glasgow, United Kingdom

    Dont blame others.Make sure children gets education.Enter valuable profession.Try 2 involve local and national politics and let know views.Media and financial control.creat jobs in ur own country .buy ur own product.good relation with all.whereever u live treat that as ur own country.allah tomakey shanti Bangladesh from Indian terrorism .Indians r killing owr Brothers every day.Stopping water flow in Bangladesh.Sabotiging business in eorope and usa.
    abul khan, london, United Kingdom

    James: That's all fair and well. but what happens when the values conflict? Did you support britain attcking Iraq? Do you support the foreign policy including selling arms to the third world? What do you say about the values instilled in youngster leading to drugs abuse, what do you say about capitalism ? And how what about the social system and the bias media? You are a muslims in britain but you can only have the islamic identity Just like the Prophet [pbuh] born in Mecca but called to Islam.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    I am a white middle-class male aged 29. I have recently reverted to Islam and consider myself to be a British Muslim. I still follow England at all sports and regarding my views on my own nationality nothing has changed. What I will say is that I feel a strong bond to my Muslim brothers across the world; something I never felt toward fellow Christians. Islam has not changed my identity although it has made me open my eyes and respect other people and cultures.
    james willetts, cheltenham, United Kingdom

    it seems that everyone defending british values as yet to put up any rational argument for them, what are these values and who decides them? We have seen emotional rhetoric of nationalism, patriotism and get out of here if you don't like it. This is precisely the response the thinkers get in the 16th century when they questioned the church. However the sons of these liberals have stopped questioning. Presumably they want all the academics who question varoius theories of state to leave also?
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    Sally: You may well have friends who are black, asian, hindu. chinese etc and this tolerance is Anyone can be ok with each other if you cast away your real identity. All of us need to live in a society and what we are debating is which set of values to live by and which system.
    We are asking people to question the current system ir capitalism. We should not follow blindly religion, nationalism or any ideology.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Islam forbids nationalism because it is another corrupt human concept which divdes human beings based upon imagnery human boundaries and races and colours, islam is a way of life which is meant to unite all humanity thats why Muslimswherever they are male or female, old or younf regardless of colour arent supposed to be nationalistic and instead hold themselves as muslims and the unity they feel for humans regardless of their colour or race or which human country they lie in is most important
    Reality, United Kingdom

    I'm amazed at the hatred and lack of understanding people have for each other.Some of you are living far far in the past.What counts is today, and today I have great friends who are chinese,sikh, black,asian,muslim,christian, hindu,white...and because I have all these people in my life I have become a better and well educated person.At the end of the day we are all human beings and therefore should treat each other as such.Religion nor nationality should get in the way of respect for each other
    Sally, London, United Kingdom

    Steve: Nationalism is cause of most of the border disputes and fighting in the world. Nationalism is an emotional bond. It arises ndue to human wanting mastership over their family then tribe and then nation. it is a sub human bond as we can see in the animal kingdom. The fact that you had not choice where you were born. the binding of people must be based on thought and not basic instincts alone. The other point the people who colonised india may be dead but neo colonialistion is alive.
    Zaid, Leicetsre, United Kingdom

    EVERY Muslim love the land of their birth as do I I was born in Britain under the rain and slouds not under the hot asian sun my love for My land of birth is second to my love of God and his will, It is NOT BRITAIN we hate Muslims are angry with its governemtn and society who has failed us and abuses us and FOR CENTURIES has commited actions that has caused Muslims ACROSS the planet pain, today is the lies and HYPOCRICY that attacked our Ummah in Iraq how can we give love for such a government
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom

    The people who captured india etc are long dead. As anne said, many in britain feel a strong sense of nationality, it is part of british citizenship. If muslims feel britain is corrupt, morally wrong etc. Then fine, but stop coming her by the thousand. And if loyalty to britain is impossible then to take citizenship is to lie, loyalty is a condition of it. renounce your citizenship,if you feel nothing for the country whatsoever, that sentiment is valid for all citizens regardless of religion btw
    steve, leics, United Kingdom

    It is easy to understand that for the Muslim eyes UK is consumerist and lacks personal morals. However, as Muslims residing in UK, take into consideration that secular nationalism is our equivalent of your religious umman. Being a citizen means identification and loaylty toward and the willingness to die for one's country (e.g. WW II). Incompatible with Islam as this is, yet the West holds it true. That's why the 'go home' rhetorics, you appear treasonable and insult their initial hospitality.
    Anne, Helsinki, Finland

    John: IT not just an accusation it a fact. O so it relative now ! one form of colonialism ie the british was better than the belgain.Imposing a foreign culture is exactly what the british did with the education system in India. Ask mcaulay. As for imposing one system or another we nee to know which system is correct rationaly and does it provide solutions to problems. Christianity was removed from lifes affairs in the 16th century in europe. The sytem in place today is capitalism.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Loyalty to your country is not one way. British born Muslims will be aware of:
    a. The lack of real concern by the UK Govt of Muslims Britons in Camp X-Ray.
    b. The refusal of the UK (only 1 of 2 countries) to sign a European Human Rights protocol to outlaw religious discrimination.
    c. The difficulties in achieving voluntary-aided status of Muslims schools(cf. Jewish schools).
    d. The treatment of (Mr Dizaei) the most Senior Police Officer in the MET.
    The UK govt needs to earn our loyalty ...
    Munir, Guildford, United Kingdom

    it's very well to name countries of the world where british people live, and accuse those people of butchering natives, but you should bear in mind that, for example, the rule of the Congo by Belgium was far less enlightened than the British rule of India. The truth is that, at 4% of the population, the majority will resent it if you try to turn Britain into a colony of Pakistan. Indeed, 4% is roughly the percentage of whites in Pakistan, and how would you feel if we used Christian law there?
    john, birmingham, United Kingdom

    PART 1 - Ironically, living in Britain has made me a better or practicing Muslim - I think. The education I received in the UK and probably more importantly parental influence made me take a harder look at society in general and helped in my decision to become a stronger Muslim. By just being a good neighbour we can dispel the negative myth that exists about Islam. Remember, its our actions that speak the loudest. Brits are a good bunch. The leadership on the other hand is another matter.
    Sohaib Sandhu, London, United Kingdom

    Britain is my home, not my families. I is very happy here and have been for 25 months. I will stay.
    Mo Abdul, Bradford, United Kingdom

    To Moshe Ebrahimi:
    So what was the Messenger Muhammed [saw] doing in Mecca if he accepted the value system and rules of the society. On the contrary Islam came to change the corrupted society of the quraish, the Messenger [saw] challanged their belief system , their rules and their leaders.Infact he later conquered mecca, the place where he was born. We need to present islam and the alternative and true value system. How can a system from the creator be subservient to a system from the created.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    I am a middle-aged British man who is a great admirer of Islam. I am deeply troubled by the actions of the fanatical few. But it occurs to me to wonder how else Muslims are to bring the great wrongs the West is committing to the attention of the world. Also, “Christians” are not without stain or spot! (Slavery, crusades, imperialism & etc, etc)
    I am seriously considering reverting to Islam and I feel that it would be because of the deep, deep belief that Muslims hold as well as the beauty I find in the Holy Qur’an.

    Steve, Wolverhampton, United Kingdom


    First i would like to stress that Islam states that a moslem must show loyalty to the country he/she lives in. Islam is very clear in this context, a Muslim MUST respect his country whether Islamic or Non-Islamic, he/she must respect the law of that country completely and without question. Thus as a muslim I regard my British nationality in the same manner as i regard my religion as in my view the to are inseparable.

    Best Regards
    Dr. Moshe Ebrahimi, London, United Kingdom

    All land belongs to the One who Created it (Allah). Muslims must abide by Allah's laws regardless where they live. Many people who disbelieve and disobey Allah in the past have been destroyed (Ad, Thamud, Firaun etc...) so this idea that we are 'British' or 'Pakistani' should not be the issue. When we die we're not going to be a 'British corpse'. We will be slave of Allah who will return to him and be accounted. As for 'home', you'd call timbuktu home if you live there.
    Dr F Ariffin, London, United Kingdom

    ALSO STEVE THE PAST ISNT ATONED FOR AFTER CENTURIES OF MURDER AND BUTCHERY COUNTRIES LIKE BRITAIN were never punished for their crimes against humanity after World war 2 these countries carried on IN THE SAME WAY the world suffers because of the greed of the west 3rd world nations need to stand up and oppose western heganomy, if there was a different & just world power i wuld expect countries like UK to be punished for their centuries of crimes but they wont until the current sitation remains
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Kalid blaming the past for the abject failure of islamic countries is not a valid excuse. Its comical to read people deny the brutality common in islamic countries, murders, honour killings, executions et. The facts are simple, thousands of muslims are fleeing their failed countries to live and leach from britains prosperity. They are a strain, and instead of being grateful for sanctuary spit in the face of western society. If you dont think your british then WHY did you accept citizenship?
    steve, leicester, United Kingdom

    When I was a child I beleived Islam was a violent religion. I thought the desert sun had fried these peoples brains so they acted like apes. My ideas came from this corrupt society, I was dependant on the thoughts of those around me. Now I am an adult, & have no excuse. I do not copy the thoughts of society, but investigate the truth 4 myself, & try 2 live accordingly. Islam is the ONLY TRUTH! Euros R jealous of Islam, but this is not an excuse. Their kids/grandkids will account them 4 arrogance
    Abdul Qaadir Davis, croydon, United Kingdom

    Scott: just the kind of shallow, narrow minded response we have come to expect. What makes britain your country ? Are you celtic, norman, French, roman or what?What makes this country yours? did you have a say in where you were born? What about the people born in india when the british ruled it? And what about the thousand that live in the gulf with tax free salaries? On your premise why don't you get out of iraq, the gulf, india, malaysia, japan, Germany etc...
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    I would label my self as a muslim because religon is the first part to my identity and no one can change that because thats who i am. i dnt bliv in teroism and i respct others and luv evry1 arond me and am stil a good muslim and i fink dats da strongst fing of all.
    Nasima, London, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim I do not belive in nationalisim I am a human. I do not agree with the killing of inocent people but I do belive in self defence. the way western news reportes matters ie palastine they show israelis as victims when the reality is that the palastinines are the victims. same in afghanastan and iraq. israel bombed suyria saying it was a terror camp so it was ok but if suyria bombs back they will be called terrorists. israel has more weapons of mass D then any one else.No Nationalisim
    Mo, East London, United Kingdom

    Hey Scott for centuries you people have gone across the planet massacering, butchering, and murdering, i'll give you a deal we'll leave the country we were born in when you take back all the zimbabweans, australians, New Zealanders, americans who went to innocents peoples nations massacred, raped and butchered them and stole their land and now occupy it, DOES THAT SOUND FAIR TO YOU. EVEN TODAY you commit imperialistic attrocities and you expect Muslims and the third world to REMAIN SILENT.
    Khalid, United Kingdom

    Please just get out of my country. Your not English, Your not Welsh and your Not Scots

    Youll never be British
    Scott, B'ham, United Kingdom

    steve: And we have witnessed massive arrests of pedeophiles including in the police, drugs, gun crime, racism, intolerance, colonisation, support of dictatorship here in britain. Yes there are sublime value in islam not compatible with man made values. howver islam did not sanction taking the law into your hand but has an all encompasing legal system to deal with societal issue. the fact is there is such thing as honour in islam but no such thing in the hedonistic and decadent culture in West.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Islam now has a firm foothold in britain, however its presence is not a benefit to britain in any way. Terrosism, intolerance of other cultures, hatred of the west all seem part of the islamic "package". The west is derided yet just recently britain witnessed an "honour killing" of a young woman so common in islamic countries. Her crime?..being to "western". The claims that islam is a part of our society, and the idea of "british muslims" are frankly nonsensical.
    Steve, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Reiko: I think if you studied details of islam you would be less scared. the western media after 9/11 has
    led a frenzied attack on Islam and muslims exaggerating and distorting
    many of the rules and concepts. So i would suggest you keep in touch with muslims, keep asking questions and use the islamic websites. Keep in mind also that people do have a right to self defence when they are invaded.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Every morning I wake up I am aware that I am a muslim in the individual sense. I define myself as a muslim in Britain, who appreciates other people's faiths and respects them.
    I am proud to live in Britain, because I have manged to keep my sense of muslim identity and live independently outside the boundaries of a muslim culture, which has allowed me to make my own decsions outside my family network. However, i still despair of the myth that muslim women are oppressed.
    jaihanne abdellatif, london, United Kingdom

    Khadija,Waheed: I do agree with all what you say about the real terrorism caused by the West. However there is mainly Muslim terroristic resistence because only you have got "sacred" concepts like jihad and honour brotherood. There are other ways of fighting and the best masters could be Gandhi or Mandela.
    Reiko, Warsaw, Poland

    Reiko: Many other cultures and nations are indeed bullied by the west today. The resistance is predominatel;y by muslims which is agood thing. Most of the resitance is political. Howvere where our countries are occupied and the occupying force is military that where there is legitimate armed struggle. the real cause of terrorism are the policies and colonising agenda of the western forces led by the USA and britain.
    they are responsible for covert and overt terrorism.
    khdija, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Reiko what do you determine to be Terrorism was the Genocide of the native american people not terrorism was the enslavment of innocent africans not terrorism HISTORY IS VIEWED THROUGH THE EYES OF THE VICTOR 2day the west is in power so any action commited against it is deemed evil and terrorism ANYTHING western countries have doen over the last few 100 years is forgotten or glossed over and current actions of MASS OPPRESSION are also glossed over and made legit terrorism is the tool of the weak
    Waheed Hussain, United Kingdom


    What do you think is the purpose of life? Whats going to happen after you die? How did the world begin? they are the natural questions every single human has to ask and seeks answers for? IF any one of us was blind folded and taken to a place we did not know, we would ask where am I? why am i here? How do i get away? Where can i get water and help from? What are you answers about life?
    Umm zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Khadija:I have not any empirical assumptions about the existence of God and even less I do not simphatyse with the values and acts of western governments as I tried to tell Hussain.What I notice is that the terrorist reactions come from Muslims only.Many other countries and cultures are bullied by the West but they don't resolve to terrorism.And that's because Islam is based on hatred and intollerance of anything that is not like it.
    Reiko, Warsaw, Poland

    It seems to me the problems lies in the mis information and judgements people like Reiko carry.
    the western thinkers erred when they thought humans could determine the good from the bad. they made analogy between things and actions. We can sense the bitter and sweet but the is nothing in the action inself that tells us it good or bad. We need an external value system which can be the mind [of the elite]as in capitalism or the revelation as in Islam.
    zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Reiko:The discussion we need to have then is about proof of the creator, proof of revelation and the evidences for all other things.
    you have an assumption based on empiricism that there is no God. As for the fanatacism, that today comes from the western liberals who want to dominate, colonise and impose their views on the world like the recent colonial history shows. there also seems tyo be a one sided condemnation of muslims but nothing regarding the biggest terrosist state US.
    khadija, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Reiko HUMANITY IS CORRPT our laws or sense of right and wrong is determined by our own thoughts and perspective BUT WHO SAID WE WERE PERFECT our laws are an reflection of this in-perfection BUT HALF THE WORLD SUFFERS IN POVERTY WHILE THE OTHER HALF RAPES THE THRID WORLD OF ITS RESOURCES we do not live in a fair world Muslims are guided by an eternal divine will you wish to force us to abide by your corrupt ideals of life and cause us NOTHING but misery, this misery turns to hate stop the MISERY
    Hussain, United Kingdom

    Confused! Converted to Islam in 1990 but now confused as to the real purpose of Jihad. Is this now really a war against Terrorism or more realistically a war against Islam? Where should I Turn for guidance?

    Absullah Abdurahman, London, United Kingdom

    Dear Khadija,
    I do respect your view though I do not believe in any supernatural revelations or prophets able, allegedly, to impose a divine fremework upon human reality. The most man made laws are those masked by the illusions (heavens) and brutal punishments (hells) of religions. As far as Islam is concerned, the problem comes from the intolerable fanatic fundamentalists of your faith who would like to destroy the freedom and the values the west achieved in its bloody history.

    Reiko, Warsaw, Poland

    I feel no sympathy for patriots who consider it an affront for muslims to attack british values. If we reverse their argument, what are they doing in this forum? If they don't like us discussing how to defend our identity from corrupt secular values, then maybe they should leave this forum.
    No one here has condoned bombing or murder, or insighted hatred of UK gov! We only discuss with ourselves how we r2b. If you love freedom, let us practice it & not stop us. or maybe you dont like freedom!
    Abdul Qaadir Davis, Croydon, United Kingdom

    Why would anyone be proud of living in britain? It's not your choice or part of your identity. In UK you are being forced to compromise or hide Islamic identity all the time. As a Muslim you strive to live according to halal and avoid haram, and this is what forms your character and identity. You are not a different person just because you live in the west, you just face different problems, and you see the evil corruption of a godless society close up. I was christian now muslim. I love muslims!
    Abdul Qaadir Davis, Croydon, United Kingdom

    We know there are lot of problems in muslim countries but that is not an excuse to attack Islam. After 9/11 how many non muslims were attcked in muslims countries, compare that to arrests, harrasssment, physical and verbal attck on muslims in US and Uk? all cos of the media hype. All negatives are shown about the muslim world. What about thousands of tourists who recieve excellent hospitality from muslims.Why don't they all speak out? cos it muslim bashing time and they don't want to be heard.
    Zarrar, Lahore, Pakistan

    Why is it that europeans think they are right and everyone else is wrong? why should the muslims follow european ideas, experiences and leave their own culture. Even the separation of church and state was based on a compromise. How come the intellectuals who said their is no god eventually compromise with the church and separate it from life. either there is a god or there isn't. Once your convinced there is, the creator decides his realm not the created. The creator decides the system and value
    Ilyas, Dubai, United Arab Emirates

    OF course humans are in need of guidance from their creator. The one who created you knows what is the correct system to live by. IF you bought a car and the manufacturer told you it was deisel but you decided to put petrol in it cos you are free to decide would it work? In the same way man made systems are breaking down. The are only 2 types of people today those slave to man made laws and those who wish to follow the laws of the creator and convince others of this viewpoint.
    khadija, Liverpool, United Kingdom

    Its no suprise, that some non-muslims,revert to the BNP style rehtric," If you don't agree with us leave our country".The western way of life, capitalism is on it's last leg. The intelectual superiority of Islam and the bancrupt ideas of Capitalism is evident from the actions of their own Governments. They have failed to convince the muslims countries of their ideas, whilst muslims in the west itself have rejected them also.They revert to military force abroad and bully boy tactics at home.
    Ekhlas Rahman, London, United Kingdom

    Abu: I agree, should all the british workers and immigrants in Arab counties be made to sit a test
    in arabism or Islam. Have they given up all their british values.Rather most are accorded red carpet treatment, walk straight though VIP lounges in airports and have security from abroad. They can get alcohol in all major hotels and their are even disco's etc. They have their own cultural celebration and paid holidays, free accomodation etc.IT not all one way traffic.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    hussain: nobody is talking about imposing views in this forum but to have a contructive debate on values. IF any imposing has been done it by those who blindly follow the media or society without question. The establishment has also imposed a war on iraq that the people were against, draconian legislation, it wants a test in britishness and is about to introduce ID cards. IT rub salt into the wounds it has been less than truthful with the whole issue of WMD and iraq.
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    First of all the european experience of detaching religion from state and excelling was due it itown unique circumstances eg hindrance of thought and freedoms, refusal of scientific inquirey. The experience of the muslim world is totally opposite. Muslims excelled in science, astronomy etc when they had a unified state. The human mind has limits and the rights and wrongs it determines leads to bias, double standards and disparity. Secondly there is no freedoms in the west.
    Abdur rahman, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Nick : Introduction of Islam allows the people to look at a different culture, question it and their own stand point and make conclusions them selves instead of being informed by secondary misinformation. Islam has a 1400 year history. check out the original souces in this global age.
    the number of assylum seekers from muslims countries is minute compared to the number of british working in the gulf and the rest of the muslim countries on tax free salaries. the british effectively run oman, UAE
    Nawaz, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    WHY must views be imposed upon others, I admit i have little respect for many of the lifestyles most british people lead they have no morality or honour BUT SO WHAT its not my life and if they dont impose their beliefs on me or muslims then they can do whatever THE BRITISH WANT MUSLIMS TO ASSIMILATE NOT INTERGRATE to intergrate we becme part of the society, to assimilate we lose our beliefs and adopt beliefs which contradict our faith, Islam is a way of life a code of exitence NOT a PT Religion
    Hussain, United Kingdom

    To nawaz, how is introducing islam a benefit to britain?. I have listened to muslims such as abu hamza and the group Al Muhajiroun and what they preach, is quite simply hatred and intolerance. Some muslims may have been born here, but every day more are given refuge, then spit at the society that has allowed them entry. Islam is an intolerant religion it has no place in britain. I have yet to hear a reason why muslims come here and stay if they hate our society. My guess is free hand outs
    nick, london, United Kingdom

    are you saying that the Koran should draw the line and the limits of Sex? Then you support how the Taliban were treating women in Afghanistan before the American intervention. Keep in mind that Western culture does not impose the view that overt sexuality is good and let people to decide. No problems with that. We don't need any holy book or prophet to decide what's good or bad. We achieived that freedom already through centuries of wars and detachment from brutal religious dogmas.
    Reiko, Warsaw, Poland

    Its easy to say you respect muslims values in Muslims countries. I don't think so you follow the Law. Muslims likewise if they follow islam will cause no problems legally. howvere this idea that the majority should dictate values is flawed. The majority in this country have no say in issues that matter. the majority were agianst the war on Iraq! And don't forget when Islam first came muslims were a small number in Mecca but truth prevailed. 1/5 of the world population is not minority.
    Umm Zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I know you have a culture with different values. But, just as I would have to (and have) respect the values of a Muslim country, so do Muslims in Britain have to respect those of mainstream British society. It doesn't mean that Muslims have to live abandon their own values but rather accept that, as a minority of only 4%, you are living in a majority culture very different to your own and that Muslims will not ever be able to dictate how the other 96% of the population lives.
    Rebecca Wayland, United Kingdom

    We have not misunderstood not failed to grasp your culture but we have a culture that we regard as correct. We need to discuss who sets the limits and rights and wrongs in society. Unfortunately muslims countries today do not represent islam. they are an amalgam of dictatorships and military rule.the question is who decided that overt sexuality is good? And what about all the problems associated with it in the east and the west? who draws the line and the limits of Sex ?
    Umm Zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Nick: Yes the idea of british muslims may be contractictory but
    to go one to say that they make no contribution to the UK is rediculous. Many of our parents came here after colonisation and took up the labouring jobs. The muslims have contributed in a number of ways including introducing Islam. If you moved away from your dogmatic views and engaged in the real debate on values you be better informed. Also many of us were born here but we can debate about which system people should live under.
    Nawaz, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    From reading the comments its obvious the idea of "British Muslims" is a myth. Muslims live in britain because it affords them a higher standard of living than any Muslim country. Muslims use Britain but do not belong here or contribute to it in any positive way.
    Of course british values, which are despised by many here will ensure that muslims in the uk will be free to denounce the country they have come to and settled in. If in an islamic country i openly critised islam, what would happen?
    nick, london, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim and this can only mean one thing that I'm a slave of Allah, my life, my death and my wealth are for the cause of Him and his Messenger (s). How does a person geographical location of residence, passport or language have a role to play in defining his view towards life. This is a question of alliegence to the doctrines of Islam or the doctrines of secularism. There is no room within Islam to support secularism in any manner whatsoever, which is the cornerstone being British.
    salman rahman, London, United Kingdom

    To Umm: sorry but your comments are precisely why many Westerners think that Muslims have utterly failed to grasp our culture. For you overt sexuality is shameful; for us, it is not. Women can be and are abused both in Western AND Islamic cultures but, as a Western woman who has travelled widely in the Muslim world, I can assure you that I have far greater rights and freedoms in the West than in any Islamic country.
    Rebecca Wayland, United Kingdom

    It's unbelievable that the discussion always amounts to 'if you don't like it leave the country.' do that mean that all the thinkers of enlightenment should have left europe just beacuse they did not agree to the prevalent values or questioned them? It just goes to show the intolerance that exists is society for different values and cultures.
    Where are all the academics? they are forever questioning democracy,freedom etc. I think they would be asked to leave the country in the current climate.
    Zaid, Leicester, United Kingdom

    Andrew and Price; The woman is viewed no more that from the sexual aspect and not by her intellectual capacity. What has a wman got to do with selling a car?
    Islam views the woman in her human capacity.The attitudes of muslims are consistant unlike those that change daily due to desires of one group or another. The insticts and need of human are the same only the form of life ie technology have changed.Our values are timeless becaue there is no restriction in adopting technology.
    Umm Zainab, Leeds, United Kingdom

    Bilal: Sorry sir i have been out of this forum due to illness. Howvere you assertion about freedom and islam. Islam indeed freed man from being slave to man. however it did not give him freedom but made him subservient to the laws of the creator. In the west, britain included there is no such thing as freedom. the state interveneves when its interests are treatened.Ask the author of spycatcher etc. As for citing Freedom where does it exist? there are always limits, who sets these?
    Abu muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    Only three things make me proud of being British, the Army, the Royal Navy, and the Royal Air Force. I despair of a society which cannot look after itself; a Police force which is prevented from policing; a legal system geared to arguing fine points of law rather than promoting justice; a government bound to linking us ever closer to a European union which has invented the biggest economic and agricultural farce since Adam Smith. If I was younger I'd leave.
    Den/Omar, Minehead, United Kingdom

    Islam's central message revolves around the freedom and responsibilkity of people, so I don't understand how a muslim could take a position against freedom. Laws, on the other hand, are a result of agreement between people in a common locality, and they can always be discussed and improved to improve people's lives.
    Bilal, Doha, Qatar

    Kosser seems to be suggesting that blond women with slim figures should be banned. Why? Because you can't cope with them?
    Andrew Smythe, United Kingdom

    Sorry,You have the attitudes of a christian firebrand from the 16th century.Only their God was different to yours.Separate looks from a perceived character.Wake up to human nature as we are all the same.Attractivenes gets attention so advertise with it.Sexual related crimes in these societies?.Other countries manipulate their figures to hide the true extent and even say some crimes don't exist.People are all the same with the same instinctive drives.Porn is not the richest industry either!
    and price, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    ‘Nudity is forbidden in adverts’ nudity is not only about being stark naked. The stereo typical Western woman is a blond bombshell with a slim figure if that’s not a sex object!! Also Porn is the richest industry in the UK & America. You need to face the facts! All this sex & women no wonder there are so many sexual related crimes in these societies. Any one who doesn’t agree with freedom is an Al Qa’eda suspect. So face the fascism of freedom.
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    Kosser,I refer to your comment to May-"So the bottom part of your argument is if you don’t like it go home.." She didn't say this.You may have been born here for all we know.She said you are free to leave the country.Your words betray your imagined feelings of persecution.Where do you get your ideas?Islam is not banned in the US.Defend freedom?Well its your choice to comment!If believing in Islam fully means bombing or forcing your beliefs on others then yes, these people are terrorists.
    and price, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Kosser,nudity is forbidden in adverts,Women make their own choice to be in adverts.they are paid.I don't see them as sex objects.Most don't.Why do you complain about this when most women don't.Question yourself.Why is it you even consider they are being portrayed as sex objects when others just see it as an advert that says nothing about the true character of the woman.Again your persecution complex is clearly visible re Al Qaeda.Answer this Kosser,did Afghanistan represent an Islamic state?
    and price, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    I believe in the ideology of Islam, under which Muslims & non Muslims including Jews lived together in security. That is what I believe in is that a great crime under your values of freedom? Women do not want to be treated like sex objects, in almost every advert women are half if not fully naked where is the honour & dignity of women here? Am I an al qa’eda suspect for believing this, the west would probably think so….
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    May Aldridge, as I have mentioned before these countries do not represent Islam, far from it. So yes I agree with you they are in a terrible condition. So it’s not Islam that’s making them ‘terrible’ then what is?! Islam is as good as banned in America with the so called freedom of belief. All Muslims who want to believe in Islam fully are terrorists. So the bottom part of your argument is if you don’t like it go home.. are you not going to make offer an argument back to defend freedom?
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    'Hospitals owe debt to Islam' is the title to an article here.This propagates the belief by extremists that Islam is superior.Hospitals and medicine were begun by the great ancient Greek and Roman civilisations and revived in AD800 in Baghdad.We don't 'owe' a religion.These are advances made by man at times in human history.Keep religion out of it.We don't say 'Christianity owed for air travel' or 'Christianity owed for penicillin discovery'.
    and price, Ipswich, United States

    Thankyou Naeem for your view.I wish more people had your opinion.My only wish is for people to understand common values that we all have.I read an article on what Muslims cannot do to non-Muslims eg, not steal.Does it really need to be spelled out?I am not Muslim but do not need to be told it is wrong and do not have to have to be told that it is wrong even if the other person is of a different religion!My belief is treat others as you would expect to be treated (I am not religious).
    and price, Ipswich, United Kingdom

    Muslims living in Britain should be thankfull as they aspire to an Islamic life here. They are fortunate/blessed enough to enjoy a degree of safety afforded by the laws in Britain. We criticise the British way of life for all which is anti- Islamic; whereas a good Muslim would educate and inform their society about the dangers of such a lifestyle. We lack nothing to live and die as Muslims here. NOTHING.Think of our "Muslim" countries where you could die in sectarian violence between "Muslims".
    Naeem Zafar, Crawley, United Kingdom

    Kosser,saying go somewhere you like is not a right wing approach.Your persecution complex makes you believe it is.If I don't like living in an area I won't live there.Simple commensense.I've already told you most people feel safe to walk the streets.Don't ask again.Crimewatch merely sensationalises crime which is still statistically rare-else why show it.But to turn it around,you want everyone to conform to your beliefs and reject freedom. Not THAT is right wing.Kosser you're the same as the BNP
    and price, ipswich, United Kingdom

    Kosser it is a rather poor excuse to blame colonial pasts on the terrible conditions in islamic countries today. Other nations have built themselves up, without complaint. Using the past as an excuse is the habit of people who are failures.

    Again, without tolerance and freedom in britain, yor religion would be banned as not conforming.

    If unable to accept "freedom" then you are "free" to leave the country. Why stay here, whilst rejecting the countries values?.
    may, aldridge, United Kingdom

    Is that all you can resort to ‘If you don't like it this way, please remove yourself to a country you do like’ sounds like a right wing approach to me. All Muslim countries are colonies one way or another either physical or intellectual. The stats speak for the selves ever seen crime watch well that’s where there’re! Do people feel safe walking the street daytime let alone after dark using a mobile phone without having to watch their backs? What kind of freedom is this?
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    Kosser,most people are not scared to walk the street.Rape every 2 mins?Mugging every 30sec?Check your stats are from an independent source.Please tell me where you got yours from as these are blatantly untrue, else give me your definition of rape.Elderly in homes?Take a balanced view and understand it yourself.Iran is not a colony.The young want freedom.Afghanistan wasn't a colony.Look what a disaster the Taliban were.If you don't like it this way,please remove yourself to a country you do like.
    and price, ipswich, United Kingdom

    Re: your article, value of muslim life.I believe adding comments about differing levels of condemnation to israel and palestine for civillian deaths is propaganda.Israels objective are militants who attack them.Civillians are killed accidentally.Hamas et al,set out to kill civillians from the start.Hence the different level of condemnation.For all Israels sins,and I am not a supporter of Israel,it chooses its targets militarily.Hamas et al do not.Stop the bombing and start the dialogue-both side
    and price, ipswich, United Kingdom

    May Aldridge, if we have so much freedom, why are people too scared to even walk the streets alone? Why does nearly every girl’s disappearance end up in murder? Why statistically is there a rape every two minutes? Half that in America! Why does someone get mugged every 30 seconds? And why are the elderly thrown into homes when they reach a certain age? And for your information there is no true Islamic State in the world today they are all Western colonies hence have also been poisoned by Freedom
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    Kosser it s interesting to hear you blame "freedom" for the wrongs in society. Without freedom, you would not even be allowed to practice your religion in this country. And without freedom the muslims celebrating 9/11 would be locked up and the key thrown away.

    Britain isnt perfect, but its policy of allowing people to practice the religion of choice is something to be cherished.

    Should we discuss things such as "honour killings" and brutality often prevelant in islamic states?
    may, aldridge, United Kingdom

    What makes having British values better? If we take a long hard look at British society you will find A. the social life revolves around the pub – which results in pub brawls, drunken louts, the typical Yobbish behaviour, violence etc. B. Does any man let alone women feel safe walking in the street after dark? I don’t think so. This is because of the rise of rape, burglaries, gun crime etc. This is all as a result of values such as freedom. Which allows man to behave like an animal.
    Kosser Mohammed, London, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim living in Britain, My parents are from Pakistan. What makes me Pakistani? I follow only the values of Islam not tradition, yes I eat chapatti’s & Curry this doesn't shape my behaviour, what does is the unIslamic traditional weddings, the nationalism which further tries to divide me from other Muslims etc. similar to being labelled British, it doesn’t mean one wears jeans, eats chips & drinks tea. Being British means to adopt Western culture even if it contradicts your Islamic culture
    Mohammed K Abdullah, London, United Kingdom

    Riz asks "what are British values?". British values are broadly the same as all Western values. We believe in the freedom of the individual so far as is possible whilst maintaining a stable society. We accept that granting freedom to individuals means that some will make mistakes, and that a minority will make serious mistakes. We also accept that, in order to be tolerated ourselves, we must tolerate others. We don't always live up to these values but we try, just as you try to live up to yours.
    Andrew Smythe, United Kingdom

    There have been many questions and good points riased in this forum. IF we discuss these it would be better. i have still not heard a convincing answer to what are british values. Are these values superior than other cultures? and Are they to be imposed on everyone?
    i do detect a fever of cultural imperialism and domination reappraoching fast!
    riz, Leicester, United Kingdom

    As salam alaikum,
    Is a Muslim who supports the Royal Family any less of a subject of the UK than a person who calls for the abolition of the Monarchy?

    I use the term 'subject' as we live in a Kingdom, 'citizen' is for a Republic.

    Can we persuade the Queen to write her memoirs on "Living with long term decision making" A Guide for PM's (Tony Blair included)

    wassalam alaikum
    Daud R, Matthews, Markfield, United Kingdom

    Point taken that not all esterners are greedy adulterers etc but these values are promoted and tolerated. Those westeners that are opposed to this sort of behaviour need to join in the debate on values and speak out.Education may be the start but there needs to be a fundamental and truthful debate about the values suitable for a society? who decides there values? do we question them or just follow them because of tradition, media, education system or the political system.
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    to May: it is not only muslims in uk many others that suffer injustice. that has nothing to do with britain par say but the capitalist system. the real decision makers are not the people.
    As for liberal councils tat take token gestures like banning hot cross buns these are issues to be taken up with them.The 500 or so police men that defended abu hamza are the same ones who defended the BNP. the muslims are not calling for an islamic state here just a debate on the value systems.
    abdur rehman, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I would like to see an end to people making general comments about the west or islam. Not all westerners are greedy, drug taking adulterers with a desire to fight islam. Not all muslims are terrorists who want to take over this country. There needs to be education. British school children learn French, German and Spanish. Why not Urdu, Arabic or Sorani as well? There should be mutual respect and understanding through education and integration.
    english man, leeds, United Kingdom

    Its interesting to read of "injustice to UK muslims" considering the efforts that go to avoid offence at the expense of our traditions. Simple examples are the banning of hot cross buns in schools, the banning of the george cross at markets and councils. And the 500 policemen who protected Abu Hamza as he and fellow muslims spouted hatred of britain and joy at 9/11. In muslim countries, would your traditions be banned this way?. What fate would i meet if i called for a "christian state" there?
    may, aldridge, United Kingdom

    Living in Britain does not make us anything more or anything less then Muslims, we are quite simply Muslims living in Britain just as Muhammad (saw) was a muslim living in Saudi
    aayesha, london, United Kingdom

    Br raooif: The position of the young muslims is that they are confused. the parents nationality and tradition is often at odds with islam or sold to youngsters as islam. they are never given an intellectual understanding and the ideas in this society even id we disagree with them are passed in an questioning manner. The traditions do not stand up to questioning or the youngster see sheer hypocrisy from some of elder generation. those that stook to Islam see a bright future for their children.
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    i think the position of young muslim in britain is that they are graduallly gettting attracted to this country and the wealth etc with a gradual erosion of there parents nationality with a breakdown of barriers i.e language and the subsequent betrayal of islam they will aspire for the "High Life" for any price, these are the rebellious secound or third generation british muslims, this indeed is today's reality whether anyone is willing to accept it or not.
    mohammmed raooif, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    IF we look at the british value system it has been subject to change because traditional values could not challenge the new values
    so for example a woman could not vote until the suffergete movement, Fuedals were the decision makers, the king decree backed by the church was final. Paradoxically we have also seen values decline where adultary is acceptable, drugs fashionable, women seen no more than sex objects. The whole debate should centr around is there such a thing as a universal value?
    M. Nawaz, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    Yes i agree. There is no such thing as geographically isolated values. and even if you aregue so you will never convince anyone on emotional outburst like claiming muslims are like bnp just because they have a differnet point of view
    and value system. there is nothing inherent in actions to determine they are good or bad. We all utilise an external value system for that. the differnce is in the west this system come from the mind, which is subject to bias, contradictions and disparity as we see
    umm zahrah, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I came across this same discussion on radio 5 live. the new test for immigrants on citizenship and british values. Now what seems to be coming out here is that we should take on british values just because we live here as they are a long tradition. what really needs to take place is a debate on what are these values? Why we should adopt them? what happens if there is a conflict of values. what if another set of values is based on stonger rationale. even in british society the values have changed
    Shazad Ali, Newcastle, United Kingdom

    The BNP or the patriots as you refer to them are a reactionary party. the bond of patriotism is a shallow bond bond arising from the survival instinct. IT is manifested when there is agression
    or a foriegn threat. Islam on the other hand unites the people via thoughts. there is no compaison between the bnp and muslims as 1300 years of muslims living besides non muslims testifies, no so than the jews who were forced out in spain saought protection under the ottoman sultan Bayzit II.
    Abu muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    Come on now! 'Acts of terrorism so often seen by British Muslims' ???
    So often!IF you are really against terrorism then what about state terrorism? The imposition of foreign troops on the lands of muslims, the support of despotic rulers by the western rulers and clear hypocracy is the root cause of the problems. Churchil was the first one who used mustard gas in Iraq. And what democacry exists in the UNO, a dictatorship of 5. so are all the academics and thinkers who speak terrorists!
    Umm Zainab, Bradford, United Kingdom

    Almost all posts here are one of Muslim solidarity, a belief that is pro – Muslim and anti - Western in every detail. Muslims are proud of their culture, religion and ethics. So, I dare ask, what you think of the so called “patriotic” parties of this country – the British National Party and the like. Surely, even though to many here they may be your sworn enemy, they do attempt to represent the indigenous peoples in much the same fervour as your own Muslim groups in this country.
    Andrew Jones, LIverpool, United Kingdom

    Umm zainab: speaking out against what is percieved to be injust is both within the rights and expected of british citizens. However acts of terrorism so often seen by so called "british muslims" are what result in the bad feeling between none muslims and muslims. How can we feel anything but poorly for people who live here, yet try to kill our soldiers in afghanistan etc?
    steve, london, United Kingdom

    All the Prophets[AS] came to societies they were part of but spoke out against the wrong practices. they faced ridicule, social boycott and torture for speaking the truth. Ibrahim [AS] was cast into the Fire by his people but Allah azza wa jal protected him. today all the muslims face the same ridicule and torture, both mental and physical.
    We must speak out in this ever increasing environment of bias media and islamphobia.
    Umm zainab, Bradford, United Kingdom

    Bismillah arhaman araheem. Br Abu saida: Asslamuakaum wr wb. The Messenger [PBUH] was born in Mecca but spoke out against the oppression in Mecca.He saw went on to establish Dar us islam in Yathrib [madina]. Home is where Justice is establshed and the society is based on elevated priciples which gives justice to all. In madina about half of the citizens were non muslims. since we were born here we have the right to stay but convey islam as we believe it to be true just like the Messenger [PBUH].
    Abdur Rahman, Leeds, United Kingdom

    To nicky : Lets not get carried away by saying muslims accept British citisenship and support terrorism. In this discussion the muslims are merely debating values. Which law are we breaking by discussing? or has the Law changed to guilty until proven inncocent? And what about state terrorism perpetuated by the US and UK? or is justice one sided?
    Read the new book about british foreign policy called 'web of deciet' by Mark curtis.The values you adopt must have intellectual reasoning.
    Mohammed Nawaz, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    In the name O Allah the Most Gracius the Most Beneficient. I truly believe whether you are british or not is not the main issue I beleive the main issue is are we proud to be muslims? are we true muslims who practice our religion? or are just muslims by name.What makes me despair is to see our young youth off the track of Islamin this country and muslims suffering due to war. I call home where I was born

    Abu Saida, London, United Kingdom

    In response to Bilal the Messenger [saw] said in meethaq al madina :
    'the muslms are one ummah to the exception of all others' see seerah ibn hisham.However there were jews and christians residing
    under the authority of Islam with full rights. And in response to Martin the muslims here bdo not show contempt for britain but contemp for capitalist values, injustice, bias, intolerance and clear cut oppression.Muslims seek to make a positive contribution to to the society without compromising.
    Abu Muadh, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    I too dont understand why muslims accept british citizenship then support terrorism and go to fight british soldiers abroad. If you hate our country so much. Then either use the law to change what you hate or live somewhere more to your liking. A friend told me islam states muslims should obey the laws of the land they live in, however this clearly isnot the case.

    If being british, and being muslim are incompatible then simply stop being british.
    nicky, wolverhampton, United Kingdom

    "Saheefat AlMadinah" that was the closest document to a "constitution". The Prophet PBUH stated in it that "Muslims and Jews are one nation". Now this refers to a "geographic nation (Ummah)", since in the Madina neigbourhood there were only Muslims and Jews. There is also a "cultural nation", this is what most Muslims refer to as the Ummah. Confusing the two is one cause of the confusion here. Neigbourhood in Islam has many obligations, regardless of the religion of one's neigbour. Loyalty, coop
    Bilal, Qatar

    I am a muslim, asking the question of wether i am a british muslim dosnt make sense to me, in islam there are no boundaries or nationalism, the issue of colour, race, creed, and nationality are irrelevant concepts brought about by the disbeleivers, nationlists and liberels to bring about disunity, loyalty to those other than Allah SWT and plain hatered towards those different from you, claiming that they may be less in status in some way or another.
    My identity is based upon islamic belief.
    Rabia Sabir, Nottingham, United Kingdom

    The great majority of Muslims here express great contempt for Britain and strongly assert their refusal of any British identity. Yet when British contributors say that they don't think Muslims belong in Britain, these same Muslims attack them. Why is that? It seems hypocritical. From the messages here, it's obvious that most Muslims want no part of Britain and no Briton that I know wants Muslims here. The solution is obvious. Muslims should leave to go and live in Muslim countries.
    Martin Brookes, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim and only a Muslim. Where I live is irrelevant. Britain has a good tradition of wanting to develop the full potential of each individual. Unfortunately, its leaders are the most inveterate enemies of Islam. I never despair of this hatred because Allah promises that the truth will knock the brain out of falsehood. I enjoy a good sporting contest without supporting particular nations. Home is wherever the Khilafah is re-established - until then I am merely wandering!
    Steve, Stockton-on-Tees, United Kingdom

    The comments from most of the non muslims shiow a clear misunderstanding of the muslim position and many are either reactionary or informed heavily by the media propoganda. Instead of emotional outbursts like why don't you leave the country, why don;'t they ask real question, what are islamic values, what are they based upon, did islam have a civilisation, whats adavances did the muslims make and what positive contribution can they make in this society? All muslims are saying is let us discuss.
    muadh, sheffield, United Kingdom

    to chris, The muslims do not preach hatred of the land they live in but they certainly like all
    justice loving peoples feel the ills of the capitalist system and the un ethical foreign policy. Values and identity should be based on thoughts. We should judge people on the thoughts they carry and the evidence they furnish to justify their position. We did not have a say in which place we were born but we certainly had a choice in which ideology we follow or do we take identity and values blindly.
    abdul Rahman, Leeds, United Kingdom

    I may have been born in the Britain, but I don’t hold any British values or criteria. My values, criteria for actions, etc. all originate from Islamic sources. Therefore my identity is Muslim and only Muslim. Where I was born has not shaped my identity at all.
    Hamid Niazi, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    In response to Chris, it is not the muslims who are living a lie but rather your own government, look to the lies about the Iraq dossier. Man made law can never provide security or peace for anyone let alone the muslims. There is no way you can change the policies of this country by working within a system based upon the desires of a few people at the top who will continously lie to fulfill their own selfish interests. Britain is commiting many terrorist activities alongside America in line with it's foreign policy objectives, look to any part of the world.
    Nisar Deen, Bradford, United Kingdom

    Britain has benefitted from immigration. People like Abu Hamza represent the problem, the many muslims who become british citizens yet preach hatred of the country they are now citizens of, encouraging terrorist acts. It is clear from these forums that muslims do not consider themselves british. Disagree with our policies? fine change them using the law NOT through terrorism. Feel no loyalty to britain?, then refuse citizenship. To accept citizenship while feeling no loyalty is to live a lie.
    chris, aldridge, United Kingdom

    With reference to lucy and why don't the muslims leave Britain if they do not like it? Well what kind of tolerance is that of other believes and where is our right to freedom of opinion. To question the poicies and political system is the right of all and just as soon as the colonialist leave the muslims world you will see many muslims returning to their lands joined by non muslims just like the many that earn tax free saleries in the gulf and do not reliquish their british identity.
    abdullah, barnsley, United Kingdom

    Many muslims complaign that they are portrayed negatively. Yet with so many openly saying their british citizenship is meaningless. What do you expect?. With so many muslims condoning terrorist attacks, and denouncing the country they live in, it is little surprise they have a negative image. If muslims do not have any interest in british citizenship, then do not settle or stay here. Immigration is a benefit to britain. But if muslims dislike britain and so much, then why not leave?.
    lucy, stratford, United Kingdom

    If somone asks what Religion i am i say - Muslim, and proud, but is somone asks what nationality i am i say - British, because thats where i was born, but i am first a Muslim, and British after.
    Brothers and sisters here, please remember that there are non-Muslims who respect us, on our side, and prepared to fight the evil with us.
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    The media and the government is a problem, in the media world America or Jewish people cannot be wrong or can do no wrong, yet Muslims are always terroits or terror suspects, Islam, the second biggest religion in Britain is not protected by the Race law but Judaisum and Sikhism is, dont you find that rather odd?
    Mohammed, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    I have always believed britain to have benefitted from immigration in the past. But now it seems we have a new breed of immigrant, those who take british citizenship. Yet feel no loyalty to the country they have moved to.
    I opposed the war, yet i would not go to iraq and fight british soldiers. Why do so many muslims in our country settle here, then preach hatred of our country, and go to fight our soldiers?.
    Surely, adopting british citizenship should involve at least some loyalty?
    anna, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    There are some people on this list who do not have respect for the countrywhich supports them. Is it not true you choose to stay for the material comfort this country provides. If you refuse to integrate with the existing society you are free to leave and live in a muslim country. You are also free to stay and practice your religion. That is Britishness. You have no right to disrespect this ancient and noble land which has existed for 100's and 1000's of years, before Islam was even founded.
    english man, leeds, United Kingdom

    In response to gary and biting the hand that feds you. With respect sir, this country needed cheap labour after the second world war
    and all people who came especially the muslims payed their taxes and are entitled to the said benefits.
    IE there is no such thing as a free lunch. As for the dictators in the third world they were all backed and placed until now by the
    colonialsists lead by britain. The sun didn't set on the British empire because God didn't trust them in the Dark.
    abumuadh, rotherham, United Kingdom

    Those who claim that by being born, work and living under the british law by default you become british. So, the 30,000 or so british nationalities living and working in Saudi Arabia under the so-called "Islamic Sharia Law", would they now be classed as Muslims/Arabian? I think not, rather, it is one's culture, values and the concepts that he carries gives him his identity.
    Nazrul Islam, Halifax, United Kingdom

    Is it not true that most muslim states are nothing more than dictatorships hiding behind the quoran?.Britain is in no way perfect(where is)but it is by far better than those 3rd world tinpot countries like pakistan.People who are quite happy to take all the benefits they can and then bite the hand that feeds them are hypocrites.I am not religous and feel pity at all you sad empty people who think there is something after death,you will be dust ,thats it
    Gary , Slough, United Kingdom

    There can only be one path a muslim follows and that is Islam a complete way of life which has given us our identity,values and a vision for our lives this give us a strong personality.Surely we saw the best example in Muhammad (saw) while He (saw) lived and worked in Makkah he (saw)never compromised on Islam. There can be no other answer then we are Muslims and belong to one Ummah.
    ummjanaan, Rochdale, United Kingdom

    IT seems that Britishness is being pushed down our throats with draconian legislation, a media onslaught against Muslims and Islam
    and to top it all those who have 'been supporting britain and our boys in the War on Iraq. Iraq
    basically showed that the majority of muslims are still loyal to Islam and the concept of ummah. It also exposed those that are loyal to the colonialists. The Messenger [PBUH} said 'this ummah is like one body, if any part feel pain the rest responds with fever.'
    M Nawaz, Sheffield, United Kingdom

    Some facts and figures might help this debate (for England and Wales, where 97% of UK Muslims live, Census 2001). 46% born in the UK, 52% under age of 25, only 32% are economically active (cf. nearly half general pop.), 9% are students (cf. 3% gen. pop.), 27% live in socially-rented properties. Many young Muslims live in poor inner city areas. How does anyone think that addressing issues of social exclusion can solves problems of "identity", if at all? And what role can religion play in this?
    Yahya Birt, Leicester, United Kingdom

    If eating fish & chips,wearing a pinstripe suit makes me british so be it,as this is ok with Islam but if supporting british troops in iraq makes me british than I am definitely not that.I have heard people say "why don`t we go back to where we came from?" We cannot go back, we all came from our mothers womb just like all other humans.I am a muslim living in UK no more no less, our values are extracted from our sources i.e Quran & Sunnah and not from situation or circumstances past or present.
    Abu Usayd, London, United Kingdom

    Allah (swt) created Man. Those who believed in him and the Message of Prophet Muhammed (saaw) are from the Ummah of Islam. Islam taught us that we are One Ummah. Not a British Ummah or British Muslim. Allah (swt) says in Surah (23:52). Your are One Ummah and I (Allah) Am Your Rabb. He did not distinguish between us except in the issue of Iman and Kuffar. We are on Iman and therefore If Allah (swt) describes us as Muslims, as in Surah Haj (22:78), where did British, Pakistan or Arab come into it.
    Jamil, Londaon, United Kingdom

    The prophet (saw) was from quraish, yet no one would dare claim that his identity was the same as the quraish. The prophet (saw) did not integrate nor did he isolate himself from that society, rather he Interacted to change their personalities to match his.
    So how can any one claim that just because we live in Britain then we now need to integrate and refer to ourselves as British Muslim. Would any one say the prophet was a qureshi muslim. No!
    Yasir Mahmood, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Dr. Navidul Haq (at the bottom) is spot on. We often act like a bunch of hypocrites. One moment we say we dislike nationalism, but are so pro Pakistan, or Iran, etc. I live in Britain, and love my country. Religious tolerance is abundance when compared to countries where Muslims are the majority. All these criticisms levelled at British soceiety with regards sexual freedom, etc - if you are a good Muslim,it wouldn't affect u and set an example. If you can't, then think about your values!
    Abu Ammar al Haroui, Harrow, United Kingdom

    An individual is defined by his/her values, so when we look to the muslims throughout the world not just in the UK they see themselves as one collective people not divided by borders (despite the efforts of the west).
    I have heard the voice of cowardice say that if we dont like it here we should leave. Such a notion does not belong in the mind of a muslim. We believe Islam is a complete system for life, it is superior to anything dreamed of by men and we will never accept secularising Islam.
    Mohammed Michael Rashid Khan, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Judging by the response from Muslims in the comments section - a large proportion of Muslims have not forgotten their identity. That is that we are 'Muslims'. Geography has no bearing.This is despite the attempts made by the government to integrate us - we reject this call, and hope that others do too. Our Muslim identity cannot be compromised on.May Allah grant us the success of not just uniting our minds but also our lands under one system: through the reestablishment of the Deen.
    Umm Marjan, London, United Kingdom

    asalaamu alaykum
    we are muslim! not defined by nationality, race etc. our identity is defined by our basis of beliefs -islam- we are one ummah with all muslims over the globe with the same identity.
    the problem is that some muslims have started to think using criteria other than islam e.g benefit. remember this life isa test: criteria 4 success is islam according quran and sunnah not the british constitution or as packaged in the USA
    may allah (swt) guide us to reestablish the deen.
    mohammed farak, stoke on trent, United Kingdom

    British or are we Muslim? It is not one of passports, afternoon tea and a stiff upper lip but more fundamentally one about values, culture and identity. Clearly there is vast difference in those espoused by Islam, and those that are British. If Muslims are to remain and be characterised as Muslims, they must understand and uphold nothing but the Islamic culture. Losing this culture and identity will mean the loss of everything that Islam stands for.
    Manzoor-ul Haq, London, United Kingdom

    The only identity I believe is relevant is that of Islam, my allegiance is to Allah and his Messenger (SAW) and unity is with the believers. I happen to reside/was born in UK. My duty is the same regardless of geography, ie adhere to Islam comprehensively.
    Abdul-Rashid Hamid, Slough, Berkshire, United Kingdom

    A British Muslim?
    I believe you are born a Muslim (or a convert). Being a British tell you nothing more than where you are from.A MUslim is a MUslim, here and whereever, now and in the afterlife.THe archangel won't ask if you a British or American or whatever.
    Islam teaches us to love ourselves, others and our motherland, no matter what. The question is: Are you standing up for your religion, or your nation?
    Sulaiman Selamat, Singapore, Singapore

    I feel proud to be known as British Muslim and on the top of that I feel also proud to be known as SHIA MUSLIM
    MOHAMED KASSAM, LONDON, United Kingdom

    The Westerners who live/work in the Arab/Muslim countries say they are "ex-pats": they do not integrate, they maintain their Western culture, lifestyle and habits & are proud of them, & display them to the locals to adopt. In the same way, the Muslims in the West must consider themselves as "ex-pats", & be proud to maintain our Islamic lifestyle, & resist any call to reject it for the bankrupt diseased culture we find here. One day we will return home to an Islamic State so lets be ready for it.
    Ziad, Bradford, United Kingdom

    i view myself as a muslim living in Britain.Islam is a complete way of life and has soloutions for all problems.Our identity is clear we are muslims and our values,beliefs and principples have to emantae from our aqeeeda.
    Islam covers all sapects of live from polititsc,economics,social and has soloutions to all problems faced by an individual and society.
    If by being British we condradict any part of Islam then this is not allowed our allegiance is to nothing but Islam.
    belal moahmmed, stoke-on-trent, United Kingdom

    I am very dissapointed that people evenconsider this question as valid. The reality of what you are saying is like "are you half muslim and half non-muslim". I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that our creator did not address us in the above ways but just as Muslims. Therefore anyone that is calling for muslims to be recognised as Pakistani muslims or even British Muslims is working with those who are trying to water down the pure thoughts of Islam.

    your Brother In Islam
    Bashurat Ali, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    We are Muslims Period.
    If we were in Occupied Palestine would we be "ISRAELI Musim" nauzubillah.
    Our Aqeedah is Islam our values come from Islam our solution is Islam. Integration into secularism is apostasy from Islam.
    "the jews and christians will never be pleased with you till you don't follow them" & "who takes them as friends is then one of them" [al Quran)
    May Allah destroy the hypocrite integrationist who are puppets of the west
    Yaser fasel, bradford, United Kingdom

    Aslamu Alykum i am muslim and proud to be one not a britsh one can you not see what brtish goverment is trying to do to the muslim they are trying to intergrate us into the western society we as muslim should not intergrate or isolate we should interact and expoes the western way of life of demcorcy the kafir system
    naeem, glasgow, United Kingdom

    Mr. Ramzan,has missed the point. There are within so-called Muslim societies many of the ills he has enumerated. That does not make anyone living in those societies any better Muslims than we are. As long as the Government of the country in which live, does not prevent us from salaat, Saum and the payment of Zakat and allows us to go for the Pilgrimage to Makkah then I see no conflict for a Muslim living in such societies. It is our choice that we want to live here, we're not forced to do so
    Dr. Navidul Haq Khan, London, United Kingdom

    I am a Muslim living in Britain; I don't believe that Muslim should be divided based on nationalism because, Quran and Sunnah have prohibited it.

    Britain is a place were I reside nothing more and nothing less.

    I believe that International sporting events are a means of promoting division and nationalism. Sport has been used by the international community as a vehicle to carry this dis-unifying idea to the masses, and we should reject all it's guises.

    Muslim nation is one nation.

    A. Milad Ali, London, United Kingdom

    Quite simply, if muslims in the country do not feel "british" as many here say they do not. And if they feel no loyalty to the country then why come here, and accept british citizenship?.

    We are tld by our media that most muslims in britain are an important part of british society, however eading this comments it seems many see our country as simply somewhere to "stay" while feeling no loyalty as british citizens.

    The comments surprise me,
    elle, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    Alot of people miss this point no one has a choice where they are born like me British born i had no influence in this decision so how can i then use this as a criteria to tie my self to a land and society it would be irrational. Rather Islam is a political and intellectual creed based on rationale so it dictates who i am a Muslim part of a glorious noble ummah and loyalty soley lies with not Britain or Bangladesh but Allah (swt) his messenger (saw)and where ever muslims are on the earth.
    Moynul Islam, London, United Kingdom

    Asalamu Alykum

    Muslims who calls themselves 'British Muslims'attribute themselves to the ingredients of British Society.
    We have our own islamic values which are incompatible with any other creed. There will always be a clash of cultures between Islam and the Secularists in West.
    British Muslim?
    Just like saying Halal Pork.
    Asalamu Alykum
    Mohammed Nasir, Dundee, United Kingdom

    I once met 2 'reformed' extremists from both side of the religious divide in N. Ireland, who now professed due 2 their Christian faith not to harbour those old hatreds any more. But when I spoke 2 them they had another identity equally divisive: anyone not working class seemed 2 be despised. I guess that's why this question doesn't interest me much. Identity depends on context. I can't help the fact that 2 other Muslims I'm English & 2 other Englishis I'm Muslim. & a Yorkshireman in the South...
    Bin Peter al Saxoni, London, United Kingdom

    Dr Navidul Haq Khan, what alot of rubbish!! i shall remind u what being a British means...

    1 Personal Freedom e.g Muslim girls should be free to date or marry non-Muslims?

    2 Freedom of Expression-the Western media should be free to slander the Prophet (saw)

    3 Sexual Freedom- Muslim youth should be free to express their sexuality anyway they choose?..& Muslim men should be free to commit adultery with women who consent?

    Who can say there is no conflict with being British and Muslim??
    Ramzan Haneef, Dundee, United Kingdom

    Saying that your a 'British Muslim' is like saying that you are a 'Christian-Muslim' or a 'Capitalist-Muslim' - the source of our values is only the Quran and Sunnah - nothing else. British values include believing in homosexuality as legitimate, that human beings have the right to determine laws regardless of what Allah says, etc. Islam and Kufr (non-Islam) cannot be mixed. We are only Muslims, where we reside is irrelevent to our identity.
    Abu Hafsa, Leicester, United Kingdom

    at the time of the prophet mohammed saw,there were some sahaba who were sent to abyssinia for protection.the muslims refused to bow to Negus the king cause they only bowed to the creator,even though this was the law,tradtion,ethics and customs in abyssinia.the muslims settled in abyssinia not as abyssinian muslims but as muslims in abyssinia.
    the criteria for us is hokum shari and not man made laws.
    israr baig, london, United Kingdom

    Was the Prophet of Islam Makkan or Muslim? it is the same question.

    There is good/bad in saying he was a Makkan for e.g. the Qibla(prayer direction) is in Mecca, BUT the society was based on Idol worship.

    There is good/bad in saying that we are British Muslims for e.g. we have Mosques here, BUT the society is based on utilitarianism.

    If we attribute a title of Makkan/British we are attributing ALL aspects of that society.

    The Prophet(saw) was only Muslim and so are we, period.

    Saeed, United Kingdom

    muhammed, bolton, United Kingdom

    aslam i am only muslim born in britain not a british muslim and i only go by the sharia not by the so called freedom that democrcy says aslam naveed G
    naveed, glasgow, United Kingdom

    To counteract James's derogatory comments about Muslim idleness and ineptitude I would say this:As British citizens we work and pay taxes.Historically,our Muslim ancestors in the Middle East made profound mathematical and scientific contributions. What did the Brits do?From the 1700's onwards they pilfered and plundered colonies not to mention India,where they exploited her resources and intensified communal conflicts via a policy of divide & rule.Profound contribution.Something to be proud of?
    Rehana Patel, Preston, United Kingdom

    In short i would say that the mosque leaders are failing to convey the true spirt of what being muslim means in a western struck society and secondly paretns are failing miserably at providing the right islamic upbringin to children. Most communities follow cultural traditions from back home which have very little to do with islam and thus we are left with a confused new genration of muslim youth who dont know what their true identity is. The muslims of brtiain need help and fast.
    hajiari, preston, United Kingdom

    In my opinion, there is no such thing as a "British Muslim". There are only Muslims who live in Britain, usually because it affords them a much higher standard of living than would any Muslim country. Muslims use Britain but do not belong to or contribute to it in any way that enhances the lives of British people.
    James Arthur, United Kingdom

    Rehana Patel hits the nail on the head. Nationalities are superflous, 'imagined communities' which have been created to give those in power at the time lasting power through the ages by dividing people up into illusionary ideals. [43:26] Abraham said to his father and his people, "I disown what you worship. [43:27]Only the One who initiated me can guide me.[43:28] This example(of Abraham)was rendered an everlasting lesson for subsequent generations; perhaps they redeem their souls." Illusions!
    Imran, United Kingdom

    The concept of identity contains many ambiguities. Nontheless I will attempt to define my Muslim identity with the words; 'There is no God but Allah and Muhammed is his messenger.'Such a strong conviction does not require a national identity created from artificial borders and boundaries. Although Islamic identity is transnational the Ummah has divided into factions. Unfortunately, the Ummah is like a house thats on fire with nobody willing to pass the bucket of water on.
    Rehana Patel, Preston, United Kingdom

    i'd like to ask halima, and others who share his view, what is so wrong with the british/western way of life? if it is so terrible, why choose to live here? at the bottom of this page Dr. Navidul Haq Khan offers a view that i hope is shared by all muslims.
    english man, United Kingdom

    What forms an identity is the criteria you use when engaging in action. A Muslim uses Halal and Haram when praying, getting married, engaging in politics etc. A British person uses the criteria of "benefit". He will worship god if he likes, will have a girlfriend / boyfriend if he wants, and do anything he thinks he will get pleasure from. So it's your criteria that decides whether you are Muslim or British. But there is no such thing as a "British Muslim" just as there is no "Halal pig".
    Shahjahan Malik, Reading, United Kingdom

    The question of identity has come to the forefront since 9/11 muslims living in the west have been forced to choose which side of the fence they are to answer this we need to understand the basis of the islamic belief. The islamic aqeedah is spiritual and political hence encompassing all spheres life. Islam transcends all nationalities thus providing muslims with a clear understanding of their identify, that they are muslim were ever they are. The tag of british muslim is a pretext to integrate
    imran, blackburn, United Kingdom

    i am a younag Muslimah from Bedford.i am 15 yrs old and from what i believe and know i would say that i appoin myself as being a Muslim only.i don't think it is right if you say that you are a British Muslim because that way it seeme as if you are accepting the British and western way of life and the western society too.we should always remember why we are here and the decisions we make should be according to is a test(life).May Allah(swt) be pleased with you all.
    halima, london, United Kingdom

    What home?: The modern Gipsy - No real home - but I feel part of the Islamic Nation.
    Helped fellow English friends at school with their English homework. Like helping old women cross the road.
    Frustrations: If I had pink hair, a pin through my nose and picked my nose, would be admired for my individuality. Have flowing beard, arab looking, feel that Islam is a better way, and want to deal with societal issues-"I'm a fun-de-mental-ist!" Complainer? Nah! -I'm Muslim - What could be better!?
    Sohaib Sandhu, London, United Kingdom

    muhammed zubair, Bolton, United Kingdom

    Muslims have to waken up in the uk.
    I am a white christian and can see clearly what is happening.Muslims are being made the scapegoat for all the ills in the world. Their crime is that they can see th USA for what it is, and know the real agenda. There are good christians who are on your side and fighting the same as muslims in south america, irish catholic suffered a holocaust at the hands of the British and still are dicriminated against. Christian and Muslim
    must unite against all evil
    Joe, United Kingdom

    This is for Mr. Ingleby from Copenhagen. To take up a position of hate for a group of people who repel you because of what they do or say is very easy. However, one cannot assume that the actions of a section of the Muslim population necessarily represent the teachings
    of Islam. If one is to take up an objective opinion about a Religion, one has to study its sources with an open mind and an objective attitude. May I recommend Muhammad the Seal of Prophets by Sir Zafrullah Khan as a source.
    Dr. Navidul Haq Khan, London, United Kingdom

    It's interesting that some of you,
    seem aware of Islams image problem.
    I'm an "Islamophobe" and supporter
    of the far-right, but these are reluctant positions that I'd give up if Muslims allowed me to do so. Unfortunately,a range of Muslim antics, from the Salman Rushdie affair on,have pushed me into this, but I would be genuinely happy to be proved wrong, if it could be proved to me that the nightmare image of Islam I've got fixed in my mind is wrong. As I said, a reluctant Islamophobe.
    Rob Ingleby, Copenhagen, Denmark

    I am happy to be a British Muslim. I am sometimes pickup upon because of my ethnic. But I remember my Lord and continue life.
    Qamar Uldin, Birmingham, United Kingdom

    I do not feel british at all

    I have and am still experiencing, racial, ethic, nationality, and religious discrimination since I came here 10 years ago
    A.Swaleh, London, Kenya

    I am a Muslim, but Muslim identiy in modern times is too often a justification for reactionary thinking and political allegience.

    The Prophet (aws) did not conquer Makka and rename it Allahstan.

    A Muslim is someone who submits to God and the truth, not tradition or groupthink. 'Muslim' should be synonimous with 'member of the human race', not 'monkey troop'!

    I dislike nationalism in all its forms, whether it be Pakistani, pan-Arab or Pathan tribal loyalty.
    Yunus Yakoub Islam, Huddersfield, United Kingdom

    I'm a white English-born convert to Islam, and personally I feel like I'm stuck between the two sometimes. Obviously the behaviour of non-muslims disgusts and upsets me all the time, but then on the other hand the behaviour of the muslims across the UK and the world embarrasses me just as much. It's hard to tell me friends about this beautiful religion when people calling themselves muslims commit crimes just as bad as the Western world's, and don't even practice our religion properly.
    Robert Emmins, Milton Keynes, United Kingdom

    Being a British Muslim of Pakistani origin does not pose any problems at all. The State does not obstruct my right to carry out my religious obligations. I am a practising Muslim and a loyal British Citizen. If the State starts interfering with my religious obligations I will struggle, within the Law to change things. If unsuccessful I will migrate. This is the example of the Holy Prophet (salAllaho alaihe wa sallam). I believe that some groups preaching hatred are leading double lives.
    Dr. Navidul Haq Khan, London, United Kingdom
    Last edited by abdulhakeem; 02-09-04, 10:42 PM.
    URGENT!!! your help is badly needed - fundraising for marriage