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Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

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  • Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

    Yaqut Hamawi whilst writing his description and notes about the area of Rayy, he says first the hanafis and shafis joined forces and expelled and refuted the shia, thereafter he adds, “Then the hanafis and the shafis began fighting, the shafis despite being less in number would always be victorious to the extent that the hanafis of ar-Rustaq would come to aid their fellow hanafis but to no avail. In the end only those from amongst the hanafis and shafis were saved who hid their madhab and turned their houses into places of shelter and if they had not done this then no one would have been saved.” (Mu’ajam al-Buldan 3/117 and Dhuhr al-Islam 1/80)

    Likewise and similarly he writes about Isbahan, “During this era and the time before around Isbahan and the surrounding areas due to the bigotry and partisanship of the shafis and hanafis, discord and dissension spread. A battle between them waged for 8 continuous days, when one would overpower the other they would destroy and demolish their houses and burn them and in doing so they would not feel any remorse or sorrow and this calamity befell a large group of people.” (Mu’ajam al-Buldan 1/209, al-Kamil 11/319, Dhuhr al-Islam 1/80)


    Allamah Ibn Athir said concerning the events of 323H, The status of the Hanabillah grew, so wherever they saw fermented alcohol they would spill it and wherever they saw a singer they would hit him and also brake the musical instrument. If they would see a man with a woman or children they would ask him who they were? If he replied correctly they would let him go and if not they would severely beat both of them and declare her to be a fahishah and then hand her over to the government officers.

    In the end Badr al-Kharshani made a public disorder announcement in Baghdad and said no two hanbalis can get together nor should anyone debate or quarrel with them and the Imams should recite Bismillah loudly. This then fulled the situation even more and if the hanbalis found a shafi they would severely beat him, rendering him unconscious.” (al-Kamil 8/307-308 and Dhuhr al-Islam 1/79-80).


    Allamah Ibn Athir also wrote concerning the events of 447H, he says? “The shafis and the hanbalis had severe standoffs and argumentations in Baghdad under the leadership of Abu Ali bin Fura and Ibn Tamimi both hanbalis. The hanbalis began to severely warn against reciting Bismillaah loudly in the prayer, from reciting the qunoot in the fajr prayer and the secondary Adnan. At one masjid they prohibited the imam from reciting Bismillaah loudly in the prayer. So the imam bought the Quran to them and told them to erase the words of Bismillaah from the Quran so that he does not have recite it loudly.” (al-Kamil 9/614)

    And in the events leading upto 475H he wrote that the Shaikh Sharif Abul Qasim al-Bakri al-Maghribi came to Baghdad and he was an Asha’ari Shafi. He delivered lectures in Madrassah Nizamiyyah and he said whilst addressing the Hanabillah whilst reciting the ayah (Soorah al-Baqarah:102), “Sulaiman (Alayhis Salam) did not commit kufr but shaytan did and by Allaah I do not say (Imam) Ahmad committed kufr but his followers are kafirs!!!” (Siyar A’laam an-Nabula 18/562, al-Kamil 10/134)
    Last edited by ZeeshanParvez; 16-08-14, 05:15 PM.
    Watch those eyes

  • #2
    Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

    In the same Madrassah of Nizamiyyah when the son of Shaikh Abdul Karim Abul Qasim al-Qushairi, Abu Nasr came to Baghdad in 469H he delivered lectures and admonitions in the Madrassah. He was Asha’ari and hence had a vehement difference with the Hanbalis. So this distension and extreme animosity between the two became so propelled and violent that a group of them died in the fighting and killing that pursue. (Wafyat al-A’yan 3/208, Dhail Tabaqat al-Hanabillah 1/19-21, Siyar al-A’lam an-Nabula 18/319)

    Shaikh Sha’arani (author of Mezaan al-kubra and a Shafi scholar born in Qalqanshada, Egypt in 898/1493. He died in Cairo in 973/1565) said,

    “Most of the Muqallideen have very evil thoughts about the other Imams. It has been relayed to us that the Hanafis and Shafis of Wara Nahr abandon fasting in the month of Ramadhan so that they maintain their energy whilst refuting each others evidences and proofs.” (Meezan al-Kubra 1/43)





    Source

    التعصب المذهبي في التاريخ الإسلامي مظاهره ، آثاره ، أسبابه ، علاجه - Madhabi Fanaticism in Islamic History - its effects and causes
    Last edited by ZeeshanParvez; 20-08-14, 05:18 PM.
    Watch those eyes

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    • #3
      Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

      this happened when imam hanbal , shafi and hanafi were alive or was it the doing of their students?



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      • #4
        Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

        I've come across many references to the four madhahib holding separate congregational prayers in the haram (!). How accurate is that?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
          I've come across many references to the four madhahib holding separate congregational prayers in the haram (!). How accurate is that?
          I heard that still happens and theres like 20 jamats there
          [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][B][U][CENTER]Oh Allah, in your name, I die and live.[/CENTER][/U][/B][/FONT][/SIZE]
          [CENTER]:):lailah::lailah::lailah::lailah::)[/CENTER]

          [B][CENTER]Ya Allah, Grant Me A Heart That Sees[/CENTER][/B]

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          • #6
            Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

            Originally posted by zantz View Post
            I heard that still happens and theres like 20 jamats there
            the barelvis actually don't pray behind the imam i hear in mekkah and medinah when they go for umrah and hajj ..... how true is that?



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            • #7
              Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

              the way OP has presented these madhab wars , seems its a genuine issue which was more disastrous then any outer enemy attacking muslims.



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              • #8
                Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                I've come across many references to the four madhahib holding separate congregational prayers in the haram (!). How accurate is that?
                Wasn't this only in the latter period of the Ottomans?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                  Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
                  Wasn't this only in the latter period of the Ottomans?
                  I believe it was relatively recent. I wonder what led to spitting up. Can't be the 'fiqhi' differences alone.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                    I think they should bring those 4 mihraabs back to the haramain so people can actually study whatever madhab they want to and not be stuck to study the hanbali madhab if they are from say india or zanzibar.
                    Those 4 madhab corners were origonanally to study fiqh and usool fiqh.

                    but the saudis like any other modern group decided to throw the baby with the bathwater. They did the same thing with recital of other Qiraat now all you hear is hafs ,no warch or abu amr.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                      I've come across many references to the four madhahib holding separate congregational prayers in the haram (!). How accurate is that?
                      Originally posted by noobz View Post
                      the barelvis actually don't pray behind the imam i hear in mekkah and medinah when they go for umrah and hajj ..... how true is that?
                      The separate congregational prayers is real enough

                      Don't know about barelwis but sifis I personally know redo their salah after. They do the prayers behind the imam as they have something about completing a set number in the masjid for hajj to be valid, but redo them after

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                        Originally posted by AhlulQuran88 View Post
                        I think they should bring those 4 mihraabs back to the haramain so people can actually study whatever madhab they want to and not be stuck to study the hanbali madhab if they are from say india or zanzibar.
                        Those 4 madhab corners were origonanally to study fiqh and usool fiqh.

                        but the saudis like any other modern group decided to throw the baby with the bathwater. They did the same thing with recital of other Qiraat now all you hear is hafs ,no warch or abu amr.

                        This is so wrong. this wasn't about study it was about salah. different salah taking place in the same place. Unity of muslims is to be in one jamaat

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                          Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
                          This is so wrong. this wasn't about study it was about salah. different salah taking place in the same place. Unity of muslims is to be in one jamaat
                          Brother people also studied there and i am choosing to point that out because someone pointed out that they prayed separate jamaat which i think is sad to say the least.
                          Just because they erred in that regard is no reason to remove the mihrabs and remove all educational activities that took place there is all i am saying.
                          but we love to go over the top with everything

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                          • #14
                            Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                            Originally posted by AhlulQuran88 View Post
                            Brother people also studied there and i am choosing to point that out because someone pointed out that they prayed separate jamaat which i think is sad to say the least.
                            Just because they erred in that regard is no reason to remove to mihrabs and remove all educational activities that took place there is all i am saying.
                            studying isn't an issue the mihrab were about separate prayers bro

                            I pray jummah locally but don't study with them as they are TJ. I have plenty of places to go to study.

                            akhie the haramain shouldn't be split and we have this from the scholars that a khalif or an amir can implement his own opinion, as long as it is valid.
                            Basically if we got a khalif he could make us stand with arms on chest.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Madhab fanaticism of the past - Let's not try to repeat it

                              Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
                              studying isn't an issue the mihrab were about separate prayers bro

                              I pray jummah locally but don't study with them as they are TJ. I have plenty of places to go to study.

                              akhie the haramain shouldn't be split and we have this from the scholars that a khalif or an amir can implement his own opinion, as long as it is valid.
                              Basically if we got a khalif he could make us stand with arms on chest.
                              Nobody is contesting that those mihrab were for salah my point simply was that people studied there between prayer times
                              If it wasn't an issue then why are there no lessons of other madhabs in the haram any more ,public ones where people can sit and benefit from that particular fiqh ?

                              I am also not contesting that an amir cannot enforce his opinion , I just think its sad that the haram a meeting place of all muslims of all regions of the world can't attend a fiqh class of a scholar that teaches the same fiqh text they studied in their home lands. it is just sad state of affairs in general brother

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