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The Fitnah of Takfir

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    #31
    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Originally posted by Debater View Post
    Persia was not hostile but it was invaded.
    Proof of your ignorance on the topic.

    Originally posted by Debater View Post
    And they rejected peace because they were Muslims or Kafirs?
    They rejected peace because of their history with the Arabs. Please go read the History of Islam and Arabia before you ask such basic questions insha'Allah.

    Originally posted by Debater View Post
    A person who rejects peace (Islam) is a Muslim in your dictionary?
    Are you a Muslim? You have rejected peace many times from what I have seen in your posts.

    My definition of Muslim is according to the Qur'an.

    "'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."" Qur'an 3:52

    Jesus (as) was a Muslim, and his disciples were Muslim. Go do some more research, figure out what it really means to be Muslim according to Allah (SWT).

    Originally posted by Debater View Post
    Do you mean a person cannot be a kafir but a country can be kafir?
    I don't know where you got this idea from.

    A person can be a kafir, but only Allah (SWT) knows who is concealing the truth in their hearts (definition of kufr).

    A country doesn't have a soul, how can a country be a kafir?

    Originally posted by Debater View Post
    Many scholars talked about it because you were not born then, now they have stopped talking about it, right?
    There are still many scholars talking about Islam, alhamdulilah.

    Here is a lecture of a scholar, listen to him and it will benefit you a lot insha'Allah
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMfWURGcvBI
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

    Comment


      #32
      Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

      Originally posted by Debater View Post
      Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?
      Yes.

      It's wrong to invade other people's lands.

      We have some recent examples about this, right ?

      Comment


        #33
        Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

        Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
        Nope.

        They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns. They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered,.
        So, starting from Arabia, they offered peace, and it was refused.

        So, they invaded Syria. They offered peace, and it was refused. So, they invaded, Palestine. Then Egypt. Then, Lybia.

        Tunesia. Algeria. Morocco.

        Then, Spain. Southern France.

        Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily. Southern Italy. Why, they even sacked Rome ....

        All those people just needed to be killed and conquered....

        How could you possibly believe this total nonsense ?

        Arab invaders were mainly after political power and booty. Just like your average imperialist.

        Of course, having a justification (religion, democracy, WMDs etc) is soooo much better.... right ?

        Comment


          #34
          Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

          B]Volume:5 Book :59 Number :638, Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:[/B]
          'Ali bin Abi talib sent a piece of gold not yet taken out of its ore, in a tanned leather container to Allah's Apostle . Allah's Apostle distributed that amongst four Persons: 'Uyaina bin Badr, Aqra bin Habis, Zaid Al-Khail and the fourth was either Alqama or Amir bin At Tufail. On that, one of his companions said, "We are more deserving of this (gold) than these (persons)." When that news reached the Prophet , he said, "Don't you trust me though I am the truth worthy man of the One in the Heavens, and I receive the news of Heaven (i.e. Divine Inspiration) both in the morning and in the evening?" There got up a man with sunken eyes, raised cheek bones, raised forehead, a thick beard, a shaven head and a waist sheet that was tucked up and he said, "O Allah's Apostle! Be afraid of Allah." The Prophet said, "Woe to you! Am I not of all the people of the earth the most entitled to fear Allah?" Then that man went away. Khalid bin Al-Wahd said, "O Allah's Apostle! Shall I chop his neck off?" The Prophet said, "No, for he may offer prayers." Khalid said, "Numerous are those who offer prayers and say by their tongues (i.e. mouths) what is not in their hearts." Allah's Apostle said, "I have not been ordered (by Allah) to search the hearts of the people or cut open their bellies." Then the Prophet looked at him (i.e. that man) while the latter was going away and said, "From the offspring of this (man there will come out (people) who will recite the Qur'an continuously and elegantly but it will not exceed their throats. (They will neither understand it nor act upon it). They would go out of the religion (i.e. Islam) as an arrow goes through a game's body." I think he also said, "If I should be present at their time I would kill them as the nations a Thamud were killed."
          http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
          O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

          Comment


            #35
            Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

            They deleted my thread about love for people.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

              Originally posted by truffaut View Post
              Yes.

              It's wrong to invade other people's lands.

              We have some recent examples about this, right ?
              It's right to invade satanic Christian's and Jewish Pagan's lands and implement shar'iyah over there because these Pagans have enslaved slaves of Allah and don't let them obey Him.
              Recent examples of Kafir invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan demands Muslims to wage Jihad against Satanic Christians and Jews and kick them out of there and they are already doing that mashaAllah.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                Originally posted by PleaseThink View Post
                They deleted my thread about love for people.
                Perhaps they knew that your infallible imams didn't love people but cursed them in their duas.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                  Originally posted by truffaut View Post
                  So, starting from Arabia, they offered peace, and it was refused.

                  So, they invaded Syria. They offered peace, and it was refused. So, they invaded, Palestine. Then Egypt. Then, Lybia.

                  Tunesia. Algeria. Morocco.

                  Then, Spain. Southern France.

                  Sardinia, Corsica, Sicily. Southern Italy. Why, they even sacked Rome ....

                  All those people just needed to be killed and conquered....

                  How could you possibly believe this total nonsense ?

                  Arab invaders were mainly after political power and booty. Just like your average imperialist.

                  Of course, having a justification (religion, democracy, WMDs etc) is soooo much better.... right ?
                  They liberated slaves of Allah from the slavery of Christian pagans.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                    Originally posted by Debater View Post
                    It's right to invade satanic Christian's and Jewish Pagan's lands and implement shar'iyah over there and blah blah blah.
                    you are a joke, and a disgrace to Islam

                    apart from that, an outstanding guy

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                      Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                      They rejected peace because of their history with the Arabs. Please go read the History of Islam and Arabia before you ask such basic questions insha'Allah.
                      Islam is not about nationalism, the Jihad in Persia had nothing to do with their enmity with Arabs. Go to school and finish your course of history.

                      Are you a Muslim? You have rejected peace many times from what I have seen in your posts.
                      Your eyes have defects, they don't show you things clearly.

                      My definition of Muslim is according to the Qur'an.

                      "'Iesa (Jesus) came to know of their disbelief, he said: "Who will be my helpers in Allah's Cause?" Al-Hawariun (the disciples) said: "We are the helpers of Allah; we believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims (i.e. we submit to Allah)."" Qur'an 3:52

                      Jesus (as) was a Muslim, and his disciples were Muslim. Go do some more research, figure out what it really means to be Muslim according to Allah (SWT).
                      Change your definition:

                      قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ

                      109:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!


                      I don't know where you got this idea from.
                      Luckily, not from you.

                      A person can be a kafir, but only Allah (SWT) knows who is concealing the truth in their hearts (definition of kufr).
                      Where in Quran does it say that only Allah knows who is kafir and Allah doesn't let Muslims know of it?

                      A country doesn't have a soul, how can a country be a kafir?
                      A country doesn't have soul then how come it's offered peace, you genius?

                      So you are the follower of Shaykh Youtube?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                        Originally posted by truffaut View Post
                        you are a joke, and a disgrace to Islam

                        apart from that, an outstanding guy
                        Christian and Jewish terrorists are a disgrace to humanity.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                          Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                          I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

                          You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

                          Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.

                          You may THINK and you may PERCEIVE that someone goes against Qur'an and Sunnah, but the responsibility of determining if that person really is going against Qur'an and Sunnah is the head of the Islamic state, and then they will try that person according to Shariah. And if the person warrants punishment according to Shariah, then they will receive Shariah's punishment justly in this life. But ALLAH IS THEIR JUDGE in the next life.

                          You do not even have the responsibility nor the authority to judge according to Shariah IN THIS LIFE, let alone to call someone kafir and say they are occupants of hell in the next. ASTAGFIRULLAH.

                          It may be that you call someone kafir because they praise Ali(AS) and then tomorrow you are praising Ali(AS) so you just called yourself kafir!

                          It may be that you call a drunk a kafir because he doesn't believe in Islam! It may be that you are drunk tomorrow and not believing in Islam!

                          So guard yourself from Shaytan! Seek refuge with Allah!
                          no one calls people kaafir for praising Ali :RA:, praising the sahaba is a good thing. but if someone raises anyones status so that its equal to prophethood then thats kufr, because it undermines the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad :saw:
                          also no one calls people kaafir for being drunk; being drunk is a sin not kufr.



                          takfir is not a fitna, because it is a part of Islam and its from the practice of the sahaba. excessive takfir is dangerous though.
                          http://kondori.wordpress.com/

                          Like this page on FB
                          HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

                          Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

                          "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

                          "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
                          Shaykh Akram Nadwi


                          Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


                          http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

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                            #43
                            Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                            Originally posted by IDK View Post
                            brother, this is like for example the prophet saws said, may Allah curse the adulterers but you cant curse a single adulterer, this is what the scholars say, so similarly while Allah may call christians or whoever kuffar, you cant call a single person that because you dont know what is in the heart of this person, it is not what you call yourself but what you actually are in your heart, just like someone may call themselves a salafi but in fact not follow the salafs at all, so it is not what you call yourself but what you have in your heart, and since each heart is differnt we cannot say that for a particular person
                            if they hold beliefs that take them out of Islam, then we cant call them Muslim.
                            http://kondori.wordpress.com/

                            Like this page on FB
                            HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

                            Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

                            "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

                            "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
                            Shaykh Akram Nadwi


                            Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


                            http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                              Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
                              no one calls people kaafir for praising Ali :RA:, praising the sahaba is a good thing. but if someone raises anyones status so that its equal to prophethood then thats kufr, because it undermines the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad :saw:
                              also no one calls people kaafir for being drunk; being drunk is a sin not kufr.



                              takfir is not a fitna, because it is a part of Islam and its from the practice of the sahaba. excessive takfir is dangerous though.
                              Quote the Qur'an if you're truthful.
                              http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                              O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                                Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                                Quote the Qur'an if you're truthful.
                                If you can read Quran, read Surah al Kafirun.

                                Comment

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