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The Fitnah of Takfir

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    #16
    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

    Originally posted by PleaseThink View Post
    What are the Mustafeen in Quran that God says he may forgive them and he is forgiving?

    There is others classifications then Mustafeen in the middle of neither this and that, but I just gave one example.
    Their is no midle , not in Quran , not in Hadith about belief ,their is muslim and nonmuslims.

    The questions where clear and the answers should be clear .

    Person wich dosnt belive what we beleive he can not be muslim , so he is kafir , it is simple as that , the person wich dosnt believe like christians beleive he can not be christian , the person wich is not jew he can not have jew faith is he has hindu faith.


    You are wasting your time with your phylosophy , this is Islam , dosnt have phylosophy in it .
    “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

    Comment


      #17
      Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

      Originally posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
      If one person dosnt believe what we muslim believ , what is he , is he muslim or what ?

      And their is no midle , he must be or muslim or nonmuslim .

      The one wich is not muslim is kafir .

      Do you know the word muslim what it means , and to you know what word Islam means ?
      Adam(as) and Ibrahim(as) were Muslims before Qur'an was revealed to Muhammad(saws), the basic requirement of faith is "La ilaha ilallah".

      Here is the most important thing to keep in mind.... Tomorrow you could say "I believe in two gods" and an atheist could say "I believe in Allah". You do not know what will happen tomorrow, so if you call someone a disbeliever, then you are assuming to have knowledge that only Allah (SWT) has. You do not know what will become of that person in the future, you do not know what is in their hearts now, and you do not know the extent of Allah (SWT)'s Mercy as Ar-Raheem, The Most Merciful. We do not know what happens exactly upon death, time could 'stop' for them and the person could be given the opportunity by Allah (SWT) to repent and accept Allah (SWT), for example. We really do not have this knowledge which belongs only to Allah (SWT). Did Allah (SWT) call anyone a Kafir in the Qur'an and say that they will goto hell and we can call them kafir safely?

      Be cautious akhi, do not be a judge.
      http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
      O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

      Comment


        #18
        Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

        Originally posted by PleaseThink View Post
        Submitter/at peace, Submission/peace.
        Submiter is for the word Muslim , it mean Submiter to Allah and not to the peace , but Submiter to Allah only

        Islam mean this :

        Word Islam comes from two word's Taslim (Surender) and Salam (Peace)

        From this word, Taslim and Salam we understand what is Islam

        1.Surender-Surender to Allah without any conditions, without hesitation, but a total surender, from the word Taslim was word Islam

        2.submission-submission should be done in obedience to Allah and not in vain , but with heart and convinced

        3.sincerity-surendering and obedience should be done with sincerity to Allah, we should doo with sincerity and not for reasons of world

        4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced

        5.Surendering and Obedience with free will to Allah, submission io peace, implementing all those 4 points up in peace with Allah, without any violence from someone or something, applies to all point's with free will and being satisfied with thos action

        So this is Islam,Surender, Obedeince to Allah in peace(with free will)
        “Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.”

        Comment


          #19
          Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

          Originally posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
          4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced
          Akhi, by this definition, which I agree with: the 5 definitions which make up the word Islam, I agree entirely...

          But by this definition "Implementation", don't you think those people who take part in Takfir are not implementing Islamic practice and faith?

          Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us judging other people; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us calling people disbelievers; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us being harsh; Qur'an and Sunnah warn against us speaking in a way that will distract people from the truth (ie: if you call someone a disbeliever, kafir, etc, they are not going to like you, and therefore they are not going to want to become a Muslim); etc....

          Did Muhammad(saws) or any of the scholars and Imams who were responsible for the conversions of millions of people call them Kafir? "Hey you're a kafir, come listen to what I have to say" lol astagfirullah

          They spoke words of kindness and treated them gently. The only harshness from them was that which was ordained by Allah (SWT) and that is when someone is a clear enemy to you, when they threaten your life and the life of innocent people.



          Look brother, please, don't just listen to what I'm telling you, but please inshallah listen to Rasoolallah (saws), okay? Please, read this Hadith inshallah, look at how Rasoolallah(saws) handled a non-Muslim:

          A Bedouin came to Rasul Allah and told him, "Give me from what Allah gave you, not from the wealth of your mother nor from the wealth of your father." The Sahaabah were furious at the man and step forward to discipline him for what he said. Rasul Allah commanded everyone to leave him.

          Then by the hand, Rasul Allah took him home, opened his door and said, "Take what you wish and leave what you wish." The man did so and after he completed, Rasul Allah asked him, "Have I honored you?" "Yes, by Allah," said the Bedouin. "Ash hadu an laa ilaaha illa Allah, wa ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasul Allah." (Meaning he embraced Islam)

          When the Sahabah heard of how the man changed, Rasul Allah taught them. "Verily the example of myself, you and this Bedouin is that of a man who had his camel run away. The townspeople tried capturing the camel for him by running and shouting after the camel, only driving it further away. The man would shout, 'Leave me and my camel, I know my camel better.' Then he took some grass in his hand, ruffled it in front of the camel, until it came willingly.

          'By Allah, had I left you to this Bedouin, you would have hit him, hurt him, he would have left without Islam and eventually have entered hellfire."


          Subhanallah akhi, this Hadith speaks in favor of everything I have said, please inshallah correct me if I am wrong, but Muhammad(saws) has said himself to the Sahabah that if they treated the non-Muslim harshly by hitting him, hurting him, insulting him, then the non-Muslim would have never entered Islam! Imagine if you were responsible for someone hating Islam! Astagfirullah! Look at what acts of terrorists have done to the image of Islam, causing all sorts of hatred and misunderstanding! Astagfirullah! This is serious akhi, please inshallah see the error in your thinking. This is not a debate about who is right and who is wrong, astagfirullah, I hate to say that you're wrong but this is very serious and we cannot let our pride and our Nafs (egos) get in the way of the truth... Look at the Ahadith, look at the Qur'an akhi.... please tell me where either Allah (swt) or Rasoolallah(saws) have allowed you to call someone a kafir or to insult anyone in any way, whether by Takfir or any other manner.

          Jazakallah khayr, Asaalamu alaikum,
          http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
          O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

          Comment


            #20
            Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

            Originally posted by Dhulkarnein View Post
            Submiter is for the word Muslim , it mean Submiter to Allah and not to the peace , but Submiter to Allah only

            Islam mean this :

            Word Islam comes from two word's Taslim (Surender) and Salam (Peace)

            From this word, Taslim and Salam we understand what is Islam

            1.Surender-Surender to Allah without any conditions, without hesitation, but a total surender, from the word Taslim was word Islam

            2.submission-submission should be done in obedience to Allah and not in vain , but with heart and convinced

            3.sincerity-surendering and obedience should be done with sincerity to Allah, we should doo with sincerity and not for reasons of world

            4.Implementation-implementation or practice with our deed's to prove our surender,obedience and sincerity to Allah, our conviction and sincerity should be practiced

            5.Surendering and Obedience with free will to Allah, submission io peace, implementing all those 4 points up in peace with Allah, without any violence from someone or something, applies to all point's with free will and being satisfied with thos action

            So this is Islam,Surender, Obedeince to Allah in peace(with free will)

            Everyone has light forces and dark forces.

            Satan wants to overcome the human and destroy the blessed book and treasure he was originated on and stray away from blessed orientiation he was originally on.

            But the condition of what a submitter and kaffer is, is that the latter rejects the truth when shown to them and is in a state of opposition. The Submitful humans on the other hand, when they become convinced of the truth, will submit to the truth.

            Now one of the traits of those whom cover the truth is they have pride and lack virtues. One of the traits of deniers of Yamal Qiyama, those whom cover that, when it's proven to them, is that they don't care about orphans or the poor. This can be seen in one blessed Surah showing the wretched state of these people. They don't want justice to reign and orphans to cared for and poor to be enriched. We see some people are like this as well today, they care less of the state of third world countries and are quite sastified with the oppressive system in place of the world adn even support it.

            Those verses show those whom love justice and goodness, if you can show them the truth, they would submit to it, because their hearts are inclining towards goodness.

            Islam that you present, yes maybe someone will not accept it. I can't accept your Islam, I find it dry, dogmatic, and ugly. But you can't judge a person if he rejects what you present.

            The way the Prophets (as) present the truth, teach what the human is, where he is heading to, the hidden world and the day the truth of reality will manifest and shine, is taught in majestic noble way, in beautiful way, and in reality, this knowledge of the human Soul, and the book, is lost in the masses today.

            There are some people when reminded of Spiritual Reality and the Light, and the beautiful names, hate it, and hate the truth and want to deny the Glory and Light, so to be sastified in low states and stations, out of love of self, if that hate leads to them of ignoring evidence and not become submissive to it, they are disbelievers.

            Warning of hell is emphasized so people think again about denying what has become clear to them, undoubtably if a person is stubborn to the truth and fights it's people after it's shown to them, they are condemn harshly. It's these people that you read of their ugly traits and were labelled Kuffar in Quran.

            There is people with these traits today, but you shouldn't generalize it on everyone.

            A lot of people if you can convince them with bright proofs, intuitive reminders, tell them kindly with a kind word of the Unseen Name of his Lord he is being called to, and in there lies the peace and tranquility he seeks, the beauty and honor longed for, then he will awaken.

            If you make it harsh, and present nothing but dogmas, and present this empty rituals and rules form of religion that is devoid of the spirit of love and attraction to pure elect high beautiful souls, not everyone is going to accept it, nor are they are Kuffar and haters of the Deenal Haq if they don't.

            Indeed some people when presented the Deenal Haq hate it, and this includes people called Muslims. Some people go against clear Tawheed they know of and cover the truth of Tawheed even if they know they are wrong, and they are the foremost people calling others Kuffar when they have the foremost trait of it.


            People whom didn't find a way to reject or accept the truth because the proof was hidden from them, they were excused according to Quran, and God said he may forgive them.

            Today the beautiful religion has many faces. People are confused as to what the book really teaches with all sorts of bad interpretations that are ugly attributions to God.

            We all have to work to revive the beautiful religion that mankind will one day all come to and love, the religion that only people whom wish to be animals and take honor in that, rather then humans and take honor in our Spiritual origin and beautiful book of treasures we originated on will reject.


            I'm not convinced most Christians are Kuffar. Sorry but I live amongst them and many tend to love the truth when presented to them.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: The Fitnah of Takfir



              Please note that just because a person says the Shahadah does not gaurantee that he/she is a Muslim, just as, for example, person who upholds justice but practices all forms of injustice, to continue to call him a just person, even if he proclaims to the world that he is just, is making a mockery of language and the intelligence.

              Shahadah does tell us that a person is a Muslim, but only as long as he/she does not uphold beliefs and ideas that negate it. If one were to uphold the view you seemingly do, then you would not be able declare anyone a disbeliever no matter how anti-Quranic and opposed to the clear teachings of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) they are. You would have to concede that even the Qadianis are Muslim as too are the Kharijis for they both pronounce the Shahadah, yet about the latter the Prophet (SAW) himself said, they would leave the Deen just as an arrow goes through its target (Sahih Muslim).

              Furthermore, this is not and never has been the approach of the best of generations and the Muslim scholars for the last 1400 years. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) with all the companions fought and killed those who denied Zakah, even though they would recite the Shahadah. The companions did this because these people had apostated from Islam, which is why those wars are known in Islamic History as the Riddah Wars (Apostasy wars).

              Similarly Islamic History testifies that Muslim scholars, in order to protect the pure Deen from corruption and the Ummah from misguidance, often declared as apostates or disbelievers individuals who held views that could not be reconciled in any way with the very teachings of the two entities found in the Shahadah.

              It will be clear to see for any objective person that this internal mechanism Islam has had to protect it from corruption is such a distinction that it helps prove its being the true Religion and divinely revealed. All other religions did, as you wish for Muslims to do, namely they let whatever erroneous baseless heresies reared their heads amongst them to take shelter under the name of the religion. Yet do you not see the absurdity of this, that something that is not only not revealed, but is in fact contrary to what is revealed, is somehow to be made equal to real revelation?

              Would we be so accommodating in worldly matters? If someone wished to buy another’s car and pulled out a pile of monopoly money, according to your principle the seller should happily accept the payment. But obviously you would never allow this, then why is it that when it comes to the most important of things: the Deen, upon which clings our eternal salvation or ruin we are prepared to make anything and everything the Religion of God.

              The Deen of Islam is that which the Holy Messenger (SAW) brought. Allah taala said: "Today I have perfected for you your Deen and completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Religion" (Sura al-Maidah:3). This verse was revealed right at the end of the Messenger of Allah’s (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) mission. Thus when we look to the teachings of the Aga Khanis (& other deviant sects) we find clear violations of this and other sacred texts.

              As-Suffa Institute
              http://kondori.wordpress.com/

              Like this page on FB
              HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

              Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

              "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

              "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
              Shaykh Akram Nadwi


              Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


              http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

              Comment


                #22
                Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post


                Please note that just because a person says the Shahadah does not gaurantee that he/she is a Muslim, just as, for example, person who upholds justice but practices all forms of injustice, to continue to call him a just person, even if he proclaims to the world that he is just, is making a mockery of language and the intelligence.

                Shahadah does tell us that a person is a Muslim, but only as long as he/she does not uphold beliefs and ideas that negate it. If one were to uphold the view you seemingly do, then you would not be able declare anyone a disbeliever no matter how anti-Quranic and opposed to the clear teachings of the Messenger of Allah (SAW) they are. You would have to concede that even the Qadianis are Muslim as too are the Kharijis for they both pronounce the Shahadah, yet about the latter the Prophet (SAW) himself said, they would leave the Deen just as an arrow goes through its target (Sahih Muslim).

                Furthermore, this is not and never has been the approach of the best of generations and the Muslim scholars for the last 1400 years. Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) with all the companions fought and killed those who denied Zakah, even though they would recite the Shahadah. The companions did this because these people had apostated from Islam, which is why those wars are known in Islamic History as the Riddah Wars (Apostasy wars).

                Similarly Islamic History testifies that Muslim scholars, in order to protect the pure Deen from corruption and the Ummah from misguidance, often declared as apostates or disbelievers individuals who held views that could not be reconciled in any way with the very teachings of the two entities found in the Shahadah.

                It will be clear to see for any objective person that this internal mechanism Islam has had to protect it from corruption is such a distinction that it helps prove its being the true Religion and divinely revealed. All other religions did, as you wish for Muslims to do, namely they let whatever erroneous baseless heresies reared their heads amongst them to take shelter under the name of the religion. Yet do you not see the absurdity of this, that something that is not only not revealed, but is in fact contrary to what is revealed, is somehow to be made equal to real revelation?

                Would we be so accommodating in worldly matters? If someone wished to buy another’s car and pulled out a pile of monopoly money, according to your principle the seller should happily accept the payment. But obviously you would never allow this, then why is it that when it comes to the most important of things: the Deen, upon which clings our eternal salvation or ruin we are prepared to make anything and everything the Religion of God.

                The Deen of Islam is that which the Holy Messenger (SAW) brought. Allah taala said: "Today I have perfected for you your Deen and completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your Religion" (Sura al-Maidah:3). This verse was revealed right at the end of the Messenger of Allah’s (sallallaahu alaihi wa sallam) mission. Thus when we look to the teachings of the Aga Khanis (& other deviant sects) we find clear violations of this and other sacred texts.

                As-Suffa Institute
                If you feel confident in declaring someone a kafir, then by all means, you're free to do what you want.

                But I will not take upon myself the authority that belongs only to Allah (SWT).

                Allahu 3alem.
                http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                  Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                  If you feel confident in declaring someone a kafir, then by all means, you're free to do what you want.

                  But I will not take upon myself the authority that belongs only to Allah (SWT).

                  Allahu 3alem.
                  If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet :saw: taught.
                  http://kondori.wordpress.com/

                  Like this page on FB
                  HasbunAllah Wani'mal Wakeel | حسبنا الله ونعم الوكيل

                  Allah is Sufficient for us, and He is the Best Disposer of affairs.

                  "...its better to light a small candle than to curse the darkness..."

                  "We need to emphasise that differences of fiqh are the not the depth of religion, the depth of religion is piety." ~
                  Shaykh Akram Nadwi


                  Salātullāhi wa Salāmuhu ‘alayka ya Rasūlallāh


                  http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj...2vbxo1_500.jpg

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                    Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
                    If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet :saw: taught.
                    I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

                    You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

                    Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.

                    You may THINK and you may PERCEIVE that someone goes against Qur'an and Sunnah, but the responsibility of determining if that person really is going against Qur'an and Sunnah is the head of the Islamic state, and then they will try that person according to Shariah. And if the person warrants punishment according to Shariah, then they will receive Shariah's punishment justly in this life. But ALLAH IS THEIR JUDGE in the next life.

                    You do not even have the responsibility nor the authority to judge according to Shariah IN THIS LIFE, let alone to call someone kafir and say they are occupants of hell in the next. ASTAGFIRULLAH.

                    It may be that you call someone kafir because they praise Ali(AS) and then tomorrow you are praising Ali(AS) so you just called yourself kafir!

                    It may be that you call a drunk a kafir because he doesn't believe in Islam! It may be that you are drunk tomorrow and not believing in Islam!

                    So guard yourself from Shaytan! Seek refuge with Allah!
                    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                      Originally posted by Uthman Ibn Afan View Post
                      If you read what I posted then you would see that Muslims are allowed to judge by the Quran & Sunnah, and that was the understanding of the sahaba and the scholars throughout the history of Islam. So I'll stick to what the Prophet :saw: taught.
                      brother, this is like for example the prophet saws said, may Allah curse the adulterers but you cant curse a single adulterer, this is what the scholars say, so similarly while Allah may call christians or whoever kuffar, you cant call a single person that because you dont know what is in the heart of this person, it is not what you call yourself but what you actually are in your heart, just like someone may call themselves a salafi but in fact not follow the salafs at all, so it is not what you call yourself but what you have in your heart, and since each heart is differnt we cannot say that for a particular person
                      " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
                      Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                        Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                        I'll stick to what Qur'an and Hadith actually say, and not what scholars say they say.

                        You want to listen to what scholars say it says then you will be worshipping trees and fire eventually. Scholars opinions are as varied as the flowers.

                        Qur'an and Hadith make it VERY clear not to call someone a kafir and judge anyone, because YOU DO NOT KNOW GHAIB, ONLY ALLAH KNOWS GHAIB. Judging someone is GHAIB ONLY ALLAH KNOWS.
                        Fools like you will not call a liar liar, a rapist rapist, a murderer murderer because you don't have Ilm-al-ghayb?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                          Originally posted by Debater View Post
                          Fools like you will not call a liar liar, a rapist rapist, a murderer murderer because you don't have Ilm-al-ghayb?
                          We all have lied at some point, whether intentionally or unintentionally. It is hypocritical to call someone a liar.

                          Rape/murder are different.

                          If a man forces a woman against her will, then he is a rapist and he will be judged and punished according to Shariah by the Islamic Head of State.

                          The same for a murderer. It is up to the State to punish them.

                          If you start shouting at them, throwing stones at them, before they have had a trial, then you could be throwing stones and shouting at an innocent man. If that same man had've went to trial, he could have established his innocence and proved that his accusers were actually lying.

                          See?

                          You don't know what you don't know. If something has been proven, then sure call them what they have been found guilty of.

                          But KAFIR cannot be proven in this life. Kafir is proven in the next life.
                          http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                          O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                            Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                            But KAFIR cannot be proven in this life. Kafir is proven in the next life.
                            Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                              Originally posted by Debater View Post
                              Then the companions of Prophet Muhammad sallAllahu 'alayhe wasallam, his caliphs made mistakes by waging jihad against Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians?
                              Nope.

                              They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns. They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered, otherwise it would be like allowing Hitler to live and do as he pleases.

                              There is a difference between offering Islam to an individual and offering Islam to a country.

                              Many scholars have talked about this in the past.

                              If you have any questions, feel free to ask. But most of the answers can be found if you took the initiative to learn about Islam.
                              http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                              O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: The Fitnah of Takfir

                                Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                                Nope.

                                They attacked nations who were hostile. It isn't like they went and invaded innocent towns.
                                Persia was not hostile but it was invaded.

                                They offered peace to the evil kings of that time, and they either accepted or rejected. If they rejected peace then they needed to be killed and conquered, otherwise it would be like allowing Hitler to live and do as he pleases.
                                And they rejected peace because they were Muslims or Kafirs?
                                A person who rejects peace (Islam) is a Muslim in your dictionary?

                                There is a difference between offering Islam to an individual and offering Islam to a country.
                                Do you mean a person cannot be a kafir but a country can be kafir?

                                Many scholars have talked about this in the past.

                                If you have any questions, feel free to ask. But most of the answers can be found if you took the initiative to learn about Islam.
                                Many scholars talked about it because you were not born then, now they have stopped talking about it, right?

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