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Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

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    #31
    Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

    interesting...
    "Allah's choicest people are those whom His fear has driven to absolute silence although they are neither helpless nor dumb. Rather they are possessors of eloquence and have power to speak and sense to understand. But constant glorification of Allah's name has so overpossessed their wits that their hearts are overawed and their lips sealed. When they get established in this stage they hasten towards righteoussness."

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      #32
      Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

      Originally posted by crndvr View Post
      He does not have an above or a below, a right or a left, an in front of or a behind,
      • Explanation: This is one of the fundamentals of the creed, which is clearing Allah, ta^ala, of being in any or all directions. It is not the case, as some ignorant people believe, that Allah exists in the above direction. Some believe that Allah is in the in front of direction, bound between the slave and the Ka^bah. Others believe He is like air that is spread and occupies all places. Some, like the so-called Nasiruddin al-'Albaniyy, believe that Allah is surrounding the world from all directions just as the hand surrounds that which it has in its grip. All of that is invalid and negates the correct creed of tawhid. Imam Abu Ja^far at-Tahawiyy authored a book called An Elucidation of the Creed of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama^ah. In it he said: "Allah is clear of limits, ends, parts, limbs, and instruments; and the six directions do not contain Him."
        His words are of pure tawhid and are jewels that pertain to the creed. He who is attributed with limits, ends, parts, limbs, organs, or directions would have a size and a format--all attributes of bodies. Allah, ta^ala, is not a body as He, subhanahu, said in Surat ash-Shura, 11:
      Well get me an explicit text Nasiruddin al-Albani believes Allah(swt) is sorrounding the universe.

      As far as I am aware he affirms the Quranic text that Allah(swt) is above the seven heaven above his arsh as mentioned explicitly.

      If you can't bring any evidence than you are just good as talking out of you arse. Copy and pasting article is only good if you can assure the accuracy of the information.



      which means: [Nothing is like Him.] Attributing to Allah the direction of above is not perfection, contrary to what some ignorant people think. The importance of one's status is not measured by places and limits. The physical place of the angels around the ^Arsh is much higher than that of the Prophets of Allah. However, the status of the Prophets is better and much higher to Allah, the Creator.

      This is false reasoning. Allah(Swt) is above because he said so. We attribute highness because he said so. Not because of aristotelian bastardised thoughts that are stuck in the 6th century.





      a whole or a part.
      • Explanation: Allah, ta^ala, is not a body composed of parts and therefore is not attributed with wholeness or partness. Al-Bayhaqiyy reported in his book Al-'Asma' was-Sifat that al-Halimiyy, in explaining the name of Allah, Al-Muta^ali, said: "It means the One Who is above being attributed with the attributes of the creatures like marriage, children, limbs, organs, sitting on the sarir (i.e., the ^Arsh), being hidden behind veils so that the eyes would not see Him, moving from one place to another, and the like. Some of these attributes dictate ending, some dictate need, and some dictate change. All of that is non-befitting and not permissible to attribute to He Whose Existence is without a beginning."
      Lets analyse this text.

      The greek influenced psuedo-Ashari school of thought cannot even attribute movement because to them movement dictate change.
      For some reason this movement must be negated.


      Honestly I find their thoughts disturbing and far away from textual proof.
      As a graduate in science I never understood their miss-construed logic.

      Here is the choice for all muslim to accept. A bastardised line of thoughs of a sect or the Word of Allah(swt). (Mind my language).

      Imam Bukhari recorded from Abul-Aaliyah (d. 94AH) that istiwaa means He rose over it.There are 7 ayaat in the Quran that specifically mention istiwaa:
      1. Indeed your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He Istawa (rose over) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty). He brings the night as a cover over the day, seeking it rapidly, and (He created) the sun, the moon, the stars subjected to His Command. Surely, His is the Creation and Commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)! (7:54)
      2. Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six Days. Then He Istaw‚ (rose over) the Throne. The Most Beneficent (All‚h)! Ask Him (O Prophet Muhammad ??? ???? ???? ????), as He is Al-KhabÓr (The All-Knower of everything). (25:59)
      3. All‚h is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you can see. Then, He Istaw‚ (rose above) the Throne. He has subjected the sun and the moon (to continue going round)! Each running (its course) for a term appointed. He regulates all affairs, explaining the Ay‚t (proofs, signs) in detail, (so) that you may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord. (13:2)
      4. Surely, your Lord is All‚h Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istaw‚ (rose over) the Throne, disposing the affair of all things. No intercessor (can plead with Him) except after His Leave. That is All‚h, your Lord; so worship Him (Alone). Then, will you not remember? (10:3)
      5. The Most Beneficent (All‚h) Istaw‚ (rose over) the (Mighty) Throne. (20:5)
      6. All‚h it is He Who has created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them in six Days. Then He Istaw‚ (rose over) the Throne. You (mankind) have none, besides Him, as a WalÓ (protector or helper etc.) or an intercessor. Will you not then remember (or be admonished)? (32:4)
      7. He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days and then Istawa (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). He knows what goes into the earth and what comes forth from it, what descends from the heaven and what ascends thereto. And He is with you (by His Knowledge) wheresoever you may be. And Allah is the All-Seer of what you do. (57:4)
      The rest of it is really mute point, garbage that needs to be taken out which I have not the time.
      I apologise for my brief and abrupt reply, but people should be warned against people like them.
      Last edited by Skilly; 16-12-07, 08:06 PM.
      Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

        Originally posted by aaishah View Post
        salam alayk,u said imam attahawi is an ashari&maturidis,who are these.Also i thought u cant be ahlu sunah and somtin else,isnt Ashari a sect or somtin?pls explain BRIEFLY.
        Yes they are sect. It is a sect. Their leader being theologian Abu al-Hasan al-Ash'ari. It is a sub category of the Mutazilite.

        Al-ashari was a Mutazilite until forty years of age where after being discontented with it he tried to come back to the orthodoxy. He tried to closen the gap between Ilm-Al Kalam (Speculative theology) and orthodoxy and came up with few strange view that where antagonist of orthodox view.

        It is accepted that before he died he repented from those strande view and affirmed that he use to oppose, but this is not much accepted by asharis. Whatever the case his followers did not follow sought and carried on with those sectarian views.
        Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

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          #34
          Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

          "There
          were Imaam Abul Hasan al-Ashaari and Imaam Abu Mansoor Maturidi.
          In brief, as far as these complext and intricate debates on Kalaam is
          concerned, the view of the Ahlus Sunnah is confined to the schools of these
          two scholars. All other schools of thought are on Baatil"

          yes, very interesting
          not at all Sidi the Athari school is valid and it is very much in agreement with the Ashari's and the Muturidi's except for the factor of making ta`wil.

          We need to be aware that on Day of Judgement Allah will not ask us about his attributes.. rather he will ask us about our deeds, it is important for us Muslims to move past the debates on Aqeedah and to more better things which are affecting us today.

          May Allah Forgive us All and Guide us to what Please Him.
          The spiritual warrior is he who breaks an idol;
          and the idol of each person is his Ego.

          - Imam Abul Qasim al-Qushayri

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

            Originally posted by al-ghazalli View Post
            not at all Sidi the Athari school is valid and it is very much in agreement with the Ashari's and the Muturidi's except for the factor of making ta`wil.

            We need to be aware that on Day of Judgement Allah will not ask us about his attributes.. rather he will ask us about our deeds, it is important for us Muslims to move past the debates on Aqeedah and to more better things which are affecting us today.

            May Allah Forgive us All and Guide us to what Please Him.
            Yes you would be asked about of defaming his attribute. You would be asked about of leading others astray you would be asked about splitting this ummah into sects like those that went before.

            You would take account for everything, every words of his you deny by way of tawil or not.

            What do you think people are so harsh against ashari's and maturidis and those extreme sufis?
            Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

              Sidi you may follow your manhaj and I don't blame you nor do I consider you misguided its a pity students who follow Salafi minhaj do not show hikmah which your very Ulema show to others.

              the Late Shaykh Ghumari (May Allah Grant Him Jannatul Fardous) went to Saudi Arabia and Shaykh Bin Baz (May Allah Grant Him Jannatul Fardous) found out and insisted not only the Shaykh eat dinner with him and his students but also stay at his house as His guest. Shaykh Ghumari was a well known Ashari and critic of the Salafi's...when one of Shaykh Bin Baz's students tried to debate with the Shaykh...Shaykh Bin Baz was angered and told this student to keep quiet.

              Subhanallah these two were polar opposities yet they considered each others differences in Aqeedah mistaken tawil.

              Let's also be realistic the majority of the Scholars from the madhab followed one of these two schools (Ashari or Muturidi).

              Here is a scan from Shaykh Abul Hasan showing that Shaykhul Islam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani was very much an Ashari


              Please find enclosed a scan from the Thabat (list of the established full chains of transmission in various works) of probably the last of the great Huffaz in hadith from the Hanafi Madhhab: Imam Muhammad Abid al-Sindi al-Ayyubi al-Madani. The Thabat was entitled Hasr al-Sharid min Asanid Muhammad Abid . The Shaykh was originally from Sind, present day being around the Karachi side of Pakistan. He died in 1257 AH.



              The Thabat has reached me via Muttasil asanid back to the Hafiz of the Hijaz – Muhammad Abid al-Sindi (ra). The printed edition, vol. 2/p. 670, no. 1315 has a unique sanad listed where most of those in the sanad were known Ash'arites.



              The sanad in the scan reached the Hafiz al-Sindi via the unique Musalsal style, and onwards to us. In it I have highlighted how precisely the sanad going back to Imam Abul Hasan al-Ash'ari consists of well known Shafi'ite Doctors of Hadith with the appellation "Ash'ari" straight after their names. This appellation to the Ash'arite school was directly voiced in to the continuous sanad by the very Imams like:



              Al-Qadi Zakariyya al-Ansari – who was a very well known student of al-Hafiz Ibn Hajar in Hadith, living to around 100 years of age (see the Reliance of the Traveller for his biography)



              The Amir al-Mu'minin in Hadith in his age, al-Hafiz Ahmed ibn Hajar al-Asqalani al-Shafi'i al-Ash'ari



              The Hafiz of Sham – Abul Qasim ibn Asakir al-Dimashqi



              and others
              A big thanks to Sunniforums for the Scan.
              Attached Files
              The spiritual warrior is he who breaks an idol;
              and the idol of each person is his Ego.

              - Imam Abul Qasim al-Qushayri

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                Originally posted by Skilly View Post
                What do you think people are so harsh against ashari's and maturidis and those extreme sufis?
                Cause they jealous of people of knowledge due to their lack of knowledge.

                So they hate philisophy cause they don't know it.

                Hate sufism cause they don't know it.

                And love position with community, so they wanna be the "scholars" and people of knowledge but know they aren't deep down, so hate knowledge they don't have and hate it's people and are jealous people.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                  Originally posted by al-ghazalli View Post
                  Sidi you may follow your manhaj and I don't blame you nor do I consider you misguided its a pity students who follow Salafi minhaj do not show hikmah which your very Ulema show to others.

                  the Late Shaykh Ghumari (May Allah Grant Him Jannatul Fardous) went to Saudi Arabia and Shaykh Bin Baz (May Allah Grant Him Jannatul Fardous) found out and insisted not only the Shaykh eat dinner with him and his students but also stay at his house as His guest. Shaykh Ghumari was a well known Ashari and critic of the Salafi's...when one of Shaykh Bin Baz's students tried to debate with the Shaykh...Shaykh Bin Baz was angered and told this student to keep quiet.

                  Subhanallah these two were polar opposities yet they considered each others differences in Aqeedah mistaken tawil.

                  Let's also be realistic the majority of the Scholars from the madhab followed one of these two schools (Ashari or Muturidi).

                  Here is a scan from Shaykh Abul Hasan showing that Shaykhul Islam Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani was very much an Ashari


                  A big thanks to Sunniforums for the Scan.
                  I am not here entertaining guest, this is a forum. We debate.
                  Secondly that sufi forum is hardly an example of entertaining guest.

                  Yes I been to that incoherent devious forum that when backed on to the corner they moved their thread to their safe heaven (where no one can post except them) or banning and thus effectively neutralising any response or refutation.
                  The people at that forum are sick. I know it because I frequented that forum.

                  If you claim the Majority than your claim can only be from after the inception of AShari & Maturidi sects.

                  Prior to that majority where not asharis or maturidis a bit, nor they held those peculiar doctrines, and even after that it was never accepted by the sunnis, this is demonstrated by history.

                  The reality of the Ash’ari school and its spread.

                  Taqi al-Din Ahmad b. ‘Ali al-Maqrizi (d. 845)
                  An excerpt from al-Khitat al-Maqriziyya 4/184-5
                  The reality of the school of al-Ash’ari – may Allah be merciful with him – is that he followed a way between the negation of attributes, that being the Mu’tazili school, and the affirmation thereof, that being the school of anthropomorphists, and further debated his beliefs and supported his school with proofs. Thereafter, a group of theologians inclined towards and relied upon his school; from them, al-Qadhi Abu Bakr Muhammad b. al-Tayyib al-Baqillani al-Maliki, Abu Bakr Muhammad b. al-Hasan b. Furak, al-Shaykh Abu Ishaq Ibrahim b. Muhammad b. Mihran al-Isfaraini, al-Shaykh Abu Ishaq Ibrahim b. ‘Ali b. Yusuf al-Shirazi, al-Shaykh Abu Hamid Muhammad b. Muhammad b. Ahmad al-Ghazzali, Abu al-Fath Muhammad b. ‘Abd al-Karim b. Ahmad al-Shahrastani, al-Imam Fakhr al-Din Muhammad b. ‘Umar b. al-Husayn al-Razi and others, the mention of whom would take a long time. They championed his school, debated and disputed according to it, and supported the school with proofs in an uncountable number of works. Due to their efforts, the school of Abu al-Hasan al-Ash’ari spread in Iraq roughly from year 380 AH, and from there it moved to Syria.

                  Then al-Malik al-Nasir Salah al-Din Yusuf b. Ayyub ascended to power in Egypt, who along with the judge, Sadr al-Din ‘Abd al-Malik b. ‘Isa b. Darbas al-Marani were both the followers of this school, for they had nurtured upon it ever since they were in the service of al-Sultan al-Malik al-‘Adil Nur al-Din Mahmud b. Zanki in Damascus. Salah al-Din in his childhood had memorised a manual on creed, composed for him by Qutb al-Din Abu al-Ma’ali Mas’ud b. Muhammad b. Mas’ud al-Nisaburi, the manual which he, in turn, made his children memorise. For this reason they placed Ash’arism above everything else and held on to it very firmly, and furthermore, they obliged the masses to adhere to this school. And so it continued in this vein through out all the Ayyubite dynasties, and thereafter right through the reign of their freed-slaves, the Turkish governors.

                  This also coincided with one of the trips of Abu ‘Abdullah Muhammad b. Tumart from North Africa to Iraq where he learnt the Ash’ari doctrine from Abu Hamid al-Ghazzali. Upon his return to North Africa, he began to teach and educate the Masamida (one of the principal Berber ethnic groups) and composed for them a manual on theology, which the commoners quickly embraced. He then passed away and was succeeded by ‘Abd al-Mu’min b. ‘Ali al-Qaysi, who was titled ‘Amir al-Mu’minin’, and who also conquered the North African dynasties, and thereafter his descendants for years. They became known as ‘al-Muwahhidun’, and then on, al-Muwahhid dynasty deemed permissible to shed the blood of anyone who opposes the doctrine of Ibn Tumart, since he was to them the distinguished leader, the infallible Mahdi. How much blood they shed due to this reason, is only known by Allah the Creator – May He be glorified and exalted! – as it is known in historical works.

                  Thus, this was the reason behind the fame of the Ash’ari school and its spread in various Islamic lands, such that the rest of the schools were forgotten and gone; to such an extent that there remains no school today that opposes the Ash’ari school, with the exception of the school of the Hanbalis – the followers of Imam Abu ‘Abdullah Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Hanbal – may Allah be pleased with him. For they are upon what the Salaf were upon, that is to avoid allegorical interpretation of texts pertaining to attributes.

                  Such was the case up until 700 years after Hijra, when there rose to fame, in Damascus and the outskirts, Taqi al-Din Abu al-‘Abbas Ahmad b. ‘Abd al-Halim b. ‘Abd al-Salam b. Taymiyya al-Harrani. He undertook to champion the school of the Salaf and did his utmost to refute the Ash’ari school and openly censured them, the Rafida and the Sufis.
                  Thereafter, the people were divided into two groups over him. A group that followed him, relied upon his views, acted in accordance with his opinions, held him as Shaykh al-Islam and the most prominent preservers of the Islamic nation. The other group declared him to be a heretic, a deviant, rebuked him for affirming attributes, and censured him over his juristic opinions, of them are those where he had a predecessor, and of them are those where they claimed he opposed the consensus and had no predecessor. He and his adversaries, both had mishaps, and their reckoning is with Allah, the one from whom nothing is hidden in the earth and the heavens. He still has, up until today, many followers in Syria, and a few in Egypt.
                  Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                    Originally posted by BlueDragon View Post
                    Cause they jealous of people of knowledge due to their lack of knowledge.

                    So they hate philisophy cause they don't know it.

                    Hate sufism cause they don't know it.

                    And love position with community, so they wanna be the "scholars" and people of knowledge but know they aren't deep down, so hate knowledge they don't have and hate it's people and are jealous people.
                    Mate I understand philoposphy very well and I understand what it is that is why I reject it as much as possible, especially when philosophy given precedent and preference over the explicit text of the Quran and Sunnah.
                    You don't mix the too or make philosphy part of you religion mate.

                    Their is nothing to appreciate if you know what it is.

                    Sufis I have my reason for it most of it has no clear evidence that has garbed it self with orthodoxy and truth. Like most sects so.

                    That is why, I don't reject everything that sufis claim under Tawassuf.
                    Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                      As I have stated I do not wish to debate on such issues, debating is a disease of the heart amongst the layman. As for your copy & paste job..is unfortunate and a vile attack against the Ashari school.

                      I invite you to www.aslein.net and you can debate with one of my teachers Shaykh Sa'id Foudah (May Allah Preserve Him) and other students of knowlodge who specialize in Aqeedah.

                      As for us layman we are instructed not to let our nafs get the best of us.

                      وَمَنْ أَعْرَضَ عَن ذِكْرِي فَإِنَّ لَهُ مَعِيشَةً ضَنكاً وَنَحْشُرُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ أَعْمَى

                      قَالَ رَبِّ لِمَ حَشَرْتَنِي أَعْمَى وَقَدْ كُنتُ بَصِيراً

                      قَالَ كَذَلِكَ أَتَتْكَ آيَاتُنَا فَنَسِيتَهَا وَكَذَلِكَ الْيَوْمَ تُنسَى

                      May Allah have Mercy on Us and Guide us to the Truth.
                      The spiritual warrior is he who breaks an idol;
                      and the idol of each person is his Ego.

                      - Imam Abul Qasim al-Qushayri

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                        Originally posted by al-ghazalli View Post
                        As I have stated I do not wish to debate on such issues, debating is a disease of the heart amongst the layman. As for your copy & paste job..is unfortunate and a vile attack against the Ashari school.
                        Vile? did I say anything untrue about the asharis?

                        No.

                        I invite you to www.aslein.net and you can debate with one of my teachers Shaykh Sa'id Foudah (May Allah Preserve Him) and other students of knowlodge who specialize in Aqeedah.
                        So you invite me to debate Allah(swt words against the words aristoteian indoctrinated not to mention misconstrued logic?

                        Anyway thanks for the link I would check it out.


                        As for us layman we are instructed not to let our nafs get the best of us.
                        You talk about naf, is only good if you can accept the truth which your persistent in making tawil of.

                        May Allah have Mercy on Us and Guide us to the Truth.
                        If you wan't to Allah(Swt) to Guide you than you can start by accepting his explicit words in the Quran.
                        Visit us @ MyIslamWeb

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Aqeedah At-Tahawiyah

                          Useful
                          "Closer and closer to mankind comes their Reckoning: yet they heed not and they turn away" (21:1)

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