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    Jump in the Fire: Making Hijrah | Cyrus McGoldrick


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    • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

      Was Cyrus apart of your local congregation or the wider community? How did you meet him, and what exactly was he saying back then?
      He moved to Miami (my city) from New York. He wasn't part of my local jamaa, but I met him when he gave some talks here. He was kind of like a youth leader when he was here; I don't remember the exact content of his talks. I don't think he was talking about hijrah though. More so about giving dawah etc.

      It came as a surprise to me at first that he moved. Then I thought it was amusing because you had all these Muslims here who were looking forward to having him as part of the community and the things he might have done, and then he just got fed up with them all and leaves. He understood the reality of many of the Muslims here and I guess that's what motivated him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by UmmAbdullah86 View Post

        I must admit I don't feel the whole indoctrination thing here. Admittedly I had a sheltered life and so do my children. They were home educated for most of their education and when they went to school I purposely chose schools that were single sex and willing to nurture their differences. I can honestly say we haven't had any problems alhamdulillah. We live in a fairly small, minority community but have a small but like-minded circle of friends. I think it's easier for the girls to find other girls as generally speaking Arabs keep the girls close but the boys are left to their own devices. Alhamdulillah as a family we spend a lot of time together and InshaLlah that will continue. What I do really sorry about is the m working in a non Muslim environment, may Allah protect all of our youth.
        What exactly worries you about them working in a non-Muslim enviorment. They were born and raised in the West- they're literally living in a non-Muslim country. Did they attend public school or did you home school them? Are you afraid that their Islam will be challenged or they'll run off and marry a Kaafir?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

          What exactly worries you about them working in a non-Muslim enviorment. They were born and raised in the West- they're literally living in a non-Muslim country. Did they attend public school or did you home school them? Are you afraid that their Islam will be challenged or they'll run off and marry a Kaafir?
          Last edited by UmmAbdullah86; 12-12-19, 09:24 PM.

          Comment


          • Most arent practising and from them majority are tainted in one way or another and from the ones that are practising a large amount came from a rebellious past lifestyle where some form of tainting or damage occured

            a sheltored lifestyle is very rare in the west i only know of a hand full of people who have lived a lifestyle like that  and succeeded from childhood to adulthood 

            (from my observations of secondary, college, university and working life)

             

            Comment


            • Well everyone is tainted in one way or another, no one is perfect.  What I would say though is I see a difference in how different cultural/national backgrounds make a difference.  I grew up in a very middle class university town, with very few Muslims.  Whilst i'm sure there were social problems I didn't see them; I remember one girl disappeared from school suddenly and later discovered she had been expelled immediately as she was pregnant in sixth form.  This was such a scandal, everyone was talking about it.  Families were generally educated and had high aspirations for their children, I never heard of my friends hanging around the streets or going to night clubs.  (I'm not that old btw, just in case anyone says 50 years ago everything was different) My children have largely grown up in a similar town.

              After our hijra didn't work out we decided to move to a more Muslim town in the UK and settled on Birmingham.  It was such a shock to the system, the muslim areas were filthy, overcrowded and whilst visibly a lot more 'Muslim' it had such a ghetto feel.  I remember seeing a group of teen boys coming out of the mosque in thobes and carrying mushafs and making duaa that my sons would be like that.  You can imagine my horror when we saw them again a short while later in the park and they had met up with a crowd of girls, who were all wearing overhead abaya and looked very outwardly religious.  The boys were on the swings and a few of the girls straddled the boys and I couldn't believe what I saw, this was in broad daylight in front of everyone and they were laughing totally unashamedly.  Every day I saw similar scenes and I was so disgusted to the core, why were these youth hanging around with no parents in sight?  IME Arab parents are more understanding of issues, first gen desi's are in complete denial that their child would ever contemplate doing a sin and Somalis are extremely lax and will even threaten to beat up someone that complains about their child lol.  I'm generalizing obviously, but as parents we need to take responsibility of our children, their upbringing, ensure they have the best standard of living they can and to facilitate the halal activities (so many parents can't be bothered)  MashaAllah my 2nd gen Desi friends I believe have a really good balance.
               

              Comment


              • I don't think it makes sense to live here if you're going to shelter your children to the point where they cannot survive outside your bubble. You're living in the West, not Dar al-Islam. We have to think about the future generations; our children's children's children. Will they be Muslims? If so, what type of Muslims? By name? Cultural Muslims? I'm only Muslim because my dad's a Muslim? Such Muslims will not survive the Fitna of Messih al-Dajjal.

                I'm still confused as to what exactly worries you about your children working in mixed environments. Could you be more specific? Are you worried they won't pray at work? Or do you think a Kaafir will sweep them off their feet? Be specific.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post



                  I don't think it makes sense to live here if you're going to shelter your children to the point where they cannot survive outside your bubble. You're living in the West, not Dar al-Islam. We have to think about the future generations; our children's children's children. Will they be Muslims? If so, what type of Muslims? By name? Cultural Muslims? I'm only Muslim because my dad's a Muslim? Such Muslims will not survive the Fitna of Messih al-Dajjal.

                  I'm still confused as to what exactly worries you about your children working in mixed environments. Could you be more specific? Are you worried they won't pray at work? Or do you think a Kaafir will sweep them off their feet? Be specific.
                  This is exactly the dilemma; if we have to stay in the west should we wrap them up in a bubble?  I don't think mine our btw, sheltered, yes, but they know what is going on and I'm very open with them.  I have met some homeschooling families who I would say are living in a bubble and I think that can be very dangerous.  I must say though that even in a Muslim country the situation isn't always great; my cousins I believe are very heavily involved in socialism and Allahu 'alam to what extent they are Muslim in their practice.  They grew up in Quran schools, parents are religious, etc, it certainly isn't a guarantee.   I think myself that growing up in the west I had to strive to be a muslim so it wasn't something cultural, which makes a difference.  I practise because I want to and i believe in it, not because it is a routine thing that most people do.

                  I have lots of fears to be honest for my children, the same fears I have for myself.  I really wanted to get married young as I didn't want to go to university.  I had friends in school but it was all very superficial, I couldn't relate to them on a deep level and as soon as we left school I never kept in touch or intended to.  Generally speaking I wouldn't encourage friendships with non muslims beyond niceties and alhamdulillah so far that is the case.  When you work though I believe that things are going towards a 'team' mindset, you are expected to socialize, it's hard to just keep your head down and do your work.  I worry a lot about the boys in particular going astray and marrying a non Muslim, from what I have seen when that happens the next generation are diluted by a far stretch.  In saying that though I see the new generations being diluted anyway whether it is here or away.  I worry that they won't exercise their right to pray and slowly the prayers becomes something that you do when it's convenient.  I worry that they won't have the confidence to oppose ideas that are against Islam and as you say become cultural Muslims.  I remember one sister who had older children saying that the hardest thing about them getting older is letting them go; you won't be around forever and ultimately they have to choose Islam for themselves.  All you can do is do you r best in raising them and make duaa that they'll stay on the straight path.
                   

                  Comment


                  • This hadeeth was narrated by al-Bukhaari in a number of places in his Saheeh, such as (7088) Kitaab al-Fitan, where he narrated that Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Soon there will come a time when the best wealth a Muslim will have will be sheep which he will take to the mountaintops and places where rain falls, fleeing for the sake of his religious commitment,

                    Comment


                    • Where Can We Move to Make Hijrah? | Mufti Muneer

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                        Where Can We Move to Make Hijrah? | Mufti Muneer

                        "But a suitable country for you to live in.. where you can have your savings and do a little bit of work.. a specific country which allows this? I do not necessarily know" - Mufti Muneer [4:35]

                        This is a huge problem for converts from all backgrounds. You can always go back home to Bangladesh at any given moment. The converts don't have a Muslim majority country where they call back home. The West is their home. And unfortunately none of the Muslim countries have had the decency to open their doors and allow them to make a smooth Hijrah after accepting Islam. It's a major Fitna.

                        Abu julaybeeb

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                          Where Can We Move to Make Hijrah? | Mufti Muneer

                          You know mufti muneer believes istigatha is shirk he also takes from miaw and even has durar as saneeya in his library

                          How comes you listen to him i thought you think miaw is neo khariji and istigatha is not shirk

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post

                            "But a suitable country for you to live in.. where you can have your savings and do a little bit of work.. a specific country which allows this? I do not necessarily know" - Mufti Muneer [4:35]

                            This is a huge problem for converts from all backgrounds. You can always go back home to Bangladesh at any given moment. The converts don't have a Muslim majority country where they call back home. The West is their home. And unfortunately none of the Muslim countries have had the decency to open their doors and allow them to make a smooth Hijrah after accepting Islam. It's a major Fitna.

                            Abu julaybeeb
                            You shouldnt make that assumption not all countries will happily accept individuals who are religious

                            No exscuse for a convert he can just as easily go to bangladesh or somalia or mauritania all he has to do is pay for visa

                            converts or born muslims its all the same only difference is knowing the language and being dual citizenship though most arent

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                              You know mufti muneer believes istigatha is shirk he also takes from miaw and even has durar as saneeya in his library

                              How comes you listen to him i thought you think miaw is neo khariji and istigatha is not shirk
                              He also has a narrow view on the Madhahib and Adab al-Ikhtilaf. However, it doesn't take away from the abundant amount of Khayr he provides.

                              The Atharis have deviated in Akhiru Zaman similar to how the Sufis deviated from classical Sufism. If we were to leave everyone who believes that Istigatha entails Takfir (not only Shirk, but Takfir), then there'll only remain a handful of sources in modern times. Shall we also leave Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajr for deviating in Allah's Names & Attributes? Of course not.

                              Anyways, let's stick to the topic of Hijrah inshaAllah.
                              Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 14-12-19, 05:57 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post

                                You shouldnt make that assumption not all countries will happily accept individuals who are religious

                                No exscuse for a convert he can just as easily go to bangladesh or somalia or mauritania all he has to do is pay for visa

                                converts or born muslims its all the same only difference is knowing the language and being dual citizenship though most arent
                                You have no sympathy! How can it be the same when they're not from those lands? They have no family "back home" to aid with shelter, work or marriage prospects.

                                I'm sure during the days of the Khilafah the Muslims were more welcoming to the converts trying to escape Dar al-Kufr.

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