Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

[P3X-018]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

Either you agree with this, in which case you agree that there is no scientific "miracle" regarding the number of joints in the human body and you wasted your time posting the claim, or you believe that there are 360 joints in the human body because the quran says so and you need no evidence for it. If- as seems to be the case- you believe that where there is a discrepancy between the quran and apparent reality the fault is in reality, you were wasting your time posting what you would regard as irrelevant evidence.

It wasn't stated in the Quran, but it's from a Hadeeth.
Why are you taking interest in this discussion, you haven't made a single useful contribution besides your insults and negativness.
Instead of providing me with a link, source of information (like THHuxley simply did), you say I'm biased and ignore stuff that might go against what I believe.

[Bint ISLAM]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

THHuxley

Hi, i dunt know whether ur a muslim or not but from reading thru ur posts let me state sumtin VERY clearly to u.... Allah is the all knower... that means he knows EVERYTHING, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah always be bestowed upon him) is our messenger.

EVERYTHING that the prophet Muhammad (saw) sed is ALL TRUE... and we as Muslims believe in it

Whether science has proved it YET or not is not a massive concern to us... it is for ppl like urself... so stop going around and patronising the brother, for us the BELIEF in Muhammad is enuff... do u understand that.

If you TRULY wanted to learn then instead of argueing ur BASELESS point u wud go and research it..

ISLAM is upon the TRUTH

:D

[THHuxley]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

the 3 claims that you are asking from me to provide is not yours:

No. They were yours and they were contained in your first post that started this thread.

I have been waiting for several days for you to provide the references to your claims, and you promised that you would do so. Are you now giving up and admitting that no such references exist?

then why are you asking the same question from me?

Because it was your post. Therfore, you are responsible for having checked to see if the claims were true.

the source site provide you the answer for it as you are trying to prove it that there are no 360 joints!

The source does not provide the answer to my questions. If it did then you could just copy and paste the references into this thread. But you cannot do so because they do not exist.

Why would you post an article that you never read, that you had no reason to believe it was true, and then continue to defend it even after you yourself have discovered it's falsehood?

WE are stable on the hadess which was narrated by beloved Prophet (PBUH) as JOINTS in the human body is 360. IF its not then that is one of the problem with the modern science!

Then why did your post try to claim that science had proved the hadith true when in fact it has not? The problem is not with modern science at all. Anf the problem is not just that the ahadith are wrong.

The problem is that you posted an article that told lies in the attempt to falsely make the ahadith appear to be true.

It lied when it said that science has shown that there are 360 joints in the human body.

It lied when it said that before 1995, science had believed that there were 340 joints in the human body.

It lied when it said that in 1995 a scientific paper was published that found 20 new joints in the ears.

It lied when it said that there even were 20 joints in the human ears.

When you post a thread that contains such blatant lies, it is your responsibility to correct them. Not to run away from them.

Just admit that you were wrong, and all is forgiven

Eventhough I am reasearching on the subject. I will come back to the subjected post again near future inshallah with online reference or Hardcopy/Manual references!

I suspect we will never see you with any such references. You will run away from this unfortunate set of claims as fast as you possible can.

[THHuxley]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

THHuxley

Hi, i dunt know whether ur a muslim or not but from reading thru ur posts let me state sumtin VERY clearly to u.... Allah is the all knower... that means he knows EVERYTHING, Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah always be bestowed upon him) is our messenger.

Yes, I know that you believe those things. I just don't know why you believe them.

EVERYTHING that the prophet Muhammad (saw) sed is ALL TRUE... and we as Muslims believe in it

Again, yes, I know that you believe everything that Muhammad said. But it does not matter what you believe. It only matters what is actually true.

In this case, it is not true that there are 360 joints in the human body. So if Muhammad said that, then he was wrong. Whether you believe it or not.

Whether science has proved it YET or not is not a massive concern to us... it is for ppl like urself... so stop going around and patronising the brother, for us the BELIEF in Muhammad is enuff... do u understand that.

It appears that you have not paid very close attention to this thread, then. Because it was posted by a Muslim, and continues to be defended by Muslims. Therfore, it appears that at least some Muslims do find this to be a "massive concern."

If it is no concern to you specifically, then why are you even jumping into the discussion?

If you TRULY wanted to learn then instead of argueing ur BASELESS point u wud go and research it..

ISLAM is upon the TRUTH

My point is clearly far from "baseless." After all, I am the one here who has been arguing scrupulously from the actual evidence. It is simply strange to see you guys make claims with such confidence, and then run away from them as fast as Ammarcool has run. That you are trying to provide him moral support is admirable from a brother/sister sorta perspective.

But it des not fix the falsehoods in the claims he made.

I have researched Islam in great depth, especially in terms of its relationship to science and reason.

This is why I reject it as being not true.

[Bint ISLAM]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

Yes, I know that you believe those things. I just don't know why you believe them.

Look THHuxley this is our religion, it is our belief, our way of life... its u dunt understand why we beleive.... not why we believe.... if that makes sense

Again, yes, I know that you believe everything that Muhammad said. But it does not matter what you believe. It only matters what is actually true.

In this case, it is not true that there are 360 joints in the human body. So if Muhammad said that, then he was wrong. Whether you believe it or not.

lol subhanallah - Allah is free from imperfection. like i sed islam is upon the truth... if the scientists havnt figured it out yet then in time if Allah wills they will and even then u will turn around and disbelieve.... (i realli hope u dunt because i make a dua that Allah makes u understnad islam is the truth)


It appears that you have not paid very close attention to this thread, then. Because it was posted by a Muslim, and continues to be defended by Muslims. Therfore, it appears that at least some Muslims do find this to be a "massive concern."

What i find a concern is you sayin that what Muhammad (saw) sed is rong... because it isnt and hence ur sayin he was untruthful which will hurt me as a muslim because no joke THHuxley if u were to jst read into the life of Prophet Muhammad saw with an open heart even u wud find some love for this great man... i know it seems im cumin off point but i dunt appreciate it wen u put down the prophet cuz i believe wid my heart that wat he sed is TRUE and IF science hasnt proved it yet in time they will

If it is no concern to you specifically, then why are you even jumping into the discussion?

lol ur wrong there because wat was stated was a HADITH... an authentic sayin of the prophet muhammad saw so if u attack that it has everythin to do wid me.


My point is clearly far from "baseless." After all, I am the one here who has been arguing scrupulously from the actual evidence. It is simply strange to see you guys make claims with such confidence, and then run away from them as fast as Ammarcool has run. That you are trying to provide him moral support is admirable from a brother/sister sorta perspective.

We're not running, this is not an arguement becuase in an arguement ur tryin to prove the opponent wrong.... and i dunt need to prove u wrong because wat the hadith says is 100% tru... u no how u bang on bout how this scientist sed this and that.... u take into accoutn his findings u cud say ye.... well the prophets sayings are more true to us than a mere scientist

But it des not fix the falsehoods in the claims he made.

if ur reffering to the years he stated... maybe allah hu alim - Allah knows best but the hadith is true

I have researched Islam in great depth, especially in terms of its relationship to science and reason.

lool then where did u go rong???? excessive questions eh??

This is why I reject it as being not true.

May Allah guide us all man

[THHuxley]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

Look THHuxley this is our religion, it is our belief, our way of life... its u dunt understand why we beleive.... not why we believe.... if that makes sense

then it would have made sense.

But it would also have been wrong. I do understand what you believe, and in amazing detail for a non-Muslim. And I reject it as being palpably false.

lol subhanallah - Allah is free from imperfection. like i sed islam is upon the truth... if the scientists havnt figured it out yet then in time if Allah wills they will and even then u will turn around and disbelieve.... (i realli hope u dunt because i make a dua that Allah makes u understnad islam is the truth)

It is not clear to me why you imagine that preaching to me would be useful. Since I have already demonstrated to my own satisfaction that Islam is not true, you spouting dogma at me is the functional equivalent of some voodoo priestess trying to frighten me with a curse designed to turn me into a zombie.

If you wish to change my opinion, then make an argument based on evidence and reason. Since I already know your Muslim dogma, repeating it in the absence of such evidence and reason is quite a useless exercise.

What i find a concern is you sayin that what Muhammad (saw) sed is rong... because it isnt and hence ur sayin he was untruthful which will hurt me as a muslim because no joke THHuxley if u were to jst read into the life of Prophet Muhammad saw with an open heart even u wud find some love for this great man... i know it seems im cumin off point but i dunt appreciate it wen u put down the prophet cuz i believe wid my heart that wat he sed is TRUE and IF science hasnt proved it yet in time they will

I have

lol ur wrong there because wat was stated was a HADITH... an authentic sayin of the prophet muhammad saw so if u attack that it has everythin to do wid me.

I did not write the hadith. If the hadith is wrong, then there are many other people for you to be upset with. Perhaps the person who compiled it. Perhaps the person who translated it. Perhaps the person who posted it in this thread, or perhaps even the person who said it in the first place.

But you have no basis whatsoever to be upset with me when I point out that what is said in the hadith is factually, demonstrably, objectively false.

We're not running, this is not an arguement becuase in an arguement ur tryin to prove the opponent wrong.... and i dunt need to prove u wrong because wat the hadith says is 100% tru... u no how u bang on bout how this scientist sed this and that.... u take into accoutn his findings u cud say ye.... well the prophets sayings are more true to us than a mere scientist

to youactuallyevidence and reason. And I suggest you go back a reread this thread with an eye to who has actually presented evidence and reason.

It is simply true that if Muhammad said there are 360 joints in the human body, then he was wrong. There are not.

But if you insist on believing he was actually right, then your energy is better spent counting joints and making discoveries that, at this point in medical history, might even win you a Nobel Prize in Medicine.

The discovery of some 130 previously unknown joints in the human body would be a breathtaking scientific achievement. If you did so, you will be the first

I will applaud you if you succeed. But I will not hold my breath, either.

if ur reffering to the years he stated... maybe allah hu alim - Allah knows best but the hadith is true

I am referring to everything he stated. Including the correctness of the hadith itself.

lool then where did u go rong???? excessive questions eh??

No. Not excessive questions. Deficient answers.

[ammarcool]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

No. They were yours and they were contained in your first post that started this thread.

When you post a thread that contains such blatant lies, it is your responsibility to correct them. Not to run away from them.

Just admit that you were wrong, and all is forgiven

I suspect we will never see you with any such references. You will run away from this unfortunate set of claims as fast as you possible can.

I am not expecting from you to forgiven & I wont run away! It take some time to get the TRUTH to be digested...

If you tried to find faults with Muhammad(PBUH) & Allah(Azzawajal), you will end up in somewhere else..

WE are trusting the Commands of Almighty & the words of beloved Muhammad (PBUH) without no doubt at ALL.

[ammarcool]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

1- A scientific reference (any reference) from prior to 1995 in which scientists claim that there are 340 joints in the human body.
2- The "scientific paper" from 1995 in which it is announced that 20 new joints have been discovered in the human ears.
3- Any scientific reference at all that describes these 20 joints in the human ears.

Scientifically (I didnt say that is with Islamically) there is no evidence for the above questions as so far I have searched for various sources because thats the problem with the modern science! (anyhow some collegues of mine researching on it)

[ammarcool]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

Anatomy Shows the Body Joints




The Scientific Fact:

The joint is a point of articulation of two bones, a bone and gristle, or two gristles in any part of the human body.

The total number of joints, according to scientists, is:

1- Skull joints: 86

2- Throat joints: 6

3- Thorax joints: 66

4- Spine and Pelvis joints: 76

5- Upper limbs: 32 x 2 = 64

6- Lower limbs: 31 x 2= 62

Total number of joints: 360

Facets of Scientific Inimitability:

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said that the number of joints in the human body is 360, although at that time it was impossible to know such information, for most of the joints are very small and hard to see with the naked eye. The exact number of joints was not discovered until development in the fields of anatomy and histology.

Thus, the Prophet (peace be upon him) accurately pinpointed the number of joints fourteen centuries ago while modern anatomy came to assert this scientific fact only recently.Muslim World League - Commission on Scientific Signs of Qur'an & Sunnah

[Sepulchrave]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

It wasn't stated in the Quran, but it's from a Hadeeth.
Why are you taking interest in this discussion, you haven't made a single useful contribution besides your insults and negativness.
Instead of providing me with a link, source of information (like THHuxley simply did), you say I'm biased and ignore stuff that might go against what I believe.

Apologies for saying this was in the quran not hadith.
As your own source provides evidence against what you believe and you've ignored it and cited it as though it supports what you say, you obviously do "ignore stuff that might go against what [you] believe." All you have to do is find a non-muslim medical source that says there are three hundred and sixty joints in the human body. You acknowledge yourself that you can't:

Scientifically ...there is no evidence for the above questions as so far I have searched for various sources because thats the problem with the modern science! (anyhow some collegues of mine researching on it)

The joint is a point of articulation of two bones, a bone and gristle, or two gristles in any part of the human body.

Not according to medical sources. again, an example from: http://www.medterms.com/script/main/...rticlekey=4074

Joint: A joint is the area where two bones are attached for the purpose of motion of body parts. A joint is usually formed of fibrous connective tissue and cartilage. An articulation or an arthrosis is the same as a joint.

The total number of joints, according to scientists

Which scientists? where did they say it?

, is:

1- Skull joints: 86

2- Throat joints: 6

3- Thorax joints: 66

4- Spine and Pelvis joints: 76

5- Upper limbs: 32 x 2 = 64

6- Lower limbs: 31 x 2= 62

Total number of joints: 360

...or not.

[P3X-018]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=4074[/url]

This is from the link you provided:

Joint: A joint is the area where two bones are attached for the purpose of motion of body parts. A joint is usually formed of fibrous connective tissue and cartilage. An articulation or an arthrosis is the same as a joint.

and

The joint is a point of articulation of two bones (...)

I looked up "articulation", and found this:


Articulation:
1. (Anat.) A joint or juncture between bones in the skeleton.
[1913 Webster]

Isn't what ammarcool said the same as in that link?

[Sepulchrave]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

You should have read on through the dots. what ammarcool said was:

The joint is a point of articulation of two bones, a bone and gristle, or two gristles in any part of the human body.

Gristle is another word for cartilage which makes up most moving joints in the body.

[P3X-018]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

You should have read on through the dots. what ammarcool said was:Gristle is another word for cartilage which makes up most moving joints in the body.

Isn't saying bones and gristle technically the same as saying between 2 bones (where the 2 bones are attached). Since the "joint is usually formed of fibrous connective tissue and cartilage", this is also bones-gristle connection.

[Sepulchrave]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

Isn't saying bones and gristle technically the same as saying between 2 bones (where the 2 bones are attached). Since the "joint is usually formed of fibrous connective tissue and cartilage", this is also bones-gristle connection.

I said cartilage and gristle are the same thing actually.

[P3X-018]

Re: Islam's claim about the 360 joints in the human body was proven to be true!

I said cartilage and gristle are the same thing actually.

Yeah I know.
But bones-bones connection also have bones-gristle (bones-cartilage) connection.