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Fir'aoun and the magicians

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  • #31
    Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

    [MENTION=140159]coffeecat[/MENTION]
    Interesting input.
    Can you please give us the evidences of the following information you gave:
    - that Musa (as) and Harun (as) were imprisoned until the meeting with the magicians.
    - that there was a man who gave his veto to kill Musa (as)

    Then, after the meeting with the magicians and the realization of the first 2 miracles, did Musa (as) and his brother hid somewhere while witnessing one by one the next miracles ?
    How Musa (as) was communicating safely with Firaoun all these years, knowing that he was in danger?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

      Originally posted by depassage View Post
      [MENTION=140159]coffeecat[/MENTION]
      Interesting input.
      Can you please give us the evidences of the following information you gave:
      - that Musa (as) and Harun (as) were imprisoned until the meeting with the magicians.
      - that there was a man who gave his veto to kill Musa (as)

      Then, after the meeting with the magicians and the realization of the first 2 miracles, did Musa (as) and his brother hid somewhere while witnessing one by one the next miracles ?
      How Musa (as) was communicating safely with Firaoun all these years, knowing that he was in danger?
      Originally posted by caartman View Post
      (Sahih International)
      And Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord. Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will cause corruption in the land."

      -Sura Ghafir, Ayah 26

      (Sahih International)
      But Moses said, "Indeed, I have sought refuge in my Lord and your Lord from every arrogant one who does not believe in the Day of Account."

      -Sura Ghafir, Ayah 27

      (Sahih International)
      And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.

      -Sura Ghafir, Ayah 28

      (Sahih International)
      O my people, sovereignty is yours today, [your being] dominant in the land. But who would protect us from the punishment of Allah if it came to us?" Pharaoh said, "I do not show you except what I see, and I do not guide you except to the way of right conduct."

      -Sura Ghafir, Ayah 29
      Evidence about the man who 'vetoed' Firaun's plan to kill Musa .

      You also have to remember that there was turmoil within Firaun's palace. His wife became Muslim, as did others.

      Ultimately, it comes down to them not killing Musa because Allah promised him that they won't be able to harm him.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

        Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
        Evidence about the man who 'vetoed' Firaun's plan to kill Musa .

        You also have to remember that there was turmoil within Firaun's palace. His wife became Muslim, as did others.

        Ultimately, it comes down to them not killing Musa because Allah promised him that they won't be able to harm him.
        I was of the impression that the 'veto' was given during a consultation at a Shura council as we see in todays time during a vote or something but it looks like it was said during the middle of a conversation in the presence of Musa (as) according to the verses?


        Allahu Alam

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

          Originally posted by depassage View Post
          I was of the impression that the 'veto' was given during a consultation at a Shura council as we see in todays time during a vote or something but it looks like it was said during the middle of a conversation in the presence of Musa (as) according to the verses?


          Allahu Alam
          I don't know. That whole sequence of events might have taken place over weeks or months, rather than in one setting.

          You're getting caught up in minute details that are not relevant to the actual lessons to be taken from the stories, bro.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

            Originally posted by abdulsidd View Post
            I don't know. That whole sequence of events might have taken place over weeks or months, rather than in one setting.

            You're getting caught up in minute details that are not relevant to the actual lessons to be taken from the stories, bro.
            Getting caught for what? Useless questions? Non profitable for the moral of the story? You said it already.
            Why are you so bothered? Do you think I'm going to challenge something or what?
            If these "details" are not interesting for you, they are for me. If you don't have additional input then what's the point coming and saying these questions are useless? You should go and read more valuable post elsewhere.

            The story of Musa (as) is the most quoted in the Quraan. Trying to picture all the sequences and understand how it went, it's by pure interest of the story.
            If there are more detailed stories related in Hadith then it's the right place to share them.
            If there is nothing additional than the verses of the Quraan then fair enough, each and everyone can have its own speculations.
            Last edited by depassage; 14-06-17, 05:47 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

              Originally posted by depassage View Post
              Getting caught for what? Useless questions? Non profitable for the moral of the story? You said it already.
              Why are you so bothered? Do you think I'm going to challenge something or what?
              If these "details" are not interesting for you, they are for me. If you don't have additional input then what's the point coming and saying these questions are useless? You should go and read more valuable post elsewhere.

              The story of Musa (as) is the most quoted in the Quraan. Trying to picture all the sequences and understand how it went, it's by pure interest of the story.
              If there are more detailed stories related in Hadith then it's the right place to share them.
              If there is nothing additional than the verses of the Quraan then fair enough, each and everyone can have its own speculations.
              No need to be rude bro, he's just reminding that asking too many irrelevant questions about the untold and unseen shouldn't be our goals. It's good to know the tafsir but if it's already not covered by scholars then no point in going deeper.

              The Imam was reading Surat al-Shu'ar`aa today and I thought bout this discussion lol.
              اللهم يا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبي على دينك

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

                Originally posted by ابن مرة View Post
                No need to be rude bro, he's just reminding that asking too many irrelevant questions about the untold and unseen shouldn't be our goals. It's good to know the tafsir but if it's already not covered by scholars then no point in going deeper.

                The Imam was reading Surat al-Shu'ar`aa today and I thought bout this discussion lol.
                That's clearly the objective of this thread: To find out what scholars say on these events. I'm not really interested in personal opinions.
                At the end of the day, if there are no details brought by the Prophet (saws) in hadith or in tafseer of scholars, then I got my answer already.
                Personally I found the discussion interesting. Some brothers have shared good information.

                Sorry If have appeared rude. I apologize. [MENTION=64023]abdulsidd[/MENTION]

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Fir'aoun and the magicians

                  Originally posted by depassage View Post
                  [MENTION=140159]coffeecat[/MENTION]
                  Interesting input.
                  Can you please give us the evidences of the following information you gave:
                  - that Musa (as) and Harun (as) were imprisoned until the meeting with the magicians.
                  - that there was a man who gave his veto to kill Musa (as)

                  Then, after the meeting with the magicians and the realization of the first 2 miracles, did Musa (as) and his brother hid somewhere while witnessing one by one the next miracles ?
                  How Musa (as) was communicating safely with Firaoun all these years, knowing that he was in danger?
                  - I cant back up the claim that Musa (as) and Harun (as) were imprisoned after the 1st meeting, much of what we have is from israeliyaat and should not be taken as gospel.
                  - The story of the Man is in the Quran, however "veto" was probably too strong a word to use, although it seems to have made Firoun and Haman take a step back and think of a different plan.

                  - No after the 2nd meeting and the defeat of the Magicians, the signs that unfolded put Firoun on the defense. He had to summon Musa (as) again and again and ask him to tell his God (swt) to stop, and if the
                  calamity would stop he would listen to Musa (as) and let the Israelites go. He went back on his word every time but Musa (as) no longer had to hide or fear for his life, Firoun needed Musa alive.

                  Check my post above, section 3, why Firoun didnt kill Musa (as) afterwards.

                  --

                  Thing with this topic is we only have 2 sources.

                  1. Quran/Hadith/Scholars
                  2. Historical research.

                  I am also a details guy, but i would rather true details rather than made up romanticized accounts. I would love to know trivia like how old was Haman when he died, how long did he spend in the service of Firoun,
                  how big was the army of firoun - but this is trivia - the lessons from the story are captured in Quran. The trivia we can find out through 1) historical research 2) getting to jannah.
                  Last edited by coffeecat; 17-06-17, 04:51 PM.

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