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Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

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    Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

    Yesterday I had a conversation with a supporter of KSA, who gave pretty decent proofs in defense of KSA. Still not convinced though, thoughts?

    A. Revolting or standing up to this govt. even if misguided causes civil war, etc. as seen in Egypt, Syria, etc.

    B. Abu Bakrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “He who insults the rulers Allah will insult him.” [At-Tirmidhi].

    C. Know that a ruler's oppression does not reduce or remove anything which Allaah has made obligatory upon the tongue of the Messenger (salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). His [the ruler's] oppression is upon himself. Your acts of obedience and good deeds along with behaving well towards him are complete, if Allaah - the Most High - wills. Accompany them in all acts of obedience such as the congregational and Jumu'ah prayers, for you have your independent intention in that.

    D. And in the authentic hadeeth which is agreed upon, from the narration of Aboo Hurayrah, who related that the Messenger of Allaah -may Allaah raise his rank and grant him peace- said [what means]: “Whoever obeys me has obeyed Allaah, and whoever disobeys me has disobeyed Allaah. Whoever obeys my ameer (appointed leader) has obeyed me, and whoever disobeys my ameer has disobeyed me.” These are orders to obey both the scholars and the rulers.

    E. No, as long as they (rulers) establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.- Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

    These were his primary proofs in defense of Saudi Arabia saying even though it is corrupted, one should respect its authority.
    "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

    #2
    Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

    Why do you hate Saudi Arabia???

    And what will you gain if you manage to make others hate it too?

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

      Originally posted by DerGläubiger View Post
      Why do you hate Saudi Arabia???

      And what will you gain if you manage to make others hate it too?
      Did you read just the title? My opinion is still shaky on the issue. What has the great KSA done anyway?
      "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

        Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
        Did you read just the title? My opinion is still shaky on the issue. What has the great KSA done anyway?
        It's the only country the constitution of which is the Quran and the ahadith. If you should hate a country/government, it should be the US, Russia etc, not the KSA.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

          Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
          Yesterday I had a conversation with a supporter of KSA, who gave pretty decent proofs in defense of KSA. Still not convinced though, thoughts?

          A. Revolting or standing up to this govt. even if misguided causes civil war, etc. as seen in Egypt, Syria, etc.

          B. Abu Bakrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “He who insults the rulers Allah will insult him.” [At-Tirmidhi].

          C. Know that a ruler's oppression does not reduce or remove anything which Allaah has made obligatory upon the tongue of the Messenger (salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). His [the ruler's] oppression is upon himself. Your acts of obedience and good deeds along with behaving well towards him are complete, if Allaah - the Most High - wills. Accompany them in all acts of obedience such as the congregational and Jumu'ah prayers, for you have your independent intention in that.

          D. And in the authentic hadeeth which is agreed upon, from the narration of Aboo Hurayrah, who related that the Messenger of Allaah -may Allaah raise his rank and grant him peace- said [what means]: “Whoever obeys me has obeyed Allaah, and whoever disobeys me has disobeyed Allaah. Whoever obeys my ameer (appointed leader) has obeyed me, and whoever disobeys my ameer has disobeyed me.” These are orders to obey both the scholars and the rulers.

          E. No, as long as they (rulers) establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.- Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

          These were his primary proofs in defense of Saudi Arabia saying even though it is corrupted, one should respect its authority.
          :salams

          Could someone of more knowledge tell us, do any of these statements apply to the ruler who is a kafir, and calls the people to obey them in sinfulness and transgression and kufr?

          I don't consider the government of Saudi Arabia to be murtad, I have seen the argument made in many places using many different proofs and examples, but I really haven't found a scholar who I trust greatly who has issued this opinion. Sometimes it feels to me like almost all of the people who are making this argument are extreme in some other way, which makes me trust their judgement less, I don't know, maybe someone can tell me what they think?

          However, the argument that the Saudi Arabian government is murtad is just one side of the arguments of people who are against them. Personally, I think that some members of the government are corrupt thieves and quite tyrannical, and that the government's foreign policy is just terrible, and they don't do enough to help oppressed Muslims around the world, but thats just me. I don't think this makes them disbelievers though.
          وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
          They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

            Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
            Did you read just the title? My opinion is still shaky on the issue. What has the great KSA done anyway?
            Every time I see people like you I remember a post I read on islamic awakening a while back, saying that if these people read the history of the khilafahs they'd commit apostasy. Strong words but basically, your idea of how the islamic world looked like is so far from reality that you'd never accept it.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

              Originally posted by DerGläubiger View Post
              It's the only country the constitution of which is the Quran and the ahadith. If you should hate a country/government, it should be the US, Russia etc, not the KSA.
              Who said I don't hate these countries?
              "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                Originally posted by quark View Post
                Every time I see people like you I remember a post I read on islamic awakening a while back, saying that if these people read the history of the khilafahs they'd commit apostasy. Strong words but basically, your idea of how the islamic world looked like is so far from reality that you'd never accept it.
                Ah yes, KSA is like a khilafa ain't it.
                "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                  Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
                  Ah yes, KSA is like a khilafa ain't it.
                  You didn't understand me. What I'm trying to say is, it's better.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                    Originally posted by DerGläubiger View Post
                    It's the only country the constitution of which is the Quran and the ahadith. If you should hate a country/government, it should be the US, Russia etc, not the KSA.
                    You'd think so but no, sunnis hate sunni countries. Then they wonder why the shia are succeeding.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                      Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
                      Who said I don't hate these countries?
                      Then first try to change them and spread hatred towards them.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                        Originally posted by quark View Post
                        You didn't understand me. What I'm trying to say is, it's better.
                        Well played, yet to here what sect you follow.
                        "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                          Originally posted by ServantofArRahman View Post
                          Yesterday I had a conversation with a supporter of KSA, who gave pretty decent proofs in defense of KSA. Still not convinced though, thoughts?

                          A. Revolting or standing up to this govt. even if misguided causes civil war, etc. as seen in Egypt, Syria, etc.

                          B. Abu Bakrah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: I heard Messenger of Allah (sallallaahu ’alayhi wa sallam) saying, “He who insults the rulers Allah will insult him.” [At-Tirmidhi].

                          C. Know that a ruler's oppression does not reduce or remove anything which Allaah has made obligatory upon the tongue of the Messenger (salallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam). His [the ruler's] oppression is upon himself. Your acts of obedience and good deeds along with behaving well towards him are complete, if Allaah - the Most High - wills. Accompany them in all acts of obedience such as the congregational and Jumu'ah prayers, for you have your independent intention in that.

                          D. And in the authentic hadeeth which is agreed upon, from the narration of Aboo Hurayrah, who related that the Messenger of Allaah -may Allaah raise his rank and grant him peace- said [what means]: “Whoever obeys me has obeyed Allaah, and whoever disobeys me has disobeyed Allaah. Whoever obeys my ameer (appointed leader) has obeyed me, and whoever disobeys my ameer has disobeyed me.” These are orders to obey both the scholars and the rulers.

                          E. No, as long as they (rulers) establish prayer among you. If you find something hateful from them, you should hate their actions but not withdraw your hand from obedience.- Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 1855, Grade: Sahih

                          These were his primary proofs in defense of Saudi Arabia saying even though it is corrupted, one should respect its authority.
                          This would apply only to those living in Saudi. Is that where he lives?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                            Originally posted by DerGläubiger View Post
                            Then first try to change them and spread hatred towards them.
                            They're unanimously hated by any self-respecting Muslims.
                            "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Respecting Saudi Arabia supported by Sunnah?

                              Originally posted by quark View Post
                              You'd think so but no, sunnis hate sunni countries. Then they wonder why the shia are succeeding.
                              Much easier to establish filth then the haqq.
                              "What is asked today is uniting the ranks of the Muwahideen, and to re-unite the Muslims. And directing the efforts to confront the challenges/threats of the Majoos, Tawagith and their donkeys the Murji'ah and the secularists."- Shayk Sulayman Al Alwan

                              Comment

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