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Just a though: evolution & creation

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  • Just a though: evolution & creation

    What if evolution and creation story both happened? Indeed the creation story did happen, doubting that would make the doubter Kaafir.
    Let me explain it: let say there were ape-to-humanlike species(they looked humans, however they were animals , so they cant be punished in hell or rewarded in paradise), but there was also Adam and Eve. The offspring of Adam and Eve knows right and wrong, they have free will to choose good or evil.
    Maybe the ape-to-humanlike species lived millions years ago before Allah swt created Adam and Eve.


    Now u would ask me: if that is true, why are the apehumans not mentioned in quran? Then i can say: they were closer to animals whats the point of mentioning animals, and i can ask you in return: why are dinos not mentioned in quran or bible either?

    What do you think?
    Last edited by ForeverMonotheist1; 03-12-15, 03:58 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

    It's possible that Allah created a universe with all the laws of physics and all the basic building blocks of life in place.
    Evolutionary theory doesn't deny the existence of a God. It just suggests that if there is a God, then he created a universe with all the basic elements needed for life and created the rules where life could evolve in ways more complex, amazing and utterly mind-blowing than we could ever begin to imagine.
    One can believe that Allah did Creation, then perfectly set up the laws of science to allow people with free will to believe the scientific theory which appears flawless. There appears to be a time frame discrepancy between the two theories.
    I believe in creation and evolution, and that Allah created all things, and the science time frame. The rules are too perfect, and symmetry too beautiful, and suggest a master constructor to me.

    It's possible that Adam and Eve timeline overlaps with the evolution timeline and humans were going through an evolutionary period which could or couldn't have been the modern day humans. We will never know. There is no need for these things to be mentioned in Quran as it's not a book of science.
    the science of nature is for humans to explore.
    Last edited by sandman123; 03-12-15, 04:46 PM.
    "Don't be too perfect; no one will want to talk to you. Maintain a flaw or two to keep yourself approachable." -My guide to being amazing

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    • #3
      Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

      Originally posted by sandman123 View Post
      It's possible that Allah created a universe with all the laws of physics and all the basic building blocks of life in place, then sat back and watched how his experiment turned out.

      Evolutionary theory doesn't deny the existence of a God. It just suggests that if there is a God, then he created a universe with all the basic elements needed for life and created the rules where life could evolve in ways more complex, amazing and utterly mind-blowing than we could ever begin to imagine.
      One can believe that Allah did Creation, then perfectly set up the laws of science to allow people with free will to believe the scientific theory which appears flawless. There appears to be a time frame discrepancy between the two theories.
      I believe in creation and evolution, and that Allah created all things, and the science time frame. The rules are too perfect, and symmetry too beautiful, and suggest a master constructor to me.

      It's possible that Adam and Eve timeline overlaps with the evolution timeline and humans were going through an evolutionary period which could or couldn't have been the modern day humans. We will never know. There is no need for these things to be mentioned in Quran as it's not a book of science.
      the science of nature is for humans to explore.
      No.... this is kufr. It goes directly against what Allah has said.....

      Adam a.s. was created by sculptured wet clay and shaped by Allah SWT own hands. He breath his spirit into him and from his rib (adam) he created his wife Hawa.

      It's very clear, there is no "hidden meaning" in this.
      "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

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      • #4
        Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

        Originally posted by sandman123 View Post
        It's possible that Allah created a universe with all the laws of physics and all the basic building blocks of life in place, then sat back and watched how his experiment turned out...
        How can any Muslim talk so loosely about Allah like this?

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        • #5
          Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

          Originally posted by sandman123 View Post
          It's possible that Allah created a universe with all the laws of physics and all the basic building blocks of life in place, then sat back and watched how his experiment turned out.
          Allah (swt) does not need to "experiment" lol how ridiclious that even sounds

          Allah even says in the Quran He created the Creation for a True Purpose, A Powerful Reason, not for sport or play.

          And We did not create the heaven and earth and that between them in play. Had We intended to take a diversion, We could have taken it from [what is] with Us - if [indeed] We were to do so. [21:17]

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          • #6
            Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

            Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
            No.... this is kufr. It goes directly against what Allah has said.....

            Adam a.s. was created by sculptured wet clay and shaped by Allah SWT own hands. He breath his spirit into him and from his rib (adam) he created his wife Hawa.

            It's very clear, there is no "hidden meaning" in this.
            Can you disprove the evolution theory?
            All I'm saying is that it's possible for both the timelines to have existed. Adam and Eve did exist and so did the primitive humans. Not everything we know about life and universe is mentioned in Quran.
            Last edited by sandman123; 03-12-15, 04:51 PM.
            "Don't be too perfect; no one will want to talk to you. Maintain a flaw or two to keep yourself approachable." -My guide to being amazing

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

              Originally posted by ForeverMonotheist1 View Post
              What if evolution and creation story both happened? Indeed the creation story did happen, doubting that would make the doubter Kaafir.
              Let me explain it: let say there were ape-to-humanlike species(they looked humans, however they were animals , so they cant be punished in hell or rewarded in paradise), but there was also Adam and Eve. The offspring of Adam and Eve knows right and wrong, they have free will to choose good or evil.
              Maybe the ape-to-humanlike species lived millions years ago before Allah swt created Adam and Eve.


              Now u would ask me: if that is true, why are the apehumans not mentioned in quran? Then i can say: they were closer to animals whats the point of mentioning animals, and i can ask you in return: why are dinos not mentioned in quran or bible either?

              What do you think?
              Well there is no evidence so far of these half-human half-ape creatures except in the creative imagination of Atheist Scientists with a agenda.

              Christian, Muslim and Jewish scientists are not convinced by Darwinian evolution, nor are many other independent impartial Scientists who study this stuff day and night.

              Evidence for dinosaurs is quite convincing, their fossils record is solid and found around the world.

              But evidence for evolution ? Where are these half-human half-ape or Half-Bird Half-Lizard creatures ? How come not 1 such 'hybrid' survives till this day ?

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              • #8
                Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                How can any Muslim talk so loosely about Allah like this?

                Its funny... instead of searching what Allah has said, he goes ahead and says this...
                "There will never cease to remain a group from my Ummah fighting upon the command of Allah, subjugating their enemies. They are not harmed by those who oppose them, until the Hour arrives".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                  Originally posted by sandman123 View Post
                  Can you disprove the evolution theory?
                  All I'm saying is that it's possible for both the timelines to have existed. Adam and Eve did exist and so did the primitive humans. Not everything we know about life and universe is mentioned in Quran.
                  Darwinian Evolution theory has been disproven many times. It is only atheist circles that cling onto it.

                  Can you actually provide 100% proof that darwinian evolution is real ?

                  So many times in the past i was willing to accept evolution theory - even i was taught it in school (without evidence lol) - but i have yet to see
                  convincing proof.

                  The adherant of Darwinian evolution follow a cultlike structure, believing in unproven dogma, and they respond with ridiclue and insults to anyone who
                  questions their theory. Last time i check nearly 50% of scientists are not convinced by darwinian evolution despite the massive attempts to promite it
                  worldwide.

                  Its overall credibility (and reasons for belief) are not much better than the Christian Bible, which it was created to challenge and replace.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                    Originally posted by rebuilding View Post
                    Well there is no evidence so far of these half-human half-ape creatures except in the creative imagination of Atheist Scientists with a agenda.

                    Christian, Muslim and Jewish scientists are not convinced by Darwinian evolution, nor are many other independent impartial Scientists who study this stuff day and night.

                    Evidence for dinosaurs is quite convincing, their fossils record is solid and found around the world.

                    But evidence for evolution ? Where are these half-human half-ape or Half-Bird Half-Lizard creatures ? How come not 1 such 'hybrid' survives till this day ?
                    The vast majority of scientists accept evolution as supported by evidence, and the position of just about every reputable scientific body is that evolution is extremely well-supported, including the International Council for Science and the national science bodies of just about every country that has one. While not every scientist accepts it, most do and generally those that don't are seen as fringe-y or less credible.

                    In general, it is most supported by biologists and similar fields. There may be a few more people who disagree in mathematics and related fields that don't involve evolution or biology to any great extent. Scrounging a few hundred names is no substitute for evidence or reasoned analysis of the issue, and when that is done the view of the scientific community as a whole is strongly in favour of evolution.
                    "Don't be too perfect; no one will want to talk to you. Maintain a flaw or two to keep yourself approachable." -My guide to being amazing

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                      Originally posted by ForeverMonotheist1 View Post
                      What if evolution and creation story both happened? Indeed the creation story did happen, doubting that would make the doubter Kaafir.
                      Let me explain it: let say there were ape-to-humanlike species(they looked humans, however they were animals , so they cant be punished in hell or rewarded in paradise), but there was also Adam and Eve. The offspring of Adam and Eve knows right and wrong, they have free will to choose good or evil.
                      Maybe the ape-to-humanlike species lived millions years ago before Allah swt created Adam and Eve.


                      Now u would ask me: if that is true, why are the apehumans not mentioned in quran? Then i can say: they were closer to animals whats the point of mentioning animals, and i can ask you in return: why are dinos not mentioned in quran or bible either?

                      What do you think?
                      I don't have much knowledge on the topic but here is my understanding and Allah knows best.

                      Many animals have evolved over time...many reptilian creatures had ancestors who were dinosaurs, its said that the mammoth is the ancestor of the modern day elephant. So with extensive questioning anlong those lines, many people in the fields of biology and human anthropology have come to that conclusion.

                      But evolution for human beings...Allah (Swt) said that all of mankind came from Adam and Adam came from clay....that's how I learned it at least. So this means all of human beings came about from our father and mother Adam and Eve and reproduction over time has increased the number of people to billions today. This is what I know.

                      Apes and monkeys and other creatures from that mammalian species do look like us in certain features, that they have thumbs and are smart animals. That is a miracle of Allah's creation, that they are all unique. Dinosaurs may have died out, and maybe, allahu a'lam, that there were animals seperate frm apes that had minor humanoid features....but they aren't human beings because from my understanding Islam teaches all human beings came from Adam and Eve. And it makes sense because it's from their time to 2015, that's way more than enough time for the earth to be filled with many billion of Adam's children, if you see what I mean.

                      Also Ya'juj and Ma'juj who will come out at the end of time, they are huge and they have certain abilities (I think) that we don't have....yet they came from Adam just as we did. Which is why my current point of view is that the evolutionary theory doesn't apply directly to humans, but you can see why scientists developed the theory, because to a lot of people, it makes sense. But when the creation of the world as per Islam comes into the picture it is different from what general science teaches.

                      I think you brought up an interesting topic. I will be very interested to hear the dialogue that goes on in this thread insha allah. : )
                      Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                        Originally posted by Figs View Post
                        I don't have much knowledge on the topic but here is my understanding and Allah knows best.

                        Many animals have evolved over time...many reptilian creatures had ancestors who were dinosaurs, its said that the mammoth is the ancestor of the modern day elephant. So with extensive questioning anlong those lines, many people in the fields of biology and human anthropology have come to that conclusion.

                        But evolution for human beings...Allah (Swt) said that all of mankind came from Adam and Adam came from clay....that's how I learned it at least. So this means all of human beings came about from our father and mother Adam and Eve and reproduction over time has increased the number of people to billions today. This is what I know.

                        Apes and monkeys and other creatures from that mammalian species do look like us in certain features, that they have thumbs and are smart animals. That is a miracle of Allah's creation, that they are all unique. Dinosaurs may have died out, and maybe, allahu a'lam, that there were animals seperate frm apes that had minor humanoid features....but they aren't human beings because from my understanding Islam teaches all human beings came from Adam and Eve. And it makes sense because it's from their time to 2015, that's way more than enough time for the earth to be filled with many billion of Adam's children, if you see what I mean.

                        Also Ya'juj and Ma'juj who will come out at the end of time, they are huge and they have certain abilities (I think) that we don't have....yet they came from Adam just as we did. Which is why my current point of view is that the evolutionary theory doesn't apply directly to humans, but you can see why scientists developed the theory, because to a lot of people, it makes sense. But when the creation of the world as per Islam comes into the picture it is different from what general science teaches.

                        I think you brought up an interesting topic. I will be very interested to hear the dialogue that goes on in this thread insha allah. : )


                        Sister i agree with u that all mankind comes from Adam and Eve rahimahumullaah.
                        May Allah reward u for your input.

                        I dont doubt the story of creation. I believe in it 100% alhamdulilah.

                        But what i mean is what if there were other species close to mankind but are not humans at all.
                        Apehumans who are not offspring of Adam and Hawa rahimahumullah.
                        These apehumans had no thinking and were infact animals in logic. Deprived from knowledge and the senting of guidance(prophets).

                        So what if the apehumans existed before adam and hawa rahimahumullaah and they have no blood connection to our First Parents.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                          I don't understand something.

                          “KUN FAYAKUN” (كُنْ فَيَكُونُ)

                          Allah says be and it is. Then Where is the room or need for processes like evolution and Big Bang etc?

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                          • #14
                            Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                            You can believe in evolution and be religious at the same time. A lot of religious people have done that. Maybe adam and eve are the first homo sapiens and god intrinsically placed them at a time where it would perfectly fit the evolutionary line.

                            I'm also open to the idea that adam and eve might not even real humans, just metaphorical in some sort of way. And I know after saying that, some people will call me kufr because they can't keep an open mind. I'm not claiming anything though, just stating possibilities.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Just a though: evolution & creation

                              Search up the "argument from irreducible biochemical complexity" and "argument from biological information".

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