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LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible ?

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  • LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible ?

    :salams

    Dear Brothers & Sisters,

    I never ever dreamed that I would write a thread on this which would be apparent from my threads which i have never discussed with the so called Barelvi Brothers since I thought its utter vain since there is a earth to sky difference in the Creed relating to articles of Faith itself and I thought why should i waste time with a Spoilt hopeless (asthaughfirullah) ones untill i saw this video by Shayk Hussain Ali https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IFO...ature=youtu.be

    So i never bothered to reply to some of their posts so I made a new thread transferring Post #475 from this thread
    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthrea...s-halal/page12 and other posts of # 461,466,468,480 (are not yet transfered here) are worth a good read since i've written them with hours of thinking. So the post # 475

    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

    The Prophet :saw: has guaranteed correct guidance until the end of time.



    The Messenger of Allah :saw: said: “There will ALWAYS be a party amongst my Umma that is victorious upon the Truth, abandoning them will not harm them, until the order of Allah is given and they will be in that state.”[ Muslim, Sahih (#1920 and 1037)] There are several hadiths that support this. (1)
    Asalamalikum wrwb

    Brother [MENTION=86685]aMuslimForLife[/MENTION] , Correct guidance for who ? ONLY for those who follow Quran and sunnah and the Ahlul bayt in some versions as per the MOST IMPORTANT last haj Sermon of Prophet :saw: . But you are against even the Noble Quran itselves see this below verse:

    Noble Quran 6:159 ''Indeed, those who have divided their religion and become sects - you, [O Muhammad], are not [associated] with them in anything. Their affair is only [left] to Allah ; then He will inform them about what they used to do.''



    But who is in guidance when YOU ARE THE FIRST to start giving fatwas in 1856 on all others Muslims (3 major branches) and rejected all others as in kufar and misguidance and you fell into a sect ?

    But who is in Guidance when you did not abide by the most important advice or Order on the most sacred day of Haj in the last sermon of Prophet:saw: which had witnesses of more than 120,000 People , The strongest ever hadith ???

    ''I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray. All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people.............................''


    Therefore you went against the above Noble quran verse 6:159 and also against the following Hadith of Prophet :saw: instead.

    Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith # 419Narrated A'isha (R.A)
    Um Habiba (R.A) and Um Salama (R.A) mentioned about a church they had seen in Ethiopia in which there were pictures. They told the Prophet (S.A.W) about it, on which he said, "If any religious man dies amongst those people they would build a place of worship at his grave and make these pictures in it. They will be the worst creature in the sight of Allah on the Day of Resurrection."

    and many more hadiths on graves and making festivity .




    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
    Safety is found in following the scholars, what they say is part of our religion.

    "Ask those who recall if you know not"
    (Qur’an 16:43),
    You misquoted this verse which was referring with Messengers ie POB to ask whether they did have Messengers, Scripture ,knew angel Gabriel, DOJ etc as in the below tafsir to be clearer http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?...0&LanguageId=2

    ''(And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee) O Muhammad (other than men) human beings like you (whom We inspired) with commands and prohibitions and signs. (Ask the followers of the Remembrance) the followers of the Torah and the Gospel (if ye know not!) that Allah always sent human messengers.''

    Yes Scholars are heirs of Prophet , I agree with that


    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
    Shaykh Abdur Rahman Ash Shaghouri said, "What the Imams have recorded is our religion."

    Allah says, "O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result." (4:59)

    Those in authority after the Prophet :saw: are the scholars.

    The Prophet :saw: said, "The scholars are the heirs of the Prophets. The Prophets leave no money as a bequest, rather they leave knowledge. Whoever seizes it has taken a bountiful share." (Musnad Ahmad, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah)
    Yes I fully agree with this but the ( people of authority is Rulers and then Scholars as in the above Tafsir) Scholars but who could be better Scholars than the sahabas, Tabieen ,and tabe tabieen ? the Madhabi Imaams ??? (Maximum) which are the roots of islam ???

    But Why should You prefer Scholars after 1200 years after them since this hadith is a clear warning

    PROPHET GUARANTEED ONLY UNTILL TABE'IEN.
    Sayyidina lmran ibn Husayn (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger said, The best of my ummah is the generation to which 1 have been sent, then they who will follow them.’ The narrator said, ‘And I do not remember if he mentioned the third (generation) or not, “After that’, the Prophet (SAW) said, “A people will come who will voluntarily give testimony, they will commit treachery and will not be trustworthy. They will be corpulent, generally. [Bukhari 2651]

    Note : there are around 10 such hadiths from various narrators including Ummul Muhmineen Aysha (arh anha) Abdullah Ibn Masud (RA) about whom Prophet :saw: guaranteed EXCLUSIVELY. Will you not pay heed to even one of them ??? ;)



    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
    Allah says in the Quran, "They have taken their scholars (Rabbis) and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him." (9:31)

    The Messenger of Allah :saw: recited this Ayah, "'They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah'. `Adi commented, "I said, `They did not worship them.''' The Prophet said, 'Yes they did. They (rabbis and monks) prohibited what was permissible for them (Christians and Jews) and made permissible the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshipped them.'" (Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad)
    Jazakallah for quoting this which i wanted to quote myself , but its better this way when Haq from the Noble Quran is coming from you so you think first who are taking their Scholars as Rab ? Making Halal whatever they declared ? taking Haram- Kuffar fatwa on the Ummah ???

    1)So Brother Kindly answer me who took the scholars after 1200 years AFTER Prophet :saw: as lords besides Allah ? taking whatever they said as halal and going against this famous Hadith

    Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 23 :: Hadith 472
    Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle in his fatal illness said, "Allah cursed the Jews and the Christians, for they built the places of worship at the graves of their prophets." And if that had not been the case, then the Prophet's grave would have been made prominent before the people. So (the Prophet ) was afraid, or the people were afraid that his grave might be taken as a place for worship.
    &
    Dawud :: Book 10 : Hadith 2037
    Narrated AbuHurayrah: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Do not make your houses graves, and do not make my grave a place of festivity. But invoke blessings on me, for your blessings reach me wherever you may be.

    Note : Kindly contemplate who build structures on graves which our Prophet :saw: had Warned us even in his last few days even when he was with high fever ?

    2) And who is believing that dead can bring them benefit, remove Harm ?. when Allah says to invoke him directly in the below verse

    Noble Quran 6:71 '' Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Shall we invoke others besides Allah (false deities), that can do us neither good nor harm, and shall we turn on our heels after Allah has guided us (to true Monotheism)? - like one whom the Shayatin (devils) have made to go astray, confused (wandering) through the earth, his companions calling him to guidance (saying): 'Come to us.' " Say: "Verily, Allah 's Guidance is the only guidance, and we have been commanded to submit (ourselves) to the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists);


    2) Beleiving in Hazar Nazar whicH is the sifat of Allah swt alone ,Naudhubillah

    WHICH AWLIYAH ALLAH IS THERE WITH YOU WHEN YOU ARE IN A SHIP AT THE DEEP OCEAN ?

    Noble Quran 29:65 ''And when they embark on a ship, they invoke Allah, making their Faith PURE FOR HIM ONLY, but when He brings them safely to land, behold, they give a share of their worship to others. (Al-'Ankabut 29:65)

    NOBLE QURAN 39:3 ''Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say) : "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.''

    Noble Quran 112:4
    (And there is none comparable unto Him) He says: He does not have an opposite, peer, or equal nor anyone who may resemble or begin to resemble Him; and it is also said this means: He does not have any co-equal who would compete with Him about dominion and sovereignty'.

    So How dare you compare Allah's quality of Hazar, Nazar with any body else ??? a Big SIN as near as SHIRK against the above verse ?

    If you think about the daleel that Nabi :saw: prophesied going on Mutah about the martyrdom of Zaid, Jafar ( radhiallahu ajmaeen) its because Allah showed to him and same as the hadith something like Nabi :saw: saw his muqtadis or followers of his prayers who were praying behind him . So kindly stop with what's its told in Hadith & Quran and never go beyond that as we know Prophet :saw: did not know when he was faked twice by pagans taking many qurah's and martyred them for which he started reciting Qunoot cursing them which happened as per the Qadr of those Martyr and it was a Lesson for us to avoid from getting deviated like the Christians did with Jesus (pbuh) whom they raised Jesus (pbuh) equal in the traits & level of God , The ONLY All mighty
    So are you following their same way or near the same path giving Prophet :saw: Allah like traits ??

    3)and there are tons more here
    http://islamqa.info/en/150265
    www.islamqa.com/en/ref/13490
    www.islamqa.com/en/ref/91763




    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
    Scholars have the job of trying to keep up to this standard. While it may be easy just to prohibit every single thing, which may seem to be haram (forbidden), scholars do not have that luxury, of just making everything haram (forbidden) because it seems like the is easiest thing to do, or the so-called safest thing to do. For them it is not the safest thing to do, what is a safe thing for them to do, is to give the most accurate fatwa as possible. They can't deem something impermissible just because the Salafus Saleh didn't do it. If there is proof for something even if the Salafus Saleh didn't do it, they have to allow it. Even if scholars differ on the issue.

    Just because the Salafus Saleh didn't do it, doesn't mean it is haraam

    An example of this, Salat al-janaza `ala al-gha'ibin. The prayer of the dead while the body is not present.

    There is an authentic hadith, in which the Prophet :saw: prayed Salat al-janaza for Negus, the King of the Abyssinians. However, it is my understanding no one from the Salafus Saleh (Companions, Tabieen and tabi tabieen) prayed, Salat al-janaza `ala al-gha'ibin, thus according to the Hanafis and Malikis it is impermissible to pray, Salat al-janaza `ala al-gha'ibin. However because of the Hadith, eventhough it may not have been the practice of the Salafus Saleh, the Shafis and Hanbalis have considered Salat al-janaza `ala al-gha'ibin to be permissible.

    At the same time, NOT every authentic hadith is considered a proof.

    For example, the permissibility of praying jumah prayer before dhuhr. In the Hanbali it is permitted to pray jumah prayer before dhuhr and there is an authentic hadith in Bukhari or Muslim supporting this. However, the Hanafis, the Maliki and Shafis consider it impermissible to pray Jumah prayer before dhuhr.
    I can agree with you in some but i can also refute some depending upon the difference of opinions but that's secondary matter but its not my aim to create an argument but THERE"S NO GIVING UP in the matters of Creed and closely related to Articles of Faith of Islam in matters of TAUHEED which is a hell or paradise issue or a life & death issue where no one is a wise man if he took risk and that too on a matter Akirat, Eternity ??? that will be stupid of me if I do not speak against about !!!


    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
    This is to say much of Islamic fiqh is not black and white, there is a little ambiguity in Usul fiqh. It doesn't mean that it is doubtful, just much more complex then what people make it out to be.

    The scholars have deemed what exist within the four madhabs as permissible.

    And Allah knows best.
    So dear, I agree with you here So do You agree with me that You should not be doing anything against the Imamae Azam , The Only Tabieen Madhabi Imaam who met about 14 sahabas . Abu hanifa (rah alay) who's fatwa is here below

    Originally posted by ZeeshanParvez View Post
    Yes.

    Here is the Arabic

    لا ينبغي لاحد أن يدعو الله إلا به

    It is not proper for anyone to call upon Allah except by Himself


    Source:

    الدر المختار من حاشية المختار 6/396-397

    يكره أن يقول الداعي : أسألك بحق فلان أو بحق أنبيائك ورسلك وبحق البيت الحرام والمشعر الحرام


    Imam Abu Hanifah detested that a person say I ask You by your Throne or I ask You by the right of Your Prophets or I ask You by the right of Your Messengers or by the right of The Sacred House


    Source:

    شرح العقيدة الطحاوية 234، واتحاف السادة المتقين 2/285 ، وشرح الفقه الأكبر للقاري 189
    So Do you agree not to call by any one Name Besides Allah , alone ?




    Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

    (1) Several Hadith that has guaranteed correct guidance until the end of time.

    1. What Bukhari has narrated from al-Mughira b. Shu`ba who said that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “There will always be a party amongst my Umma that will be victorious and Allah will cause them to be victorious.”[ Bukhari, Sahih (#3640-3641).]
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .......................
    11. What al-Tabarani mentions in [al-Mu`jam] al-Kabir:[9] “There will always be a party from my Umma triumphant on the truth and victorious over those who fight them and no harm will come to them from those who oppose them, until the order of Allah comes and they are so. They asked: ‘Messenger of Allah, where are they?’ He replied, ‘In Bayt al-Maqdis’…”
    But who is in Guidance when you did not abide by the most important advice or Order on the most sacred day of Haj in the last sermon of Prophet:saw: which had witnesess of more than 120,000 People , The strongest ever hadith ???


    Note : to be edited further inshallah
    Last edited by talibilm09; 02-12-15, 10:39 AM.
    My sect - No Sect

    My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

    Just a Muslim

  • #2
    Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

    Brother , you worked hard on the post , and always your presentation is excellent . :up:

    I do not understand what you trying to say ? Are you asking any question ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

      Originally posted by Bismil View Post
      Brother , you worked hard on the post , and always your presentation is excellent . :up:

      I do not understand what you trying to say ? Are you asking any question ?
      I guess his questions are referred only to those who he mentioned with their quotes. I can answer his question which he directed to [MENTION=40692]ZeeshanParvez[/MENTION] but it was actually to him, so let him come up to answer.

      Masha-ALLAH, he worked hard.
      Nasheeds By Al-Munshid Muhammad Al-Wahaj


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

        OP, for your information, tawassul of Hadhrat Adam Alaihi Salam is not proven. His du'a is mentioned by Quran and its commentaries by Sunnah and it is refuted by Quran itself. The hadith about tawassul of Adam through Prophet PBUH is fabricated for many reasons.

        Waseela, is the way of reaching Allaah, and there is no way of reaching Him except the way that Allaah loves and is pleased with, which is by obeying Him and not disobeying Him.

        We can reach to ALLAH (Meaning, seeking his happiness so He grant us Jannah) through His attributes and our sincere deeds which we did for him and deed must be based on Muhammad's Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam instructed way OR proven from Quran and Sunnah. Every innovation is bid'ah. ALLAH is good and He accepts only what is good. Bid'ah is the sure way to hell-fire.
        Nasheeds By Al-Munshid Muhammad Al-Wahaj


        Comment


        • #5
          Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

          Originally posted by Bismil View Post
          Brother , you worked hard on the post , and always your presentation is excellent . :up:

          I do not understand what you trying to say ? Are you asking any question ?

          Salam brother,

          Yes, Bro aMuslimForlife is endorsed by Bro Assalah as knowledgeable so I am questioning on each issue of us tempting to Refute If I am wrong,

          If you had read my other Previous posts in thread '' Mixing Mazhabs Halal ?'' we had agreed to a standard or Criterion on what basis we could refute each other, which My view was we will use references untill the Tabieen so that these issues as important as near to the articles of faith itself ,how could we take risk to their Scholars they quotes after 700 years ?


          Jazakallah Khair.
          Last edited by talibilm09; 02-12-15, 10:50 AM.
          My sect - No Sect

          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

          Just a Muslim

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

            Originally posted by muhammadwahaj View Post
            I guess his questions are referred only to those who he mentioned with their quotes. I can answer his question which he directed to [MENTION=40692]ZeeshanParvez[/MENTION] but it was actually to him, so let him come up to answer.

            Masha-ALLAH, he worked hard.
            Salam brother,

            But wait for brother Zeeshan to answer and you also give your view inshallah , we don't know though whom Allah can give leads to the Ummah , just a matter of hikmah can break the ice. But its very important to speak on the Unity of Ummah because a Mishkat hadith said something like unting two fighting muslims is better than Nafl salah, fasting and sadaqa.
            My sect - No Sect

            My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

            Just a Muslim

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

              How much time do you spend on the fonts and stuff?
              You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

              You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                How much time do you spend on the fonts and stuff?
                Salam, Why waste your time like this ? ok i will give you a reward cup,lol ie ie:watermelon: (its the only thing avaiable in similees :D

                You did not keep your promise to write about that hadith on those People on Guidance till the last days , So write about it ..
                Last edited by talibilm09; 02-12-15, 10:56 AM.
                My sect - No Sect

                My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                Just a Muslim

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                  Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post
                  Salam brother,

                  But wait for brother Zeeshan to answer and you also give your view inshallah , we don't know though whom Allah can give leads to the Ummah , just a matter of hikmah can break the ice. But its very important to speak on the Unity of Ummah because a Mishkat hadith said something like unting two fighting muslims is better than Nafl salah, fasting and sadaqa.
                  Sure brother, I agree with you.

                  I wanted to ask a question to a good knowledge-able person that if Imam Abu Hanifa's statement gets proved that it was based on da'eef hadith and on the opposite side, you get a sahih evidence to do some thing, what a muqallid should do? because as it is defined by ahnaaf scholars that it is must to follow what Imam Abu Hanifa said. In clear words, I want a ruling based on what ahnaaf scholars say, not any personal opinion, because muqallids are not free for making opinions.

                  Would he accept Imam's view on expense of sahih hadith as presented by opposition? And be informed that Imam Abu Hanifa was mujtahid, so we love him, and he is not sinful Insha-ALLAH as there are lots of possibilities. I don't intend any kind of slander because he is my own Imam and why I will slander my Imam! lol

                  Just asking a general question for my knowledge.
                  Nasheeds By Al-Munshid Muhammad Al-Wahaj


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                    Originally posted by muhammadwahaj View Post
                    Sure brother, I agree with you.

                    I wanted to ask a question to a good knowledge-able person that if Imam Abu Hanifa's statement gets proved that it was based on da'eef hadith and on the opposite side, you get a sahih evidence to do some thing, what a muqallid should do? because as it is defined by ahnaaf scholars that it is must to follow what Imam Abu Hanifa said. In clear words, I want a ruling based on what ahnaaf scholars say, not any personal opinion, because muqallids are not free for making opinions.

                    Would he accept Imam's view on expense of sahih hadith as presented by opposition? And be informed that Imam Abu Hanifa was mujtahid, so we love him, and he is not sinful Insha-ALLAH as there are lots of possibilities. I don't intend any kind of slander because he is my own Imam and why I will slander my Imam! lol

                    Just asking a general question for my knowledge.
                    Brother,

                    I got the answer by myself.

                    Ashraf Ali Thanvi : “Believing in saying of man of this Ummah without Daleel… Believing in Hukm of Allah and his Prophet saw is not called taqleed, but is is called Ittiba’”

                    Ibn Humam said in his Tahreer as quoted from Shawkanee in his Irshad Al Fuhul: “ Taqleed is acting on action of someone whose saying is not among Hujjah without prove”

                    Ahsraf Ali Thanvi said : “ The reality of Taqleed Shaksee is that one person in all cases turns to one scholar to act ..”
                    Nasheeds By Al-Munshid Muhammad Al-Wahaj


                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                      Originally posted by muhammadwahaj View Post
                      Sure brother, I agree with you.

                      I wanted to ask a question to a good knowledge-able person that if Imam Abu Hanifa's statement gets proved that it was based on da'eef hadith and on the opposite side, you get a sahih evidence to do some thing, what a muqallid should do? because as it is defined by ahnaaf scholars that it is must to follow what Imam Abu Hanifa said. In clear words, I want a ruling based on what ahnaaf scholars say, not any personal opinion, because muqallids are not free for making opinions.

                      Would he accept Imam's view on expense of sahih hadith as presented by opposition? And be informed that Imam Abu Hanifa was mujtahid, so we love him, and he is not sinful Insha-ALLAH as there are lots of possibilities. I don't intend any kind of slander because he is my own Imam and why I will slander my Imam! lol
                      Just asking a general question for my knowledge.
                      Jazakallah for both of your posts they are informative

                      Complicated question but taking the permissions & instruction below allowed by the Imaam him selves we should take Sahih Hadith.

                      Imam Abu Hanifa said: “woe be to you Ya’qoob. Do not write down everything you hear from me, for surely I may hold an opinion today and leave it tomorrow, hold another tomorrow and leave it the day after”

                      He also said: “if a hadeeth is found to be authentic, that is my madhab”

                      And he said: “If I say something that goes against the Book of Allaah or the report of the Messenger :saw:, then ignore what I say.”

                      (I took it from a link [MENTION=40692]ZeeshanParvez[/MENTION] is that right , Bro)

                      But my opinion is be a strict Hanafi but in the matters of Haram and halal be afraid of the verse 9:31 quoted below , None decides Haram & Halal except Allah alone Not even Prophet :saw: . (http://legacy.quran.com/66/1) Those in the matter of Doubt about ONLY FOOD avoid it as Makruah but Never as a Haram .So other Harams like of meat of Donkey seen only in hadith (not in Noble Quran) are to be followed which Prophet :saw: followed as per the instruction of Allah only. So i ate crab (Only sea ones but avoid 100 % the land amphibian one because sea food is clean is the Sahih and No Objection from the noble Quran) just to prove this verse but I mostly 95 % avoid eating it but as Makrua (not as Haram). though Muqalids will look down at me like Ghair Deen itself,(not Ghair Muqalid ) lol but I do not care who says what untill our Intention Allah Knows is to abide by ONLY His Law. Nothing is as protected as the Noble Quran. But avoiding THE GREY AREA WHICH IS NOT CLEAR CUT IN THE NOBLE QURAN & THE HADITHS is another issue and Hadiths labels it, the grey area as to be considered Haram . (should not confuse with both like foods which Allah clearly stated in the noble Quran as '' All Prohibited are .........'')

                      ''"They have taken their scholars (Rabbis) and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him." (9:31)

                      The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah, "'They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah'. `Adi commented, "I said, `They did not worship them.''' The Prophet said, 'Yes they did. They (rabbis and monks) prohibited what was permissible for them (Christians and Jews) and made permissible the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshipped them.'" (Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad)

                      But all other Matter I try to be strict Hanafi except if anything is VERY CLEAR FROM THE NOBLE QURAN .
                      Last edited by talibilm09; 03-12-15, 01:08 AM.
                      My sect - No Sect

                      My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                      Just a Muslim

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                        Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post

                        Salam brother,

                        Yes, Bro aMuslimForlife is endorsed by Bro Assalah as knowledgeable so I am questioning on each issue of us tempting to Refute If I am wrong,

                        If you had read my other Previous posts in thread '' Mixing Mazhabs Halal ?'' we had agreed to a standard or Criterion on what basis we could refute each other, which My view was we will use references untill the Tabieen so that these issues as important as near to the articles of faith itself ,how could we take risk to their Scholars they quotes after 700 years ?


                        Jazakallah Khair.

                        Prophet :saw:said,

                        *** “Truly, Allah does not remove Sacred Knowedge by taking it out of servants, but rather by taking back the souls of Islamic scholars [in death], until, when He has not left a single scholar, the people take the ignorant as leaders, who are asked for and who give Islamic legal opinion without knowledge, misguided and misguiding” (Al Bukhari, 1.194, hadith 100).

                        The ability to quote the Quran and Sunnah doesnt make one a scholar, and you nor I are NOT scholars. I take my knowledge from the scholars.

                        May Allah protect us from ignorant who think they are knowledgeable. Amin.
                        My Blog ---> Reflections of the Traveler http://baraka.wordpress.com

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                        • #13
                          Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                          Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post
                          Prophet :saw:said,

                          *** “Truly, Allah does not remove Sacred Knowedge by taking it out of servants, but rather by taking back the souls of Islamic scholars [in death], until, when He has not left a single scholar, the people take the ignorant as leaders, who are asked for and who give Islamic legal opinion without knowledge, misguided and misguiding” (Al Bukhari, 1.194, hadith 100).

                          The ability to quote the Quran and Sunnah doesnt make one a scholar, and you nor I are NOT scholars. I take my knowledge from the scholars.

                          May Allah protect us from ignorant who think they are knowledgeable. Amin.
                          Yes that's true and what about which you had said earlier as the below post


                          Originally posted by aMuslimForLife View Post

                          The Prophet :saw: has guaranteed correct guidance until the end of time.


                          Safety is found in following the scholars, what they say is part of our religion.

                          "Ask those who recall if you know not"
                          (Qur’an 16:43),

                          The Messenger of Allah :saw: said: “There will ALWAYS be a party amongst my Umma that is victorious upon the Truth, abandoning them will not harm them, until the order of Allah is given and they will be in that state.”[ Muslim, Sahih (#1920 and 1037)] There are several hadiths that support this. (1)
                          So that's why I recommend to prefer the scholars at the roots of islam ie sahabas, tabieen , tabe tabieen etc to be safe And things that are Clear Cut from the Noble Quran & Sahih Hadith are giving clear leads in which direction one is towards, and Allah gave Basic Islam without shirk clear cut to every interested Muslim and is not a MONOPOLY of only ot the Scholars its for every Common Muslim like the Air and water is common for every living being. we have not touched profound matters of Islam but still talking about the Basics which we could talk , understand, inshallah.
                          Last edited by talibilm09; 02-12-15, 05:36 PM.
                          My sect - No Sect

                          My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                          Just a Muslim

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                          • #14
                            Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                            Originally posted by talibilm09 View Post


                            Jazakallah for both of your posts they are informative

                            Complicated question but taking the permissions & instruction below allowed by the Imaam him selves we should take Sahih Hadith.

                            Imam Abu Hanifa said: “woe be to you Ya’qoob. Do not write down everything you hear from me, for surely I may hold an opinion today and leave it tomorrow, hold another tomorrow and leave it the day after”

                            He also said: “if a hadeeth is found to be authentic, that is my madhab”

                            And he said: “If I say something that goes against the Book of Allaah or the report of the Messenger :saw:, then ignore what I say.”

                            (I took it from a link [MENTION=40692]ZeeshanParvez[/MENTION] is that right , Bro)

                            But my opinion is be a strict Hanafi but in the matters of Haram and halal be afraid of the verse 9:31 quoted below , None decides Haram & Halal except Allah alone Not even Prophet :saw: . (Noble Quran) Those in the matter of Doubt about ONLY FOOD avoid it as Makruah but Never as a Haram . So i ate crab (Only sea ones but avoid 100 % the land amphibian one because sea food is clean is the Sahih and No Objection from the noble Quran) just to prove this verse but I mostly 95 % avoid eating it but as Makrua (not as Haram). though Muqalids will look down at me like Ghair Mazhab,(not Ghair Muqalid ) lol but I do not care who says what untill our Intention Allah Knows is to abide by ONLY His Law. Nothing is as protected as the Noble Quran. But avoiding THE GREY AREA WHICH IS NOT CLEAR CUT IN THE NOBLE QURAN & THE HADITHS is another issue and Hadiths labels it, the grey area as to be considered Haram . (should not confuse with both like foods which Allah clearly stated in the noble Quran as '' All Prohibited are .........'')

                            ''"They have taken their scholars (Rabbis) and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him." (9:31)

                            The Messenger of Allah recited this Ayah, "'They took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allah'. `Adi commented, "I said, `They did not worship them.''' The Prophet said, 'Yes they did. They (rabbis and monks) prohibited what was permissible for them (Christians and Jews) and made permissible the prohibited, and they obeyed them. This is how they worshipped them.'" (Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad)

                            But all other Matter I try to be strict Hanafi except if anything is VERY CLEAR FROM THE NOBLE QURAN .
                            Assalam O Alaikum bro,

                            I am agree with every evidence you gave, and I am known to them too. That is what I show to a strict hanafi that Imam himself taught us to follow him, so if someone rejects something based on the evidence that one side have weak and other side have strong, then taking strong is what is instructed by Imam Abu Hanifa (My Beloved Imam!)

                            But it is going against taqleed-e-shaksi as you can clearly read what Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi said himself about taqleed-e-shaksi.

                            The reason why I asked you that question (and I knew that if you are sincere, then you will give those answers) and alhamdulillah it proves you are sincere. May ALLAH reward you for being sincere. Surely he accept deeds which are done sincerely and purely for Him (provided the fact that it must be proven though. I wanted to request to my all ahnaaf brothers that true followers are Imam's own student. So if his own student can leave some of his opinions/fatwas for some reasons, then would you call his students "Gustakh" or "Ghair Muqallid"? No, you won't (as I hope). But if someone starts to do for example rafa-al-yadain which have strong evidence based on the other side, then why you call him "wahabi"?

                            The fact is, Imam Abu Hanifa himself was a ghair-muqallid. (Said by Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi who is on top list of akabireen-e-deoband)

                            "Ashraf Ali Thanwi Deobandi said: “we our selves are the Mu'taqid and Muqallid of a Ghair Muqallid because Imaam Abu Haneefah being a Ghair Muqallid is Certain.”

                            [Majalis Hakeem ul-Ummat Pg 345, Malfodhaat Hakeem ul-Ummat Vol 24 Pg 332]"

                            My only request is that, please refrain from putting the term "Vehebi" or "Wahabi or Najdi" due to your hatred in your heart. Is it fair to label someone a "Wahabi" if one is doing rafa-al-yadain based on strong evidence? If he is tieing his hands near chest? If he feel this forbidden to follow Imam blindly without verification of their dalail?

                            I am not saying that you do this, but I noticed most people (even in this forum) are doing it. I am sorry, didn't meant to hijack your thread! :)

                            P.S: You are right, you may be labelled as "Ghair Muqallid" by your fellow ahnaafs. Their next question to you will be "The buffalo meat is halal or haram?" OR "Saying adhan in loud speaker is bid'ah or not?" Believe me, these questions were directed to me by my deoband friend.
                            Last edited by muhammadwahaj; 02-12-15, 05:38 PM.
                            Nasheeds By Al-Munshid Muhammad Al-Wahaj


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                            • #15
                              Re: LIGHT at the end of the tunnel '' Barelvi - Deoband '' on common terms, possible

                              [MENTION=100003]muhammadwahaj[/MENTION]

                              Jazakallah for your encouraging words but still we have to learn a lot.

                              I never attack anyone on simple matters as that or anything in fiqh of prayers etc untill there is DOP in things like Kufar , Shirk or Haram Halal etc and I always, mostly say so called wahhabis because that's a wrong term we know .

                              Getting late inshallah i will be taking a break for few days from tomorrow. kindly manage this thread bro . and the same to other brothers for the sake of Allah swt , wasalam.
                              Last edited by talibilm09; 02-12-15, 05:49 PM.
                              My sect - No Sect

                              My Aqeedah - http://legacy.quran.com/112 ( The Aqeedah of Sahabas)

                              Just a Muslim

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