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The act of Matam on Ashura

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  • #31
    Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

    RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam prohibited the acts of matam done in times of Jahiliya. That is to slap the cheeks and tear the clothes etc
    But before you run off with this thought and call it an act of jahiliya, RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam also allowed one sahabi to mourn in this manner.
    So although it remains forbidden, do not go to excess in disparaging the shia for it.


    Btw: it was earlier mentioned that shias have narrations from animals but it should be known so do we. Shia narrations are usually rip offs of sunni narrations. So the one after looking at shia narrations rejects narrations from animals and other creation such as trees, rocks and moutains will find himself in no mans land. Neither shia nor sunni

    The shia fabrication (copy of sunni narrations) show clear excess, where as the sunni narrations are subtle and beautiful. What the shia have done here with these narrations has elements of protest and an element of attempt to recreate the islamic religion using concept/sunni narrations as templates
    Last edited by As-salah; 04-11-14, 12:06 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

      Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
      It is a very dark chapter in Islamic history that so called Muslims shed the blessed blood of the household of the Prophet :saw: , but what happened to Uthman Radhi-yallaahu 'anhu & the fall out of it did greater harm to the Ummah
      Salam Alaikum

      You have said it is a dark chapter in Islamic History - that we can agree on

      You have said it was the blessed blood of the Household that was shed - again that is agreed that is true to an extent - its an understatement, I'll add this was the blessed blood of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam - tell me if you agree
      This is how the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam looked at it, and this is how Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala looks at it

      Here a part of The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was martyred by zalimoon

      As for the harm to the Ummah an argument for the loss of every important personality can be made. it is also said about the Martyrdom of Umar Alaihis Salam that it was the opening to fitna. Yet Umar RadiAllahu anhu was martyred by a non Muslim, and that was sufficient for Umar RadiAllahu Anhu to be pleased, and it is sufficient for us to accept.
      Uthman Alaihis Salam was martyred and the fitna was zahir upon us after His martyredom. That is true. The narrations state Uthman RadiAllahu anhu was receiving drinks of water from RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam prior to martyrdom, there is an element of comfort in this. And indeed RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was not distraught on this incident. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr RadiAllahu Anhu was still accepted by many of the Sahaba

      However during the incident of karbala there is no worldly comfort for us. It was a small family versus a huge merciless army. Everyone who took part against Imam Hussain Radiallahu Anhu is a murtad, even it has come in narrations that the old man who accompanied the oppressors [made their numbers look bigger, without intending to join them in battle] was blinded by RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam went to His companions and other family and cried with them over this incident. It is you can say Sunnah to mourn this martyrdom

      So I would say you are thinking the martyrdom of Uthman Radiallahu anhu was an opening to the fitna, it was, but that had actually been breached earlier. However what transpired at Karbala was the worst incident in islamic history, it is an incident where so called muslims killed a part of Prophethood
      Last edited by As-salah; 04-11-14, 01:02 PM.

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      • #33
        Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

        I don't disagree with what you said, except for saying those that took part against him are murtard.
        Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

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        • #34
          Originally posted by As-salah View Post
          Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
          It is a very dark chapter in Islamic history that so called Muslims shed the blessed blood of the household of the Prophet :saw: , but what happened to Uthman Radhi-yallaahu 'anhu & the fall out of it did greater harm to the Ummah
          Salam Alaikum

          You have said it is a dark chapter in Islamic History - that we can agree on

          You have said it was the blessed blood of the Household that was shed - again that is agreed that is true to an extent - its an understatement, I'll add this was the blessed blood of the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam - tell me if you agree
          This is how the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam looked at it, and this is how Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala looks at it

          Here a part of The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was martyred by zalimoon

          As for the harm to the Ummah an argument for the loss of every important personality. it is also said about the Martyrdom of Umar Alaihis Salam that it was the opening to fitna. Yet Umar RadiAllahu anhu was martyred by a non Muslim, and that was sufficient for Umar RadiAllahu Anhu to be pleased, and it is sufficient for us to accept.
          Uthman Alaihis Salam was martyred and the fitna was zahir upon us after His martyredom. That is true. The narrations state Uthman RadiAllahu anhu was receiving drinks of water from RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam prior to martyrdom, there is an element of comfort in this. And indeed RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam was not distraught on this incident. Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was still accepted by many of the Sahaba

          However during the incident of karbala there is worldly comfort for us. It was a small family versus a huge merciless army. Everyone who took part against Imam Hussain Radiallahu Anhu is a murtad, even it has come in narrations that the old man who accompanied the oppressors [made their numbers look bigger, without intending to join them in battle] was blinded by RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam. RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam went to His companions and other family and cried with them over this incident. It is you can say Sunnah to mourn this martyrdom

          So I would say you are thinking the martyrdom of Uthman Radiallahu anhu was an opening to the fitna, it was, but that had actually been breached earlier. However what transpired at Karbala was the worst incident in islamic history, it is an incident where so called muslims killed a part of Prophethood

          I don't get it. How could Rasullah (SAL) react to incidents that occurred after his death? He is alive, I know, but there are narrations which indicate that he (sal) is not aware of what people do after his death???

          Edit: yes, sorry, now I understand. Rasullah (sal) was sad when Allah revealed that his grandson would be martyred.
          Last edited by Jihaaaaaaad; 04-11-14, 01:15 PM.

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          • #35
            Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

            Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
            I don't disagree with what you said, except for saying those that took part against him are murtard.
            JazakAllah
            May Allah make the love of the Rasool (which comes with His Aal) zahir upon you more

            The religion i walk around with makes them the worst murtads ever. What is your reasoning for them not being murtad, kafirs? It is commonly known about yazid that if he had ordered his men to kill Hussain RadiAllahu Anhu his being a kafir would be complete and utterly accomplished

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            • #36
              Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

              Originally posted by As-salah View Post
              So I would say you are thinking the martyrdom of Uthman Radiallahu anhu was an opening to the fitna, it was, but that had actually been breached earlier. However what transpired at Karbala was the worst incident in islamic history, it is an incident where so called muslims killed a part of Prophethood
              all this talk to justify your point but still you do not make a strong case......

              you should know that majority of the sahabah, very senior ones also opposed Hussain's mission to go to Karbala, they tried their best to stop him and warn him, and majority of scholars agrees that Hussain made a mistake going against the opinion of the Sahabah. His death was tragic no doubt but to make it seem as the biggest tragedy in Islamic history is incorrect, if it was then we would definitely have a Prophetic tradition alluding to it but there is none, in fact there is a narration about Hassan that he will unite the ummah, which he did, and this very incident is the reason many Shias do not like him and forget he is also "part" of the Prophet :saw: and was killed as well.
              "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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              • #37
                Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                Originally posted by Jihaaaaaaad View Post
                I don't get it. How could Rasullah (SAL) react to incidents that occurred after his death? He is alive, I know, but there are narrations which indicate that he (sal) is not aware of what people do after his death???
                Salam Alaikum

                RasoolAllah Sallallahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam knew intimately these incidents before He left the zahiri world. He SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is shown our deeds by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala, and is able to go where he likes in the Kingdom of Allah. It is said Imam Suyyuti had 70+ visits from RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam and the visits of RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam in peoples dreams are proven in the sunnah and by the witnesses uncountable number of times.
                The narrations which show RasoolAllah Sallallahu alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam is unaware are a throw back to those who are munafiqs (meaning Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has denied them relationship and dua of RasoolAllah Sallallahu alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam because they only pretended to be muslims.
                The narrations show us RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Ahlihi wa Sallam narrated everything that would happen [explicitly mentioned in hadith], and the companions had knowledge of even any bird that flapped its wings!

                It should be remembered the narrations on the believer seeing with the Light of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala are for awliya (and we can not undervalue what they can see) then just apply how much of Allahs Light RasoolAllah SallAllahu Alaihi wa Sallam can see with.
                Last edited by As-salah; 04-11-14, 01:33 PM.

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                • #38
                  Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                  Originally posted by tayyiboon View Post
                  all this talk to justify your point but still you do not make a strong case......

                  you should know that majority of the sahabah, very senior ones also opposed Hussain's mission to go to Karbala, they tried their best to stop him and warn him, and majority of scholars agrees that Hussain made a mistake going against the opinion of the Sahabah. His death was tragic no doubt but to make it seem as the biggest tragedy in Islamic history is incorrect, if it was then we would definitely have a Prophetic tradition alluding to it but there is none, in fact there is a narration about Hassan that he will unite the ummah, which he did, and this very incident is the reason many Shias do not like him and forget he is also "part" of the Prophet :saw: and was killed as well.
                  erm..
                  this is a modern anti shia (possibly nawasib) influenced take on the incidents

                  Imam Hussain Alaihis Sallam is not criticized for going by Muslims. He was asked not to go because the Companions did not want to lose Him. However Imam Hussain Alaihis Salam is one of the purified so He Alaihis Salam is not in need of any other companions advice. He Alaihis Salam knew what is Haq and what is right for him to do, when people are calling him

                  There is nothing wrong in Shahadat (it is a Blessing), it is the zalimoon who attacked Him that make this incident

                  and He Alaihis Salam is Leader (Sardar) of the people of Jannah for, among other things, his decision to go. SubhanAllah
                  Last edited by As-salah; 04-11-14, 01:56 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                    Originally posted by Mikha’eel View Post
                    The sahaba were in no doubts as to who were to blame for the death of Hussain Radhi-yallaahu 'anhu, and it was those cowardly treacherous betrayers of Kufa who promised him bayah and then abandoned him & the household of the Prophet :saw: to their fate, the same people who did nothing but give Ali Radhi-yallaahu 'anhu grief as well while he was in charge over them
                    This

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                    • #40
                      Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                      Originally posted by As-salah View Post

                      and He Alaihis Salam is Leader (Sardar) of the youth of Jannah for, among other things, his decision to go. SubhanAllah
                      Made a correction in that statement, Al-Hasan & Hussain Radhi-yallaahu 'anhumaa are the leaders of the youth of Jannah.
                      Allah is always watching [VIDEO]

                      How To Weep For The Fear Of Allah

                      Please remember to share these links with people you know so they can also benefit from them. :jkk:

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                      • #41
                        Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                        Originally posted by tayyiboon View Post
                        not at all.......

                        martydom of Umar/Uthman/Ali were more painful and especially the way Uthman may Allah be pleased with him was killed.......
                        Any Martyrdom is tough , no doubt.

                        But the circumstances are different.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                          shia's are deviants and whatever crazy stuff they do like matam is wrong and thats all u really need to know

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                          • #43
                            Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                            Originally posted by As-salah View Post

                            and He Alaihis Salam is Leader (Sardar) of the people of Jannah for, among other things, his decision to go. SubhanAllah
                            Same with Hassan Alaihi Assalam, why not talk about him? In fact his decision to unite the Ummah and sacrifice his own status is a bigger more virtuous deed and he was a shaheed also as he did not die a natural death. Let us see you people talk about him!!!!!!!!! as if Hussain Alaihi Assalam was the only grandson of the Prophet :saw:!!!!!!!!!
                            "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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                            • #44
                              Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                              ^^as if he is the only grandchild, not just grandson. There is never any mention of the daughter of Ali RA marrying Umar RA either, or any other child. They also seem to accept only Ali RA, Hussain RA, Fatima RA as family members, as they never remember Hamza RA or, as you said, Hassan RA.
                              How strange; they claim to love Rasul Allah SAW, but doubt and hate his wives, and don't even consider them his family! Imagine someone coming to you and telling you he loves you, but then swearing at your wife in the same breath!
                              Last edited by Foodadad; 05-11-14, 08:03 AM.

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                              • #45
                                Re: The act of Matam on Ashura

                                Originally posted by Foodadad View Post
                                ^^as if he is the only grandchild, not just grandson. There is never any mention of the daughter of Ali RA marrying Umar RA either, or any other child. They also seem to accept only Ali RA, Hussain RA, Fatima RA as family members, as they never remember Hamza RA or, as you said, Hussein RA.
                                How strange; they claim to love Rasul Allah SAW, but doubt and hate his wives, and don't even consider them his family! Imagine someone coming to you and telling you he loves you, but then swearing at your wife in the same breath!
                                exactly this is where it gets confusing, especially with their indifference towards Hassan Radiya Allahu Anhu, how they totally ignore him as if he is nothing but only love to talk about Hussain Radiya Allahu Anhu, weren't they brothers? what happened to the so called love for Ahl-e-Bait???!!!
                                "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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