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How can we tackle these people?

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  • #16
    Re: How can we tackle these people?

    Originally posted by MuslimBrother' View Post
    I had the same question for the pir. He said it is Sunni Islam what he is conducting. He also conducts tomb worship, is friends with Narendra Modi (who conducted the Gujarat Riots and resulted in many of out brothers kill and sisters raped) and encourages Hindus and Muslims to be "like brothers"
    Aouthubillah. I haven't even watched the video but seeing Modi's name and that pir mentioned in the same sentence is enough for me to just completely give up on the guy.

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    • #17
      Re: How can we tackle these people?

      99.9% of today's Sufism is essentially tainted with shirk and bid'ah. Classical Sufism is nothing more than what you find in Islam, asceticism in the boundaries of Shari'ah, selflessness, love of Islam and hate of kufr, helping the poor and fearing Allah (s.w.t). Sufism does not have to mean the nonsense you find in mystic orders or individuals who demonstrate useless feats of stupidity and needless excess (such as meditation over a huge period, not eating anything at all for weeks, going out into the wild, wearing no clothes such as the faqirs) or falling into other acts of kufr such as intercession through the dead and turning places of Awliya (r.h) into tombs/mausoleums to be visited like a pilgrimage site.

      The other real problem is that Sufi's tend to have a serious problem in Aqeedah in general. Sometimes, I can go off in a tangent as if Sufism was another school of thought in theology (kind of like the Ash'ari and Maturidi schools of batil). Most Sufi's are Ash'ari or Maturidi (Subcontinent Deobandi's/Barelvi's).

      Sufism is not what it used to be and pursuing it in this day and age is just pointless. Besides, Sufism is no more than purifying oneself in the physical, spiritual and mental faculty. This does not require any specific weird action, but dhikr of Allah (s.w.t) as the Messenger (s.a.w) and the Sahaba (r.a) used to do it. Pursue the knowledge and you shall find it in you to understand it. Insha'Allah
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      • #18
        Re: How can we tackle these people?

        Originally posted by MuslimBrother' View Post
        99.9% of today's Sufism is essentially tainted with shirk and bid'ah.
        a big statement....

        you are telling me all of the sufis such as yunus patel, zulfiqar, hamza yusuf, abdul hakim murad, faruq abd-Allah, faraz rabbani, muhammad akhtar, ibrahim osi efa are deviant?
        "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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        • #19
          Re: How can we tackle these people?

          Can someone explain whats the difference between asharis/maturidis/salafi. I know it has something to do with aqeedah but I don't know any of the specifics. I don't follow any particular school of thought because I can only do my bare bones basic as a Muslim right now. For aqeedah I believe there is one Go..

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          • #20
            Re: How can we tackle these people?

            Originally posted by tayyiboon View Post
            a big statement....

            you are telling me all of the sufis such as yunus patel, zulfiqar, hamza yusuf, abdul hakim murad, faruq abd-Allah, faraz rabbani, muhammad akhtar, ibrahim osi efa are deviant?
            You certain you want to put the white house imam in there?



            "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


            Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.


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            • #21
              Re: How can we tackle these people?

              Originally posted by Uthmani View Post
              Can someone explain whats the difference between asharis/maturidis/salafi. I know it has something to do with aqeedah but I don't know any of the specifics. I don't follow any particular school of thought because I can only do my bare bones basic as a Muslim right now. For aqeedah I believe there is one Go..
              It's better to not get bogged down in unnecessary arguments.



              "The `Aalim knows who is a Jaahil, because he used to be a Jaahil before. But the Jaahil does not know who is an `Aalim, because he was never an `Aalim before."


              Imaam Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullaah in Majmoo`ul Fataawaa.


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              • #22
                Re: How can we tackle these people?

                Originally posted by Abu Mus'ab View Post
                You certain you want to put the white house imam in there?
                regardless, my point was all of those cannot be deviant, we might have some difference with them but i believe they are from ahlu sunnah wal jama'ah
                "Be A Lamp, A Lifeboat, A Ladder, Help Someone's Soul Heal. Walk Out Of Your House Like A Shepherd" - Rumi

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                • #23
                  Re: How can we tackle these people?

                  Originally posted by Uthmani View Post
                  Can someone explain whats the difference between asharis/maturidis/salafi. I know it has something to do with aqeedah but I don't know any of the specifics. I don't follow any particular school of thought because I can only do my bare bones basic as a Muslim right now. For aqeedah I believe there is one Go..
                  Both My Hands". This entails that Allah (s.w.t) said about Himself that He has Hands. As to how these Hands are is not for us to delve in as it suits His Majesty. Other than what we have been informed with, nobody can say any more or any less than that. Thus, whatever Allah (s.w.t) says about Himself, is to be accepted without negation.

                  Ash'aris and Maturidi's essentially ended up explaining Aqeedah through the philosophical schools they inherited from their former selves, the Mu'tazila. Ash'arism is too difficult to define in and of itself as Ash'ari's themselves have shifted and changed from time. Imam Abu'l Hasan Ash'ari (r.h) before adopting the Aqeedah of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (r.a), The Imam of Ahlus Sunnah, went on to adopt certain aspects of what Imam Kulaab taught. Thus he had some views that differed from the Mu'tazila but not completely in line with Ahmad ibn Hanbal (r.a) until he accepted it after going to Baghdad. His book, al-Ibaanah (which modern day Jahmi Ash'ari's deny is true and claim is fabricated) is testimony to his acceptance of the Athari aqeedah. Nonetheless, people claim to follow his old views. The general hype of Ash'aris is that they try to bridge reason and revelation, the term reason indicating philosophical goggles to see Islam through.

                  Thus, a lot of heresy can emerge out of this. Many of today's "Ash'ari's and Maturidi's" are actually Jahmi's, who deny the way Allah (s.w.t) has described himself , stating that it is anthropomorphism likening Allah (s.w.t) with creation. This comes out of many philosophical garbage (atomism, composition, existence is subject to these) etc.

                  It is so long to explain this whole thing, the best thing is this. Read Imam Tahawi's Aqeedah manual and then read Ibn Abi Al Izz's explanation of it. The best thing you can do :)
                  Last edited by MuslimBrother'; 07-05-13, 02:16 PM.
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                  • #24
                    Re: How can we tackle these people?

                    The hand thing just seems completely unnecessary to me. I don't think Allah revealed that verse so we may discuss about if he has hands or not.

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                    • #25
                      Re: How can we tackle these people?

                      Originally posted by Uthmani View Post
                      The hand thing just seems completely unnecessary to me. I don't think Allah revealed that verse so we may discuss about if he has hands or not.
                      Lol, the point I'm trying to make is that the Salaf took it as it came, without falling into negation. You'd be surprised, some people today say that "Hands" is it be interpreted as "power" and if it isn't, your a kaffir.
                      Leader of the Anti-Barelvi Initiative: Join Today!

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                      • #26
                        Re: How can we tackle these people?

                        Originally posted by MuslimBrother' View Post
                        Lol, the point I'm trying to make is that the Salaf took it as it came, without falling into negation. You'd be surprised, some people today say that "Hands" is it be interpreted as "power" and if it isn't, your a kaffir.
                        Is there any madhab who says that we should not interpret it as Allah swt having a hand?

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                        • #27
                          Re: How can we tackle these people?

                          Originally posted by Hadid View Post
                          Is there any madhab who says that we should not interpret it as Allah swt having a hand?
                          Do you mean madhab as in the Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali madhabs?

                          If so, then some Imams in the Hanafi/Shafi'i/Maliki madhab were Ash'aris themselves but not Jahmi's. They had issues of doubt in certain things but that does not go to far as completely negating Allah (s.w.t) as some Ash'ari/Maturidi's (who are Jahmi in actuality) do today. Thus, the answer to your question is no.

                          No madhab says this as the madhahib are part of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah and the majority of its Imams did not differ on major issues in creed.
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                          • #28
                            Re: How can we tackle these people?

                            It's always very dangerous when talking about these topics, it's like opening up all your defences to Shaytan.

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                            • #29
                              Re: How can we tackle these people?

                              Originally posted by MuslimBrother' View Post
                              Do you mean madhab as in the Hanafi, Shafi'i, Maliki and Hanbali madhabs?

                              If so, then some Imams in the Hanafi/Shafi'i/Maliki madhab were Ash'aris themselves but not Jahmi's. They had issues of doubt in certain things but that does not go to far as completely negating Allah (s.w.t) as some Ash'ari/Maturidi's (who are Jahmi in actuality) do today. Thus, the answer to your question is no.

                              No madhab says this as the madhahib are part of Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jamah and the majority of its Imams did not differ on major issues in creed.
                              ok :jkk:

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                              • #30
                                Re: How can we tackle these people?

                                Originally posted by Uthmani View Post
                                It's always very dangerous when talking about these topics, it's like opening up all your defences to Shaytan.
                                Aqeedah should ONLY BE TAKEN FROM CLASSICAL sources. Here are some links:

                                Aqeedah Tahawiyyah
                                Sharh Aqeedah Tahawiyyah by Imam Ibn Abi Al Izz Al Hanafi
                                Leader of the Anti-Barelvi Initiative: Join Today!

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