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Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

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    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

    Originally posted by ahaneefah View Post
    Put your logic to one side.

    Do you understand Arabic?
    Akhi, if someone says "There are three gods" (astagfirullah) and then you start explaining how there can be only one God, they tell you "Put your logic to one side. If you don't understand my language then you cannot argue with me." then you are going to ignore them right?

    I'm not going to ignore you lol but I'm just pointing out that your argument isn't standing in light of Islam or logic or anything.

    Brother, Islam doesn't go against logic and reason. You cannot bend the map and make Iraq east of Medina. The scholars cannot do so either. If Allah willed, Allah could, subhanallah, but Allah (SWT) has not made Iraq east of Medinah according to the maps that everyone in the world follows.

    Look at any map, pick any map you want, I don't care which map, and just show me where Iraq appears East of Medinah.

    On the maps I've looked at, directly East of Medinah is Riyadh.

    Since I don't speak Arabic, can you tell me what the hadith says in Arabic? Does it say that Muhammad(saws) pointed East? If it does, then you can never convince any logical human that he was pointing to Iraq unless his location was far north of Medinah at the time. Where was he when he pointed East? What was his location? (Note: He would have had to of been over 600 Kilometers north of Medinah in order for Iraq to be to his East.)

    Originally posted by ahaneefah View Post
    Is there an Ijma' that Najd refers to Ibn Abdul Wahhab? Do you even understand Arabic?

    The word najd in Arabic refers to a “highland, plateau”.
    "Imaam Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab"

    "Imam Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was a great man, an outstanding reformer and a zealous preacher, who appeared in the Arabian Peninsula in the twelfth century A.H. He was educated by his father in his homeland, Oyayna, a village located at Yamama in Najd, northwest to the city of Riyadh." - source: http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?...icle&artid=180

    "Muhammad ibn 'Abd Al-Wahhab ibn Sulayman ibn 'Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Rashid al-Tamimi[1] (1703–1792) (Arabic: محمد بن عبد الوهاب التميمي‎) was an Islamic scholar born in Najd, in present-day Saudi Arabia."
    Last edited by AlayhisSalaam; 01-03-10, 04:22 PM.
    http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
    O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

    Comment


      Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

      the great imam ibn hjar asqalini who wrote the explanation of sahih bukhari, imam nawawi who wrote the explanation of sahih muslim.
      their books are studied everywhere in the world and their books are basically what use today to understand much of what is considered hadeeth.
      its frustrating to those who are students of knowledge to hear people act as this op is acting.

      how does a docter feel when a A-level students and tells him that he knows better, its condecending to say the least.
      he admits to being ignorant and them when proofs are given to him due to his ill understanding of whom classical scholars even giants like ibn hajar that should be household names like bukhari and the abu haneefa.

      so i apoligize if i come across as angry because i am and its very frustrating seeing this muslim confuse himself by enganging in all this partisanship

      Comment


        Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

        Originally posted by hamza89 View Post
        the great imam ibn hjar asqalini who wrote the explanation of sahih bukhari, imam nawawi who wrote the explanation of sahih muslim.
        their books are studied everywhere in the world and their books are basically what use today to understand much of what is considered hadeeth.
        its frustrating to those who are students of knowledge to hear people act as this op is acting.

        how does a docter feel when a A-level students and tells him that he knows better, its condecending to say the least.
        he admits to being ignorant and them when proofs are given to him due to his ill understanding of whom classical scholars even giants like ibn hajar that should be household names like bukhari and the abu haneefa.

        so i apoligize if i come across as angry because i am and its very frustrating seeing this muslim confuse himself by enganging in all this partisanship
        Please refer to post #106, directly above your post which I've quoted just now, in order to see the reason why I am arguing my case. I'm not rejecting evidence, I'm rejecting what I perceive to be illogical.

        To illustrate this hikmah of knowledge without Hikmah of action, a brother once completed the Salah in a local Masjid and then proceeded to shake hands with the people on his right and left. The brother to his immediate right slapped his hand and snapped, "That is not part of the Sunnah!" The man replied most correctly, "Oh, is disrespect and insult part of the Sunnah?"

        Well brother? Is it? Salaam

        Originally posted by hamza89
        he admits to being ignorant
        Inshallah maybe we should all admit to being ignorant, and humble ourselves, because I'm sorry to tell you but none of your scholars are flawless, they are not infallible.
        http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
        O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

        Comment


          Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

          May Allah guide us and forgive us for our anger and guide us to good manners amin
          Last edited by IDK; 01-03-10, 04:36 PM.
          " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
          Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

          Comment


            Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

            Your arguement is one that is to do with geography and not religion, My advice to you is as follows ,
            1)memorize the quran
            2)study Arabic and basic fiqh
            3)continue your studies in fiqh and study the hadeeth and its sciences
            4)specialise in a field.


            if you have not yet acomplished the first three steps then you are brother in no place to discuss as it will only confuse you. Do not associate yourself with a group. put all pre-judgements to one side.
            and study and come to a conclusion when you have knowledge now we are only persuading you . its more befitting that you are pesuaded by the knowledge you have obtained.
            that is what i advice you inshalah .

            you will forever remain in doubt and the remover of doubt allah by blessing people with knowledge without it you are a sheep amongst wolves.
            each group is a wolf and they all want your flesh. gain knowledge and protect yourself

            Comment


              Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

              Originally posted by hamza89 View Post
              Your arguement is one that is to do with geography and not religion, My advice to you is as follows ,
              1)memorize the quran
              2)study Arabic and basic fiqh
              3)continue your studies in fiqh and study the hadeeth and its sciences
              4)specialise in a field.


              if you have not yet acomplished the first three steps then you are brother in no place to discuss as it will only confuse you. Do not associate yourself with a group. put all pre-judgements to one side.
              and study and come to a conclusion when you have knowledge now we are only persuading you . its more befitting that you are pesuaded by the knowledge you have obtained.
              that is what i advice you inshalah .

              you will forever remain in doubt and the remover of doubt allah by blessing people with knowledge without it you are a sheep amongst wolves.
              each group is a wolf and they all want your flesh. gain knowledge and protect yourself
              Jazakallah khayr for your advice and kind words.

              Inshallah and ameen, may Allah SWT remove our doubts and replace our ignorance with fiqh.

              However, Islam does not go against logic and reason. I'm sorry but if a scholar says "The world is 5 years old and square" then we are not going to accept this. Likewise, when a scholar tries to bend the hadith of Muhammad(saws) astagfirullah which is pointing to the East, and make him point North, then he is in the wrong. Muhammad(saws) pointed east as I said and if he were not over 600 Kilometers North of Medinah at the time of pointing East, then he could not have possibly been pointing at Iraq. You cannot bend the truth for your own desire brother, this is unIslamic.

              I've quoted sources which refer to Najd as modern day Saudi and Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi was born in Najd and hence the suffix to his name Najdi.
              http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
              O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

              Comment


                Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                Originally posted by IDK View Post
                I am really disgusted. The OP has told us that he has been a muslim for a month or two and you lot choose to drive him away this way

                Shame on you and you should all go repent

                so if you are a "student of knowledge" are you ebtter than the new muslim? The wise doctor does not look down on A-level student but teaches him well

                the proof you presented was not in a good manner for two reasons, let aside the reason of rudeness, but take the reason in the way you presented the proof?

                I personally dont know who that imam is, perhaps if you tried to present proof from begining, without prior assumptions, say for example something along the lines of "the imam ibn hajar is a great scholar etc etc accepted by many and authentic etc etc, this scholar has shown such and such, also this other scholar who is this and this, has shown this..." does that make sense?

                that would convince me more

                JazakAllah may Allah forgive us for our anger and guide us to the truth amin and to good manners
                Disgusting is the behaviour shown that reflects jahl, if we are ignorant we do not cppy and paste fatwas. if we are ignorant we do not assume we know it all .
                who ever said that a born muslim is better than a convert. this is about how to deal with ignorance that is by learning. Brother ahaneef has given him refrences it now upon him to stop arguing and start looking for the evidences .
                A new muslim should not busy himself or herself with groups it does not benefit them.
                teaching someone requires a clean sheet its hard to teach someone pre-concieved opinions. have you ever tried teaching someone is from the start talks about wahabism and this and that as if .

                what happened studying the seerah memorizing the quran taking the steps to learn the deen.

                reflect on the course of action this muslim has taken a muslim for a months or 2 and were discussing wahabism with him or her . i think my advice was concise to him he busy himeself with studying this deen

                Comment


                  Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                  Originally posted by IDK View Post
                  ok I have been a muslim for 7 years and I dont know who Imam ibn Hajar is and why is he important. Can you please explain who he is and why he is more authentic or important, why we can take his word etc
                  Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani was a traditionist scholar (muhaddith) from Egypt who lived in the 8-9th century of the Hijri calendar (d. 852AH). His magnum opus was his explanation of Imam al-Bukhari's al-Jami as-Sahih (commonly referred to as Sahih al-Bukhari), titled Fath al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari. He's also known for many of his other hadith works, including Bulugh al-Maram and some books on Hadith terminology, such as Nukhbah al-Fikr and an-Nukat 'ala Kitab Ibn as-Salah. He's also got a number of works on narrators of hadith, such as Tahdhib at-Tahdhib, Lisan al-Mizan, and al-Isabah fi Tamyiz as-Sahabah.

                  His works are heavily relied upon by many Muslim scholars, especially those involved in the science of Hadith.
                  The entirety of faith is deed Imam Muhammad bin Ism'l al-Bukhr, al-Jmi' as-Sahh , Kitb al-mn.

                  My Blog

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                    Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                    Originally posted by hamza89 View Post
                    Disgusting is the behaviour shown that reflects jahl, if we are ignorant we do not cppy and paste fatwas. if we are ignorant we do not assume we know it all .
                    who ever said that a born muslim is better than a convert. this is about how to deal with ignorance that is by learning. Brother ahaneef has given him refrences it now upon him to stop arguing and start looking for the evidences .
                    A new muslim should not busy himself or herself with groups it does not benefit them.
                    teaching someone requires a clean sheet its hard to teach someone pre-concieved opinions. have you ever tried teaching someone is from the start talks about wahabism and this and that as if .

                    what happened studying the seerah memorizing the quran taking the steps to learn the deen.

                    reflect on the course of action this muslim has taken a muslim for a months or 2 and were discussing wahabism with him or her . i think my advice was concise to him he busy himeself with studying this deen
                    I deleted the post
                    Last edited by IDK; 01-03-10, 04:46 PM.
                    " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
                    Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

                    Comment


                      Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                      Originally posted by hamza89 View Post
                      Disgusting is the behaviour shown that reflects jahl, if we are ignorant we do not cppy and paste fatwas. if we are ignorant we do not assume we know it all .
                      who ever said that a born muslim is better than a convert. this is about how to deal with ignorance that is by learning. Brother ahaneef has given him refrences it now upon him to stop arguing and start looking for the evidences .
                      A new muslim should not busy himself or herself with groups it does not benefit them.
                      teaching someone requires a clean sheet its hard to teach someone pre-concieved opinions. have you ever tried teaching someone is from the start talks about wahabism and this and that as if .

                      what happened studying the seerah memorizing the quran taking the steps to learn the deen.

                      reflect on the course of action this muslim has taken a muslim for a months or 2 and were discussing wahabism with him or her . i think my advice was concise to him he busy himeself with studying this deen
                      I am ignorant and I admitted that I'm ignorant. I never claimed to know it all. I quoted hadith, qur'an, and scholars. I have used pictures to illustrate my point, and I have asked peacefully for some logical arguments.


                      You say "if we are ignorant we do not assume we know it all"

                      But the truth is, if you are as knowledgeable as you claim to be, then you should know better than to claim that you know everything.

                      As ignorant as I am, I know better than to claim that I know everything, and I have openly admitted that I know nothing. You should know better than I do, but you don't.
                      http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                      O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                      Comment


                        Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                        Originally posted by aboo ishaaq View Post
                        Ibn Hajar al-'Asqalani was a traditionist scholar (muhaddith) from Egypt who lived in the 8-9th century of the Hijri calendar (d. 852AH). His magnum opus was his explanation of Imam al-Bukhari's al-Jami as-Sahih (commonly referred to as Sahih al-Bukhari), titled Fath al-Bari fi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari. He's also known for many of his other hadith works, including Bulugh al-Maram and some books on Hadith terminology, such as Nukhbah al-Fikr and an-Nukat 'ala Kitab Ibn as-Salah. He's also got a number of works on narrators of hadith, such as Tahdhib at-Tahdhib, Lisan al-Mizan, and al-Isabah fi Tamyiz as-Sahabah.

                        His works are heavily relied upon by many Muslim scholars, especially those involved in the science of Hadith.
                        ok JazakAllah
                        " O you who have believed, do not follow the footsteps of Satan. And whoever follows the footsteps of Satan - indeed, he enjoins immorality and wrongdoing. And if not for the favor of Allah upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have been pure, ever, but Allah purifies whom He wills, and Allah is Hearing and Knowing. "
                        Surah An-Nur, Verse 21

                        Comment


                          Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                          Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                          Jazakallah khayr for your advice and kind words.

                          Inshallah and ameen, may Allah SWT remove our doubts and replace our ignorance with fiqh.

                          However, Islam does not go against logic and reason. I'm sorry but if a scholar says "The world is 5 years old and square" then we are not going to accept this. Likewise, when a scholar tries to bend the hadith of Muhammad(saws) astagfirullah which is pointing to the East, and make him point North, then he is in the wrong. Muhammad(saws) pointed east as I said and if he were not over 600 Kilometers North of Medinah at the time of pointing East, then he could not have possibly been pointing at Iraq. You cannot bend the truth for your own desire brother, this is unIslamic.

                          I've quoted sources which refer to Najd as modern day Saudi and Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab Najdi was born in Najd and hence the suffix to his name Najdi.
                          Brother i advice on seeking knowledge first and foremost and that is my parting advice to you as this thread will not benefit me.
                          as you are a new muslim i will let you know that respecting the scholars that have given us the illustrious explantion of hadeeth and islam in generel is not an option but incumabnt upon all muslims.
                          so brother go through the stages of learnign this religion i am more than happy to direct to good institiutoins that offer accomadaton and other places that are more traditional if your intention truly is to study this deen.
                          as for further debate than my stance is clear i follow the opinion of previous scholars on this issue and so i cannot and refuse to deny the religoius calliber of these imams and their statement so i cannot agree with you

                          Comment


                            Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                            Originally posted by AlayhisSalaam View Post
                            I am ignorant and I admitted that I'm ignorant. I never claimed to know it all. I quoted hadith, qur'an, and scholars. I have used pictures to illustrate my point, and I have asked peacefully for some logical arguments.


                            You say "if we are ignorant we do not assume we know it all"

                            But the truth is, if you are as knowledgeable as you claim to be, then you should know better than to claim that you know everything.

                            As ignorant as I am, I know better than to claim that I know everything, and I have openly admitted that I know nothing. You should know better than I do, but you don't.
                            Brother i have never claimed that i know it all , to be honest i don't need to respond to this thread anymore you've been shown the ropes.

                            get on with seeking knowledge partsanship will not get you anywhere

                            Comment


                              Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                              Originally posted by hamza89 View Post
                              Brother i advice on seeking knowledge first and foremost and that is my parting advice to you as this thread will not benefit me.
                              as you are a new muslim i will let you know that respecting the scholars that have given us the illustrious explantion of hadeeth and islam in generel is not an option but incumabnt upon all muslims.
                              so brother go through the stages of learnign this religion i am more than happy to direct to good institiutoins that offer accomadaton and other places that are more traditional if your intention truly is to study this deen.
                              as for further debate than my stance is clear i follow the opinion of previous scholars on this issue and so i cannot and refuse to deny the religoius calliber of these imams and their statement so i cannot agree with you
                              Thanks, I am serious about studying the deen and if it weren't for my situation at the moment I would be studying right now. But I am having to delay my official studies for the time being. I am not some random person who likes Islam, I am a devoted Muslim inshallah who has offered up my entire life, death, and fate to Allah (SWT) and His revelation.

                              For anyone else who says that Najd is in Iraq, just read the following:


                              Look at any map, pick any map you want, I don't care which map, and just show me where Iraq appears East of Medinah.

                              On the maps I've looked at, directly East of Medinah is Riyadh.

                              Since I don't speak Arabic, can you tell me what the hadith says in Arabic? Does it say that Muhammad(saws) pointed East? If it does, then you can never convince any logical human that he was pointing to Iraq unless his location was far north of Medinah at the time. Where was he when he pointed East? What was his location? (Note: He would have had to of been over 600 Kilometers north of Medinah in order for Iraq to be to his East.)

                              "Imam Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahhab was a great man, an outstanding reformer and a zealous preacher, who appeared in the Arabian Peninsula in the twelfth century A.H. He was educated by his father in his homeland, Oyayna, a village located at Yamama in Najd, northwest to the city of Riyadh." - source: http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?...icle&artid=180

                              "Muhammad ibn 'Abd Al-Wahhab ibn Sulayman ibn 'Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn Rashid al-Tamimi[1] (1703–1792) (Arabic: محمد بن عبد الوهاب التميمي‎) was an Islamic scholar born in Najd, in present-day Saudi Arabia."


                              As I said, scholars and imams are not infallible, they are only humans. If one of your beloved Imams told you that the earth is flat, would you believe him? I don't believe that Najd is in Iraq because of what I have just mentioned with the geography and logic. So unless you can tell me something logical that the hadiths are indeed referring to Iraq then we must conclude that the hadiths are referring to the region of Saudi Arabia which encompasses the area of Riyadh...

                              I do not argue so that I can be right, I only discuss from a logical standpoint what I have perceived to be the most accurate truth, and I never argue something unless I have found other scholars agree with my view, because if I'm the only one with my view then I obviously must be mistaken about something, in which case I would stay quiet and do some independant research. But when all of the logic, science, facts, and many scholars point to this conclusion then how can you expect me to disagree when your only argument is that one of your Imam's told you something which goes against reality.
                              http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/157...rtsinsults.jpg
                              O ye who believe! Let not some among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former) Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, after he has believed: And those who do not desist are doing wrong. (QURAN, Sura Hujurat, 49:11)

                              Comment


                                Re: Hadiths on Najd (Wahabism)

                                the old iraq was much larger then modern-day iraq

                                and if you was in yemen would you still consider the UK to be in the west?
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