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Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

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    Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

    Salaams, today we were tlkin with our science teacher about islam and the quraan and wot it says bout science etc...

    she is a agnostic and a devote biologist...she says theres no proof etc

    was there a big bang? as far as i kow and wot my mosaab explained to us is that allah did the big bang....

    wot dus islam say bout evolution? Did it occur?

    Islam and science!...

    much appreciated....

    quraan and hadeeths?.. Jazakullah:up:

    #2
    Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

    "allah did the big bang" would be best for the ummah, as it would allow a full embrace of science. But....fat chance.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

      Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
      "allah did the big bang" would be best for the ummah, as it would allow a full embrace of science. But....fat chance.

      Actually, Allah DID indeed do the Big Bang and He mentioned it in the Quran over 1400 years back:

      “Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?”
      [Quran 21:30]

      And here's the verse on the expanding Universe:
      “And the heaven We created with might, and indeed We are (its) expander.”
      [Quran 51:47]


      To learn more about the Scientific miracles of the Quran, you can visit this website:
      www.islamreligion.com/category/34

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

        great! so why not embrace evolution and all the rest of it? what is islamically wrong with evolution? allah made the big bang then created genetic mutations and created reproduction and with those two things you have the basic mechanism whereby creatures evolve. allah didn't have to create all these individual creatures instead he just created this simple elegant mechanism to ensure something we can call evolution?

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

          theory of evolution says the fittest survive right? but thats not true is it? also evolution can't be proved or disproved. i believe in the big bang

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

            Originally posted by res novae View Post
            theory of evolution says the fittest survive right? but thats not true is it? also evolution can't be proved or disproved. i believe in the big bang
            Imagine a colony of 100 birds, all the same type, in a wood where the food source is bugs that live underneath tree bark. Due to genetic mutations each bird has a slightly different length beak.

            The birds who happen to have slightly longer beaks can get at the bugs more easily yeh? In fact there is competition between the birds and with other creatures in getting those bugs which are in limited supply. Let's say one of the birds with a shorter beak fails to get enough bugs, so he tweets his last tweet and topples to the ground dead from starvation. Another short beaked bird is so weak through lack of food that he fails to escape from a fox. So now we have 2 dead birds both with shorter beaks.

            The 98 birds mate. Their offspring will inherit the characteristics of their parents through the genes. The new generation of birds will therefore tend to have longer beaks, on average, than their parental group. This is because 2 birds carrying short-beak genes have failed to reproduce (they died). This process carries on down the centuries so our colony of birds gets longer and longer beaks.

            Another colony of birds, exactly the same as the first colony, started off in a different location where the food was not the bugs but something else that doesn't require longer beaks. After centuries, their beaks didn't get longer. So now we have a divergence of this species of bird.

            So you can see it's not to do with the fittest as in stamina, but fittest in terms of ability to reproduce. And it's not chance either except perhaps for the genetic differences that cause slight physical differences in the first place. I hope this helps. It's not that hard to understand the basics, although my explanation has been simplified and does not contain the full picture.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

              To TreadSoftly:

              The whole survival of the fittest description of nature is totally false. Animals are not in competition, they are co-operative beings, nature is much more social than they claim. Evolution just reflects the racist capitalist imperialist victorian ideology that was around the time that it was produced, believing that there were biological hierarchies, to justify white colonial rule of the rest of the world. Plus it's still a theory, and what about the whole issue of the transitional fossils?
              وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

              And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


              أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

              Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


              Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

              Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
                great! so why not embrace evolution and all the rest of it? what is islamically wrong with evolution? allah made the big bang then created genetic mutations and created reproduction and with those two things you have the basic mechanism whereby creatures evolve. allah didn't have to create all these individual creatures instead he just created this simple elegant mechanism to ensure something we can call evolution?

                Well first of all its just a THEORY of evolution. Its sad to see so many people make it a FACT of evolution.

                Secondly, Islam doesnt reject all of the theory of evolution. Some of it is Islamically acceptable. But Islam does reject the theory that man evolved form apes, or that God had nothing to do with Creation and Creation was just a random occurrence.

                Here a more detailed answer:
                www.islamreligion.com/articles/657

                http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...=1119503547388

                http://www.islamonline.net/English/S...rticle07.shtml


                Heres some videos by Islaimc scholars on this topic:
                www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrMHlHnF6qo

                www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3vglFjsDgw

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                  Originally posted by Tread Softly View Post
                  Imagine a colony of 100 birds, all the same type, in a wood where the food source is bugs that live underneath tree bark. Due to genetic mutations each bird has a slightly different length beak.

                  The birds who happen to have slightly longer beaks can get at the bugs more easily yeh? In fact there is competition between the birds and with other creatures in getting those bugs which are in limited supply. Let's say one of the birds with a shorter beak fails to get enough bugs, so he tweets his last tweet and topples to the ground dead from starvation. Another short beaked bird is so weak through lack of food that he fails to escape from a fox. So now we have 2 dead birds both with shorter beaks.

                  The 98 birds mate. Their offspring will inherit the characteristics of their parents through the genes. The new generation of birds will therefore tend to have longer beaks, on average, than their parental group. This is because 2 birds carrying short-beak genes have failed to reproduce (they died). This process carries on down the centuries so our colony of birds gets longer and longer beaks.

                  Another colony of birds, exactly the same as the first colony, started off in a different location where the food was not the bugs but something else that doesn't require longer beaks. After centuries, their beaks didn't get longer. So now we have a divergence of this species of bird.

                  So you can see it's not to do with the fittest as in stamina, but fittest in terms of ability to reproduce. And it's not chance either except perhaps for the genetic differences that cause slight physical differences in the first place. I hope this helps. It's not that hard to understand the basics, although my explanation has been simplified and does not contain the full picture.
                  ok i don't know too much, but i'm sure this isn't the same for humans because then only the fittest humans should exist in the world since all the weak ones should've been filtered out and only advantageous allelles should have been passed on to the offspring right? but we still have people who have inherited diseases/illnessess, shouldn't that not happen?
                  anyway eventhough what you say makes alot of sense, it's still not proof because for that we would need to witness an ape evolve into a human....or not.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                    there is a different between THEORY and "Scientific Theory"
                    "They are Shuhadaa (witnesses) to the fact that this Deen is greater than life, that values are more important than blood and that principles are more precious than souls" - Sheikh 'Abdullah Azzam

                    Lost in Islamic History :inlove:

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                      Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                      To TreadSoftly:

                      The whole survival of the fittest description of nature is totally false. Animals are not in competition, they are co-operative beings, nature is much more social than they claim. Evolution just reflects the racist capitalist imperialist victorian ideology that was around the time that it was produced, believing that there were biological hierarchies, to justify white colonial rule of the rest of the world. Plus it's still a theory, and what about the whole issue of the transitional fossils?
                      Well said. When I was down in South Africa I saw with my own eyes a group of gazelles having tea with a lion and amicably discussing global warming while on a visit to India I saw three tigers performing first aid on a wounded chital. Sadly the chital did not make it but the service the tigers held for it's burial brought tears to my eyes. Obviously on both these occaisions as a white man I only had half my concentration on these beautiful scenes as my inate evilness was busy oppressing the natives and being racist.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                        Originally posted by RicardoWolf View Post
                        Well said. When I was down in South Africa I saw with my own eyes a group of gazelles having tea with a lion and amicably discussing global warming while on a visit to India I saw three tigers performing first aid on a wounded chital. Sadly the chital did not make it but the service the tigers held for it's burial brought tears to my eyes. Obviously on both these occaisions as a white man I only had half my concentration on these beautiful scenes as my inate evilness was busy oppressing the natives and being racist.
                        loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool....

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                          RicardoWolf:

                          If my way of writing is too difficult for you to understand, don't hesitate to PM so I can break it down into chunks. There's no shame in adult illiteracy.

                          Anyways, I meant that animals act in packs and hoards, though defending their own species from rival species, act co-operatively together, as Marxist Zoologist Richard Letowin said. Charles Darwin developed his theory in Victorian England- therefore was influenced by his time ...
                          وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                          And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                          أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                          Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                          Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                          Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                            Originally posted by RicardoWolf View Post
                            Well said. When I was down in South Africa I saw with my own eyes a group of gazelles having tea with a lion and amicably discussing global warming while on a visit to India I saw three tigers performing first aid on a wounded chital. Sadly the chital did not make it but the service the tigers held for it's burial brought tears to my eyes. Obviously on both these occaisions as a white man I only had half my concentration on these beautiful scenes as my inate evilness was busy oppressing the natives and being racist.
                            That so cool! I wish a lion would have tea with me, I'm sure we'd have lots ot talk about. I wouldn't talk to the gazelle though...my dad once told me he ate one and somehow I'll feel like the gazelle will know about what my father did. I wouldn't be able to look at it in the eye.
                            مَّن ذَا الَّذِي يُقْرِضُ اللّهَ قَرْضًا حَسَنًا فَيُضَاعِفَهُ لَهُ أَضْعَافًا كَثِيرَةً وَاللّهُ يَقْبِضُ وَيَبْسُطُ وَإِلَيْهِ تُرْجَعُونَ

                            "Who is he that will loan to Allah a beautiful loan, which Allah will double unto his credit and multiply many times?
                            It is Allah that giveth (you) Want or plenty, and to Him shall be your return."
                            Surah al-Baqarah
                            [2:245]

                            .:.
                            .:. Perfer et Obdura : Dolor Hic Tibi Proderit Olim .:.
                            Be patient and strong : someday this pain will be useful to you

                            .:.
                            ...said the spider to the fly...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Proof that there is a god and all about evolution is rubbish?

                              Originally posted by LailaTheMuslim View Post
                              RicardoWolf:

                              If my way of writing is too difficult for you to understand, don't hesitate to PM so I can break it down into chunks. There's no shame in adult illiteracy.

                              Anyways, I meant that animals act in packs and hoards, though defending their own species from rival species, act co-operatively together, as Marxist Zoologist Richard Letowin said. Charles Darwin developed his theory in Victorian England- therefore was influenced by his time ...
                              I've got to be a good boy for a while so i'll describe your writing style as "confused". Which is super and there's nothing wrong with that. Well done. I have to honest that I'm still failing to find a single discernable logical point in anything you have typed but maybe that's just me?

                              Comment

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