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Haraam and Halaal Cheese

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    Haraam and Halaal Cheese

    How can cheese be haraam? As some cheese packets have a V sign for vegetarian and others do not. The ones which do not have a V sign, are they haraam?

    Also, if cheese can be haraam, can milk be haraam to? Vegetarian milk and non vegetarian milk???

    I think I remember someone saying here on ummah.com that the hanafi school of thought allows vegeratian and non vegeratian cheese??? But the other schools do not??????
    Last edited by nami; 22-08-08, 09:12 AM.
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    #2
    Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

    Cheese comes from cow. Thats all i know. Good question
    الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یارسول اللہ

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      #3
      Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

      Originally posted by Kasim2k7 View Post
      Cheese comes from cow. Thats all i know. Good question
      That's why I find it confusing....
      ...

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

        Originally posted by nami View Post
        That's why I find it confusing....
        This is what many people dont seem to understand and hence ignore and eat all types of cheese.

        However, there the one which is marked with V sign is vegetarian cheese and is halaal and the other is not. In the cheese on which they do not put the V sign, I think they add animal fat / rennet to it. Be it from cow or any other animal. Animal fat is not halaal unless the animal has been slaughtered in islamic manner.

        PizzaHut in UK clearly specifies to people when they ask whether the cheese being used in the pizza is vegetarian cheese or not because they use both type of cheese, veggy and non-vegetarian cheese. They say it on inquiry if asked to them.
        لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

          Originally posted by truepath View Post
          This is what many people dont seem to understand and hence ignore and eat all types of cheese.

          However, there the one which is marked with V sign is vegetarian cheese and is halaal and the other is not. In the cheese on which they do not put the V sign, I think they add animal fat / rennet to it. Be it from cow or any other animal. Animal fat is not halaal unless the animal has been slaughtered in islamic manner.

          PizzaHut in UK clearly specifies to people when they ask whether the cheese being used in the pizza is vegetarian cheese or not because they use both type of cheese, veggy and non-vegetarian cheese. They say it on inquiry if asked to them.
          yeah they put animal rennet in it to make it more tasty but mostly cheese is vegetarian because it comes from the milk part in the cow not the meat part
          الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یارسول اللہ

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            #6
            Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

            Casu Marza I think these would be haraam. It's Italian maggot cheese.
            Last edited by Anonymous2008; 22-08-08, 09:29 AM.

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              #7
              Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

              Originally posted by truepath View Post
              This is what many people dont seem to understand and hence ignore and eat all types of cheese.

              However, there the one which is marked with V sign is vegetarian cheese and is halaal and the other is not. In the cheese on which they do not put the V sign, I think they add animal fat / rennet to it. Be it from cow or any other animal. Animal fat is not halaal unless the animal has been slaughtered in islamic manner.

              PizzaHut in UK clearly specifies to people when they ask whether the cheese being used in the pizza is vegetarian cheese or not because they use both type of cheese, veggy and non-vegetarian cheese. They say it on inquiry if asked to them.
              it seems that according to the hanafi school of thought, rennet (as long as it is not from pig) is permissable, due to this hadith:

              It has been narrated in the major hadith collection s from Abdullah ibn Umar (Allah be pleased with him and hi s father) that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) was brought cheese in the Battle of Tabuk. He asked for a knife then recited 'bismillah' and cut the cheese.' (Abu Dawud)
              As:

              The lawfulness of rennet does not depend on the slaughterer being a Muslim or non-Muslim, in fact it depends upon whether there is life in it or not. The circulation of blood in an organ is the cause of life. No blood flows through rennet, therefore rennet is not a living thing. Therefore, it cannot 'die' and it is thus permissible to consume rennet.
              However:

              Cheese made with animal rennet other than a pig source is halal. The fuqaha explain, however, that it is better to avoid whenever reasonably possible when its source is unknown because of the difference of opinion between the Sunni schools of fiqh regarding its permissibility and the doubt therein.
              Source
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              Comment


                #8
                Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                Originally posted by nami View Post
                it seems that according to the hanafi school of thought, rennet (as long as it is not from pig) is permissable, due to this hadith:

                As:

                However:

                Source
                I personally buy only that cheese which has V sign or a halaal stamp from a proper and authentic halaal authority.

                Like for example I dont buy things even if it says halaal from some authority in Turkey cuz, boy! u never know as they're doin everythin to get EU membership so cant really trust how authentic that organisation in question from countries like turkey etc wud be unless someone knows it and confirms to me that its an authentic authority and can be trusted. But this is jusy my approach.
                لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                  Originally posted by truepath View Post
                  I personally buy only that cheese which has V sign or a halaal stamp from a proper and authentic halaal authority.

                  Like for example I dont buy things even if it says halaal from some authority in Turkey cuz, boy! u never know as they're doin everythin to get EU membership so cant really trust how authentic that organisation in question from countries like turkey etc wud be unless someone knows it and confirms to me that its an authentic authority and can be trusted. But this is jusy my approach.
                  they have turkey halal ham too. ewww i never ate it though even at hajj in saudi they have these bacon looking slices. halal ofcourse
                  الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یارسول اللہ

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                    Originally posted by truepath View Post
                    I personally buy only that cheese which has V sign or a halaal stamp from a proper and authentic halaal authority.

                    Like for example I dont buy things even if it says halaal from some authority in Turkey cuz, boy! u never know as they're doin everythin to get EU membership so cant really trust how authentic that organisation in question from countries like turkey etc wud be unless someone knows it and confirms to me that its an authentic authority and can be trusted. But this is jusy my approach.
                    Still kind of risky to use the V sign because the V sign doesn't always mean it is halaal. An example below.

                    The exact processes in the making of cheese varies between different varieties. However, all cheeses are made by essentially the same method. Initially, the milk is usually pasteurised by heating at 72°C for 15 seconds to destroy potentially harmful bacteria. The milk is then cooled to around 30°C and a starter culture of lactic acid bacteria is added to help souring. These convert lactose into lactic acid and help in the coagulation process. In addition, they also have a beneficial effect on the eventual quality, taste and consistency of the cheese. Some cheeses are coagulated entirely by lactic acid bacteria and are known as lactic-curd or acid-curd cheeses. However, some cheeses sold as lactic-curd cheese may have had rennet added.

                    The next stage is the addition of rennet, containing the enzyme chymosin. Rennet is usually sourced from the abomasum (fourth stomach) of newly-born calves. Here, chymosin aids the digestion and absorption of milk. Adult cows do not have this enzyme. Chymosin is extracted by washing and drying the stomach lining, which is then cut into small pieces and macerated in a solution of boric acid or brine at 30°C for 4-5 days. Pepsin may sometimes be used instead of chymosin. This is usually derived from the abomasum of grown calves or heifers, or less commonly pigs. Pepsin may be mixed with calf rennin. Rennet coagulates the milk, separating it into curds and whey. This is called curdling.

                    Chymosin breaks down the milk protein casein to paracasein which combines with calcium to form calcium paracaseinate, which separates out. Milk fat and some water also becomes incorporated into this mass, forming curds. The remaining liquid is the whey. The strength of different rennets can vary, though usual strength varies between 1:10,000 and 1:15,000 i.e. one part rennin can coagulate 10-15,000 parts milk.

                    Other substances may also be added during the cheese making process. Calcium chloride is added to improve the curdling process, and potassium nitrate is added to inhibit contaminating bacteria. Dyes (e.g. annatto, beta-carotene), Penicillium roquefortii mould spores to promote blue veining, or propionic acid bacteria to encourage hole formation may be added.

                    Following curdling, the curds are cut and drained. The size of the cut and the methods used vary for different cheese varieties. For soft cheeses, the curds are sparingly cut and allowed to drain naturally. For hard cheeses, the curds are heated and more whey is drained off. The curds are then cut into small pieces, placed in vats and pressed.

                    After pressing, the curds may be treated in a number of ways. They may be moulded into different shapes, soaked in a saltwater solution, be sprayed with mould forming spores or bacteria, washed in alcohol, or covered in herbs.

                    The final stage is ripening, or maturation. This can vary in length from 4 weeks to 2-3 years, depending on the type of cheese. During ripening flavours develop, the cheese becomes firmer and drier, and special characteristics such as holes, blue veining and crust formation occurs.
                    Probably best to stick with the halaal stamp. Where can I get cheese which has the halaal stamp?
                    ...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                      Kasim I know what your saying.

                      The problem is these days the approach of a muslim is, everything is halaal in a muslim country. They dont tend to inquire any further especially in muslim countries.

                      However, when I went to hajj both in Makkah and Madeenah the restaurants where our agent arranged food for us was getting meat imported from countries like Brazil, New Zealand and Australia.

                      Now, someone please explain to me why on earther the meat exporters from all these above 3 countries would really give a darn about implementing proper and authentic halaal methods? Who knows that they are running a tape recorder that says "bismillah" and some non muslim wud slaughter it. They are there to make business. so they need to do as many as they can and they will find whatever easy way out to get it done. Then claim it as halaal.

                      People buy meat and chicken from Tesco and other chain stores like Asda jus cuz these stores now a days stick a halal label on their product. But how sure can you be whether it was done in a proper authentic halaal manner or like I said, some polish guy might be slaughtering while a cd or cassette is being played which recites "bismillah" all the time in the slaughter house?

                      Trust me this not a story but a fact. While I used to live in Southampton. There was a slaughter house where this pakistani brother would go to work. He said besides him there was a polish guy working with him together slaughtering the animals and a "bismillah" cassette or cd was being played while polish guy was slaughtering and he was non muslim.

                      This pakistani bro worked for a few days and left the place as he didnt wanted to be a part of it where the person himself would not say kalima but wud slaughter animals one after the other and kamila is played from cassette/cd.

                      And those people stick the halaal label and supply in the market saying its halaal meat n chicken. I wonder how many slaughter houses follow these practices.
                      لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                        i know. this happened in our local area too. the report showed 1000 or 100 (im not sure) animal been slughtered in one day.

                        even 100 is hard enough from 9 to 5. so the imam went and asked how did you managed that. they found out a non muslim was slaughtering the animal. it happened on the Hajj eid this year. if your in the uk there is a company called MSPCA i think which authorised a halal dealer and meat
                        الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یارسول اللہ

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                          In UK I wouldn't trust any halaal stamp unless its HMC halaal stamping.

                          nami, no idea. I never saw any cheese with 'halaal' stamp in UK.

                          However, here in Bangkok they put halaal stamp from the halaal authority of thailand on everything that is halaal. Somethings that come from malaysia have halal stamp from malaysian halaal authority. But I dunno whether i can really trust these governmental authorities.
                          لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                            Originally posted by truepath View Post
                            In UK I wouldn't trust any halaal stamp unless its HMC halaal stamping.

                            nami, no idea. I never saw any cheese with 'halaal' stamp in UK.

                            However, here in Bangkok they put halaal stamp from the halaal authority of thailand on everything that is halaal. Somethings that come from malaysia have halal stamp from malaysian halaal authority. But I dunno whether i can really trust these governmental authorities.
                            malasiya is all halal i heard and all islamic
                            الصلوۃ والسلام علیک یا سیدی یارسول اللہ

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Haraam and Halaal Cheese

                              Originally posted by Kasim2k7 View Post
                              malasiya is all halal i heard and all islamic
                              lol I have been to malaysia 2-3 weeks ago. I failed to see the all halaal and all islamic part. Kuala Lumpur is getting as mordern and as busier as any other western city

                              Wallahu Alam

                              I guess it depends on how one defines or interprets the term "islamic". These days I guess everyone has their own interpretation for this term.
                              لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

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