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'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

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  • #46
    Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

    I think what bothers butchers is the fee.

    What HMC do is monitor suppliers daily and stamp/brand and sticker the meat and poultry. This is what gets suppliers approved by HMC.

    But if a particular grocers or butchers wants to gain status as HMC approved, they have to pay HMC to come and check the them daily to make sure there is no meat being sold other than HMC approved stuff. So for the butchers, not only are they paying a higher price to buy it from the suppliers (because suppliers charge more to cover their own HMC fees), but they then also have to pay HMC separately to approve their own shop.

    This isn't an attractive set up for butchers/shops etc, though on the supplier level it is good for slaughterhouses to prove themselves as authentic.. for butchers the cost is prohibitive and the rewards would probably only be personal satisfication.. because most customers are oblivious anyway.

    I know of one bucther who bypasses HMC's fee and doesn't have a certificate and isn't approved by HMC.. but what they do is use HMC approved suppliers and they show you the HMC branding on the actual meat, so you know it's been HMC monitored during the slaughtering process.
    My Lord, my trust in all Your purposes is strong, That trust is now my shield; I'm safe, and undeceived.- Ali bin Husayn al-Habshi

    Real forsaking is forgetting the thing forsaken.- Shaykh al-Shadhili

    Live as long as you wish, you shall die. Love whatever you wish, you shall be separated from it. Do whatever you wish, you shall be rewarded for it. - Jibreel (as)

    ياَ أَبَا اَلزَّهْرَاء وَلَّذِي صَانَكْ- لاَتُخَيِّبْنَا يَا سِيْدِي نَحْنُ ضِيْفَانَكْ
    O father of Zahra, for the sake of the One who protected you,
    Please do not leave us disappointed, O master, we are your guests. - Shaykh Ahmad al-Alawi (rh)

    أَنتَ رَبّي وَ عِلْمُكَ حَسْبِيْ. فَنِعْمَ الرَّبُّ رَبِّي وَ نِعْمَ الحَسْبُ حَسْبِيْ.ـ حِزْبُ البَحْر

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

      There are loads of places in my area that buy HMC meat, however because they don't pay the fee they are not allowed to display the certificate/ sign? I agree with you CW its crazy, because end of the day the butcher may even end up making a loss if he pays these fees.
      What does 'freedom' mean?

      Does the eagle want to swim in the sea,
      Restricted by the sky?

      Does the fish want to dance on the wind,
      Not enough river to explore?

      Yet the sky is freedom for the bird
      but death for the fish,

      The sea is wide for the fish
      but will engulf the bird.

      We ask for freedom but freedom to do what?
      We can only express our nature as it was created.

      The prayer mat of the earth is freedom,
      freedom from slavery to other than the One,
      Who offers an shoreless ocean of love to swim in
      and a horizon that extends to the next life,
      Yet we chose the prison and call it freedom.

      http://campaign.justgiving.com/chari...iyahschool2015

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

        COSTS AND FEES

        HMC is a non profit organisation and it’s objective is to serve the community. However, to operate such an enormous system without costs and overheads in nonsensical. Therefore fees are applied to the businesses wishing to be certified.

        However, every effort is made to keep the fees as nominal as possible and is only to cover the cost of the operations of HMC. The plant would have to be assessed by HMC in terms of their amount of production, size of plant, number of Inspectors needed etc before finalising the charge.
        The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
        (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
        In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

          There was a butcher we knew who said that their chicken was HMC (not too sure about the meat though...) but because they stamp the surface of the skin, the stamp went with it when they skin the chicken and chop it up for display in the cabinet.
          You are not aware of the consequences that would result (if you were granted what you desire) because what you seek might be to your detriment. (O soul) be conscious that your Master is more aware about your well-being than you are.

          ~Ibn Al-Jawzee

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

            are there any ulama behind HFA?
            The enforcement of Muslim Brotherhood is the greatest social ideal of Islam. On it was based the Prophet's (SAW) sermon on his last pilgrimage, and Islam cannot be completely realized until this ideal is achieved. '
            (Shaikh Maulana Muhammad Yusuf)
            In Lam Takun Ghaadiban Annee Falaa Ubaalee...

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

              Yeh, at the same time though, if HMC is an independant organisation that has to fund itself to operate, then what are they to do? If they have dudes actually physically going and checking everything is halal, that's doing the rest of us who are concerned consumers a big favour, and they can't just do it for free, so they do have to charge and make enough money to keep going.

              So what's the solution?
              My Lord, my trust in all Your purposes is strong, That trust is now my shield; I'm safe, and undeceived.- Ali bin Husayn al-Habshi

              Real forsaking is forgetting the thing forsaken.- Shaykh al-Shadhili

              Live as long as you wish, you shall die. Love whatever you wish, you shall be separated from it. Do whatever you wish, you shall be rewarded for it. - Jibreel (as)

              ياَ أَبَا اَلزَّهْرَاء وَلَّذِي صَانَكْ- لاَتُخَيِّبْنَا يَا سِيْدِي نَحْنُ ضِيْفَانَكْ
              O father of Zahra, for the sake of the One who protected you,
              Please do not leave us disappointed, O master, we are your guests. - Shaykh Ahmad al-Alawi (rh)

              أَنتَ رَبّي وَ عِلْمُكَ حَسْبِيْ. فَنِعْمَ الرَّبُّ رَبِّي وَ نِعْمَ الحَسْبُ حَسْبِيْ.ـ حِزْبُ البَحْر

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                Sponsership? Perhaps Muslim buisnesses who are doing well/ established could sponsor them sp the butchers are not having to pay extortionate fees?

                For a butcher that serves a huge community, the fee would be worth it becasue perhaps he will make a profit anyway. For a small butcher on a road competing with 5 other butchers, he will make a loss having to pay extra fees to 'prove' he bought HMC chicken.
                What does 'freedom' mean?

                Does the eagle want to swim in the sea,
                Restricted by the sky?

                Does the fish want to dance on the wind,
                Not enough river to explore?

                Yet the sky is freedom for the bird
                but death for the fish,

                The sea is wide for the fish
                but will engulf the bird.

                We ask for freedom but freedom to do what?
                We can only express our nature as it was created.

                The prayer mat of the earth is freedom,
                freedom from slavery to other than the One,
                Who offers an shoreless ocean of love to swim in
                and a horizon that extends to the next life,
                Yet we chose the prison and call it freedom.

                http://campaign.justgiving.com/chari...iyahschool2015

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                  Originally posted by Chained_Water View Post
                  Erm I don't think its fair to believe whatever HMC say about HFA :S

                  I just checked their website, read the following page:

                  http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/main_zibah.htm

                  That does NOT make out that they don't think bismillah should be read for each animal slaughtered, cuz on that page they say it should and like calculate how many men would be needed where the slaughter is mechanical..

                  So they are saying that where the slaughter is done by mechanical blades.. there should still be someone present to supervise and say bismillah. :S

                  That does not mean they view bismillah as unnecessary.. all it means is they certify mechanical slaughter as halaal if bismillah is read.
                  This arguement is weak and has no basis in Islamic shariah. But rather a pure example of how people start to follow their own nafs and hawa as they like, jus to make things easier for themselves.

                  Millions of animals are slaughtered in India and Pakistan. They are all done manual by men who recite bismillah before they do it.

                  Dont forget the muslim population of India alone is bigger than the whole of Europe and North America combined together. On top of that with such a large muslim population of 250+ million muslims, in such a poor country, yet the muslims of the country still manage to do halaal manual slaughter by reciting the name of Allah. This is not just a claim but is reality because theres no other method followed besides manual slaughter. There are no stunning equipments nor are practiced or allowed by muslims in these poor countries.

                  Perhaps muslims of Europe are too busy and hence think no body has time. Or make excuses like how many people will be required to do manual slaughter of every animal, even tho the population of these European countries is tiny compared to the muslim population of Indo, Pak and Bangladesh.

                  If people take their deen more seriously, then they will not come up with these shallow excuses as listed out by HFA.
                  لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                    Sorry but just to mention that the UK has very very strict guidelines re: slaughtering animals. There are strict hygiene guidelines to be met. There are qualifications required for each slaughterman. There are premises guidelines, meat quality control and many many other issues that need to be addressed for a simple slaughter.

                    In India/ Pakistan, perhaps there are not these stringent guidelines as to how/ where/ by whom the animal is slaughtered, which means they are able to do more/ cheaper meat for the Muslim communities.
                    What does 'freedom' mean?

                    Does the eagle want to swim in the sea,
                    Restricted by the sky?

                    Does the fish want to dance on the wind,
                    Not enough river to explore?

                    Yet the sky is freedom for the bird
                    but death for the fish,

                    The sea is wide for the fish
                    but will engulf the bird.

                    We ask for freedom but freedom to do what?
                    We can only express our nature as it was created.

                    The prayer mat of the earth is freedom,
                    freedom from slavery to other than the One,
                    Who offers an shoreless ocean of love to swim in
                    and a horizon that extends to the next life,
                    Yet we chose the prison and call it freedom.

                    http://campaign.justgiving.com/chari...iyahschool2015

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                      I was also under the impression that HFA have a machine reciting bismillah in the slaughterhouse? Or is this someone else?
                      What does 'freedom' mean?

                      Does the eagle want to swim in the sea,
                      Restricted by the sky?

                      Does the fish want to dance on the wind,
                      Not enough river to explore?

                      Yet the sky is freedom for the bird
                      but death for the fish,

                      The sea is wide for the fish
                      but will engulf the bird.

                      We ask for freedom but freedom to do what?
                      We can only express our nature as it was created.

                      The prayer mat of the earth is freedom,
                      freedom from slavery to other than the One,
                      Who offers an shoreless ocean of love to swim in
                      and a horizon that extends to the next life,
                      Yet we chose the prison and call it freedom.

                      http://campaign.justgiving.com/chari...iyahschool2015

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                        I never heard the butcher in Pak recite anything when he slaughtered the chicken. He'd just stick his hand in the cage, grab the nearest one and, in full view of all the other chickens (who by this stage began to cluck noisily and flap as though to escape the cage), slit its throat and leave it to the side for a while (for the blood to drain) before skinning it.

                        His lips didnt move at all during this entire process except at the end to ask for the money.
                        You are not aware of the consequences that would result (if you were granted what you desire) because what you seek might be to your detriment. (O soul) be conscious that your Master is more aware about your well-being than you are.

                        ~Ibn Al-Jawzee

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: 'Halal' food outlets . . . HFA/HMC/Halal

                          Originally posted by ze leetle elper View Post
                          Does HMC monitor whether the aniimal was raised in a cage or free range? Is this not as, if not somewhat more, important than reciting bismillah when you slaughter it?
                          Allah and his rasool set the condition of halaal to be that it should be slaughtered by reciting bismillah.

                          As for being raised in cage, that comes under animal abuse but that doesn't effects halaal or haram issue. However, reciting bismillah or not does effect.
                          لا أريد مِنْكُمْ جَزَاء وَلا شُكُورًا

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Masha'allah.....

                            Originally posted by KeeKee View Post
                            COSTS AND FEES
                            In all honesty whatever nominal amount that the HMC brothers request in order for butchers, etc. to be certified beyond doubt in order to do inspections/ admin, etc. and thereby HMC approved meat being slightly more expensive then the doubtful is more then worth it.

                            We Muslims like to consume more then our fair share when it comes to portions and demand whatever is due yet we are becoming a nation that wants everything in haste yet expect it all to be a freebie, also we'll moan and complain that nothing is being done or will criticise the Muslims who are trying.

                            As and until the caliphate is re-established with our Shari'ah courts whereby the Islamic government will take care of such matters related to regulating halaal produce and these munafiqeen who sell haraam guised as halaal are tried we need to assist the believers who are doing their very best to facilitate the halaal for us all- and if it means we need to pay and recognise their authority then that is what needs to be done.

                            With regards to the HMC does anyone have info. as to what assistance they require and the means that brothers and sisters can help them?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Last edited by NewParent; 07-05-09, 04:15 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Also.....

                                Last edited by Fudhayl; 07-05-09, 04:34 PM.

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