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    Is it against forum rules to mention or quote Jesus the Messiah - A prophet of Islam mentioned many times in the Qur'an? Or to talk about the work of the Holy Spirit who is mentioned in the Qur'an as the one who supports believers for example Qur'an sura 2:87 And We gave Jesus son of Mary the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit?

  • #2
    You can quote Jesus if you also provide authentic chains of narration. Otherwise, stick to the 'Comparative Religion' section.

    That's fair.

    Comment


    • #3
      The most authentic chain of naration is that the words are found in the Injil.
      These words were writen by people who lived with Jesus and writen within the life time of eyewitnesses to the events. They were subsiquently confirmed by authorative leaders (often people who knew the authors) in the Christian community in the 1st and 2nd century.
      The Qur'an also contains references to the fact that the Injil and the Torah contain light and guidence: Qur'an al-Maidah 5:46
      In their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of Mary, fulfilling the Torah that preceded him; and We gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that preceded him, and guidance and counsel for the righteous.
      The Injil and the Torah which I read each day is the same one that was around at the time of Muhammed and was used and autheticated by Christians for many years before that.
      I will use the comparative religion section but would still value the privilage of contributing to other people's posts.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post
        The most authentic chain of naration is that the words are found in the Injil...
        Please post the chain.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post
          The most authentic chain of naration is that the words are found in the Injil.
          These words were writen by people who lived with Jesus and writen within the life time of eyewitnesses to the events. They were subsiquently confirmed by authorative leaders (often people who knew the authors) in the Christian community in the 1st and 2nd century.
          The Qur'an also contains references to the fact that the Injil and the Torah contain light and guidence: Qur'an al-Maidah 5:46
          In their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of Mary, fulfilling the Torah that preceded him; and We gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that preceded him, and guidance and counsel for the righteous.
          The Injil and the Torah which I read each day is the same one that was around at the time of Muhammed and was used and autheticated by Christians for many years before that.
          I will use the comparative religion section but would still value the privilage of contributing to other people's posts.
          Hello brother Dave,

          Yes I’ve heard about what you speak of. Jesus is mentioned many times (Isa) in the Quran.

          I also understand that Muhammad’s uncle was Christian. And Muhammad befriended the Christian monks of Mount Sinai

          Would you consider yourself Catholic, Protestant or perhaps Muslim ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post
            Is it against forum rules to mention or quote Jesus the Messiah - A prophet of Islam mentioned many times in the Qur'an? Or to talk about the work of the Holy Spirit who is mentioned in the Qur'an as the one who supports believers for example Qur'an sura 2:87 And We gave Jesus son of Mary the clear proofs, and We supported him with the Holy Spirit?
            the translation say pure spirit and not the holy spirit . the aya is talking about jibreel you can find the quran along with the tafsir here https://quran.ksu.edu.sa/tafseer/saadi/sura2-aya87.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post
              The most authentic chain of naration is that the words are found in the Injil.
              These words were writen by people who lived with Jesus and writen within the life time of eyewitnesses to the events. They were subsiquently confirmed by authorative leaders (often people who knew the authors) in the Christian community in the 1st and 2nd century.
              The Qur'an also contains references to the fact that the Injil and the Torah contain light and guidence: Qur'an al-Maidah 5:46
              In their footsteps, We sent Jesus son of Mary, fulfilling the Torah that preceded him; and We gave him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that preceded him, and guidance and counsel for the righteous.
              The Injil and the Torah which I read each day is the same one that was around at the time of Muhammed and was used and autheticated by Christians for many years before that.
              I will use the comparative religion section but would still value the privilage of contributing to other people's posts.
              when the quran refer to the torah and injil it refers to the original scriptures that were lost not the ones in our hands today mabe if you delve into biblical criticism you will understand that the old and new testament we have today are not the original texts nor do we know the identity of the author and you can go further by studying how and when both scriptures got compiled

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hamza1416 View Post

                the translation say pure spirit and not the holy spirit
                Sorry I can't read Arabic so the link didn't really help.
                I've looked at a number of English translations there seems to be a majority which use 'holy' or 'Holy' rather than 'pure'. I would suggest that holy and pure are very similar in meaning and when used in this context the word has the meaning righteious, sinless, separate.
                The Arabic word "Ruh-ul-Qudus" رُوحِ الْقُدُسِ
                I'm not sure why translators of the Qur'an suggest that this is the Angel Gabriel as the words clearly talk about ruh which I understand as spirit and qudus which as far as I can make out means pure or holy.
                God in his holy power comes and supports his people on earth. He doesn't leave us alone or send something in his place (even if it is an angel). In my own life I know God's Holy Spirit coming to me to help and support me to live for him and to resist the devil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post

                  Please post the chain.
                  Still waiting?
                  "My servants, you who have transgressed against yourselves, do not despair of the mercy of Allah. Truly Allah forgives all wrong actions. He is the Ever-Forgiving, the Most Merciful." (Surat az-Zumar: 53)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hamza1416 View Post

                    when the quran refer to the torah and injil it refers to the original scriptures that were lost not the ones in our hands today mabe if you delve into biblical criticism you will understand that the old and new testament we have today are not the original texts nor do we know the identity of the author and you can go further by studying how and when both scriptures got compiled
                    I appreciate your comment - It is important to study the source documents of our faith and not just accept word of mouth ideas.
                    I have, throughout my life of walking with God, delved and studied Biblical Criticism. I am convinced that the documents that we have, which are used when translations are made into other languages, are authentic, reliable and trustworthy. I also respect and honour the scolarship and study that goes into translation and the analyasis of acient documents.
                    I acknowledge that we do not have in our hands the work of the original authors. Texts writen 2,000 years ago are unlikely to have survived in tact. But the multitude of acient documents we do have, from various places and in diffrent languages, allow scolars to produce translations which reliably reflect the meaning and teaching which the 1st Century authors wrote.

                    The question I have when I read your comment is why do you want to discredit the reliability of the texts of the Bible? What is it about these documents that makes you want to suggest that they cannot be trusted?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post

                      Sorry I can't read Arabic so the link didn't really help.
                      I've looked at a number of English translations there seems to be a majority which use 'holy' or 'Holy' rather than 'pure'. I would suggest that holy and pure are very similar in meaning and when used in this context the word has the meaning righteious, sinless, separate.
                      The Arabic word "Ruh-ul-Qudus" رُوحِ الْقُدُسِ
                      I'm not sure why translators of the Qur'an suggest that this is the Angel Gabriel as the words clearly talk about ruh which I understand as spirit and qudus which as far as I can make out means pure or holy.
                      God in his holy power comes and supports his people on earth. He doesn't leave us alone or send something in his place (even if it is an angel). In my own life I know God's Holy Spirit coming to me to help and support me to live for him and to resist the devil.
                      if you cant read arabic then you shouldnt make judgments on arabic words meaning based on assumptions about english translations quran was revealed in arabic so any translation to another language remains a human effort that cannot represent the original text 100% whenever you see روح القدس in the quran it the angel jibreel

                      there is only one god mabe if you read the bible and compare it to the quran you wil see wich one represent god and hes prophets properly

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dave Abi View Post

                        I appreciate your comment - It is important to study the source documents of our faith and not just accept word of mouth ideas.
                        I have, throughout my life of walking with God, delved and studied Biblical Criticism. I am convinced that the documents that we have, which are used when translations are made into other languages, are authentic, reliable and trustworthy. I also respect and honour the scolarship and study that goes into translation and the analyasis of acient documents.
                        I acknowledge that we do not have in our hands the work of the original authors. Texts writen 2,000 years ago are unlikely to have survived in tact. But the multitude of acient documents we do have, from various places and in diffrent languages, allow scolars to produce translations which reliably reflect the meaning and teaching which the 1st Century authors wrote.

                        The question I have when I read your comment is why do you want to discredit the reliability of the texts of the Bible? What is it about these documents that makes you want to suggest that they cannot be trusted?
                        the quran was preserved in the hearts of the beleivers and by by chain of trustworthy narrators traced back to the Prophet teachers teaching it to their students from how to spell words to tajweed quran is also the most recited book in the world muslims recite it in prayers day and night people reading and memorising it all the time from children to old people since the time of the prophet peace be upon him now compare that to the bible wich we dont know who the author was we dont have the original text and there is clear contradictions in the scriptures where there are words added or substracted i doubt that you have either not studied biblical critisism or you are not being honest about it

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hamza1416 View Post

                          if you cant read arabic then you shouldnt make judgments on arabic words meaning based on assumptions about english translations quran was revealed in arabic so any translation to another language remains a human effort that cannot represent the original text 100% whenever you see روح القدس in the quran it the angel jibreel

                          there is only one god mabe if you read the bible and compare it to the quran you wil see wich one represent god and hes prophets properly
                          Can you tell me what Qur'an 58:22 means? Here it says God supports all true believers with رُوحٍ from him. Does this mean the Angel Jibreel is present everywhere there is a believer? I though only God is omnipresent.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hamza1416 Can you tell me where the original Qur'an is that Muhammed recited to his friends?
                            I agree that Muslims recite the Qur'an. I think you will find that just as many Christians study the Bible carfully and seek to understand it and follow its teaching. I read the Bible every day asking God to help me to understand it and apply it in my life. The more I read it and study it, the more I am amazed at who God is and what he has done for me and all mankind.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eesa the kiwi View Post

                              Still waiting?
                              Let's be honest, nobody expected anything.

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