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Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

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  • #46
    Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

    Originally posted by ALIJAN1001
    "PLS READ SHIA BELIEFS AND COMMENT DO YOU EVEN THINK THAT A PERSON WHO BELEIVED ON THESE BELIEFS IS MUSLIM, MARRY WITH SHIA IS LIKE MARRY WITH HINDU, CHRISTAN, JEW, BUDDAH, PARSI ETC.

    TERRIFYING BELIEFS OF SHI'ITES

    1. Allaah often lies and does mistakes. (usool-e-kaafi, page #328, yaqoob kulaini, vol1)......"
    Have you copy+pasted those information from anti-Shiite sites???. Have you checked their credibility or just blindly copy+pasted them. Do you realize that there are many anti-Islamic (anti-sunni) verses you can also copy+paste from anti-Islamic sites....

    No, I am a Sunni, but I would never call Shias as kafir. They follow the 5 pillars of Islam, they pray 5 times a day. They believe in the Qur'an as the word of God (The idea that they believe the Quran is corrupted is a myth/lie spread across the Sunnis to increase the division with Shiites). They don't drink Alcohol. They eat halal/slaughtered meats. So, what authority do we have to call them Kafirs?,

    Is their Kalima different? They have an extra line added to Shahadah.. which translates - 'Ali (ra) is a slave of Allah' after what our Shahadah, so, is it any different in terms of meaning than our Shahadah?.

    Please don't make such statements and call other Muslim as kafirs just because he/she does something un-Islamic. I have seen Sufis do many un-Islamic things..so, should we start calling them kafirs too..
    Last edited by irony; 28-04-08, 12:45 AM.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

      Originally posted by irony View Post
      Have you copy+pasted those information from anti-Shiite sites???. Have you checked their credibility or just blindly copy+pasted them. Do you realize that there are many anti-Islamic (anti-sunni) verses you can also copy+paste from anti-Islamic sites....

      No, I am a Sunni, but I would never call Shias as kafir. They follow the 5 pillars of Islam, they pray 5 times a day. They believe in the Qur'an as the word of God (The idea that they believe the Quran is corrupted is a myth/lie spread across the Sunnis to increase the division with Shiites). They don't drink Alcohol. They eat halal/slaughtered meats. So, what authority do we have to call them Kafirs?,

      Is their Kalima different? They have an extra line added to Shahadah.. which translates - 'Ali (ra) is a slave of Allah' after what our Shahadah, so, is it any different in terms of meaning than our Shahadah?.

      Please don't make such statements and call other Muslim as kafirs just because he/she does something un-Islamic. I have seen Sufis do many un-Islamic things..so, should we start calling them kafirs too..
      I sense a hint of Taqiyyah here...
      We blame our time though we are to blame.
      No fault has time but only us.
      We scold the time for all the shame.
      Did it have tongue, it would scold us.

      Imam al-Shafi'i

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

        My sister's friend married a shi'a and now she and her child must be shi'a.

        Solid advice: It's better to avoid for the sake of unity in your marriage, in your extended family and in raising your children.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

          Originally posted by Overseer View Post
          I sense a hint of Taqiyyah here...
          Care to enlighten a bit?. Lieing is not permitted in Islam doesn't matter if u r a sunni or shia... the same rules applies. The only exception is when ur life is under threat. Atleast, thats as far as i know.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by irony View Post
            Have you copy+pasted those information from anti-Shiite sites???. Have you checked their credibility or just blindly copy+pasted them. Do you realize that there are many anti-Islamic (anti-sunni) verses you can also copy+paste from anti-Islamic sites....

            No, I am a Sunni, but I would never call Shias as kafir. They follow the 5 pillars of Islam, they pray 5 times a day. They believe in the Qur'an as the word of God (The idea that they believe the Quran is corrupted is a myth/lie spread across the Sunnis to increase the division with Shiites). They don't drink Alcohol. They eat halal/slaughtered meats. So, what authority do we have to call them Kafirs?,

            Is their Kalima different? They have an extra line added to Shahadah.. which translates - 'Ali (ra) is a slave of Allah' after what our Shahadah, so, is it any different in terms of meaning than our Shahadah?.

            Please don't make such statements and call other Muslim as kafirs just because he/she does something un-Islamic. I have seen Sufis do many un-Islamic things..so, should we start calling them kafirs too..

            THESE HAS BEEN CHECKED AND FOUND CORRECT, IF YOU HAVE SOME REVERSATION YOU MAY CHECK FROM SHIA'S BOOKS, REFERENCE HAS BEEN QUOTED ON EACH BELIFS.

            ALSO NO SHIA CHALLANGED SUCH INFORMATION TILL TODAY, AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION I WAS SHIA, CONVERTED IN MUSLIM I KNOW MUCH WORSE THAN THIS.

            IF YOU WANT SOME MORE INFORMATION YOU MAY GET FROM ME.
            Last edited by ALIJAN1001; 28-04-08, 06:19 AM. Reason: CORRECTION.
            Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

              Originally posted by shamson View Post
              SubhanAllah!!! If this stuff is true then it is disgusting, i have never really looked into the beliefs of the shia (except very briefly) but this stuff is horrific!
              THIS INFORMATIONS ARE TRUE, IF SOME ONE HAVE ANY RESERVATION, THEY WILL CHECK FROM SHIA'S BOOK SOURCE OF INFORMATION HAS BEEN GIVEN ON EACH BELIF.
              Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                Originally posted by irony View Post
                Have you copy+pasted those information from anti-Shiite sites???. Have you checked their credibility or just blindly copy+pasted them. Do you realize that there are many anti-Islamic (anti-sunni) verses you can also copy+paste from anti-Islamic sites....

                No, I am a Sunni, but I would never call Shias as kafir. They follow the 5 pillars of Islam, they pray 5 times a day. They believe in the Qur'an as the word of God (The idea that they believe the Quran is corrupted is a myth/lie spread across the Sunnis to increase the division with Shiites). They don't drink Alcohol. They eat halal/slaughtered meats. So, what authority do we have to call them Kafirs?,

                Is their Kalima different? They have an extra line added to Shahadah.. which translates - 'Ali (ra) is a slave of Allah' after what our Shahadah, so, is it any different in terms of meaning than our Shahadah?.

                Please don't make such statements and call other Muslim as kafirs just because he/she does something un-Islamic. I have seen Sufis do many un-Islamic things..so, should we start calling them kafirs too..

                YOU ARE FIRST PERSON BELEIVES THAT SHIA IS NOT KAFIR, FOR YOUR INFORMATION AHLUL-SUNNA PRACTISING 4 RELIGION (HANAFI, SHAFIA, HANBLE, MALIKI) WE HAVE FATWAS OF ALL FROM AHLUL-SUNNA ABOUT SHIA THAT THEY ARE KAFIR, FROM IMAM GHAZALI, TO AHMED RAZA KHAN BRALVI ALL ARE ONE AGAINST SHIA, THAT THEY ARE KAFIR.
                Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                  ONE THING MORE IF WANT TO SEE THE PICTURE OF HAZRAT ALI RA BEING WORSHIPED BY SHIA. PLS VISIT FOLLOWING WEB LINK.

                  http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shiites/...is_picture.htm
                  Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                    Originally posted by ALIJAN1001 View Post
                    THESE HAS BEEN CHECKED AND FOUND CORRECT, IF YOU HAVE SOME REVERSATION YOU MAY CHECK FROM SHIA'S BOOKS, REFERENCE HAS BEEN QUOTED ON EACH BELIFS.

                    ALSO NO SHIA CHALLANGED SUCH INFORMATION TILL TODAY, AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION I WAS SHIA, CONVERTED IN MUSLIM I KNOW MUCH WORSE THAN THIS.

                    IF YOU WANT SOME MORE INFORMATION YOU MAY GET FROM ME.
                    Do you realize that most anti-Islamic sites give information like that, i.e half quites /out-of context etc. and they make exactly the same kind of statement that you are making...I remember reading on an anti-Islamic sites that "This has been challenged but no muslim was able to refute it..etc which is basically a lie because he never agreed to get into a debate".. I am not accusing you of that, but if Shiites were Kafirs, they wouldn't have been allowed to do Hajj and into the cities of Makkah and Madina, and don't tell me this is because of Saudi corrupted regimes. Shiites has been allowed to do Hajj since 8th century if I am not mistaken, so, we shouldnot be calling them Kafirs. In anycase, I know Shias and I will ask them about these issues.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                      Originally posted by ALIJAN1001 View Post
                      YOU ARE FIRST PERSON BELEIVES THAT SHIA IS NOT KAFIR, FOR YOUR INFORMATION AHLUL-SUNNA PRACTISING 4 RELIGION (HANAFI, SHAFIA, HANBLE, MALIKI) WE HAVE FATWAS OF ALL FROM AHLUL-SUNNA ABOUT SHIA THAT THEY ARE KAFIR, FROM IMAM GHAZALI, TO AHMED RAZA KHAN BRALVI ALL ARE ONE AGAINST SHIA, THAT THEY ARE KAFIR.

                      I follow the Hanafi Madhab and I don't think I am the first person like that. Shiites pray SIDE BY SIDE with Sunnis in Makkah and thats around Kabbah, the holiest place of Islam. If they are Kafirs why do they perform Hajj EVERY year?. Why are they even allowed in Makkah and Madina?. We cannot call them Kafirs, this is utter ridiculous.

                      I have seen Sufis worshiping the grave of their saints (100% Shirk), but that is an action carried out only by a few who does it ignorantly, its not done by all Sufis. So according to you are they kafirs too...
                      Last edited by irony; 28-04-08, 11:48 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                        Oh here we go...

                        I am Bangladeshi and I recognize Palestine as the #194 country

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                          Originally posted by irony View Post
                          Do you realize that most anti-Islamic sites give information like that, i.e half quites /out-of context etc. and they make exactly the same kind of statement that you are making...I remember reading on an anti-Islamic sites that "This has been challenged but no muslim was able to refute it..etc which is basically a lie because he never agreed to get into a debate".. I am not accusing you of that, but if Shiites were Kafirs, they wouldn't have been allowed to do Hajj and into the cities of Makkah and Madina, and don't tell me this is because of Saudi corrupted regimes. Shiites has been allowed to do Hajj since 8th century if I am not mistaken, so, we shouldnot be calling them Kafirs. In anycase, I know Shias and I will ask them about these issues.
                          What a answer, i told you that i was shia and i know much more than this, i challenge you if you find some this wrong, point out or accept this because this is from authenticated books of shia.

                          About fatwa against shia i already replied that in every era, ullma of ahlul-sunna give fatwa-e-kufur to shia, and for your information they are performing this salah after sunni imam at makkah and madina, it is totaly restructed to perform sallah after shai imam.

                          Hope answer the question.
                          Last edited by dhak1yya; 29-04-08, 08:24 AM. Reason: changing from upper to lower case: please type in lowercase as posts all in capitals look very aggressive
                          Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                            Originally posted by irony View Post
                            I follow the Hanafi Madhab and I don't think I am the first person like that. Shiites pray SIDE BY SIDE with Sunnis in Makkah and thats around Kabbah, the holiest place of Islam. If they are Kafirs why do they perform Hajj EVERY year?. Why are they even allowed in Makkah and Madina?. We cannot call them Kafirs, this is utter ridiculous.

                            I have seen Sufis worshiping the grave of their saints (100% Shirk), but that is an action carried out only by a few who does it ignorantly, its not done by all Sufis. So according to you are they kafirs too...
                            What hanafi you are, did you know that there are two big school of thoughts debandi and bralvi in hanafi school, both are same thought against shai. Both gives fatwa-e-kufar aginst evil sect.
                            Last edited by dhak1yya; 29-04-08, 08:26 AM. Reason: changing from upper to lower case: please type in lowercase as posts all in capitals look very aggressive
                            Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Question :

                              Ithna ashrah which is the largest sect of the shiah
                              Religion found in our country, is muslim or kafir? And
                              Whether inter-marri ages with shias are lawful,
                              Whether one can lawfully take their zabiah (meat of
                              Animals slaughtered by them) and whether it is
                              Permissible to say their funeral prayer or invite them
                              To participate in the funeral prayer of sunni muslims?
                              Besides if the shias wish to make donations for masjid
                              Whether such donations should be accepted or noet?

                              Answer:

                              Shia ithna ashrah rafida are definitely outside the
                              Pale of islam. Our ulama in the earlier generations
                              Were not fully aware of the realities of the shia
                              Religion because of the fact that the shia used to
                              Hide the teachings of their faith on the principle of
                              Taqiya and their books about religion were also not
                              Available. As such some of the earlier
                              Researchers/alims did not declare them as kafirs on
                              The basis of extreme care that they took in such
                              Matters. But today their books are available for study
                              And the reality of the shia religion which was
                              Shrouded in mystery earlier has now become crystal
                              Clear to all and sundry. Hence all the researcher in
                              Religion have become unanimous in the kufr of shias
                              (on account of their beliefs bordering on kufr).
                              Denial of the fundamentals of deen is kufr and among
                              The fundamentals, al-qur'an occupies the most
                              Prominent position as it is the foundtain-head of all
                              The beliefs and principles of islam and shias in all
                              The ages without any difference of opinionsubscribe to
                              The belief of tahrif (alteration) in the qur'an. In
                              The authentic books of shia religion, there are no
                              Less then 200 narrations abot tahrif in the qur'an.
                              The following five types of tahrif have been mentioned
                              In those books: (i) corruption of text. (ii) changing
                              Of words. (iii) changing of letters, (iv) defective
                              Chronologigal order and (v) defective chronology
                              Followed in surahs, ayats and words.

                              According to shia ulama the above mentioned five types
                              Of tahrif in the qur'an have been established on the
                              Basis of ( ) un-interrupted narrations which lend
                              Support to the theory of tahrif in the qur'an and
                              Shias are firm of their belief in this regard.

                              The founders of shias religion ever since they laid
                              Its foundation have passed through three historical
                              Phases. In the first phase, no one among the shias
                              Held the belief that qur'an is complete and
                              Uncorrputed. However in the second phase only four
                              Persons/ priests among the shias professed out of
                              Sheer taqiya that there has been no tahrif in the
                              Qur'an. They were (1) abu jaffar sani muhammad bin ali
                              Bin hussain bin mussa bin bayybah allama sadduqh, died
                              381 h (2) sharif murtaza abul qasim ali bin hussain
                              Bin hassanaian bin mussa baghdadi ilmul huda, died 436
                              H (3) shaikh at-taiyfah abu jaffar muhammad bin
                              Hussain bin ali toousi mufasir, died 460 h. (4) abu
                              Ali tabrisi aminuddin fazal bin hussain bin fazal
                              Mashudi, author tafsir majmah al-bayan, died 548 h.

                              That is to say in the second phase from 381 h to 548 h
                              Only four person/priests among the shias did not
                              Believe that there has been tahrif in the qur'an.
                              However, since their sayings were not based on
                              Arguments and were against the un-interrupted
                              Narrations ( ) of the shia religion, the shia ulama of
                              The second phase rejected their sayings/findings. Full
                              Details in this regard can be seen in my book (i.e.
                              "discussions & deliberations regarding tahrif in
                              Al-qur'an").

                              Allama bahrul uloom farangi mahal earlier used to
                              Issue fatwa to the effect that shias are muslims but
                              After seeing tafsir majmah bayan he came to know about
                              The kufr of shias and wrote that whoso subscribes to
                              The view of tahrif in the qur'an, is definitely a
                              Kafir (disbeliever in islam).

                              To be brief, the claim of kufr on shias is not solely
                              Established by their belief of tahrif in the qur'an
                              But is further supported and augumented by other
                              Factors like their belief in bada and qudzf ( slander
                              Or scandalous suggestions) about wives of the holy
                              Prophet (saw) who are mothers of all the believers.

                              Hence it is not permissible to have inter-marriage
                              Relations with shias, their zabi'ah is unlawful for
                              Muslims; their donation (for masjids) cannot be
                              Accepted and to say their funeral prayers or to invite
                              Them in the funeral prayer of sunni muslims - all this
                              Is not permissible. These people (shias) curse the
                              Dead one among the sunni muslims.

                              Written by: muhammad abdus-sakoor farooqi, mohtamim,
                              Dar-ul-mobaaligheen, lucknow (india).

                              (2) the shia denial of the companionship ( ) of hazrat
                              Abu bakar and levelling of false allegations (
                              Slander) against hazrat aaisha (r.a.) the beloved wife
                              Of the prophet (saw) render them kafir. Allama ibn
                              Abbidin writes: there is no doubt about a person being
                              Kafir who launches a charge against the chastity of
                              Hazrat aaisha (ra) or denies the companionship ( ) of
                              Hazrat abu bakar." (shami, vol. Ii, p. 294).

                              The same allama at another place in this very book has
                              Written that shiah are murtads (apostates) and liable
                              To be killed. (shami, vol. Ii, p. 683).

                              "whoso believes in the theory of tahrif in the qur'an
                              Is a murtad and kafir. He cannot be equated with the
                              "people of the book" (i.e. the jews and christians).
                              It is unlawful ( ) to have inter-marriages with them
                              Or develop any other relationships. Almighty allah has
                              Said in the qur'an:

                              "those who resist allah and his apostle will be among
                              Those most humiliated. . . . . "thou wilt not find any
                              People who believe in allah and the last day, loving
                              Those who resist allah and his apostles even through
                              They were their fathers or their sons or their
                              Brothers or their kindred." (58:20 & 22).

                              "hence one should not participate in any of the
                              Celebrations of the shiah whether these relate to
                              Marriage ceremonies or occasions of grief like
                              Funderals etc. Shias having such beliefs are not only
                              Kafirs but even worse than kafirs."

                              Riazuddin, mufti, dar-ul-uloom, deoband (india)
                              19-safar 1348 h.

                              (3) "the subject matter of the question, i.e. rafida (
                              Shias are also called rafida which means deniers of
                              The caliphate of hazrat abu bakar, umar and usman) are
                              Not only murtad, (apostate) kafir and outside the pale
                              Of islam but are also enemies of islam and muslims to
                              Such a degree that the others would found wanting in
                              This field. Muslims should cut-off all islamic ties
                              And relationships with them especially the bonds of
                              Marriage because by doing so either one indulges in
                              Zina and other obscene things himself or leads others
                              On this path (of evil)."

                              -muhammad murtaza ahsan, nazim, deptt. Of education
                              Dar-ul-uloom, deoband (india).

                              (4) "there are various sects among shia rafida ( );
                              Their different beliefs and conceptions are batil
                              (falsehood). Among them some are those whose kufr is
                              Manifest such as ithna ashrah. As such it is not
                              Permissible to enter into matrimonial bonds with them;
                              Rather all sorts of islamic ties and affinities with
                              Them should be discarded."

                              -muhammad ezza ali, modaris adab and fiqh,
                              Dar-ul-uloom, deoband (india).

                              (5) "those people who posses the above-mentioned
                              Beliefs, they are certainly kafir and outside the pale
                              Of islam."

                              (6) "ithna ashrah shias are kafirs & murtads because
                              They believe that qur'an has been altered."

                              -mufti muhammad abdul aziz, khateeb jamia masjid,
                              Gujranwala.

                              (7) "one who puts faith that the qur'an has been
                              Subjected to tahrif (alteration) is a kafir without
                              Any shadow of doubt."

                              Shabir ahmad usmani, shaikh al-tafsir, dar-ul-uloom,
                              Deoband and jamia islamia dabaeel, gujrat (india).

                              (8) "the aforesaid great alim has rightly said that
                              One who levells the charge of tahrif in the qur'an is
                              A kafir without any shadow of doubt."

                              -maulana muhammad chariq, al-madris, anwar-ul-uloom,
                              Gujranwala.

                              (9) "shais because of their (peculiar) beliefs are
                              Outside the pale of islam and as such kafirs. Hence
                              Islamic bonds like (i) marriage with them (ii) using
                              Their zabiah (iii) saying the funeral prayer of their
                              Dead ones (iv) allowing them to participate in the
                              Funeral prayer of sunni muslims (v) making them
                              Sharers in the qurbani i.e. sacrifical animals on
                              Did-ul-azha (vi) making them witness in the nikah of
                              Sunni muslims (vii) accepting their monetary
                              Contributions for the building of masjid --- all these
                              Things are not permissible (in shari'ah) and should be
                              Given up forthwith. Anyone who does not do so is
                              Outside the pale of islam and is similarly a kafir
                              Like the shias.

                              -masud ahmad, naib mufti, dar-ul-uloom, deoband
                              (india).

                              (10) "shias are in fact kafirs because besides qadfz (
                              -(slander) of umm-ul-momineen and reviling of
                              Shaikhain (i.e. hazrat abu bakar and hazrat umar) they
                              Believe in tahrif in the qur'an."

                              -muhammad kaffiat ullah khan, mufti azam hind, delhi.

                              In exposition of the above fatawa declaring shias as
                              Kafirs by the leading ulama of hind, maulana muhammad
                              Hasib umari, fellow, dar-ul-mobalagheen, lucknow
                              Writes in the appendix as under :-

                              Athna ashrah shia rafida being kafirs and outside the
                              Pale of islam is proved from a variety of reasons.

                              Allama bahrul uloom farangi mahal earlier used to
                              Issue fatwa to the

                              First proof of shia's kufr: their first proof of kufr
                              Is established by the fact that they subscribe to the
                              Doctrine of tahrif in the qur'an.* all the shias
                              Belonging to previous generations or present
                              Generation, their imams and various shia sects are
                              Unanimous of their belief in this regard. Hence shias
                              Are kafirs on the basis of ijma (concensus of the
                              Ummah).

                              1 imam kazi ayaz maliki (died 544 h) writes in the
                              Context of kufr by concensus: "similarly one is also a
                              Kafir who denied the qur'an or any word contained in
                              It or believed in tahrif in the present copy of the
                              Qur'an...." (shafa kazi p. 364).

                              2 allama bahrul-uloom lucknowi (died 1235 h) writes
                              That "one who subscribes to the view of tahrif in the
                              Qur'an is a kafir" (euwatah al-rahmoot, p. 617).

                              3 imam ali al-qari (died 1014 h) writes in the context
                              Of kufr by concensus: "whoso denies the whole of the
                              Qur'an or one surah or one ayah (of the qur'an) is a
                              Kafir." (sharah fiqh akbar, p. 205, 1348 h).

                              4 shaikh abdul qadir jilani, mufti azam, baghdad (died
                              561 h) has termed shias as kafirs and outside the pale
                              Of islam in the context of their blatant beliefs like
                              Tahrif in the qur'an, the belief that their twelve
                              Imams are infallible and sinless ( ) and the insult
                              They heaped on the angels etc." (ghaniatutailbeen, p.
                              320).

                              5 ccording to shia cources there are more than 2000
                              Ahadith which without any misgiving or duplicity show
                              Tahrif in the qur'an; these are no less than the
                              Number of ahadith vindicating the doctrine of imamate.
                              Fasilil khatab fi tahrif kitab rab-al-rabbab, by
                              Udoodullah hussain noori taqi tabrisi. P. 339).

                              Shias are of the view that hazrat ali collected the
                              Whole of the qur'an which comprised of seventeen
                              Thousand ayahs (usul-al-kafi) p. 671). Whereas the
                              Present qur'an contains only 6136 ayahs (fasilil
                              Khatab p. 104). That is to say that 10.864 ayahs have
                              Been excluded by the sahabah from the present qur'an.
                              In addition, the shi'i world is bereft from the
                              Original qur'an because the same has been taken to the
                              Care by imam mahdi since centuries. (fasilil khatab,
                              P. 97).

                              What a tradegy that the shia imam has disappeared with
                              The real qur'an and is not returning the same for the
                              Guidance of the shia people. . . . . . .

                              Second proof of shia's kufr: according to shia belief,
                              Allah is subjected to bada ( ). That is to say that
                              The knowledge of allah changes from time to time
                              Because allah is not fully aware of the causes and
                              Their consequences.

                              Al-kulaini the great muhaddith of the shia has devoted
                              A complete independent chapter of his book al-kafi
                              Under the caption of al-bada. Under this chapter he
                              Relates a number of stories narrated on the authority
                              Of the imams, preserved from sins, as the shia suppose
                              Them to be. Or these stories is one related on the
                              Authority of al-rayyan ibn al-salt, who says that he
                              Heard al-rada (ali ibn musa, the eighth imam according
                              To them) says: "allah did not ever send a prophet but
                              That he should proclaim wine as forbidden, and that he
                              Should as well as recognise bada (the proposition that
                              If a new circmstance should intervene it may cause
                              Allah to alter his determination) for allah" (al-kafi,
                              Book of tawhid, chapter on bada edn. Iran, vol. I p.
                              148).

                              Third proof of shia's kufr: the shia believe in
                              Revilling the shaikhain (ie.e hazrat abu bakr and
                              Hazrat umar) and launch a charge aginst the chastity
                              Of hazrat aisha (r.a.).

                              The comiplers of fatawa alamgiri (a volumnions book of
                              Juristic decisions) write in this context: "a shia
                              Rafida who curses and reviles hazrat abu bakr and
                              Hazrat umar is a kafir. Similarly one who does not
                              Accept the caliphate of these two caliphs of
                              Rasul-allah is also a cafir." (vol. Iii, p. 294).

                              It is stated in radul-mukhtar vol. Iii p. 406, sharah
                              Fiqqah-akbar p. 86 and tahawi ale maraqi p. 198 ahmad
                              Bin muhammad who died in 1213 h:

                              "anyone who launches a charge against the chastity of
                              Hazrat aisha (r.a) and denies the fact that her
                              Father, hazrat abu bakr was not a sahabi is
                              Undoubtedly a kafir."

                              It is incumbent on muslims to call shia rafida as
                              Kafirs. This is said on the authority of fatwa
                              Alimgari where it is stated:

                              "to call shia rafida as kafirs is binding on the basis
                              Of their kafiric (heathen or un-islamic) beliefs.
                              These people are outside the pale of islam. They fall
                              In the category of murtadeens (apostates) and should
                              Be dealt accordingly. Anyone who does not call them
                              Kafir is an irreligious person and by the same token a
                              Kafir like the shia." (vol. I, p. 92).

                              Fourth proof of shia's kufr: the shias believe that
                              Their imams are infallible and sinless -- attributes &
                              Qualities which are reserved only for the prophets and
                              Messengers of allah. What to say of twelve imams of
                              The shias, persons who are much higher in status,
                              Piety and nearness to allah like hazrat abu bakar,
                              Hazrat umar and wives of the holy prophet (saw) cannot
                              Even be called sinless.

                              It is unfortunate that some of the sunni alims out of
                              Sheer ignorance think that the shias believe in the
                              Finality of the prophethood of muhammad and as such
                              Invite them is their conventions and conferences
                              Whereas the fact is that shias are openly the
                              Transgressors of the finaity of prophethood. Shah
                              Waliullah delhvi inhis book p. 224 unvells the curtain
                              By saying, "actually they do not believe in the
                              Finality of prophethood of muhammad though they
                              Profess so verbally.". . . Shia belief in 'imamate' is
                              Nothing but an extensions of the prophethood which of
                              Course if followed under a different name. But what is
                              Then in name when the intent and content is the same!
                              ! !

                              Appendix-ii

                              (contributed by maulana abbas mujtahi, fellow,
                              Dar-ul-mobaaligheen, lucknow).

                              "undoubtedly rafida (and shias) are not muslims."
                              (al-fazl by ibn hazm hanbali, vol. Ii p. 780,
                              Published in 1341 h).

                              "these people (i.e. rafida and shia) have no right in
                              The fay (i.e. property taken from the enemy without a
                              Formal war) of muslims." (shafa-kazi ayyaz maliki).

                              "those people (shia) by consensus ( ) and without any
                              Dispute are kafirs." (mazahir haq, p. 84). Shaikh
                              Muhammad bin yusuf, shaikh ahmad bin younus, imam
                              Abdullah bin idress (died 192 h) were all agreed on
                              The kufr of shia rafida.

                              Three ahadith of the prophet (saw)

                              (1) "in the latter times, a group will appear who will
                              Be called rafida. These people would have given up
                              Islam". (masnad ahmad, vol. I. P. 103).

                              (2) "after me there will emerge a group who will be
                              Known by the name of rafida. Hence if you get hold of
                              Them, kill them because they are mushriks
                              (polythesists) . . . . . . . . . . . . . -- these
                              People will abuse abu bakar and umar and whoso abuses
                              My sahabah, will be accursed by allah, angels and all
                              The human beings." (dar-ul-kutni).

                              (3) "a group will emerge soon who will abuse my
                              Sahabah and endeavour to find faults with them. As
                              Such you should not keep their company, nor dine with
                              Them nor have marriage relationships with them from
                              Either side. You should not greet them either. The
                              Curse of allah be upon them." (guniatutalibeen, p.
                              179).

                              Note: the above fatwa was published long ago by the
                              Mohtamim (principal) dar-ul-mobealigheen, lucknow
                              (india). This is the english rendering of the
                              Aforesaid fatwa for the benefit of those readers in
                              Africa and slsewhere who do not know urdu language and
                              Are being captivated by the agents of khomeni who is
                              Being projected as the standard-bearer of islamic
                              Revolution, founder of islamic system of government,
                              Great leader, guide and benefactor of the muslim
                              Masses. The strange and shocking thing is that some of
                              The so called islamic group among the sunni muslims
                              Have allied themselves to the cause of khomeni without
                              Bothering to know the fundamentals of shia religion!

                              The fatwa presented in the forgoing pages has been
                              Given by hanafi ulama mostly belonging to deoband
                              School thouth. The brelvi school of thought among
                              Ahle-sunnah in indo-pakistan has a soft corner for the
                              Shias and invite them in their meetings and
                              Conferences. They should ponder over the following
                              Fatwa (declaration) of their own chief which merits
                              Serious attention of both lay muslims and ulama among
                              This group and then make amends accordingly:

                              Maulana ahmad raza khan brelvi, founder of brelvi
                              School of thought among the sunni muslims of
                              Indo-pakistan sub-continent has declared in his fatwa
                              (1320 h) that rafida by and large are kuffar and
                              Murtadeen (apostates). The meat of animals slaughtered
                              By them is carrion and entering into matrimonial
                              Relationship with them is not only harm (unlawful) but
                              Zina (fornication) pure and simple. God forbid, if man
                              (husband) if rafida and woman (wife) a sunni muslim it
                              Is a source of incurring great wrath of allah. If man
                              (husband) is a sunni muslim and women (wife) belonging
                              To such accursed people (rafida) even then nikah will
                              Not be valid and it will be a mere zina; the
                              Offsprings will be product of zina and will not be
                              Entitled to any share in the property of so-called
                              Father even if the children are brought out as sunnis
                              Because according shari'ah children born out of zina
                              Are not ascribed to any father. Similarly the woman
                              Will neither be entitled to any inheritence nor to
                              Dowry because one who offers hereself for zina has no
                              Concern with mahr (dowry). A rafida cannot claim any
                              Inheritence even from his close relations like father,
                              Son, mother or daughter etc. What to say of a sunni
                              Muslim even a non-muslim and what is more even a
                              Rafida cannot have any right of inheritence in the
                              Property of his co-religionist. It is absolutely
                              Unlawful to have any social relationships or dealing
                              With rafida, men or women, learned or unlettered.
                              Whosoever considered them muslim even after being
                              Informed about the beliefs of these accursed people or
                              Doubts about their being kuffar, he is himself a kafir
                              And irreligious person by consensus of all the
                              Jurists. Such a person is to be treated at per with
                              Rafida and subjected to same rules and regulations. It
                              Is binding on muslims to listen to this fatwa with
                              Rapt attention and become true sunni muslims to listen
                              To this fatwa with rapt attention and become true
                              Sunni muslims by acting upon it with faith and
                              Conviction."

                              The same maulana at another place has observed that
                              The situation (of social intercourse with shias)
                              Arises when iman (faith) has dwindled and love of
                              Allah and rasul-allah has depared from the heart,
                              Almighty allah says in the qur'an: "and if the devil
                              Cause thee to forget, sit not, after the remembrance,
                              With the congregation of wrongdoers." (6:68).

                              Rasul-allah (saw) is reported to have said: "keep away
                              From them and do not let them to come near you lest
                              They mislead you and land you in trouble. ( )".

                              There is a specific hadith about rafida: "a sect is
                              Going to emerge which will have a bad connotation.
                              They will be called rafida. They will come neither on
                              Friday nor in the congregational prayers. They will
                              Villify the first generation (of ummah). You should
                              Neither keep their company nor dine with them, nor
                              Have matrimomial relationship with them. If they fall
                              Ill do not go to greet them and if they die do not
                              Participate in their funeral prayers".

                              Now-a-days rafidas generally deny the fundementals of
                              Deen and (as such) are definitely renegades ( ). None
                              Of their men or women can lawfully be married to a
                              Sunni male or femal. Maulana ahmad raza khan brelvi
                              Ahd further said that (tazia mourning procession) as
                              Bidah, not permissible and haram.

                              Ifta of other brelvi ulama

                              1. People of such a sect who believe hadhrat abu bakr
                              Siddiqi, (ra), hadhrat umar (ra) and hadhrat usman
                              (r.a) as hypocrates, and holy quran as an-authentic
                              And muta which by census of ummah is haraam (unlawful)
                              As lawful, such a sect. Should definitly be declared
                              As a non-muslim minority. To consider them as muslims
                              Is an error.

                              Molvi muhammad ramadhan
                              Mufti, dar-ul-uloom hizbul ahnaf, lahore (pakistan)

                              2. Those people who possess such beliefs as have been
                              Mentioned in the istiftah (question) of tanzeem
                              Ahle-sunnah northern areas, indus & kohistan
                              (pakistan) -- undoubtedly such people are outside the
                              Pale of islam and are to be counted among the
                              Non-muuslims. They would be declared non-muslims on
                              The basis of their being irrelgious and deniers of god
                              ( ). Mulhid ( ) and zeendiq ( ) are those people who
                              Outwardly take the name of fundamentals of deen but
                              Are deniers of the same like qadianis (ahmadis) and
                              Other people of their ilk. Those who claim to have
                              Belief in allah, rasul-allah (s.a.w.) and shari'ah but
                              At the same time openly show disregard for them, such
                              People in fact are outside the pale of islam. The
                              Ruling about them is that the government through
                              Ulama-e-deen should vindicate the truth before them so
                              That no excuse is left anymore. If they repent and
                              Make amends, it will be to their benefit; otherwise to
                              Finish (kill) them is also the duty of the islamic
                              Government. To declare them as a non-muslim minority
                              Will be meaningless.

                              Mufti ghulam sarwar qadiri,
                              Mumber central zakat council &
                              Mohtamim dar-ul-uloom ghosia, gulberg, lahore.

                              3. Any person or group who taunts regarding the
                              Chastity of hadhrat aaisha (ra) is a denier of those
                              Verses of surah al-noor which vouchsafe the innocence
                              Of hadhrat asisha (r.a). And one who denies the quran
                              Is a kafir. Anyone does not consider the present quran
                              As the word of allah he denies this verse of the quran

                              And a denier of any verse of the quran is a kafir. And
                              Masoom (infallible & sinless) are only the angels and
                              The prophets and the caliphate is just and right
                              Position and the superiority of the caliphs is in the
                              Same order in which they succeeded. It is stated in
                              (p. 107): "it is wrong and misleading to call
                              Hadhrat's abu bakr, umar & usman (r.a) as usurpers
                              Because they themselves never aspired or secured
                              Caliphate rather the muhajireen and ansar unanimously
                              Elected them as caliph. Hadhrat ali (r.a) also got the
                              Oath of allegiance ( ) in public from the people.
                              Anyone who shows disrespect to sahaba and calls them
                              Astray puts himself under the curse of allah.

                              Ibn umar reported allah's messenger as saying, "when
                              You see people who revile my companions (sahabah) say,
                              May allah curse you and your mischief." (tirmidhi)

                              Abu said al-khudri reported the prophet (saw) saying,
                              "do not revile my companions, for if one of your
                              Contributed as much gold as uhud it would not amount
                              To as much as the mudd (i.e. about a kilo) of one of
                              The, or half of it." (bukhari & muslim)

                              Hence in the above stated istiftah, a person holding
                              False and misleading beliefs cannot be rightfully
                              Called a muslim. It is unlawful for muslims to keep
                              Connections with such a person or group or participate
                              In their gatherings and conventions. In obedience to
                              The command of the quran (6:68) ----- the muslims
                              Should expell such people from their society and do
                              Not keep any connection whatsoever with them.

                              Abdul latif, teacher, jamia nazimiah razvia, lahore
                              Last edited by dhak1yya; 29-04-08, 08:27 AM. Reason: changing from upper to lower case: please type in lowercase as posts all in capitals look very aggressive
                              Syed Alijan Jaffery Isphani (Ex.Shia)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Shia-Sunni Intermarriage

                                Originally posted by ALIJAN1001 View Post
                                What a answer, i told you that i was shia and i know much more than this, i challenge you if you find some this wrong, point out or accept this because this is from authenticated books of shia.
                                Just because you are an ex-Shia doesn't mean you know everything about them?. Maybe you have had a bad experience among the Shias.. don't generalize based on your personal experience. I know people who are Shias, give me sometime I will try to ask them the above questions..

                                Originally posted by ALIJAN1001
                                About fatwa against shia i already replied that in every era, ullma of ahlul-sunna give fatwa-e-kufur to shia, and for your information they are performing this salah after sunni imam at makkah and madina, it is totaly restructed to perform sallah after shai imam.

                                Hope answer the question.
                                So, you agree that they pray Salah SIDE by SIDE with Sunnis in Makkah in a prayer thats leaded by Sunnis. Therefore, they are Muslims. Kafirs shouldn't even be in Makkah, let alone praying inside it. Regarding praying behind Sunnis, we are also instructed not to pray behind Shia Imam, so, the logic applies both ways.

                                You and I don't have the authority to call someone praying inside Makkah and performing Hajj as kafirs. So, stop calling Shiites as kafirs, they have many actions thats un-Islamic, but that doesn't mean they are Kafirs. I hope you get the idea.
                                Last edited by irony; 29-04-08, 12:50 PM.

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