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'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

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    #16
    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

    Originally posted by Mintchocchip View Post
    I agree. Was going to write a huge reply to the OP but thought forget it.

    It really is disturbing that such a knowledgable person would not consider it a priority to educate his wife.

    Is this article for real??
    seems that way from I can find,there are a number of references online about the article and i found this copy of the article online.

    https://abdurrahman.org/2016/08/10/i...ykh-uthaimeen/

    the quote the sister posted is question #35 in the interview.

    I find this fact extremely shocking and brings many aspect of this man into question.

    seems blatantly hypocritical to be engaged in dawah and teaching (to men only,of course)when your not looking after your own wife's education.

    Comment


      #17
      Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

      [MENTION=113221]Samsandman[/MENTION] [MENTION=145928]Mintchocchip[/MENTION] [MENTION=122131]Stoic Believer[/MENTION]

      Idk if i should agree with you or be upset at the fact so many people think being a housewoman is not a fulltime job..

      Learning arabic for me has been a huge struggle i still dont know it, (but thats because i dont know how to speak it or understand it, i learned writing it in 2 hours or so)

      Anyway my point is, maybe she was too busy with the household to take on studies Allahu alam

      But then again she didnt have to take a class he could have just taught her at home, or she vould have leatned it along with helping her kids with homework since they learn it in school

      Wel I'm confused now
      يَٰٓأَيُّهَا ٱلنَّاسُ ٱعْبُدُوا۟ رَبَّكُمُ ٱلَّذِى خَلَقَكُمْ وَٱلَّذِينَ مِن قَبْلِكُمْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ

      O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous

      Surah Al Baqarah ayah 21

      Comment


        #18
        Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

        Originally posted by aynina View Post
        [MENTION=113221]Samsandman[/MENTION] [MENTION=145928]Mintchocchip[/MENTION] [MENTION=122131]Stoic Believer[/MENTION]

        Idk if i should agree with you or be upset at the fact so many people think being a housewoman is not a fulltime job..

        Learning arabic for me has been a huge struggle i still dont know it, (but thats because i dont know how to speak it or understand it, i learned writing it in 2 hours or so)

        Anyway my point is, maybe she was too busy with the household to take on studies Allahu alam

        But then again she didnt have to take a class he could have just taught her at home, or she vould have leatned it along with helping her kids with homework since they learn it in school

        Wel I'm confused now
        I understand that housewife and raising children is a full time job(and an honorable one) but YOU can read and write at least one language,she couldn't read and write her own native language(arabic) and pretty safe to assume that she didn't speak,read or write english either.

        She was completely and totally illiterate in her own native tongue for the majority of her life.

        sadly I've come to learn that this isn't uncommon among some cultures, Many aid workers in Canada were shocked to learn that 40% of the syrian refugees that came to Canada are totally illiterate as well. I'm not saying they can't read or write english, they can't read or write their primary and sometimes ONLY language,arabic.

        yes we all know that The Prophet sallahu alayhi wasalam was illiterate but the majority of the companions were not and The Nabi sallahu alayhu wasalam made learning to read a recommended act and would ransom mushrikeen if they taught sahaba to read,that's how valued literacy was,despite the fact paper was rare. the ransom was not to teach 1 person to read either but 10.

        Even the Quran puts an emphasis on literacy. Would Allah swt order believers to write down contracts if reading and writing were optional?

        Comment


          #19
          Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

          lol typical ummah forum, always getting the wrong end of the stick and seeing the glass half empty.
          We're not all wowed at the fact that she was illiterate, all of us here can read and write. Two generations ago this was not the case, use your brains and apply her situation to today.

          We have women brought to the west from their home countries who can't read, write or speak english. Their husbands don't bother enrolling them at a school. This is just one example. So instead of backbiting the sheikh who is better than most of you, how about you open your mind a little and understand the time/generation that she was living in and in what state a country like saudi was in back then. Also why are you some of you shocked, she had a good husband. There are men treating their wives like slaves and punching bags but you guys are angry at a sheikh who taught his wife to read and write?
          شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
          فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
          وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
          ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by aynina View Post
            [MENTION=113221]Samsandman[/MENTION] [MENTION=145928]Mintchocchip[/MENTION] [MENTION=122131]Stoic Believer[/MENTION]

            Idk if i should agree with you or be upset at the fact so many people think being a housewoman is not a fulltime job..

            Learning arabic for me has been a huge struggle i still dont know it, (but thats because i dont know how to speak it or understand it, i learned writing it in 2 hours or so)

            Anyway my point is, maybe she was too busy with the household to take on studies Allahu alam

            But then again she didnt have to take a class he could have just taught her at home, or she vould have leatned it along with helping her kids with homework since they learn it in school

            Wel I'm confused now
            Like I said, mixed feelings. I understand housework and kids is a lot of work. But over all those years she couldn't even read?

            But of course, I don't know the whole story. And I still respect the Sheikh immensely.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

              Originally posted by Samsandman View Post
              Were not talking about her not having a PhD,this is basic,,everyday, literacy.

              This opens up a huge can of worms about misogyny and oppression of women.

              how is a mother supposed to teach her children to read if she can't? a child's education starts long before they ever leave the house for school.
              with young children the mother is the first and primary educator,children should have the some basics taught by their mother. I could count,knew the alphabet and had some reading skills before I ever entered public education as that is considered normal and advantageous.
              how is she supposed to better herself educationally and islamically when she can't read her own name?

              What kind of example does this set for young girls? your only value is to push out babies? your only value is waiting on your husband and being available for breeding?

              This quote is not sweet or enlightening or inspirational,it's very,very disturbing. The man was a scholar but couldn't bother to teach his own wife to read?
              \What kind of man is that?what kind of example is that? what kind of leader is that?

              That not part of the sunnah at all,in fact it goes against the sunnah.

              He can teach men from here, there and other places about the deen but can't educate his own wife? seriously?

              If you met a woman in her 30's,40's or 50's tomorrow and she couldn't read but her husband had a PhD what would be your response?
              I would be shocked and horrified. I would do everything I could possibly do to see that that women got immediate help in learning to read.
              It would be top priority.

              when the whites enslaved africans and brought them to the caribbean and southern states to be slaves it was against the law to teach them to read as
              an educated slave was considered a dangerous slave and an ignorant slave is a submissive slave. this immediately came to mind when I read the quote above.

              I'm actually pretty shocked that some sisters approve of this and think it's somehow sweet that he ALLOWED her to learn to read till after her children were grown.

              Whole thing has the foul stench of jahilliyyah and oppression of women hanging about it and there's a part of me that hopes it not true but sadly it probably is.

              If the sheikh had married this women,found out she couldn't read,taught her to read and then had children that would be inspirational.

              Reading is a highly recommended bordering on wajib in islam,not optional,not if you feel like it or when you get around to it.

              universal literacy is one of the goals of islam as can be seen from hadith and seerah.
              First of all, this is saudi we are talking about. Women were not even allowed to drive let alone anything else especially in those times. Understand the cultural differences.

              Secondly, the prophet :saw: was illiterate. Being illiterate doesn't mean you don't know anything. Arab culture and many others used to emphasise memorising more than writing/reading.

              Thirdly, she did actually learn from him, she mentions it in the interview. He didn't neglect his family unlike a lot of those in the dawah field today.

              Fourthly, she didn't have one or two kids, she had many. Where was she supposed to find the time?

              Unfortunately in a lot of people's minds the only value a woman has is to serve her husband and have children. That's what the whole thread is highlighting.
              شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
              فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
              وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
              ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

              Comment


                #22
                Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
                First of all, this is saudi we are talking about. Women were not even allowed to drive let alone anything else especially in those times. Understand the cultural differences.

                Secondly, the prophet :saw: was illiterate. Being illiterate doesn't mean you don't know anything. Arab culture and many others used to emphasise memorising more than writing/reading.

                Thirdly, she did actually learn from him, she mentions it in the interview. He didn't neglect his family unlike a lot of those in the dawah field today.

                Fourthly, she didn't have one or two kids, she had many. Where was she supposed to find the time?

                Unfortunately in a lot of people's minds the only value a woman has is to serve her husband and have children. That's what the whole thread is highlighting.
                Maybe this applies to saudi culture and not arab culture as Aisha ra could read and write and as far as I can tell ALL of the Nabi's wives could red and write,Fatima ra could read and write and there were a number of important and influential female scholars in the early days of Islam. literacy and scholarship go hand and hand,you will be very hard pressed to name even ONE islamic male scholar that is illiterate, there is a reason that,Imams,Abu Hanifa,Ahmed,Abu Dawood,Nisa'i,Malik An Nawawi,Ibn Kathir,Bukhari,At Tabari,Ibn Al Qayyim, etc are famous and household names,They WROTE books.

                Arab culture and Islamic culture are not synonymous. lots of arabs are not even muslim keep in mind.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                  Originally posted by aynina View Post
                  [MENTION=113221]Samsandman[/MENTION] [MENTION=145928]Mintchocchip[/MENTION] [MENTION=122131]Stoic Believer[/MENTION]

                  Idk if i should agree with you or be upset at the fact so many people think being a housewoman is not a fulltime job..

                  Learning arabic for me has been a huge struggle i still dont know it, (but thats because i dont know how to speak it or understand it, i learned writing it in 2 hours or so)

                  Anyway my point is, maybe she was too busy with the household to take on studies Allahu alam

                  But then again she didnt have to take a class he could have just taught her at home, or she vould have leatned it along with helping her kids with homework since they learn it in school

                  Wel I'm confused now
                  She was raising 8 kids, his schedule was full from morning till night, she says he never had any time to rest.
                  There simply was no time also she didn't ask to join a school.
                  This was a long time ago, I don't know why you guys are so shocked. This is life, there are people who are illiterate for various reasons, being able to read and write is a privilege.
                  Scholars are human too, why do we criticise them so much and turn a blind eye to clear oppressors.

                  It's only here that people expect the wives (families) of scholars to be some kind of walking miracle, and when we find out she doesn't know much, that she's just an average woman, we think "doesn't her husband teach her anything", then we start criticising him. We hold them up to unrealistic standards and have this weird idea in our heads that the families of scholars are perfect. At the end of the day it's a marriage like any other.

                  He had three daughters too, so obviously the problem was more the generation his wife was from and the lack of time.
                  شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                  فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                  وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                  ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                    U would be busy working day and night to serve a hypocrite kaffir tawagheet monarchy and government

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                      Originally posted by Samsandman View Post
                      Maybe this applies to saudi culture and not arab culture as Aisha ra could read and write and as far as I can tell ALL of the Nabi's wives could red and write,Fatima ra could read and write and there were a number of important and influential female scholars in the early days of Islam. literacy and scholarship go hand and hand,you will be very hard pressed to name even ONE islamic male scholar that is illiterate, there is a reason that,Imams,Abu Hanifa,Ahmed,Abu Dawood,Nisa'i,Malik An Nawawi,Ibn Kathir,Bukhari,At Tabari,Ibn Al Qayyim, etc are famous and household names,They WROTE books.

                      Arab culture and Islamic culture are not synonymous. lots of arabs are not even muslim keep in mind.
                      Of course but many in those times couldn't read and write, islam encouraged scholarship and writing/reading but that doesn't change the fact that those societies still memorised more than they ever wrote/read. Memorising is a big part of arab culture and other cultures in muslim countries. If it wasn't for their memory, how would the deen have reached us. They relied on memory, not books. Books came later.

                      Obviously things did change, islamic/secular education of women declined when people started misunderstanding the deen and putting their cultures first.
                      شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                      فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                      وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                      ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                        Originally posted by Abu julaybeeb View Post
                        U would be busy working day and night to serve a hypocrite kaffir tawagheet monarchy and government
                        what do you mean?
                        شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                        فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                        وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                        ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                          Originally posted by Samsandman View Post
                          Maybe this applies to saudi culture and not arab culture as Aisha ra could read and write and as far as I can tell ALL of the Nabi's wives could red and write,Fatima ra could read and write and there were a number of important and influential female scholars in the early days of Islam. literacy and scholarship go hand and hand,you will be very hard pressed to name even ONE islamic male scholar that is illiterate, there is a reason that,Imams,Abu Hanifa,Ahmed,Abu Dawood,Nisa'i,Malik An Nawawi,Ibn Kathir,Bukhari,At Tabari,Ibn Al Qayyim, etc are famous and household names,They WROTE books.

                          Arab culture and Islamic culture are not synonymous. lots of arabs are not even muslim keep in mind.
                          Brother you are totally spot on with your comments, and the Nabi Sallallahu alayhi wa salam and the companions were from Makkah and Madinah, which is now Saudi Arabia.
                          Last edited by LailaTheMuslim; 31-10-17, 09:42 PM.
                          وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                          And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                          أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                          Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


                          Please take a look at my travel booking website : https://destinationfindertravel.com/

                          Please take a look at my blog : http://thinkingmuslima.blogspot.co.uk/

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                            Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
                            She was raising 8 kids, his schedule was full from morning till night, she says he never had any time to rest.
                            There simply was no time also she didn't ask to join a school.
                            This was a long time ago, I don't know why you guys are so shocked. This is life, there are people who are illiterate for various reasons, being able to read and write is a privilege.
                            Scholars are human too, why do we criticise them so much and turn a blind eye to clear oppressors.

                            It's only here that people expect the wives (families) of scholars to be some kind of walking miracle, and when we find out she doesn't know much, that she's just an average woman, we think "doesn't her husband teach her anything", then we start criticising him. We hold them up to unrealistic standards and have this weird idea in our heads that the families of scholars are perfect. At the end of the day it's a marriage like any other.

                            He had three daughters too, so obviously the problem was more the generation his wife was from and the lack of time.
                            I can't believe you think literacy is privilege. That's an arrogant,jahil mentality.something that I would expect from christians a 1000 yrs ago but not from a muslimah in the 21st century.

                            even if she was married young at 14 or 16 thats still more than enough time for someone to teach here to read.

                            literacy for men women and all muslims is a basic right not a privilege. The Quran has been in written form since the khaliphate of Uthman ra for a reason. the Ahadeeth have been in written form for the better part of 1200 years for a reason.

                            A man that encourages his sons to learn to read but not his daughters IS an oppressor. Educated,literate woman are strong women. women are the primary educators of children so this is a rather
                            important subject.

                            I know I sound like a male feminist saying all this but these are some pretty basic rights,like food,clean water and shelter. No wonder the women of this ummah feel oppressed.
                            I'm surprised that it's a sister defending this behaviour.

                            And if you feel so strongly about literacy for women being a privilege than maybe you shouldn't be reading this,seems it's a privilege you don't deserve since you take it for granted.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                              It's not obligatory on the husband to ensure his wife is literate. Stop attacking the shaykh with your ignorance.
                              You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                              You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: 'investing' in your wife, an example from the life of sheikh ibn uthaymeen

                                Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
                                Of course but many in those times couldn't read and write, islam encouraged scholarship and writing/reading but that doesn't change the fact that those societies still memorised more than they ever wrote/read. Memorising is a big part of arab culture and other cultures in muslim countries. If it wasn't for their memory, how would the deen have reached us. They relied on memory, not books. Books came later.

                                Obviously things did change, islamic/secular education of women declined when people started misunderstanding the deen and putting their cultures first.
                                No, the Quran was written down by sahaba in the lifetime of the Prophet sallahu alayhi wasalam and was written in full in book form as they feared that to many huffaz were being killed in jihad and that it was endanger of being lost.
                                It was standardized in the reign of Uthman ra(a sahabi himself) and widely circulated in book form from then on.

                                google sana manuscripts,the written Quran has been around almost as long as Islam

                                Comment

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