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  • A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

    Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatu
    Bismillahir rahmaanir rahiim.

    This is going to be a strange post but I've found myself in an unique set of circumstances. So here it goes.

    Is it wrong of me to seek someone who is more pious than me? Well whats wrong with seeking a pious bride you may ask!
    I come from a religious family, living in one of the most Islamic countries in the world, if not the most. I've lived in the west and have quite a liberal mind Yet I constantly feel I'm surrounded by munafiqs (hypocrite) and khawarij (exiters, people who read Qur'an, prays all salaah yet doesn't understand the Qur'an & deen)

    My family believes I can be happy married to someone less pious as long as I can make her more pious after marriage but I want someone who is already more pious than me and will bring me closer to Allah (swt) through marriage. I have already tried speaking to a few under permissible circumstances to help them understand the deen but it seems impossible to eradicate 20+ years way of corrupted thinking by a few hours talk on what RasulAllah (saws) and the salaaf recommended in order to explain the Qur'an. Should I lower my standards and hope my future wifey will become more pious from observing me? I'm no where near perfect but I never dare question the will of Allah (swt) coz I consider that as shirk. I am aware of Qadr, I'm just curious if my point of view is correct ie to wait rather than change my goals. I'm also aware of the criterias used in seeking a
    potential bride.

    JazakumAllah khair
    Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
    Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
    That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

  • #2
    Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

    Waalaikumussalam
    My advice would be to find someone equally pious or even more inshaallah.
    Its very hard to change someone after marriage ,its difficult to go into marriage with that mindset.
    Also its hard for you to know the sincerity of a person as hoping or asking them to change can lead to other problems in marriage.

    Youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYk...dE4pHzSid7Lr0w

    **** Smiling won't cost you now is it ****

    Zawjati ,“Uhibbuki mithla mâ antê” “Uhibbuki kaifamâ kunteee”“Wa mahmâ kâna mahma sâra”

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

      There's nothing wrong with wanting someone to be more pious, though I don't think lowering your standards a little will hurt. I'm not saying go for someone who is not religious, but maybe someone who is pious but not the most knowledgeable person-yet is eager to learn more(this eagerness to learn is critical-which means even if she may not have had the opportunities to learn, she is very willing to). That way you can learn together. Considering the fact that you want her to be pious, don't lower your standards to someone who may be quite knowledgeable, though feels as if they know enough already, because we most likely don't and it will take time to reach that level of Deen if possible. I believe someone with that mindset is ignorant, because when you bring up something they don't know they act as if it is unimportant, therefore will bring you problems. You won't be able to grow together as you have stated.

      In terms of marrying someone more pious than you, there isn't a problem, but you must be prepared to have her tell you about things you may not know/disapprove of some things you/your family may do whether it be traditions/in gatherings/ habits etc. I'm not saying she'll do it harshly nor did I accuse you of being corrupt, I only mean that since she may know more than you, she'll probably notice things that are wrong in Islam that you or the people around you aren't aware of. Some men (I repeat, some. Put down your pitchforks and torches, guys)can't cope with a woman being more knowledgeable than them because it makes them feel inferior or they may feel attacked in the sense that 'she always finds faults in what I/we do!', therefore get defensive and cause problems. I'm not saying you're like this, but I don't know you so I just gave an example from the people around us. Some simply can't keep up, though considering you said that you wanted to learn more together, you should be just fine.

      It's good that you seem to be worried about piety in a future spouse, instead of looks, SES, money, cooking skills, nationality, etc. After all, the prophet said "(فاظفر بذات الدين تربت يداك[...]" "[...]So get the one who is religious and prosper (lit. may your hands cleave to the dust).”

      Make duaa to find the right spouse, and pray to Allah that he grants you with someone who will help you with your deen, and who you'll help with their deen. Pray that your marriage will be a blessing and not a trial, and that you two will be a means to get each other to paradise.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

        Bismillah
        Great advice ya sister,

        We have to first acknowledge that we all are miskin (simpletons) compared to the Prophets and salaf. :) So no matter how pious we are bound to have some flaws. To me flaws makes us human and robots, and without those flaws there would be no test to begin with.

        I couldn't agree more on the willingness to learn. Also, I wish people would criticize me lol! I know some men hate that but we can only take lessons from some of the best of the best. Imam Abu Hanifa Rahimullah encouraged his students to debate with him coz it would strengthen or clarify his own beliefs. I personally believe that women has a greater role than woman in breaking or building a nation. Because they are going to be a mother and a wife someday and can lead their children and hubby astray. I'm not sayin the role of woman is limited to that but these two roles becomes incumbent on a woman at some point in her life. Therefore it follows that she should be able to guide her family or risk destroying generations possibly. And what better book of guidance is there except the book of Allah Rabbul Izzah !

        I have a very demanding professional life (in hindsight I would have chosen a different career) and its very difficult for me to balance deen with dunya (but Alhamdulillah cannot complain) Thus a taleb of ilm is more than welcomed as a wifey.

        And like I said I'm well aware of the criterias a mumin should seek in a potential wifey. I personally don't have a preference over anything except deen (#1), good character and decent looks and good family background. But one needs to be observant to their parents as well. Imam Ahmed Hanbal Ash Shaibani Rahimullah did not marry while his mother was alive coz he felt he wouldn't be able to give due attention to his mother who gave up everything for him, While this is not a Sunnah we all know Imam Ahmed Rahimullah was possibly one of the most (if not the most) strictest follower of the Sunnah amongst all 4 imams and thus shows the importance of obligations to parents . I thoroughly despise women who fullfull all 4 Sunnah criteria of marriage yet think each other inlaws have no place in their lives.

        lastly [email protected] your cooking skill comment. I guess you have had some bad experiences haha.

        JazakAllah khairan
        Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
        Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
        That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

          Originally posted by Dr. Blitz View Post
          lastly [email protected] your cooking skill comment. I guess you have had some bad experiences haha.

          JazakAllah khairan
          Not me personally, but I know some mothers in law who are adamant that her son's wife must be a kitchen queen, even if it means lowering the standard of Deen, which is very disappointing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

            .
            Last edited by _Sapphire; 09-09-17, 12:45 PM. Reason: Double post

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

              Hmmm.. as long as you're open minded and will actually listen to her and are willing to change then I don't see much of an issue..
              "East, west, south, or north makes little difference. No matter what your destination, just be sure to make every journey a journey within. If you travel within, you’ll travel the whole wide world and beyond." - Rule 9. - The Forty Rules of Love.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                :salams:

                I would have thought this is a normal goal for a 'pious' man who is very smart in choosing a wife that has a zeal for religion. His house, his money, his offsprings all his possessions will be looked after well by a good fearing woman. That's a dream for a man, it creates a harmonious relationship.

                The problem is you can never tell the difference. A person can be knowledgeable but deprived from taqwa. Who wants a person that doesn't act on their knowledge, the knowledge becomes futile.

                It's always a good start to tell these families what you are looking for and what your expectations are. Wanting someone pious is a big expectation, it's as though you're wanting paradise on earth.

                It won't hurt to give someone on your level a chance. Besides, I thought pious women would want men much more pious themselves as they are the amir of the house.

                What really matters is her intention. Why does she want to be pious or more God fearing. Some girls think this is a criteria for marriage, if that's the case their mentality is wrong. The passion for religion has to be instilled in their hearts before marriage.

                As said already, you can't change someone. Don't try to as it will cause tension in the marriage.

                Nothing is impossible, but think about what you are offering to your pious potential.
                'Whatever it be wherein ye differ, the decision thereof is with Allah: such is Allah my Lord: In Him I trust, and to Him I turn.' The Holy Qu'ran Al Shura (Consultation)

                So, which of the favours of your lord will you deny? ~ Surah Ar Rahman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                  Its not good to try to change the person you are going to marry but I am certain that through your influence they might want to change. Anything is possible. If you hold out to find the perfect woman then you might be waiting your entire life. A lot of people confuse what is expected of them from their community with what is expected of them from religion and I find that when they take out that community part of their lives they are more open to becoming a better muslim.
                  My mother grew up in a town with no muslims and probably didn't even know what islam was until she met my dad who comes from a community with many rules and yet they still got married and my mother is one of the best muslims I know, if not the best.
                  One of my friends also told me about someone she knows who was surrounded by muslim people and swore that she would never become a muslim and yet shes a very pious muslim now.
                  I am not saying that you should marry someone who isn't muslim but I just wanted to give you examples of people in extreme situations who managed to change their entire lives.
                  If you cant find a very pious wife then I think that you should try to find someone who is a good person and has a very good heart and inshallah you and Allah will inspire her to become more pious.
                  Also I wouldn't straight up demand for someone who is more religious then you. You seem like you really care about religion so I wouldn't downplay how religious you are because some women might not want to be with a man that they think is less religious then them. There are a lot of guys who do whatever they want before marriage and then when they want to get married they want an innocent flower of a girl. You don't want to come off as one of those guys if your not like them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                    Originally posted by _Sapphire View Post
                    Not me personally, but I know some mothers in law who are adamant that her son's wife must be a kitchen queen, even if it means lowering the standard of Deen, which is very disappointing.

                    They just want their sons to be well-fed. ;) What is wrong with that?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                      Bismillah.

                      What do u mean by open minded? There is only one version of Qur'an, one ulemma consensus (ignore Hanbali vs Hanafi vs Maliki vs Shafii, we are all following the one Sunnah.) It is easy to make a spouse listen to someone - just show their mistakes in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah. The willingness to change is only for the sake of Allah Rabbul Alamin. Making your spouse happy is His commandment and if necessary any changes required to do so should follow without any debates. Everything comes into perspective when one becomes aware of what marriage in Islam signifies and what responsibilities it contains.

                      Eg I have friends from undergrad who refuses to do hijab or abstain from pork/alcohol and argues that those laws are for ancient times. This is shirk, as theyare questioning the divine will and Allah (swt) knows best. Surely Allah (swt) who created time and the heavens and the earth knows what changes occurs in each generation. I don't mean you personally believe in this but its just an example of what can happen when one wants to use the limited capability of human rationale and intelligence to decipher the reasons behind the laws of Allah (swt)

                      Originally posted by HealerofWorlds View Post
                      Hmmm.. as long as you're open minded and will actually listen to her and are willing to change then I don't see much of an issue..
                      Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
                      Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
                      That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                        MashaAllah TabarakAllah. Great response brother. You have my standing ovation. May Allah Az Zawajal shower you and your family with barakah :)

                        The problem is you can never tell the difference. A person can be knowledgeable but deprived from taqwa. Who wants a person that doesn't act on their knowledge, the knowledge becomes futile. - In my personal opinion is this the reason why our umma is in pieces. I've seen many scholars wasting time debating between themselves for personal fame & glory when they should be using that time to spread ilm. Imam Shafi'i Rahimullah refused to debate with people unless it brought about a change in their lives positively and he would pray before every debate so that his opponent is right and sees the truth. Now that is real Taqwa we should all aspire to have.

                        Nothing is impossible, but think about what you are offering to your pious potential. - Indeed. One must raise their ranks in the eyes of their Rabb before they can expect someone pious.


                        Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
                        :salams:

                        I would have thought this is a normal goal for a 'pious' man who is very smart in choosing a wife that has a zeal for religion. His house, his money, his offsprings all his possessions will be looked after well by a good fearing woman. That's a dream for a man, it creates a harmonious relationship.

                        The problem is you can never tell the difference. A person can be knowledgeable but deprived from taqwa. Who wants a person that doesn't act on their knowledge, the knowledge becomes futile.

                        It's always a good start to tell these families what you are looking for and what your expectations are. Wanting someone pious is a big expectation, it's as though you're wanting paradise on earth.

                        It won't hurt to give someone on your level a chance. Besides, I thought pious women would want men much more pious themselves as they are the amir of the house.

                        What really matters is her intention. Why does she want to be pious or more God fearing. Some girls think this is a criteria for marriage, if that's the case their mentality is wrong. The passion for religion has to be instilled in their hearts before marriage.

                        As said already, you can't change someone. Don't try to as it will cause tension in the marriage.

                        Nothing is impossible, but think about what you are offering to your pious potential.
                        Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
                        Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
                        That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                          Great response, sister.

                          A lot of people confuse what is expected of them from their community with what is expected of them from religion and I find that when they take out that community part of their lives they are more open to becoming a better muslim. - Our communities are infected with bidaa of all sorts. It is sad that we learn about deen from our community more often than formal education as a child. Our kids NEED to learn Arabic. All bidaa's would be eliminated if one put the time and effort to read the Qur'an and hadiths and tafsir in their original form. I wish I got one! As a result our kids may ignore the best role models of our umma and instead follow miley hilton kardashian and the rest (audhubillah). Well done, so called muslim culture & society!

                          There are a lot of guys who do whatever they want before marriage and then when they want to get married they want an innocent flower of a girl. You don't want to come off as one of those guys if your not like them
                          Originally posted by aelmo View Post
                          Its not good to try to change the person you are going to marry but I am certain that through your influence they might want to change. Anything is possible. If you hold out to find the perfect woman then you might be waiting your entire life. A lot of people confuse what is expected of them from their community with what is expected of them from religion and I find that when they take out that community part of their lives they are more open to becoming a better muslim.
                          My mother grew up in a town with no muslims and probably didn't even know what islam was until she met my dad who comes from a community with many rules and yet they still got married and my mother is one of the best muslims I know, if not the best.
                          One of my friends also told me about someone she knows who was surrounded by muslim people and swore that she would never become a muslim and yet shes a very pious muslim now.
                          I am not saying that you should marry someone who isn't muslim but I just wanted to give you examples of people in extreme situations who managed to change their entire lives.
                          If you cant find a very pious wife then I think that you should try to find someone who is a good person and has a very good heart and inshallah you and Allah will inspire her to become more pious.
                          Also I wouldn't straight up demand for someone who is more religious then you. You seem like you really care about religion so I wouldn't downplay how religious you are because some women might not want to be with a man that they think is less religious then them. There are a lot of guys who do whatever they want before marriage and then when they want to get married they want an innocent flower of a girl. You don't want to come off as one of those guys if your not like them.
                          Ask yourself why you were created. Do not let society distract you from seeking the truth.
                          Sahih International, 63:3 (Surah Al-Munafiqun)
                          That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                            Originally posted by Dr. Blitz View Post
                            Bismillah.

                            What do u mean by open minded? There is only one version of Qur'an, one ulemma consensus (ignore Hanbali vs Hanafi vs Maliki vs Shafii, we are all following the one Sunnah.) It is easy to make a spouse listen to someone - just show their mistakes in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah. The willingness to change is only for the sake of Allah Rabbul Alamin. Making your spouse happy is His commandment and if necessary any changes required to do so should follow without any debates. Everything comes into perspective when one becomes aware of what marriage in Islam signifies and what responsibilities it contains.

                            Eg I have friends from undergrad who refuses to do hijab or abstain from pork/alcohol and argues that those laws are for ancient times. This is shirk, as theyare questioning the divine will and Allah (swt) knows best. Surely Allah (swt) who created time and the heavens and the earth knows what changes occurs in each generation. I don't mean you personally believe in this but its just an example of what can happen when one wants to use the limited capability of human rationale and intelligence to decipher the reasons behind the laws of Allah (swt)
                            It's not that difficult to understand. Many jahil men seem to not want to listen to women (especially their wives) because well.. they're women and 'should only listen, not be listened to'.
                            "East, west, south, or north makes little difference. No matter what your destination, just be sure to make every journey a journey within. If you travel within, you’ll travel the whole wide world and beyond." - Rule 9. - The Forty Rules of Love.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A confused brother (regarding goals for marriage)

                              Originally posted by Dr. Blitz View Post
                              Assalamu alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatu
                              Bismillahir rahmaanir rahiim.

                              This is going to be a strange post but I've found myself in an unique set of circumstances. So here it goes.

                              Is it wrong of me to seek someone who is more pious than me? Well whats wrong with seeking a pious bride you may ask!
                              I come from a religious family, living in one of the most Islamic countries in the world, if not the most. I've lived in the west and have quite a liberal mind Yet I constantly feel I'm surrounded by munafiqs (hypocrite) and khawarij (exiters, people who read Qur'an, prays all salaah yet doesn't understand the Qur'an & deen)

                              My family believes I can be happy married to someone less pious as long as I can make her more pious after marriage but I want someone who is already more pious than me and will bring me closer to Allah (swt) through marriage. I have already tried speaking to a few under permissible circumstances to help them understand the deen but it seems impossible to eradicate 20+ years way of corrupted thinking by a few hours talk on what RasulAllah (saws) and the salaaf recommended in order to explain the Qur'an. Should I lower my standards and hope my future wifey will become more pious from observing me? I'm no where near perfect but I never dare question the will of Allah (swt) coz I consider that as shirk. I am aware of Qadr, I'm just curious if my point of view is correct ie to wait rather than change my goals. I'm also aware of the criterias used in seeking a
                              potential bride.

                              JazakumAllah khair
                              Asalaamualaykum.

                              I think the first thing you need to come to terms with before going ahead is what is piety.

                              If I were to ask you as to who had more piety...Hazrath Ali RA Or Hz Faathima RA...what would your answer be ?

                              The likeliness is that you'd say even-though we know so much about them from Quran and Hadith - Only Allah SWT really knows who had more, less or equal piety.

                              In that very same way - When you entertain the thought of piety in a spouse, you will come to realise there is a stark difference between practising and piety. When we generally say someone is practising, we are referring to an the eye witnessing of outward actions. Piety on the other hand is related to Ikhlaas (Sincerity in an action).

                              So the bottom line being is that you would never know the piety of anyone, but what you would be able to ascertain is if the person is practising either by their own testimony, family and friends testimony or even your own eye witnessing of the other persons action.

                              If you were to write down on an A4 paper what constitutes to piety, your entire list would be outward actions. Even if your list does have inward qualities for example ikhlaas, How would you deduce that the person has those qualities ?

                              When you talk of piety - it becomes synonymous and very close to the topic of Taqwa. The reality is you cant ascertain someones Taqwa. In the same way you can't ascertain piety as its almost one and thesame thing.

                              The talk of marrying a less pious person is nothing more than arrogance and pride and indicates a very corrupted understanding of Islam. The reality is that a husband and wife are there to learn from each other.

                              So your family suggests a less pious girl for you. Well - how is your family going to deduce who is more or less pious ? do they have Piety-Meter to attach to someone and get a reading from ? In the same way- if you say i want a more pious person ...Do you have a similar contraption or perhaps version 2.0 of it ?

                              The most sincere dua you can ever make is to ask Allah SWT to grant you a wife that He (Allah SWT) knows will be best for you.

                              I sincerely hope that Allah grants you the best.

                              And dont be stressed - these are exciting times :)

                              Salaam

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