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The concept of Qawwamah

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    The concept of Qawwamah

    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??

    #2
    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

    It matters not whether shes earning more or less than him. What matters is that if he is not providing for his wife than she does not have to give him his marital rights.

    But stay away from these things the shaytaan will try to make you think of these things and create fitna

    Comment


      #3
      Re: The concept of Qawwamah

      Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
      I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
      Earnings have no significance to wife's obedience to husband,

      :jkk:
      http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

      "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

      – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: The concept of Qawwamah

        Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
        I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
        So Khadija(ra) shouldnt have obeyed Prophet(sa) as a wife ?

        The thing that liberals miss in the verse is one thing and they make Qawwamah seem to be about one thing. Let me quote the verse.

        Men are in charge of women
        by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other
        and
        what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.

        The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.

        If a wife earns more then it still doesnt nullify the firsr clause of the verse which is intrinsic to how Allah created.

        So no.. Qawwamah cant be nullified or circumvented. Its the way Allah created.

        What we can say is just like a ruler can be oppressor. Qawammah can be misused and not fulfilled by men.
        Last edited by savo234; 17-07-17, 10:07 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: The concept of Qawwamah

          Originally posted by savo234 View Post
          So Khadija(ra) shouldnt have obeyed Prophet(sa) as a wife ?

          The thing that liberals miss in the verse is one thing and they make Qawwamah seem to be about one thing. Let me quote the verse.

          Men are in charge of women
          by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other
          and
          what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.

          The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.

          If a wife earns more then it still doesnt nullify the firsr clause of the verse which is intrinsic to how Allah created.

          So no.. Qawwamah cant be nullified or circumvented. Its the way Allah created.

          What we can say is just like a ruler can be oppressor. Qawammah can be misused and not fulfilled by men.
          I'm not entirely sure if I am getting the chronology right but wasn't Surah Nisa revealed after Khadija (RA) passed away?

          Comment


            #6
            Re: The concept of Qawwamah

            Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
            I'm not entirely sure if I am getting the chronology right but wasn't Surah Nisa revealed after Khadija (RA) passed away?
            This was just an example. However you have to address the second point that Allah(swt) mentioned 2 reasons for Qawamah not just one(of earning). Do you have any answer for that point.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: The concept of Qawwamah

              The two reasons are
              ( بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض )
              With what Allah preferred one over the other
              ( وبما أنفقوا من أموالهم )
              AND what they spend from their wealths.

              These are two clauses in arabic separated by the conjugation. And read any tafsir, they treat these two as reasons.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                Originally posted by savo234 View Post
                This was just an example. However you have to address the second point that Allah(swt) mentioned 2 reasons for Qawamah not just one(of earning). Do you have any answer for that point.
                I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                  Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
                  I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?
                  If she wants exceptions then she has to write that in NIkah in contract. And if she gets such a man who says "Ok, I ll not ask for you to obey me as long as you do your own earning". Then Shariah does not interfere between what two people decide mutually. Its their life, their settlement.

                  If there is such a woman then she should find a man suitable. Islam allows that what they decide mutually.

                  The default is that she has to . And Qawamah is not just obedience of wives to husbands. It extends to society like leading Salah, like father being guardians etc etc. As for the particular issue of obedience then the default is that she has to follow the command of Allah(swt) to obey husbands except if he asks something beyond her capability or something sinful.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                    Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
                    I've been reading up some arguments by the liberals about how the concept of Qawammah (Obedience of a wife to a husband) doesn't need to apply when women outearning their husbands. I know this is absolutely preposterous since I believe the Quran to be for all times and for all places. Was this issue categorically dealt with anywhere??
                    Originally posted by Vanquished View Post
                    I think you've misunderstood. I do understand the reasoning behind Qawammah. Let me know if I am understanding this correctly. Can the women forego her right to maintainance in a marriage(Eg: She earns her own money) if she doesn't want to obey her husband?
                    No, because when Allah(swt) revealed the qawwamah that men have over women, the first thing he said was بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض, this means there are areas where the man inherently exceeds the woman and excels over her, and this can not be changed no matter who the breadwinner is, or whether the husband spends on her or not. So even if she gives up her maintenace, she owes him obedience and respect, and should enthusiastically attempt to fulfill his rights.
                    وَمَا قَدَرُوا اللَّهَ حَقَّ قَدْرِهِ وَالْأَرْضُ جَمِيعًا قَبْضَتُهُ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَالسَّمَاوَاتُ مَطْوِيَّاتٌ بِيَمِينِهِ ۚ سُبْحَانَهُ وَتَعَالَىٰ عَمَّا يُشْرِكُونَ
                    They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him. (Az-Zumar: 67)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                      Originally posted by savo234 View Post

                      The reasons of Qawammah are 2. One is spending and other is what Allah gave one over the other. In whose tafseer, Ibn Kathir, Baghawi and classical scholars say include many things that Allah gave men over women. Like right of divorce, right to lead Salah, lead State, Prophethood etc etc.
                      Alhamdulillah this is all a benefit for women and a responsibility on men, if only the west, men themselves, the liberals and those who take issue with it would really understand this concept.
                      Men have a lot to answer for on the day of qiyamah and with the state this ummah is in right now I sure wouldn't want to be them.
                      شَكَوْتُ إلَى وَكِيعٍ سُوءَ حِفْظِي
                      فَأرْشَدَنِي إلَى تَرْكِ المعَاصي
                      وَأخْبَرَنِي بأَنَّ العِلْمَ نُورٌ
                      ونورُ الله لا يهدى لعاصي

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                        Originally posted by Rumaysah~ View Post
                        Alhamdulillah this is all a benefit for women and a responsibility on men, if only the west, men themselves, the liberals and those who take issue with it would really understand this concept.
                        Men have a lot to answer for on the day of qiyamah and with the state this ummah is in right now I sure wouldn't want to be them.
                        I absolutely agree with you. It may happen that this qawammah becomes a burden on the day of judgement and something that a man wishes he was'nt given. But in Islam, we are given a question paper and whatever it is, we have to solve it. WIthin men themselves, the responsibility and fadl that Allah gives to one man varies over another. But the accountability is according to responsibility and fadl given. This fadl may end up become a double headache on day of judgement if the person does not utilize this according to Islam.

                        So if women are not given something then perhaps its in their benefit. And for sure, they can compete with men or outclass them still in a lot of things and get better status on day of judgement. The feminism will like women to focus on some of things that Allah(swt) forbids.

                        "And do not wish for that by which Allah has made some of you exceed others. For men is a share of what they have earned, and for women is a share of what they have earned. And ask Allah of his bounty. Indeed Allah is ever, of all things, Knowing. "

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                          These have unfortunately become alien concepts in the West where women have been brainwashed into accepting non Islamic values. They see it as at inequality to obey another man. I even heard one woman argue she worships Allah not her husband although her husband was only calling to an Islamic teaching. it's all a byproduct of spending too much time in non Islamic environments and nowhere near enough time in understanding the Deen. Technology has advanced and women have happily embraced this yet want to stay ignorant of the Deen. In many cases the only thing they value is secular education so if you bring up issues like the one discussed they'll think your making it up simply because they are ignorant of it.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                            Originally posted by Abd al-Rahman View Post
                            No, because when Allah(swt) revealed the qawwamah that men have over women, the first thing he said was بما فضل الله بعضهم على بعض, this means there are areas where the man inherently exceeds the woman and excels over her, and this can not be changed no matter who the breadwinner is, or whether the husband spends on her or not. So even if she gives up her maintenace, she owes him obedience and respect, and should enthusiastically attempt to fulfill his rights.
                            As far as I have read from scholars, spending is obligatory on the man as obedience is on the woman.

                            https://islamqa.info/en/245408

                            Originally posted by Islamqa
                            It was narrated that Mu‘aawiyah al-Qushayri (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I said: O Messenger of Allah, what are the rights of the wife of one of us over him? He said: “That you feed her as you feed yourself, clothe her as you clothe yourself, do not strike the face, do not disgrace her and if you want to shun her (by way of disciplining her) do not leave home.”

                            Narrated by Abu Dawood (2142) and Ibn Maajah (1850); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

                            This has been discussed previously in fatwa no. 145722

                            If the husband fails to spend on his wife’s maintenance, then she has the choice of leaving him or putting up with him.


                            If she chooses to put up with him, in the hope that he will change, if he is withholding her maintenance out of miserliness and stinginess, or until his financial situation improves, if he is not well off, then she is not obliged to allow him to be intimate with her.

                            Ash-Shiraazi ash-Shaafa‘i said in al-Muhadhdhab fi Fiqh al-Imam ash-Shaafa‘i (3/155):

                            If she chooses to stay after he becomes unable to spend on her, she is not obliged to allow him to be intimate with her, and she may leave his house, because allowing intimacy is in return for maintenance,
                            so it is not obligatory when there is no maintenance. End quote.
                            وَاقْصِدْ فِي مَشْيِكَ وَاغْضُضْ مِن صَوْتِكَ ۚ إِنَّ أَنكَرَ الْأَصْوَاتِ لَصَوْتُ الْحَمِيرِ - 31:19

                            And be moderate in your pace and lower your voice; indeed, the most disagreeable of sounds is the voice of donkeys."


                            أَلَمْ تَرَوْا أَنَّ اللَّهَ سَخَّرَ لَكُم مَّا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَسْبَغَ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعَمَهُ ظَاهِرَةً وَبَاطِنَةً ۗ وَمِنَ النَّاسِ مَن يُجَادِلُ فِي اللَّهِ بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ وَلَا هُدًى وَلَا كِتَابٍ مُّنِيرٍ - 31:20

                            Do you not see that Allah has made subject to you whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth and amply bestowed upon you His favors, [both] apparent and unapparent? But of the people is he who disputes about Allah without knowledge or guidance or an enlightening Book [from Him].


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                              #15
                              Re: The concept of Qawwamah

                              Originally posted by ottomanhanafi View Post
                              These have unfortunately become alien concepts in the West where women have been brainwashed into accepting non Islamic values. They see it as at inequality to obey another man. I even heard one woman argue she worships Allah not her husband although her husband was only calling to an Islamic teaching. it's all a byproduct of spending too much time in non Islamic environments and nowhere near enough time in understanding the Deen. Technology has advanced and women have happily embraced this yet want to stay ignorant of the Deen. In many cases the only thing they value is secular education so if you bring up issues like the one discussed they'll think your making it up simply because they are ignorant of it.
                              Your points are weird. I guess you have also been brainwashed to think that you are entitled to being respected by women without looking at what you can offer to them.

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