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Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

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  • Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

    I really get sick of brothers who think just because polygamy is sanctioned in islam, it gives the right to basically implement it as they see fit without any sort of thought for the women involved or wives involved in the matter.

    Look at the below hadith

    Ali b. Husain reported that Miswar b. Makhramah informed him that 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent the proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl as he had Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), (as his wife). When Fatima heard about it, she came to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) and said:
    The people say that you never feel angry on account of your daughters and now 'Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. Makhramah said: Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) rose up and I heard him reciting Tashahhud and say: Now to the point. I gave a daughter of mine (Zainab) to Abu'l-'As b. Rabi, and he spoke to me and spoke the truth. Verily Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad, is a part of me and I do not approve that she may be put to any trial and by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Messenger cannot be combined with the daughter of God's enemy (as the co-wives) of one person. Thereupon 'Ali gave up (the idea of his intended) marriage.

  • #2
    Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

    Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
    I really get sick of brothers who think just because polygamy is sanctioned in islam, it gives the right to basically implement it as they see fit without any sort of thought for the women involved or wives involved in the matter.

    Look at the below hadith

    Ali b. Husain reported that Miswar b. Makhramah informed him that 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent the proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl as he had Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ), (as his wife). When Fatima heard about it, she came to Allah's Apostle (ﷺ) and said:
    The people say that you never feel angry on account of your daughters and now 'Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. Makhramah said: Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) rose up and I heard him reciting Tashahhud and say: Now to the point. I gave a daughter of mine (Zainab) to Abu'l-'As b. Rabi, and he spoke to me and spoke the truth. Verily Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad, is a part of me and I do not approve that she may be put to any trial and by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Messenger cannot be combined with the daughter of God's enemy (as the co-wives) of one person. Thereupon 'Ali gave up (the idea of his intended) marriage.
    Thanks for sharing the hadeeth... what's the advice?

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    • #3
      Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

      Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
      Thanks for sharing the hadeeth... what's the advice?
      :salams

      I believe what he is trying to convey is that even the best of people's(as) had issues when it came to polygamy. Since that it is the case , we should not oppress the women in the Ummah by saying things like,

      "Why can't you accept it? It is in the Quran! Look it's a sunnah , the salaf practiced it. Islam is submission , so submit to this as well. Love for your sister what you love for yourself."

      And Allah knows best.

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      • #4
        Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

        Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
        Thanks for sharing the hadeeth... what's the advice?
        That's its perfectly normal for a wife to refuse to be a co wife and that its perfectly legitimate reason for divorce. Infact look below

        Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

        I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to allow them to marry their daughter to `Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless `Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me."

        As above bro says, polygamy should not be used to oppress women and sadly a lot of so called religious people remain oblivious to this huge issue

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        • #5
          Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

          Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
          That's its perfectly normal for a wife to refuse to be a co wife and that its perfectly legitimate reason for divorce. Infact look below

          Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama:

          I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to allow them to marry their daughter to `Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless `Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me."

          So the prophet said if ali wants a second wife he needs to divorce Fatima first.
          Are you sure that these ahadeeth are not specific to Ali and Fatima? may Allah be pleased with them both.

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          • #6
            Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

            Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
            Are you sure that these ahadeeth are not specific to Ali and Fatima? may Allah be pleased with them both.
            It is not specific because the prophet himself says, I will not give permission unless ali divorces my daughter to marry their daughter here referring to banu hisham bin al mughira. And reason being is that Fatimah was upset when she heard ali was interested in another wife.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

              Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
              It is not specific because the prophet himself says, I will not give permission unless ali divorces my daughter to marry their daughter here referring to banu hisham bin al mughira. And reason being is that Fatimah was upset when she heard ali was interested in another wife.
              But that's specific.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                But that's specific.
                The hadith is mentioning the situation between all three. In that aspect it's referring to them and specific. But the gist of the matter is, ahlul bayt who hold a special place in this religion are no different to any of us. Jealousy in Fatimah. protection from the prophet himself. We know the quran says if you can't treat someone equally then marry only one. Can anyone doubt a qadi like Ali would ever mistreat his wives or favour one over the other? Ofcourse not.

                And yet the prophet refused to sanction this unless ali divorced his daughter. The moral of the story is never oppress women when it comes to polygamy and even if it is sanctioned in islam, women are entitled to not accept it

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                • #9
                  Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                  Originally posted by Abu 'Abdullaah View Post
                  But that's specific.
                  A specific incident is specific? You don't say.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                    Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
                    The hadith is mentioning the situation between all three. In that aspect it's referring to them and specific. But the gist of the matter is, ahlul bayt who hold a special place in this religion are no different to any of us. Jealousy in Fatimah. protection from the prophet himself. We know the quran says if you can't treat someone equally then marry only one. Can anyone doubt a qadi like Ali would ever mistreat his wives or favour one over the other? Ofcourse not.

                    And yet the prophet refused to sanction this unless ali divorced his daughter. The moral of the story is never oppress women when it comes to polygamy and even if it is sanctioned in islam, women are entitled to not accept it
                    I agree with the moral behind the story, but I don't think this hadeeth is the best example to use for the following reason:
                    ...Can anyone doubt a qadi like Ali would ever mistreat his wives or favour one over the other? Ofcourse not...
                    Thus it's not about polygamy in general, nor is it about oppression or any other form of mistreatment. It's specifically about Fatima due to her status.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                      Yeah this topic can't be used to prove the point you're trying to push. The Sahabah ridwaanulahi `alaihim did not have issues with polygamy or with what Allah (swt) has permitted. Rather it is those who do have issues with the aforementioned who try to make it out as though they had.

                      How can any of this be used to prove your point. The first hadith you posted was so off I kind of wonder if you even read it.

                      "the daughter of Allah's Messenger cannot be combined with the daughter of God's enemy (as the co-wives) of one person"

                      Does that sound like an issue with polygamy..?

                      So many other stories also fly in the face of your idea as well. For instance, if it was within their rights to refuse to accept polygamy, why did we not see any instances of this? Were women back then devoid of jealousy? Even in these instances, it was Rasulullah :saw: who made the call, not Fatimah (r. a).

                      Of course if a woman doesn't like it she may seek to divorce, but there is nothing binding the man Islamically to just one wife unless obvious conditions apply (not being able to be equal, not having the ability to for whatever reason, etc). Unless of course you stopped interpreting stuff on your own and perhaps got us some reliable quotes from scholars who have concluded as you did.
                      والمبادرة إلى التكفير إنما تغلب على طباع من يغلب عليهم الجهل - ابن تيمية رحمه الله - بغية المرتاد

                      "Rushing towards takfir is an attitude which is dominant over those who are defeated by ignorance." - Ibn Taymiyyah Rahimahullah [Bughyatul Murtaad, page 354]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                        Originally posted by AmantuBillahi View Post
                        :salams

                        I believe what he is trying to convey is that even the best of people's(as) had issues when it came to polygamy. Since that it is the case , we should not oppress the women in the Ummah by saying things like,

                        "Why can't you accept it? It is in the Quran! Look it's a sunnah , the salaf practiced it. Islam is submission , so submit to this as well. Love for your sister what you love for yourself."

                        And Allah knows best.
                        What's "(as)" may I ask? Is that an abbreviation of "alaihi as-salaam"?

                        I know Shia do this at the mention of e.g 'Ali or Hasaan or Hussain (RA). Not saying you're a Shia however, ahah.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                          Originally posted by Morose View Post
                          What's "(as)" may I ask? Is that an abbreviation of "alaihi as-salaam"?

                          I know Shia do this at the mention of e.g 'Ali or Hasaan or Hussain (RA). Not saying you're a Shia however, ahah.
                          :salams Brother

                          In this case I intended "alayhim salam" (peace be upon them)

                          I used to think that it is only permissible to say this for prophets(as) specifically. I have been corrected though and you can find alayhis salam for the Ahl al Bayt in certain books of Hadith compilation like Bukhaari.

                          There is a difference of opinion on the matter though. What is generally accepted and practiced today is in accordance with......

                          Ibn Katheer said in his Tafseer (3/517):

                          This phrase is used a great deal by scribes who are transcribing books in which the phrase “ ‘alayhi al-salaam (upon him be peace) is used in reference to ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him), to the exclusion of other Sahaabah, or the words “karrama Allaahu wajhahu (may Allaah honour his face)” are used. Although the meaning is acceptable, we should respect all the Sahaabah equally in this way, because this is a kind of veneration and honouring, and the two shaykhs [Abu Bakr and ‘Umar] and Ameer al-Mu’mineen ‘Uthmaan are more deserving of that – may Allaah be pleased with them all

                          Source : https://islamqa.info/en/10136

                          Wa Allahu alaam

                          In addition to what was said above..

                          http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/in...waId&Id=163193

                          "it should be mentioned that there is a difference of opinion among the scholars about the ruling on using “‘Alayhi As-Salaam” for other than the Prophets.
                          Allaah Knows best"
                          Last edited by AmantuBillahi; 17-03-17, 09:10 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                            [MENTION=63294]AmantuBillahi[/MENTION]

                            Okay bro I never knew that.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Advice for the brothers. Even ahlul bayt had issues with polygamy. So watch it

                              Valid point but I don't see how that narration is relevant here bro.

                              Comment

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