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  • #46
    Re: Unwanted Children

    Originally posted by savo234 View Post
    Well recently in the media, there has been much attention given to a trend that people are coming out saying that its normal and okay to say "we do not want children" or some people, if they had children, they are coming out openly and saying "I regret having Children".

    Your thoughts brothers and sisters about it. Should we as Muslims give people liberty or exert a peer pressure in the form of condemning such trends.

    I know some Muslim Feminists like the famous user "Salafi Feminist" have written some things about this.

    I think its Makruh for a couple to mutually decide to not have children at all. Its allowed to do so.

    And in the form of an ideology or a popular trend then its haram and condemnable.

    Your thoughts ?
    Babies/children are hard work, and I don't think young mothers/fathers realise the depth of responsibility involved with parenting.
    Personally, I've managed pretty well alhamdulillaah, but it's been because I've had a lot of extra support (mother, mother-in-law, siblings etc), and I've been blessed with one child. Alhamdulillaah.

    I can imagine a young woman with perhaps three/four children, who has no 'me-time' - going absolutely crazy, with no extra support, and husband away at work.

    It's difficult, children can be real terrors. Not to mention when they have the cold or are ill. So in that respect, I can understand if a woman feels 'overwhelmed', however, it doesn't justify the saying 'unwanted children' because that would be denying something Allaah has blessed you with and decreed for you.

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    • #47
      Re: Unwanted Children

      Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post
      as far as i know, azl is not makruh then again it could be a fiqh issue

      and i just realized something, how can any child be unwanted if he never really made it to the womb- i.e. he didn't exist to begin with

      if people mutually agree to not have children- again, for whatever reason- that's their choice, why judge them?
      Sister you misunderstood the unwanted part. It means that there are parents who after having kids regret having them. That is an unwanted child. If you believe or feel " I did not want to give birth but it happened by accident and now this kid(fatimah, bakr or zaid) is a liability. I may love him/her or not but if I could turn the clock back, I would not have him/her." Sometimes this feeling may translate into action and result in neglect of child. Or if it does not translate into action, one may still express it in words and hurt the child when he/she comes to know that his parents did not want him/her to be born.

      I mean this regret when you are raising that kid. If he grows up and becomes a douchebag and then you disown or regret because of his/her actions then thats a different story. Or if you thought that this kid would have been better taken care of if I delayed him/her. These are different dimensions. But there are people who regret the very fact that they have become parents. They wish or desire that they never had any kid. Those parents are the phenomenon that we are dealing with.

      As for Azl. Then you are right that , there is a disagreement between it being simply permissible without being makruh. And being permissible with Ikrah, this is the opinion of Ibn Qudamah, Imam Nawawi and quoted by many Sahaba. As for it being haram then its a minority opinion.

      But the issue here is that many scholars considered Azl not Makruh because it can have many valid reasons. Such as if another pregnancy is not desirable while the woman is feeding previous baby. Or if there is a state of insecurity/war in the land such that a pregnancy is not feasible. Or someone does not want large number of children for fear of providing them. Imam Ibn hajr al asqalani details these reasons.

      The real issue is doing Azl for the sole reason of having no kids to begin with. The difference between these 2 cases is that for example, if xyz parents did not want children because of finances. If they had more finances, they would have them. So technically they still desire them. But there could be other parents, who just do not desire children and they are not waiting for things to improve or health or something. They just believe that they should have no children. This is Makruh. Nothing specific in Shariah to make it haram. But I think this goes against the ahadith encouraging children and thus the opinion of scholars like Ibn Qudamah(ra) of it being Makruh seems correct for me.

      As for why people should want it. Its simple. You are extending the worship of Allah by your life span if Allah gives your righteous children and this is specifically mentioned as reason for having children by prophets and by Rasulullah(sa) when he said "I will be proud of you on the day of judgement". If sufficiently effective number of believers decide to not reproduce then it will reduce the worshippers of Allah(swt) and Ummah of Muhammad(sa) in our time. Not going into Qadar/Asbaab paradox. So not having kids reasonably will be undesirable to adopt as a trend.
      Last edited by savo234; 21-02-17, 09:03 PM.

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      • #48
        Re: Unwanted Children

        Originally posted by .Hajar. View Post
        as far as i know, azl is not makruh then again it could be a fiqh issue

        and i just realized something, how can any child be unwanted if he never really made it to the womb- i.e. he didn't exist to begin with

        if people mutually agree to not have children- again, for whatever reason- that's their choice, why judge them?
        I don't believe he is saying judge them, individually or as couples but more how this is a trend we are seeing more and more and how it is not a good thing in generality, or at least that was how I understood his post.
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        • #49
          Re: Unwanted Children

          Is "not wanting kids or wishing they didn't have kids" a new concept. To me it always been there. I have heard this 20+ years ago. People complain/regret having kids when the kids are young & constantly getting in trouble and not giving you breathing space. It is not easy raising kids. I have friends complaining about not being able to pee because the kids are so needy. Not every kid is same and not every parents can handle same amount. So there are moments of depression and regrets. Also post pregnancy depressing is very well documented, this can last for years.

          But not just the exhausted parents who regret kids time to time, elderly parents who don't get the support they expected from their kids or when the kid made chooses they did not approve often regret having kid. Atlas in the desi community, it is not unheard of for parents to disown their adult kid for marrying someone parents didn't "approve". You don't think those parents who cut ties with their kids don't talk about regrets and years wasted on that kid. Regrets are normal part of life. People regret about who they married, about the kids they had, about the job they took, about the opportunity they missed. Some people don't look back while others linger in past life full of regrets. As the sister said below its tough & don't judge

          Originally posted by Indefinable View Post
          Babies/children are hard work, and I don't think young mothers/fathers realise the depth of responsibility involved with parenting.
          Personally, I've managed pretty well alhamdulillaah, but it's been because I've had a lot of extra support (mother, mother-in-law, siblings etc), and I've been blessed with one child. Alhamdulillaah.

          I can imagine a young woman with perhaps three/four children, who has no 'me-time' - going absolutely crazy, with no extra support, and husband away at work.

          It's difficult, children can be real terrors. Not to mention when they have the cold or are ill. So in that respect, I can understand if a woman feels 'overwhelmed', however, it doesn't justify the saying 'unwanted children' because that would be denying something Allaah has blessed you with and decreed for you.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Unwanted Children

            Well everyone is different and has different situations/experiences, so frankly I'm not going to be bothered by someone else's choice not to have kids ( although yes it's highly encouraged and whatnot).

            Also although kids are a blessing, it sure isn't easy to raise them, especially the pregnancy/early childhood stage. Even with support, it's insanely diffifcult. So if a parent does regret having their kids they should talk it out with a close confidant but try not to let the kids realize it.

            Idk when I read some statements saying they absolutely can't understand why someone wouldn't want kids, it shows a lack of...understanding, I guess? Namely the inability to put yourself in other peoples' shoes and understand why their experiences shaped their view on kids.
            www.treasureofthescholars.wordpress.com

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            • #51
              Re: Unwanted Children

              Subhana'Allah my heart goes out for those children whose parents don't love and want them. Where is this world come to?
              People are so selfish and everything is going around themselves and feeding their desires.

              Encouragement to have a lot of children
              https://islamqa.info/en/13492

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Unwanted Children

                Iv gone single cuz i dont want kids... too clingie... the thought of having something binding to me the rest of my life makes me feel breathless...

                Just not for me...
                *
                *
                * typing from my phone, excuse the mess

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                • #53
                  Re: Unwanted Children

                  Originally posted by Comrox View Post
                  With all due respect, it sounds like you're both making assumptions that a person feelings' will automatically manifest in their actions. I've read accounts of people who honestly admit to regretting their children. They never show it. They never tell the child. That is unnecessary cruel, and they recognize this. You can still regret your child and be a great parent. You can still regret your child and love them. For some people it just means if they could have chosen differently, they would have. And we all can say that about at least something in our lives.
                  There is truth in this, as well as your above post regarding different categories of people. Being a parent is hard. I've made the comment in life before that kids are overrated. Of course I don't say that to my own child, even though I think he would understand where I was coming from. By saying that, it's more along the lines of what we're often raised to believe about parenthood not being like a Disney movie. Now, some have younger siblings or had babysat before and knew what kids were like. I never had that experience, so you can imagine what feelings come about. It's just hard, and often in society it is not seen as acceptable to complain or have second thoughts about our kids and life choices. I think it's healthy to be able to be honest; at least, it helped me to express myself on occasion and say I thought being a mom was overrated. Do I really mean that? Probably not. But I feel like that sometimes.

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                  • #54
                    Re: Unwanted Children

                    Originally posted by Kya View Post
                    Is "not wanting kids or wishing they didn't have kids" a new concept. To me it always been there. I have heard this 20+ years ago. People complain/regret having kids when the kids are young & constantly getting in trouble and not giving you breathing space. It is not easy raising kids. I have friends complaining about not being able to pee because the kids are so needy. Not every kid is same and not every parents can handle same amount. So there are moments of depression and regrets. Also post pregnancy depressing is very well documented, this can last for years.

                    But not just the exhausted parents who regret kids time to time, elderly parents who don't get the support they expected from their kids or when the kid made chooses they did not approve often regret having kid. Atlas in the desi community, it is not unheard of for parents to disown their adult kid for marrying someone parents didn't "approve". You don't think those parents who cut ties with their kids don't talk about regrets and years wasted on that kid. Regrets are normal part of life. People regret about who they married, about the kids they had, about the job they took, about the opportunity they missed. Some people don't look back while others linger in past life full of regrets. As the sister said below its tough & don't judge
                    You hit the nail on the head!

                    Bringing up children is no walk in the park - you tie yourself to a life time of guilt and worry. If you are anything like me... you will literally feel like you are holding your own heart in your hands.

                    I have younger brothers... 3 of them were nightmares... but my youngest one, who I brought up pretty much myself was an angel... I think Allah had mercy on me!

                    The other thing is... with couples not living in joint families anymore... they do lose that support network of help... where mum can sleep, whilst gran feeds the baby... or niece can play with baby while mum cooks etc.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Unwanted Children

                      Children are not stupid. They can easily sense when their parents resent their presence even if they do not state it verbally. They keenly observe what & who their parents give time & attention to - be it their cellphones , their friends or their work instead of them. They can even understand their parent's favoritism towards their own siblings from a very young age. Kids who grow up feeling unwanted develop low self-esteem and confidence. Every child deserves to be the most loved & cherished thing in the world to his parents. Kids crave love & affection...they live for it.

                      If you make your children feel unwanted & a burden at an age when they need you, they will do the same to you at an age when you need them. These resentful kids are the most likely ones to kick their parents out on the streets or dump them in an old age home when they turn old & have no support in life. What goes around always comes around.

                      Secondly, if you don't want kids - don't have intercourse. Simple. That's the only 100% foolproof method to avoid them. No other method in the market is foolproof. Otherwise, be prepared to live with the consequences.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Unwanted Children

                        Originally posted by arfatzafar View Post
                        Kids are beautiful gifts.

                        Why some people don't want this ne3ma...?
                        Rant alert! This topic boils my blood...

                        The Qur'an tells us the two main reasons:

                        وَلَا تَقْتُلُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ خَشْيَةَ إِمْلَاقٍ ۖ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُهُمْ وَإِيَّاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ قَتْلَهُمْ كَانَ خِطْئًا كَبِيرًا
                        ("And do not kill your children for fear of poverty. We provide for them and for you. Indeed, their killing is ever a great sin.") 17:31

                        أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَٰهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَىٰ بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَن يَهْدِيهِ مِن بَعْدِ اللَّهِ ۚ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ
                        ("Have you seen he who has taken as his god his [own] desire, and Allah has sent him astray due to knowledge and has set a seal upon his hearing and his heart and put over his vision a veil? So who will guide him after Allah ? Then will you not be reminded?") 45:23

                        Raising kids is expensive, and the media hypes up how expensive it is. In the West today most people can reasonably afford children without fear of poverty, but it requires sacrifice both in terms of giving up your own desires and in working harder than you may want to. People today, especially young people, are selfish. They don't want to give up their own comforts. They choose to have luxurious lives instead. Worse still, I have several acquaintances who openly say that they don't want children because they want to engage in haraam and never settle down.
                        Case in point: I have a (non-Muslim) aunt who has been married for 10 years (after living with the man that is now her husband for over 8 years as if they were married), who says she does not ever want to have children. Instead she and her husband work hard so that they can have a large house and nice cars for themselves, travel the country going to rock concerts and doing drugs, and treat their two Rottweilers like their children.

                        1 in 3 babies conceived in the US since Roe v. Wade in 1973 has been killed by abortion because of people taking their desires as their god. It's a sacrifice at the altar of self. So to answer your question brother, kufr is the reason people deny the children their Lord would bless them with.

                        Dunya, man... It's so messed up.

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                        • #57
                          Re: Unwanted Children

                          Think before you have kids. It's literally a life-altering decision. I wouldn't recommend having kids too young or too old. I think the 25-35ish age range is good.

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                          • #58
                            Re: Unwanted Children

                            Can't wait to have a little dinobot princesses. Having kids apart from the obvious benefits as the deen says, it also would make you look back in life. You will have something to leave this dunya by.

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                            • #59
                              Re: Unwanted Children

                              Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
                              Can't wait to have a little dinobot princesses. Having kids apart from the obvious benefits as the deen says, it also would make you look back in life. You will have something to leave this dunya by.
                              I'll bring my lil deeni princesses to beef your lil dinobot princesses

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