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  • Muslima London
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by nudgetheputri View Post
    Most likely because if zina is accepted and the norm in one's society, it's easy to disregard Islamic principles if you are not strong in deen. Some are normalized to it seeing it through their friends and family so there's this accepting attitude of "oh okay im sure you repented, there's so much fitna after all you know.." Perhaps that's why there is leeway for zina makers.

    On the other hand, most secular societies condemn murder,rape and robbery. There are social consequences to this from many societies, like having a criminal record, black listed in jobs, family/ community shame etc, attached to the individual. This goes in line with our Islamic principles because these are equally regarded as huge sins too. So, it is automatically upsetting for many to reject potentials with THAT kind of history. Gee, who wants to put up with a spouse who's known for all the wrong moves?

    and all tbat as well

    I guess more leeway for the former because of the changing attitudes towards zina. Nobody can feel the tangible consequences when they do zina, especially when there's no apparent social stigma (instead, there's growing social appraisal for "studs" for zannii men and "women empowerment" zannii women) from where they live and their upbringing. However, other equally bad sins such as theft and all that you mentioned still remains frowned upon by Islam and the secular society they live in.
    all this

    Leave a comment:


  • Muslima London
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
    Long thread but just want to touch up on this point that's been mentioned as its something that comes up from time to time on the forum.

    The idea that someone has repented for the sin so Allah has forgiven them so who are we to hold this against them.

    Just want to ask is this something you three genuinely believe that the idea of not holding the past against someone?

    The reason being change zina to something else like drug dealing, murder, rape, molestation, prostitution, banditry, theft etc. yet suddenly the past would matter, even if that person had repented and was now a good Muslim.

    Many wouldn't marry a man/woman or give their daughter to a man who has done the above so why the opposition when zina is treated similarly.

    you havea point

    I suppose its because zina is seen as something personal, against yourself and not necessarily something which harms other people

    and yes tbh I would have to ask htem thoroughly about their relationship, and what and who.
    I can tolderate if they just had a g/f that they hanged around with but I think ddeep down I would find it hard to accept someone who has been a 100 times around the block and gone to 3rd base or wherever kids are going nowadsays

    Leave a comment:


  • hassaan561
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    Good point. This increasing apathy toward zina could potentially be very dangerous.
    if u think about it, it actually might be worse already because some people prefer people with past because xyz reasons....

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoic Believer
    replied
    Originally posted by hassaan561 View Post
    i dont want it to get to the point where both men and women think its normal that people have "past" so they just forgive them for their past because then more women and men will do it because they think god will forgive them and their future spouse wont care so its ok to enjoy for now. then we're no different than western people who think its ok to sleep around as long as u do it before u met me, which is not right.
    Good point. This increasing apathy toward zina could potentially be very dangerous.

    Leave a comment:


  • hassaan561
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    i dont want it to get to the point where both men and women think its normal that people have "past" so they just forgive them for their past because then more women and men will do it because they think god will forgive them and their future spouse wont care so its ok to enjoy for now. then we're no different than western people who think its ok to sleep around as long as u do it before u met me, which is not right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Allah's_Servant
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
    I was talking about born-Muslims.

    Obviously with reverts the situation is different. But even then I find it hard to believe people will be 100% accepting when it comes to the really horrific actions like rape and murder. You don't need Islam to tell you this stuff is wrong, that's just being human.
    Born-Muslim is more difficult even if they asked for forgiveness it's the fact that they are Muslim and that they should have known better that sets us off or makes us hesitant to fully forgive them and acccpet them.

    and yes it would also be difficult to fully forgive a revert who committed murder or rape this is why Allah is Al-Rahman Al-Rahim Al-Gaffar Al-Gafur and Al-Afuww. SubhanAllah

    Leave a comment:


  • nudgetheputri
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
    Long thread but just want to touch up on this point that's been mentioned as its something that comes up from time to time on the forum.

    The idea that someone has repented for the sin so Allah has forgiven them so who are we to hold this against them.

    Just want to ask is this something you three genuinely believe that the idea of not holding the past against someone?

    The reason being change zina to something else like drug dealing, murder, rape, molestation, prostitution, banditry, theft etc. yet suddenly the past would matter, even if that person had repented and was now a good Muslim.

    Many wouldn't marry a man/woman or give their daughter to a man who has done the above so why the opposition when zina is treated similarly.
    Most likely because if zina is accepted and the norm in one's society, it's easy to disregard Islamic principles if you are not strong in deen. Some are normalized to it seeing it through their friends and family so there's this accepting attitude of "oh okay im sure you repented, there's so much fitna after all you know.." Perhaps that's why there is leeway for zina makers.

    On the other hand, most secular societies condemn murder,rape and robbery. There are social consequences to this from many societies, like having a criminal record, black listed in jobs, family/ community shame etc, attached to the individual. This goes in line with our Islamic principles because these are equally regarded as huge sins too. So, it is automatically upsetting for many to reject potentials with THAT kind of history. Gee, who wants to put up with a spouse who's known for all the wrong moves?

    I guess more leeway for the former because of the changing attitudes towards zina. Nobody can feel the tangible consequences when they do zina, especially when there's no apparent social stigma (instead, there's growing social appraisal for "studs" for zannii men and "women empowerment" zannii women) from where they live and their upbringing. However, other equally bad sins such as theft and all that you mentioned still remains frowned upon by Islam and the secular society they live in.
    Last edited by nudgetheputri; 09-07-16, 05:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khalid b. Walid
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Allah's_Servant View Post
    Why would we hold a prostitues past against her if she became a Muslim? Why we hold a murders past against him if he became Muslim (least we forget the famous story of the man who killed 99 people.) Why should we hold a drug dealer or drug users past against them? Same goes for a theft.

    Even a rapist. I mean yes very disgusting act but with Islam he can put that behind him.
    I was talking about born-Muslims.

    Obviously with reverts the situation is different. But even then I find it hard to believe people will be 100% accepting when it comes to the really horrific actions like rape and murder. You don't need Islam to tell you this stuff is wrong, that's just being human.

    Leave a comment:


  • Allah's_Servant
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Khalid b. Walid View Post
    Long thread but just want to touch up on this point that's been mentioned as its something that comes up from time to time on the forum.

    The idea that someone has repented for the sin so Allah has forgiven them so who are we to hold this against them.

    Just want to ask is this something you three genuinely believe in this idea of nothing holding the past against someone?

    The reason being change zina to something else like drug dealing, murder, rape, molestation, prostitution, banditry, theft etc. yet suddenly the past would matter, even if that person had repented and was now a good Muslim.

    Many wouldn't marry a man/woman or give their daughter to a man who has done the above so why is zina treated any differently?
    Why would we hold a prostitues past against her if she became a Muslim? Why we hold a murders past against him if he became Muslim (least we forget the famous story of the man who killed 99 people.) Why should we hold a drug dealer or drug users past against them? Same goes for a theft.

    Even a rapist. I mean yes very disgusting act but with Islam he can put that behind him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Khalid b. Walid
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by patient believer View Post
    Dont speak about sisters like that , even if she does such filth.Those nasty **** n3ed your dua . For all you know you do sins which they can never think of .
    Also revefts who had past is often excused , but born Muslims who had a past but repetened is called names. They should be treated equally because Allah can wipe both of their sins .
    Originally posted by Muslima London View Post
    if we are talking about Zina, I think that is different because to commit zina is not the act itself but also a change in attitude - e.g. disobedience to Allah swt. but I think brothers should see the person as they are now. has that person repented, have they changed, are they remorseful - instead of condemning her
    Originally posted by Deeni Akh View Post
    Why you basing your point on some small scenario that may never happen lol. I'm just mentioning that you shouldn't bring people's past into the present especially after they've changed and done tawbah. If Allah swt can forgive them, who are we to bring it up again? And if it's a personal preference, then please don't generalise all men by saying Allah fashioned us this way.

    And do I even need to mention the Iman of reverts after they leave their jahilliyyah subhanallah, better than many born muslims.
    Long thread but just want to touch up on this point that's been mentioned as its something that comes up from time to time on the forum.

    The idea that someone has repented for the sin so Allah has forgiven them so who are we to hold this against them.

    Just want to ask is this something you three genuinely believe that the idea of not holding the past against someone?

    The reason being change zina to something else like drug dealing, murder, rape, molestation, prostitution, banditry, theft etc. yet suddenly the past would matter, even if that person had repented and was now a good Muslim.

    Many wouldn't marry a man/woman or give their daughter to a man who has done the above so why the opposition when zina is treated similarly.
    Last edited by Khalid b. Walid; 09-07-16, 04:50 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Allah's_Servant
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Stoic Believer View Post
    We were talking about what men care about, so I only mentioned women.

    Casual fling, meaning you're just involved with them for the physical stuff. Or one night stands. Between a girl who's only been in serious committed relationships, and a girl who just had a bunch of casual flings, men will definitely prefer the former, although both are bad.

    You'd have every right to be suspicious, but you're already married to a man who's never dated, so yeah lol.
    Lol the things that I've had to explain to my husband about women are so awkward. It's like explaining things to a child. But I suppose it's better than always being worried about your husband knowing too much from experience

    Leave a comment:


  • zi-zizou
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Allah's_Servant View Post
    Maybe but I mean it's not like men are free from this. I feel like men are even more prone to date than women are. But I feel like people judge the woman more harshly than the men
    Yup, because as a man dealing with a woman it's almost natural that you will become unguarded. You are more likely to view her as innocent whereas I think it's not necessarily the same the other way round.

    Leave a comment:


  • Allah's_Servant
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by peras1 View Post
    Well, you're married now so say alhamdulilah and don't indulge in such hypothetical situations since Allah has allowed you to marry a righteous spouse.
    Praise be to Allah Alhamduillah

    But I was just wondering because my cousin recently got engaged to a man who is known to have chit chatted with women. And I kind of fear for her now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoic Believer
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Allah's_Servant View Post
    What exactly is a casual fling? Wouldn't the same apply to men? Like I'm very suspicious of men who have had girlfriends. Because I don't feel like I could trust him in the marriage I feel like I would always be checking his phone to see if he's chit chatting with womne
    We were talking about what men care about, so I only mentioned women.

    Casual fling, meaning you're just involved with them for the physical stuff. Or one night stands. Between a girl who's only been in serious committed relationships, and a girl who just had a bunch of casual flings, men will definitely prefer the former, although both are bad.

    You'd have every right to be suspicious, but you're already married to a man who's never dated, so yeah lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • peras1
    replied
    Re: Is not being experienced a problem

    Originally posted by Allah's_Servant View Post
    What exactly is a casual fling? Wouldn't the same apply to men? Like I'm very suspicious of men who have had girlfriends. Because I don't feel like I could trust him in the marriage I feel like I would always be checking his phone to see if he's chit chatting with womne
    Well, you're married now so say alhamdulilah and don't indulge in such hypothetical situations since Allah has allowed you to marry a righteous spouse.

    Leave a comment:

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