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Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

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  • Kya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Winter View Post
    :salams

    He's not as religious? What are we talking about here in regards to that? I mean does he pray 5 times a day, fast, give zakat/charity, follow some sunnah? The only difference being she maybe follows more sunnah stuff?
    ?
    Few questions came up about the guy. I want to point out, I don't know much about this guy. So I can't comment about him and please take my comments about him with grain of salt. I never met the guy, I might be wrong in saying he is not as religious as her. By that I don't mean he is not religious. I mean, as brother above posted, he most likely engages less in extra sunnah than her. She has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to following sunnah among my friends group, so I hold her at high value. The reason I said "he is not as practicing as her" is because when she described this brother to me, it didn't start with "mashallah he is very practicing" which normally is the first thing she looks at. Plus he didn't have beard in the picture I saw of him.

    I know there are several red flags from financial differences to cultural differences..etc but she is an adult who has lived and seen the world. I feel she should be able to make good decision & I don't feel like I should be yet another person putting negative thoughts in her head or questioning her judgment. Isn't that what friends are suppose to be for, to be there for each other regardless of whether you agree or not.

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  • Sister_2009
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    We need to know more about the guy. If they are at different stages regarding religion, this is potentially a big problem. I understand that she's been waiting and wants to get married, but she needs to be careful not to accept someone out of desperation to end the wait. Honestly, any person is better off alone than with someone who isn't compatible. Take her parents out of the picture, and who is this guy and why is he marriage material? We need to know more.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ya'sin
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Alina15 View Post
    It's true. Yet, it's so unfair. I mean, she is 30, she wants to get married, she found a man she likes and her parents don't support her because he has a BA and he is from another culture. Well, it's really not enough. It's her life and at 30 years old, she has the right to make some decisions on her future.
    This is why it's best not to go and seek a spouse yourself because you will start liking someone and then you leave your parents for a stranger you can't be 100% about until after marriage when all is revealed from both parties.

    I understand some parents make it more difficult than it is but this is not the way to go about it. Make lots of dua and constantly speak to your parents about it. Get the relatives that are close to your parents involved. Some women regret taking this path without their parent's approval.

    I think she should get both of their fathers and lock them up in a room so they can talk about it.

    Also, there is something not right about a man who is fine with a potential leaving her parents for him, I would have thought he'd advice her to find another solution. I know this is difficult but this is a big day when the angels will be sending blessings but no parents who are probably just as heart broken because it's their only daughter, that's not right.

    Parents make so many sacrifices for us but we can't make any for them. I'm sorry, but I've heard about girls eloping or doing things like this and in the end they not only hurt their parents but they feel empty after marriage too.

    Kya said the sister is more aggressive than her mother, she will have to use this to show her parents that it's unfair for her. She needs to sit down with them a few more times.
    Last edited by Ya'sin; 19-05-16, 06:39 PM.

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  • slaveuk
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
    Thank their beautiful mathhab.
    Actually brother most of them do NOT apply the Hanafi Madhab in this case.

    And be careful of using ironic terms like "beautiful madhab" as though it is something bad. None of the Ulema including those who you probably hold in high esteem, as most of us do, have used sarcasm to describe the madhaahib. Learn some manners and surround yourself with good company. Honestly some of your posts are so rude and lacking in basic etiquette one wonders who you sit with.

    Leave a comment:


  • Linkdeutscher
    replied
    Originally posted by slaveuk View Post
    Originally posted by Sis_Asiya View Post
    Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.
    its one rule that south asian parents know very well
    Thank their beautiful mathhab.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaveuk
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Sis_Asiya View Post
    Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.
    its one rule that south asian parents know very well

    Leave a comment:


  • Sis_Asiya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

    She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

    For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

    which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer

    Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.

    Leave a comment:


  • Linkdeutscher
    replied
    Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Marriage without wali (real wali) = zina

    Leave a comment:


  • Winter
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    :salams

    He's not as religious? What are we talking about here in regards to that? I mean does he pray 5 times a day, fast, give zakat/charity, follow some sunnah? The only difference being she maybe follows more sunnah stuff?

    I'd advise your friends to make a rash decision on this, its clear that she wants to get married and there is many difficulties her parents have/are causing her. If her fathers help in the Masjid why doesn't she get the local imam to talk to him?

    Leave a comment:


  • MyUsernameIs...
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Awkward position for you to be in.
    As much as I can sympathise with her ...and generally I don't feel she is in the wrong atall but it is still a bad idea to marry without the suppory system that are your parents.

    If her parents don't support her then of course other relatives will also follow suit. And knowing what the desi community is like it is a baaaaad idea to marry without a strong family support system.
    It could leave her open for being used & manipulated and she will undoubtedly face taunts by her in laws at some time or another of being a 'runaway bride' and the likes.
    Maybe I'm generalising a tad bit but I have known desis to be pretty vicious in this regard and I would never ever advise a woman to marry in the community without a strong family support system. Otherwise she will look like an open vulnerable target.

    In terms of the question asked in the op, I would personally go to the wedding, as she is a close friend ...but in terms of all the rituals which involve parents then no ...i would stay well away from them even if it does upset my friend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gingerbeardman
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Alina15 View Post
    Marriage is not valid only if the wali doesn't approve. The OP said that her brother is going to act as her wali.
    The wali is the father, unless a qadi (or shariah board or trustworthy sheikh in the west) disqualifies him.

    To the OP, it seems like she has done all she can be to be reasonable and her family are at fault, however marrying without the permission of the wali is not allowed but there is a way around this problem.

    She needs just a little more patience, to ask around locally and see if a shariah council or board who can hear her case, who can intervene with her father and tell him if he doesn't sort himself out they will remove him and put someone else in his place who will do his job.

    If there is no shariah council it will fall to the local imam to do this, if the local imam is not willing then she'll need to find someone else locally, a Sheikh or imam who can act on her behalf and appeal with her father to see reason or else lose his role in his daughters marriage as waliyah is a responsibility, he cannot just abuse it and expect no come back.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alina15
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by nami View Post
    Get the local imaam involved and get him to chat to the parents that islam sees no colour.

    I don't think her marriage will be a valid marriage if she doesn't have permission from he parents, so best to get the local imaam to knock some sense into the parents.

    Ofcourse, no one can stop her from marrying this person, but as far as I understand, the marriage will be invalid if the parents say no.

    So, if I were you, I'd get involved by chatting to the local imaam.

    Don't give up after one imaam, if one imaam fails, get another. If that imaam fails, get another, if that one fails too, then get another and only stop getting imaams until one is successful

    if you live in saudi, she could take her parents to islamic court, and if the judge does not see a valid reason for her parents to decline the marriage, the judge has power to over rule the parents right to say no to a marriage.

    Marriage is not valid only if the wali doesn't approve. The OP said that her brother is going to act as her wali.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alina15
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
    I wouldn't support her because while she gets married, the people that raised and supported her are not there when they should be.

    That's terrible, get the elders to pressurise the family if possible and she has to remember she wouldn't be the woman she is today if it wasn't for her parents raising her by the grace of Allah

    Single folks won't understand this until they are a parent themselves.
    It's true. Yet, it's so unfair. I mean, she is 30, she wants to get married, she found a man she likes and her parents don't support her because he has a BA and he is from another culture. Well, it's really not enough. It's her life and at 30 years old, she has the right to make some decisions on her future.

    Leave a comment:


  • slaveuk
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    I don't know the answer to this question however if the facts are as stated the Dhulm on this poor sister is terrible

    Leave a comment:


  • Ya'sin
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    I wouldn't support her because while she gets married, the people that raised and supported her are not there when they should be.

    That's terrible, get the elders to pressurise the family if possible and she has to remember she wouldn't be the woman she is today if it wasn't for her parents raising her by the grace of Allah

    Single folks won't understand this until they are a parent themselves.

    Leave a comment:

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