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Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

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  • Kya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Thanks for everyone's input. It gave me nice perspective & I think it is best for me to keep my distance. I will still attend the event and offer help if she specifically ask for something. But I won't go out of my way. I am hoping during Ramadan the family will sort their issue together.

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  • Kya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    It's possible that she is acting quick out of desperation. An Indian guy with a BS is a dime a dozen, just saying. Maybe in her culture over 30 is considered old. Still, she is top-notch (MD and practicing). I think she should wait a bit longer for the reasons said before.
    I am sure she did not like him because he has a BS or BA degree. I mentioned that only to show reasons why her parents are against him. I am sure she liked him for other (non education) reason. She loves hiking, biking, sky diving & other adventurous stuff that most desi people don't engage in. I am guessing that's where they connected & she figure she can spend her life with someone she shares lot of hobbies together even if they are professionally much different.

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  • nami
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Alina15 View Post
    Marriage is not valid only if the wali doesn't approve. The OP said that her brother is going to act as her wali.
    Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
    The wali is the father, unless a qadi (or shariah board or trustworthy sheikh in the west) disqualifies him.

    To the OP, it seems like she has done all she can be to be reasonable and her family are at fault, however marrying without the permission of the wali is not allowed but there is a way around this problem.

    She needs just a little more patience, to ask around locally and see if a shariah council or board who can hear her case, who can intervene with her father and tell him if he doesn't sort himself out they will remove him and put someone else in his place who will do his job.

    If there is no shariah council it will fall to the local imam to do this, if the local imam is not willing then she'll need to find someone else locally, a Sheikh or imam who can act on her behalf and appeal with her father to see reason or else lose his role in his daughters marriage as waliyah is a responsibility, he cannot just abuse it and expect no come back.
    [MENTION=132514]Alina15[/MENTION], please see [MENTION=99637]Gingerbeardman[/MENTION] 's reply.

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  • *Sweety*
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    Few questions came up about the guy. I want to point out, I don't know much about this guy. So I can't comment about him and please take my comments about him with grain of salt. I never met the guy, I might be wrong in saying he is not as religious as her. By that I don't mean he is not religious. I mean, as brother above posted, he most likely engages less in extra sunnah than her. She has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to following sunnah among my friends group, so I hold her at high value. The reason I said "he is not as practicing as her" is because when she described this brother to me, it didn't start with "mashallah he is very practicing" which normally is the first thing she looks at. Plus he didn't have beard in the picture I saw of him.

    I know there are several red flags from financial differences to cultural differences..etc but she is an adult who has lived and seen the world. I feel she should be able to make good decision & I don't feel like I should be yet another person putting negative thoughts in her head or questioning her judgment. Isn't that what friends are suppose to be for, to be there for each other regardless of whether you agree or not.
    If you don't know much about the guy why are you bad mouthing him? People on here will not be taking your comments about him with a grain of salt as you can see

    As for supporting, i'm also in a similar situation and her wedding is this sunday which i am going to

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  • Jade Vine
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

    She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

    For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

    which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer
    The only thing worth looking into here is him being not as pious as her. If I was her, I would research this thoroughly and find out where I stand. And then and only then, if that is no problem, she should get married as their parents for some reason seem not to like to see her married.

    edit: I would advise her to look into the other differences as well (reasonable, without any emotions if possible).
    Last edited by Jade Vine; 20-05-16, 07:44 AM.

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  • Sister_2009
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Alina15 View Post
    Probably. But due to the fact that men believe that a 30 years old woman is old, when women reach that age, they get married out of desperation, sometimes, and they become less flexible towards their parents I guess.
    It's possible that she is acting quick out of desperation. An Indian guy with a BS is a dime a dozen, just saying. Maybe in her culture over 30 is considered old. Still, she is top-notch (MD and practicing). I think she should wait a bit longer for the reasons said before.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alina15
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Sister_2009 View Post
    There is nothing special about him that she cannot find in someone else.
    Probably. But due to the fact that men believe that a 30 years old woman is old, when women reach that age, they get married out of desperation, sometimes, and they become less flexible towards their parents I guess.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sabros
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    Few questions came up about the guy. I want to point out, I don't know much about this guy. So I can't comment about him and please take my comments about him with grain of salt. I never met the guy, I might be wrong in saying he is not as religious as her. By that I don't mean he is not religious. I mean, as brother above posted, he most likely engages less in extra sunnah than her. She has always been ahead of the curve when it comes to following sunnah among my friends group, so I hold her at high value. The reason I said "he is not as practicing as her" is because when she described this brother to me, it didn't start with "mashallah he is very practicing" which normally is the first thing she looks at. Plus he didn't have beard in the picture I saw of him.

    I know there are several red flags from financial differences to cultural differences..etc but she is an adult who has lived and seen the world. I feel she should be able to make good decision & I don't feel like I should be yet another person putting negative thoughts in her head or questioning her judgment. Isn't that what friends are suppose to be for, to be there for each other regardless of whether you agree or not.
    I was supporting her until you made this post.
    Your friend should be wary. So many incompatibilities and red flags.

    Question: why on earth is the guy and his family so shamelessly pursuing her after the rejection? I mean if they had a relationship or were in 'love' or something I would understand. But this is just some guy she kinda knows right? Is his family just desperate? (I know in US muslim community is spread out and people have difficulty in marrying)

    A poor friend will nod their head, say 'you go girl', turn up and eat the wedding food - and then when problems start happening they shrug their shoulders, mouth platitudes and disappear
    A good friend will analyse this properly and slap some sense in her if needs be. Her parents are wrong in delaying her marriage. But is this guy and his family really the ones she should marry?

    It's a good thing she is aggressive and active now. But have any of her friends helped her? Asked their parents to help? Ask elders and mosque leaders to help?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sister_2009
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Thanks for expanding upon the nature of the guy. Reading through all of this, if I were her friend, I would have to advise her not to go ahead as it stands. I have no doubt that she is an intelligent woman, as I know from your posts that you are as well, and you two are friends. There is nothing special about him that she cannot find in someone else. I don't think that she should wait for her parents to find someone, but I also feel that if she waits a bit longer and keeps looking on her own, she will find someone who meets both her and her parents' needs. I don't feel this is a good way to begin married life. I think she should keep looking, and I wish her the best. You're a good friend to seek advice :)

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  • noobz
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    is this a secret wedding or something?

    cause we know how those secret weddings end up.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazZ-
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Ya'sin View Post
    A degree is common now and this isn't about education, this is about one's wisdom. What is education if it doesn't give you common sense or any valuable lessons about life? You can have a degree and be a complete numpty when he comes to these things because the best knowledge is divine knowledge that can only be sought with patience.

    Kya, has your friend tried to pray ishtikhaara? looks like she has already made a decision so it's best to ask Allah by peforming this prayer and see how she feels about her decision afterwards.

    She doesn't have to abandon her parents for this Bengali cultural garbage, that can be done by her speaking up without a degree.

    Hope things work out for the better.
    Not an MD. That and the fact that this lady is a practicing muslim woman. That is not a common sight at all. I can assure you of that.

    Rest of your post implies that the lady in question is stupid and can't make right decisions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ya'sin
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by TazZ- View Post
    I'll definitely support her.

    Tell her to get a imam involved immediately that will be sympathetic to her pleas. Please read this article and forward it to your friend. http://www.central-mosque.com/index....i-consent.html


    Your friend is not stupid. She has a degree that few people posses.On top of that she is a practicing individual.She knows her rights very well. She also knows the fact that her biological clock is ticking and the more she waits,the harder it becomes for her to find someone suitable. Thankfully she is living in North America where the cultural bengali garbage won't really affect her.

    Best of luck to your friend.It is good to see educated women taking things under their control and doing something.
    A degree is common now and this isn't about education, this is about one's wisdom. What is education if it doesn't give you common sense or any valuable lessons about life? You can have a degree and be a complete numpty when he comes to these things because the best knowledge is divine knowledge that can only be sought with patience.

    Kya, has your friend tried to pray ishtikhaara? looks like she has already made a decision so it's best to ask Allah by peforming this prayer and see how she feels about her decision afterwards.

    She doesn't have to abandon her parents for this Bengali cultural garbage, that can be done by her speaking up without a degree.

    Hope things work out for the better.

    Leave a comment:


  • TazZ-
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    I'll definitely support her.

    Tell her to get a imam involved immediately that will be sympathetic to her pleas. Please read this article and forward it to your friend. http://www.central-mosque.com/index....i-consent.html


    Your friend is not stupid. She has a degree that few people posses.On top of that she is a practicing individual.She knows her rights very well. She also knows the fact that her biological clock is ticking and the more she waits,the harder it becomes for her to find someone suitable. Thankfully she is living in North America where the cultural bengali garbage won't really affect her.

    Best of luck to your friend.It is good to see educated women taking things under their control and doing something.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinobot
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

    She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

    For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

    which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer
    A marriage without a wali is invalid. Looks like her religiousity has not taught her nothing. A marriage without the blessing of parents has no barakah as well. So she clearly has more love for this guy she met recently than her own parents.

    May allah protect us and our children from such attitudes

    OP your friend is doomed if she goes ahead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by MyUsernameIs... View Post
    Awkward position for you to be in.

    If her parents don't support her then of course other relatives will also follow suit. And knowing what the desi community is like it is a baaaaad idea to marry without a strong family support system.

    In terms of the question asked in the op, I would personally go to the wedding, as she is a close friend ...but in terms of all the rituals which involve parents then no ...i would stay well away from them even if it does upset my friend.
    Excellent point about support in desi community. I agree & I actually discouraged her from getting her future father in law too involved in helping her change her parents mind. She was thinking of having his father tell her father the date they choose for nikkah. My worry is, if her parents are extreme rude to his parents then years later when things get better (because they always do), her inlaws will remember the initial treatment. So its better she solves her family problem without their involvement.

    He & his parents are willing to help any way they can to convince her parents otherwise. They made 3 hr trip to visit & took the rejection and willing to have more meetings. Surely her other relatives (aunt/uncles) will not be attending either if the parents don't. She also is not close to any of her extended family as she has been living away for her studies for almost a decade. So it doesn't matter too much to her.

    At first I thought she was using this as scare tactic for her parents so they get their act straight. But then I realize she is serious. We still have Ramadan, I am hoping either she changes her mind or her parents jump on board. In the mean time, I will check myself & not get too involved.

    Leave a comment:

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