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Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

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  • Dinobot
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by In my Opinion View Post
    You haven't said what a single Muslim woman is to do if there are no mosque, imam or any other male family members around.

    I suppose she is to fast for the rest of her life?

    Your comparison to a poor man wanting to marry is silly. These men who went to the Prophrt were probably just after sex... What if a wealthier woman was willing to marry a poor man who had good intentions? After all, was the profit not poor when Khadijah approached him?

    The lady in question is no teenager on hormones, she's a grown woman who wants a family!

    Your right Islam is easy. It's people like you that make it complicated.
    I don't deal with pointless assumptions and theories. You can find muslims in japan and in the amazon jungles itself. So stop wasting my time. You will find an imam and a mosque or a community.

    There is no nikkah without a wali as the prophet said. No ifs no buts. Don't bring Khadijah into it. She married the prophet way before islam was even introduced by the prophet. If you are desperate for sex so much that you can't be bothered to look for a wali, that's your problem. But don't come over here and tell muslim girls to break their religious requirements just to get in bed with someone. Those men who wanted to marry a woman without fulfilling their religious requirements were denied marriage by the prophet themselves. You say they are looking for sex. May be may be not. But they wanted to marry and they were companions. No special priviledged were given.

    So trust me you ain't getting one either. So go right ahead. Live in zina all your life. I couldn't care less if you ended in jahanam. But don't mislead genuine muslim girls here.

    Leave a comment:


  • In my Opinion
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Ibn Taleb View Post
    in islam if this happens then the sharia court transfers her guardianship to other male members of her family because her parents failed in this responsibility..
    Yes, but what if there is no sharia court? Muslims die single?

    Leave a comment:


  • In my Opinion
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
    No. It's you who is extreme. You are basically saying its fine for a girl to break the rule of wali coz of 'opression' islam is not meant to be hard. That's why the muslim woman has the means to change her wali within legitimate ways if the parents are with holding marriage for unreasonable reasons. Islam provides within it's fiqh. But it has to be followed. In this day and age of globalisation where muslims can be found in jungles of mexico all the way to even japan you can't tell me oh we can't find anyone so I am gonna what I want.

    Many muslims including men came to the prophet saying they wish to marry but they cannot afford the dowry or the means. Did you think the prophet said, oh dear poor men with your frustrated sexual desires and oppressive demands of the women, don't worry. I will waive of the dowry and men's responsibilities. Ofcourse not. He said.Go and fast. That's it. He didn't create any excuses for them.

    And yet you havethe audacity to suggest a woman can simply marry without a wali. You have to be a kaffir to go against the words of the prophet who said no nikkah without a wali. I am not going to call you a kaffir. But what you have said and you repeatedly have said has no basis in this religion. In the end though you can do what you like. There are a muslims out there who drink alcohol commit zina and do all sorts but they are not kaffirs because they know they are sinning.

    And then we have people like you who dispute the word of his messenger by offering excuses. That is clear kufr and much much worse
    You haven't said what a single Muslim woman is to do if there are no mosque, imam or any other male family members around.

    I suppose she is to fast for the rest of her life?

    Your comparison to a poor man wanting to marry is silly. These men who went to the Prophrt were probably just after sex... What if a wealthier woman was willing to marry a poor man who had good intentions? After all, was the profit not poor when Khadijah approached him?

    The lady in question is no teenager on hormones, she's a grown woman who wants a family!

    Your right Islam is easy. It's people like you that make it complicated.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ibn Taleb
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by In my Opinion View Post
    In some places there are no mosques or imams and it would be absurd if a females parents didn't want her to marry at all. In fact, I would say that is oppression. Oppression is not a part of Islam, even when it comes from your own parents.

    The people that didn't marry, did so out of choice... Not because it was forced upon them. To marry, be sexually active and want children is a basic human instinct... It's not a selfish desire.

    You need to grow up and stop thinking in black and white. Not all parents are perfect in the same way your thoughts aren't. This girls parents are probably extreme for all we know. You certainly sound extreme and that is not a part of Islam.
    in islam if this happens then the sharia court transfers her guardianship to other male members of her family because her parents failed in this responsibility..

    Leave a comment:


  • Ibn Taleb
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    The Laws of Allah swt cover everything ...

    the parents are definitely in error and have failed there responsibilities towards their child ... she should transfer the guardianship to an uncle or some

    mahram which is possible through court if ur in a muslim country or maybe an imam but without a wali her marriage is void and not an actual marraige and

    anything they do together is zina (we seek refuge in Allah swt)

    Leave a comment:


  • Dedication
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Her parents were probably making very unnecessary demands if she is single at 32 years old Subhanallah.

    Complicated situation I suppose, I'm not sure.

    Leave a comment:


  • F_R
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    I would never support it unless the parents know. Parents must be in the loop coz this isn't a small thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Inquisitive10
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    I would only blame the women for having left it a bit late and not take action much sooner, at the end of the day it's her life that will be affected for the course of her short time in this world, I wouldn't leave that in the hands of anyone, I am open for advise, guidance or alternative, if none of these can be provided, I will take action, regardless whether my parents are happy about it or not, that's not my concern so long as I remain good to them and full-fill my religious obligations.

    This disease seems to only affect the Asian communities much more then others, I cannot fathom in any universe how my mother or father can dictate to me who I can and whom I can't get married to, it's absolutely absurd, it's something they would never even bring up in a conversation, the above sounds like a complete backward type of culture bereft of any sense of personal choice and even strips away masculinity of male's whom need approval, times like these I am grateful my parents are not primitive degenerate overlords, I fear I would rebel beyond limits and end up in hell for it, just reading it raised my blood pressure, seriously?

    Leave a comment:


  • shann
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    No, it turns into a mess.

    Leave a comment:


  • MuslimBro17
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

    She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

    For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

    which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer
    The mother has no legal say in this matter. The opinion of the father must be sought first because its not good to hold assumption.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinobot
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by In my Opinion View Post
    In some places there are no mosques or imams and it would be absurd if a females parents didn't want her to marry at all. In fact, I would say that is oppression. Oppression is not a part of Islam, even when it comes from your own parents.

    The people that didn't marry, did so out of choice... Not because it was forced upon them. To marry, be sexually active and want children is a basic human instinct... It's not a selfish desire.

    You need to grow up and stop thinking in black and white. Not all parents are perfect in the same way your thoughts aren't. This girls parents are probably extreme for all we know. You certainly sound extreme and that is not a part of Islam.
    No. It's you who is extreme. You are basically saying its fine for a girl to break the rule of wali coz of 'opression' islam is not meant to be hard. That's why the muslim woman has the means to change her wali within legitimate ways if the parents are with holding marriage for unreasonable reasons. Islam provides within it's fiqh. But it has to be followed. In this day and age of globalisation where muslims can be found in jungles of mexico all the way to even japan you can't tell me oh we can't find anyone so I am gonna what I want.

    Many muslims including men came to the prophet saying they wish to marry but they cannot afford the dowry or the means. Did you think the prophet said, oh dear poor men with your frustrated sexual desires and oppressive demands of the women, don't worry. I will waive of the dowry and men's responsibilities. Ofcourse not. He said.Go and fast. That's it. He didn't create any excuses for them.

    And yet you havethe audacity to suggest a woman can simply marry without a wali. You have to be a kaffir to go against the words of the prophet who said no nikkah without a wali. I am not going to call you a kaffir. But what you have said and you repeatedly have said has no basis in this religion. In the end though you can do what you like. There are a muslims out there who drink alcohol commit zina and do all sorts but they are not kaffirs because they know they are sinning.

    And then we have people like you who dispute the word of his messenger by offering excuses. That is clear kufr and much much worse
    Last edited by Dinobot; 17-06-16, 09:38 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • In my Opinion
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Dinobot View Post
    As usual you give wrong advice to people. Asking a woman to break off and go against her wali rendering her marriage a zina relationship. Then again I get a sneaking suspicion religion matters little to you. If that is true, I suggest you go to other forums where your kind is more welcome



    Oh what a sorry excuse. If the parents and the imam of the masjid all happen to agree, what difference a sharia court is going to make unless it's a massive disservice or harm the wali and the imam are commiting. You're excuse seems to be basically I wanna have sex and I need it bad hence I wanna marry as soon as possible. And if I break the wali rules so be it. What use is a marriage like that with no barakah and basically zina in the eyes of Allah? Is that worth it? Not in a million years.

    Imam bukhari, taymiyaah and dozens of scholars of islam never got married. Better muslims than this lady never got married. Marriage is not fard. It's Sunnah. And you do not commit a Sunnah by breaking a part of the sunnah
    In some places there are no mosques or imams and it would be absurd if a females parents didn't want her to marry at all. In fact, I would say that is oppression. Oppression is not a part of Islam, even when it comes from your own parents.

    The people that didn't marry, did so out of choice... Not because it was forced upon them. To marry, be sexually active and want children is a basic human instinct... It's not a selfish desire.

    You need to grow up and stop thinking in black and white. Not all parents are perfect in the same way your thoughts aren't. This girls parents are probably extreme for all we know. You certainly sound extreme and that is not a part of Islam.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinobot
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by In my Opinion View Post
    Hmm, only you know how your friend is.

    I have friends who often make the wrong decisions and I also have friends who think things through and make the best possible decisions based on their circumstances. I'm guessing she is in the latter.

    My only concern would be how well she knows this man. If she knows him fairly well, then she should go for it. Otherwise I would tread carefully. And she should look into a prenup.

    I'm really baffled as to why the parents are doing nothing. If she's the only child and a doctor... I can only guess it's for the dollars.
    As usual you give wrong advice to people. Asking a woman to break off and go against her wali rendering her marriage a zina relationship. Then again I get a sneaking suspicion religion matters little to you. If that is true, I suggest you go to other forums where your kind is more welcome

    Originally posted by One girl View Post
    But what would you suggest she do in this situation? Say there's no sharia court around you as you don't live in an Islamic country, you're a 32 year old female who also has desires (not only men do) and your religion is at stake. You want to enjoy the pleasure of marriage too and menopause is knocking, you have a brother you like to consider but your parents say NO. You have spoken to them several times and even gotten family members / imam to do the same. I reserve my comment about her decision, but what would you do? Stay single forever if they do not agree? Enlighten me
    Oh what a sorry excuse. If the parents and the imam of the masjid all happen to agree, what difference a sharia court is going to make unless it's a massive disservice or harm the wali and the imam are commiting. You're excuse seems to be basically I wanna have sex and I need it bad hence I wanna marry as soon as possible. And if I break the wali rules so be it. What use is a marriage like that with no barakah and basically zina in the eyes of Allah? Is that worth it? Not in a million years.

    Imam bukhari, taymiyaah and dozens of scholars of islam never got married. Better muslims than this lady never got married. Marriage is not fard. It's Sunnah. And you do not commit a Sunnah by breaking a part of the sunnah

    Leave a comment:


  • In my Opinion
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by Kya View Post
    No she is not the only child. She is the only daughter and the eldest kid. But she has 2 younger brother. One of her brother went in to medical school but recently dropped out. The other brother is in engineering school. So the parents have other kids, boys, to take care of them. I don't think its the money, they might just be those type of parents that are afraid to take risk. I had an uncle like that who was so afraid of getting his daughter married to the wrong guy that he avoided getting her married until everyone put pressure on him. He found flaws in every guy & everyone was high risk. I don't know, I feel bad cuz I visit her parents every year. They seem like nice people, maybe bit too chilled out. I feel bad that her brothers are not supporting her. They were so close & I would feel comfortable if her blood wali (brother) were present.

    Prenup - only covers asset one has before marriage. Any money she earns during marriage "western ideology" belongs to both of them. As recent medical graduate, she doesn't have any money walking into marriage. But she will make 10x more than him during marriage. Prenup is not going to help if things go south in future. Inshallah I pray it doesn't. I feel so uneasy with this wedding, a part of me dies every time I think about it
    Of course, I forgot about the brothers.

    Is the guy high risk? In that looking for green card etc?

    Do you think your friend could be doing this out of desperation due to her age? To anger her parents? Or does she genuinely believe this is the right man? I would also suggest her to read Istikhara. I feel for her as she's clearly not had much support and I know how hard it is to meet a nice Muslim guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kya
    replied
    Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

    Originally posted by In my Opinion View Post

    I'm really baffled as to why the parents are doing nothing. If she's the only child and a doctor... I can only guess it's for the dollars.
    No she is not the only child. She is the only daughter and the eldest kid. But she has 2 younger brother. One of her brother went in to medical school but recently dropped out. The other brother is in engineering school. So the parents have other kids, boys, to take care of them. I don't think its the money, they might just be those type of parents that are afraid to take risk. I had an uncle like that who was so afraid of getting his daughter married to the wrong guy that he avoided getting her married until everyone put pressure on him. He found flaws in every guy & everyone was high risk. I don't know, I feel bad cuz I visit her parents every year. They seem like nice people, maybe bit too chilled out. I feel bad that her brothers are not supporting her. They were so close & I would feel comfortable if her blood wali (brother) were present.

    Prenup - only covers asset one has before marriage. Any money she earns during marriage "western ideology" belongs to both of them. As recent medical graduate, she doesn't have any money walking into marriage. But she will make 10x more than him during marriage. Prenup is not going to help if things go south in future. Inshallah I pray it doesn't. I feel so uneasy with this wedding, a part of me dies every time I think about it

    Leave a comment:

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