Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

[Kya]

I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer

[Alina15]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree).

Well, the reasons why her parents are rejecting him are futile and, in part, even unislamic. I would definitely support her!

[nami]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer

Get the local imaam involved and get him to chat to the parents that islam sees no colour.

I don't think her marriage will be a valid marriage if she doesn't have permission from he parents, so best to get the local imaam to knock some sense into the parents.

Ofcourse, no one can stop her from marrying this person, but as far as I understand, the marriage will be invalid if the parents say no.

So, if I were you, I'd get involved by chatting to the local imaam.

Don't give up after one imaam, if one imaam fails, get another. If that imaam fails, get another, if that one fails too, then get another and only stop getting imaams until one is successful

if you live in saudi, she could take her parents to islamic court, and if the judge does not see a valid reason for her parents to decline the marriage, the judge has power to over rule the parents right to say no to a marriage.

[Ya'sin]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

I wouldn't support her because while she gets married, the people that raised and supported her are not there when they should be.

That's terrible, get the elders to pressurise the family if possible and she has to remember she wouldn't be the woman she is today if it wasn't for her parents raising her by the grace of Allah

Single folks won't understand this until they are a parent themselves.

[slaveuk]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

I don't know the answer to this question however if the facts are as stated the Dhulm on this poor sister is terrible

[Alina15]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

I wouldn't support her because while she gets married, the people that raised and supported her are not there when they should be.

That's terrible, get the elders to pressurise the family if possible and she has to remember she wouldn't be the woman she is today if it wasn't for her parents raising her by the grace of Allah

Single folks won't understand this until they are a parent themselves.

It's true. Yet, it's so unfair. I mean, she is 30, she wants to get married, she found a man she likes and her parents don't support her because he has a BA and he is from another culture. Well, it's really not enough. It's her life and at 30 years old, she has the right to make some decisions on her future.

[Alina15]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Get the local imaam involved and get him to chat to the parents that islam sees no colour.

I don't think her marriage will be a valid marriage if she doesn't have permission from he parents, so best to get the local imaam to knock some sense into the parents.

Ofcourse, no one can stop her from marrying this person, but as far as I understand, the marriage will be invalid if the parents say no.

So, if I were you, I'd get involved by chatting to the local imaam.

Don't give up after one imaam, if one imaam fails, get another. If that imaam fails, get another, if that one fails too, then get another and only stop getting imaams until one is successful

if you live in saudi, she could take her parents to islamic court, and if the judge does not see a valid reason for her parents to decline the marriage, the judge has power to over rule the parents right to say no to a marriage.

Marriage is not valid only if the wali doesn't approve. The OP said that her brother is going to act as her wali.

[Gingerbeardman]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Marriage is not valid only if the wali doesn't approve. The OP said that her brother is going to act as her wali.

The wali is the father, unless a qadi (or shariah board or trustworthy sheikh in the west) disqualifies him.

To the OP, it seems like she has done all she can be to be reasonable and her family are at fault, however marrying without the permission of the wali is not allowed but there is a way around this problem.

She needs just a little more patience, to ask around locally and see if a shariah council or board who can hear her case, who can intervene with her father and tell him if he doesn't sort himself out they will remove him and put someone else in his place who will do his job.

If there is no shariah council it will fall to the local imam to do this, if the local imam is not willing then she'll need to find someone else locally, a Sheikh or imam who can act on her behalf and appeal with her father to see reason or else lose his role in his daughters marriage as waliyah is a responsibility, he cannot just abuse it and expect no come back.

[MyUsernameIs...]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Awkward position for you to be in.
As much as I can sympathise with her ...and generally I don't feel she is in the wrong atall but it is still a bad idea to marry without the suppory system that are your parents.

If her parents don't support her then of course other relatives will also follow suit. And knowing what the desi community is like it is a baaaaad idea to marry without a strong family support system.
It could leave her open for being used & manipulated and she will undoubtedly face taunts by her in laws at some time or another of being a 'runaway bride' and the likes.
Maybe I'm generalising a tad bit but I have known desis to be pretty vicious in this regard and I would never ever advise a woman to marry in the community without a strong family support system. Otherwise she will look like an open vulnerable target.

In terms of the question asked in the op, I would personally go to the wedding, as she is a close friend ...but in terms of all the rituals which involve parents then no ...i would stay well away from them even if it does upset my friend.

[Winter]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

:salams

He's not as religious? What are we talking about here in regards to that? I mean does he pray 5 times a day, fast, give zakat/charity, follow some sunnah? The only difference being she maybe follows more sunnah stuff?

I'd advise your friends to make a rash decision on this, its clear that she wants to get married and there is many difficulties her parents have/are causing her. If her fathers help in the Masjid why doesn't she get the local imam to talk to him?

[Linkdeutscher]

Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Marriage without wali (real wali) = zina

[Sis_Asiya]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

I have a friend who has decided she is getting married with or without her parents support. She is a close friend of mine. I always envision I will help out a lot at her wedding as she doesn't have any sisters & is the oldest among her siblings. But due to her parents situation, I am not sure how involved I want to be. One hand she is a good friend of mine and I want to help her start her new life. I am really happy for her. On the other hand, I don't want her parents pointing finger at me saying "this girl helped my daughter make a big mistake". We are all adults so pointing finger at this stage is silly but I understand where the parents are coming from.

She is 30, a medical doctor in usa, hijabi, wears abaya most of the time, very pious/practicing. Basically a perfect girl. She has been ready to get married for while. But her parents were dragging their feet. Not sure the full reason, maybe because she is the only daughter or maybe they were greedy which is surprising because her dad is heavy involved with masjid. I know she broke thru her shyness at 25 & had a talk with her mom about finding someone for her to get married to. Her mom's response always been "I am praying and waiting for the right guy".

For 5 years they have been waiting for the perfect guy even when she told them she is wiling to look into less than perfect (i.e non-doc/PhD) guy but her parents still claim there is no one available. She is lot more aggressive than her mom, so she networked & recently an aunty at masjid introduced her to another lady who is looking for her son. She informed her parents about this. Her parents, as usual, choose to ignore & take idle route. She went ahead and talked to him & really liked him. So she informed them again and gave them a timeline to find alternative prospect or she will move forward. His parents talked to her parents who flat out rejected because he is not from same race as her (she is Bangali, he is Indian), he is not as educated as her (She is M.D and he only has BS degree). I don't think he is as pious/practicing as her either but she feels he is right for her & if she leaves it to her parents she might never get married. So she told them she is moving forward with or without. She will force her brothers to be her wali. The parents have option to join or ignore.

which comes back to my question, how involved would you be? I will be at her wedding/nikkah regardless but lot of the family tradition that parents carry out in Banagali culture (like take breakfast the morning after, mehindi event, send decorative food on nikkah day/paan taals/misti taals..etc) wouldn't happen. So its upto us to either carry those on or let her feel the lack of parents in the event. I am sure she will feel it either way but we will just make it little bit nicer

Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.

[slaveuk]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.

its one rule that south asian parents know very well

[Linkdeutscher]

Islam is clear a woman cannot have a valid nikkah without a wali.

its one rule that south asian parents know very well

Thank their beautiful mathhab.

[slaveuk]

Re: Would you support friend marrying without parents permission?

Thank their beautiful mathhab.

Actually brother most of them do NOT apply the Hanafi Madhab in this case.

And be careful of using ironic terms like "beautiful madhab" as though it is something bad. None of the Ulema including those who you probably hold in high esteem, as most of us do, have used sarcasm to describe the madhaahib. Learn some manners and surround yourself with good company. Honestly some of your posts are so rude and lacking in basic etiquette one wonders who you sit with.