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  • #16
    Re: marriage valid?

    Originally posted by anon1992 View Post
    assalaam,
    im 23 years old female and i married a guy who had converted to islam 2 years ago without the knowledge of my parents. they have no idea. the wali was a man my husband knew from the mosque and there were two witnesses as well. but i realize i made a mistake, i want a divorce but he wouldnt give me. i want a khula but i dont know how as there are no legal documents. we just signed some papers tthat we got printed off the internet. was the marriage even valid? how do i get out of it?
    Most likely not, since even in hanafi fiqh marriage without wali is only valid if it is in the kufu level as urs,
    But again I'm no mufti better ask a qualified mufti , people here most r just gonna throw opinions from here and there,
    Plus not just anyone can be ur wali, it's specified in an order..

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    • #17
      Re: marriage valid?

      Originally posted by Gingerbeardman View Post
      wa alaykumus salaam,

      Are you from a Muslim family? is your wali Muslim?

      If so it's possible (but by no means definite) your nikkah is not valid, and you would need to renew it to stay in this marriage anyway to be safer and follow the stronger opinion as Rasoolullah (sallallahu alayhi wa salam) said:

      “Any woman who gets married without the permission of her wali, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid, her marriage is invalid. If her husband has consummated the marriage, then the mahr belongs to her in return for that. If she does not have a wali then the (Muslim) ruler is the wali of anyone who does not have a wali.”

      Narrated and classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, 1102; Abu Dawood, 2083; Ibn Maajah, 1879

      Sisters cannot just randomly decide to have someone else as her wali, and the brothers involved in this should fear Allaah, waliyah is a serious responsibility, not some game people play with.

      There is a hanafi opinion (rejected even by many hanafis) that a woman does not need a wali to marry, however it's rejected for good reason as the evidence is overwhelmingly against it from the Quran and sunnah. However some scholars state that if a woman marries, thinking the nikkah is valid, i.e according to the hanafi view, then her nikkah is still valid, but it is better she renews it.

      But that doesn't seem to be the case here, you've just allowed this brother to play you a fool in this case and now you need to fix the situation.

      If you are in the UK I'd advise you to contact the Shariah Council straight away, ask for a verdict on whether you nikkah is valid first of all, and if they rule it is, to rule for khula in your favour if you request it. Now, it can take months, especially if brothers just to drag the process out by not replying to letters, phone calls etc.

      But eventually they'll usually allow khula if a woman demands it.
      If u do not know hanafi fiqh and don't know how to understand evidence then better not talk about it,
      Coz even according to hanafi such nikkah is not valid, as even in hanafi fiqh it requires equality in status and kufu

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      • #18
        Re: marriage valid?

        i have o thn ga divorce? even if the marriage in invalid?

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        • #19
          Re: marriage valid?

          i dont know any islamic courts nearby. if the marriage is invalid, what should i do? leave it at that?

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          • #20
            Re: marriage valid?

            Originally posted by anon1992 View Post
            i have o thn ga divorce? even if the marriage in invalid?
            You have to go to a scholar and explain your situation to him.

            And a non-Hanafi scholar.
            You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

            You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: marriage valid?

              :start:



              Originally posted by anon1992 View Post
              i dont know any islamic courts nearby. if the marriage is invalid, what should i do? leave it at that?
              1. Do you know if you have a legal marriage according to India's law? Because if the papers that you signed from the Internet were legal papers (and of which you presently seem to have no knowledge in regards to what type of papers you signed) and were registered with the court, then you have a legal Indian marriage. If that is the case, you or your husband should also have a marriage certificate. Do you know if there was a marriage certificate? Because in that case, you will have to nullify the marriage through divorce papers.

              2. Islamically, you might have a valid nikah as India is a country that predominantly follows the Hanafi madhab. Here, no one can speak about your situation as we are Muslim laypersons and not a scholar.

              3. Please consult a local Islamic scholar or even your local Imam at the mosque to see if a fatwa can be obtained from reliable sources for your specific situation and then act accordingly.

              4) Please introspect and think rationally and deliberate long and hard about your choices, because once you obtain a fatwa on what should be done Islamically - either proper Islamic divorce or moving forward if the nikah is invalid depending on entirety of the situation that you will be able to explain in detail, please understand that the man who converted to Islam might not keep his Islam perhaps due to your betrayal of your secret marriage.

              5) Also, due to conservative culture reigning in India, if word ever gets out about your previous nikah - valid or not, you and your parents will likely face a very tough time in regards to any future marriage prospects and also honor-shaming. Consider this possibility also before making any decisions.

              :insha: you are able to take the best step for you in regards to your future.

              :wswrwb:
              The Prophet :saw:: I have been sent to perfect noble character. (Sunan Al-Bayhaqee: 21301)
              The Prophet :saw:: Whoever gives fatwa without knowledge, the angels of the heaven and the earth curse him (Asakir al-Suyuti, Habaik p. 187 #694).
              Against Evil: ISIS/ISIL/Daesh/Al-Dawla/Islamic State (Various Sources)

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              • #22
                Re: marriage valid?

                Originally posted by anon1992 View Post
                no im not in UK, and i dont know of any place i can go in india to get it done. i feel preposterous for taking such an action and none of my family members even have a clue about it. i really really want to gt out of this marriage if its valid. and repent to Allah if its not valid. i am from a muslim family. and ive been begging that guy to divorce me for a year and a half but he just wont.
                Check with the imam but your marriage is not valid because you did not even inform your father...It is disgusting that the imam did not even ask where your father was or why this man was posing as your wali? Is this how easy it is to marry ? You need to repent because you have been commiting zina..
                Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

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                • #23
                  Re: marriage valid?

                  Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                  Check with the imam but your marriage is not valid because you did not even inform your father...It is disgusting that the imam did not even ask where your father was or why this man was posing as your wali? Is this how easy it is to marry ? You need to repent because you have been commiting zina..
                  Anyone can be an "imam". The whole thing was a sham she was willing to partake in. I'd suggest talking to a legitimate imam along with your parents about your situation. For next time, recognize that any man willing to marry you in secrecy is also not worth marrying. Repent to Allah and do things properly next time.

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                  • #24
                    Re: marriage valid?

                    Originally posted by frustrated101 View Post
                    Anyone can be an "imam". The whole thing was a sham she was willing to partake in. I'd suggest talking to a legitimate imam along with your parents about your situation. For next time, recognize that any man willing to marry you in secrecy is also not worth marrying. Repent to Allah and do things properly next time.
                    Money talks.
                    You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                    You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: marriage valid?

                      Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                      Money talks.
                      Definitely, and it's disgusting that this happens. We're 3 days into 2016 and I don't think I'll see another thread that gets me as riled up as this one has. I've got two little sisters and imagining them going through this fills me with rage. I feel sorry for her family when they hear about this. Also don't keep this "marriage" a secret from the next guy you're interested in.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: marriage valid?

                        Originally posted by frustrated101 View Post
                        Definitely, and it's disgusting that this happens. We're 3 days into 2016 and I don't think I'll see another thread that gets me as riled up as this one has. I've got two little sisters and imagining them going through this fills me with rage. I feel sorry for her family when they hear about this. Also don't keep this "marriage" a secret from the next guy you're interested in.
                        You still haven't heard of halala cases...
                        You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                        You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: marriage valid?

                          Originally posted by Linkdeutscher View Post
                          You still haven't heard of halala cases...
                          Akhi, if it's as horrible as this story then I don't think I want to know about it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: marriage valid?

                            Originally posted by frustrated101 View Post
                            Akhi, if it's as horrible as this story then I don't think I want to know about it.
                            This story is not even close...like light years away akhi.
                            You think you know more than my scholar's qiyās? He was more learned than you and all other scholars combined. Yeah, the devil was the greatest scholar too and look where his qiyās of fire being better than tīn got him. Sorry.

                            You follow your scholar's qiyās, and I will follow the Qur'ān and Sunnah.

                            Comment

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