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  • Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

    Assalamualaikum,

    Im very grieved in heart and feeling miserable and not able to do anything with regards to dunya or akhirah since society is treating me like a criminal and when I read about divorce in Islam online, all I hear is that its a grave sin. What i read is everything should be tried n exhausted before considering it. You will read below what happened and at the end I could not go for any professional counselling or trust her and give her more time coz i had lost feelings for her completely, faced safety issues and verbal and emotional abuse(and i am sensitive by nature).

    But when i read these things online that divorce without trying more n more n more to do everything u can under the sun and just try and save the marriage and make it work, i feel very very guilty that i didnt do that and hence committed a major grave sin which Allah will hold me for on the day of judgement.

    We were married around 10 years back.

    Problems were due the following main reason:

    1. She didnt give me respect of a husband because I earned less.
    2. Incompatibility between us with regard to goals of marriage. Love, affection and emotional support were my goals and good social image of a great daughter in law was her priority.

    So in the marriage when I didnt get those, my life was miserable and she was content coz she got the good social image( unfortunately in our culture the daughter in law is respected based on how sweet mouthed and affectionate she is with relatives and not based on how well she treats her husband in marriage.)

    So the way our marriage was going on was me getting depressed and sick in bed for living in an unhappy marriage while she was laughing around with all the relatives and having delicious meal parties.

    We lived in a joint family and I had just finished college and starting to work. I wanted to do Nikah since it was difficult to stay away from haram. I was trying my best to follow Sunnah and shariah. My parents had no problems with me marrying as our family was financially well off.

    This was known to the girl's family that financially the family is strong BUT the son is just starting to work.

    I was struggling with career and my mom passed away. Till my mom was alive, she behaved herself. She didnt deny intimacy but I felt she hardly has any desires or interest in a physical relationship.

    She was a traditional managed kind of girl and as long as my mom was an elder in the house and supported me, she showed respect for me.

    I wanted her to do complete purdah and she obliged.

    When my mom passed away, the complete control was in the hands of my father.

    My father and me had problems and i was weak in the house. She started disrespecting me and removed me from the place of a husband.

    She became critical. Didnt support me when i was down. Didnt appreciate when i did good. Denied physical intimacy and had problems with me asking her to do purdah from family non mehram's. We used to fight a lot then.

    Then i was sick under major depression and didnt have even the energy to fight with her. she treated me even worse. She treated me like dirt. said she did a favour marrying me, insulted me , critisized me for being sick, left me sick and travelled for Umrah and other places with my father and step mom.

    Ignored me and just make me feel worse.

    She didnt give reply to my salaam for around 8 years.

    when i got well after a few years, i didnt treat her well. treated her very badly and even she with verbal abuse.

    We hardly had any sexual life. We did have 2 kids. The reason for the first one was getting close for procreation.

    Sexual life was like very bad but i tried to be just with her to stay away from haram.
    with her psychological problems, i took her to psychiatrists. she didnt respond and after around a year the meds couldnt be continued coz she got pregnant.
    after her pregnancy i took her again and then she didnt respond at all and then she didnt want to continue the meds.

    if she was mentally sick and submitted herself to me and didnt get into family politics and drama, i would have felt compassion and love for her and in her treatment and would have been patient. but on the other hand she was making me feel unimportant and involving herself more with my step mom and my extended family for her social praises which she craved for more than anything else in her life, much more than husband's importance.

    i myself was getting depressed in being with her and didnt ask her to continue the treatment more.

    I realized after the abuse when my mom passed away and my sickness i had lost all feelings for her and didnt even find her attractive. She looked decent but her heart is what i hated.

    she was always involved with my extended family and we had no connection for years.

    I spent on her always according to what i could afford.

    I used to take her out for drives and restaurants and deserts and all according to my means.

    Her reason for disrespect was me not earning a lot and not being financially and socially dominating in the house. So the husband respect went elsewhere and I got according to my level of these things.

    i could no longer feel any attraction for her even if i tried hard. She had zero desire for sex, she didnt let me kiss her lips for years. she was content with her life since she enjoyed the social praises of good daughter in law in the family.

    I felt this is no marriage and love life. I was going towards haram.

    i did have my share of vices like tobacco, very angry when being treated with disrespect etc.

    she was emotionally unstable, abused me verbally threatened me financially n physically. i was bad to her too but i didnt do personality attacks and threatening.

    She was manipulative and asked divorce a lot of times when we had fights.

    Then family intervention came and they asked both what were the problems:
    1. I told them mine like very bad akhlaaq, not treating me like a husband, denying sex, not giving answer to my salaam, not interested in husband and only interested in extended family and her social image.

    2. She told that what problems she had with me like earning less which they dismissed for not giving husband respect. Tobacco use she said which they said u should work on if u can leave it.

    One year we waited to see if something could come positive out of it, I felt not feelings for her and no physical attraction- a complete shut down for her. She attempted in other ways like cooking n household stuff but could not stop getting extra close to my extended family relatives which didnt like.

    There was nothing in the marriage just 2 of us. She, coz she didnt want the divorcee stigma and she enjoyed the social status.
    I was there in the marriage coz of the kids

    Then there abuse again and i hold her hands tight for personal abuse and she slapped me in front of the kids, i slapped her back even more.

    Elders said u'll or not compatible at all. Its best u'll get divorced. I said ok and she said ok.

    Next day again she was asked and she said yes I want divorce and I said i want divorce.

    Then she turned around and said dont divorce me else u give me this n this financially.

    I also went in major depression in this marriage and the contributing factors were no emotional support and no love life and critisism and a unhappy marriage.

    She also had some depression period and a lot of OCD issues she some since childhood which i tried hard to treat at the end she felt this cant be treated through medicine and i didnt push her more for it.

    I said ok we'll give u whats possible.

    Then again she was upset with divorce.

    Then i told her why i cannot stay with her. I feel unhappy in a marriage where i am not being treated more important than relatives. She said our mental make ups are different and we will never be able to adjust. its best we get divorced.

    She was extra close emotionally to father in law that i didnt approve at all.

    With my step mom she was extra close for her benefits even in front of me even when me and my step mom had problems.

    She listen to a lot of things i told her to do or not to do but when it came up for standing up for me against anyone, she said she couldnt.

    We both were very bad to each other.

    Then at the time of divorce she said do not divorce me I'll be exactly like you want and i want to stay in marriage. I asked why and she said for the sake of kids. I said i dont want to live in an unhappy marriage where the wife does not wants to stay in the marriage for the love of the husband coz then again my emotional and physical needs will not be met and again problems. She said sarcastically ok keep me coz I love you a lot. I told her i no longer trust her coz she had been given a year and told what she was doing wrong and she didnt stop the extra close extended family drama. And even me, I didnt feel any feelings for u.

    I had lost complete feelings for her and didnt trust what she said coz she has said a lot of times a lot of things but didnt do saying later thats her nature.

    2 kids we have, her housing and monthly maintainance needs for her and kids are being taken care of my family money, meaning a part of which, which was supposed to come to me later goes to her, for her and kids.

    I visit them once a week, pay attention to their islamic beliefs and sunnah which they r doing good with. Enquire about studies, help them with anything they need. Education, emotional, play etc. They love me and I love them.

    What they do not get is getting brought up in the same house with mother and father together and father not present physically 6 days in a week. I call them each day.

    When we were together, they saw abuse and hatred and were upset.

    I had the option of keeping her in Nikah but in very close proximity which i didnt feel would have been good and not divorcing her would mean that she will not look for another husband with strong intent. Coz a lot of times she told me you should have divorced me earlier. She is still under 30. She also said her nature is not the one who could live alone with kids and her family had also said earlier that if they r not getting along well, better she comes back to us for the betterment for both.

    Also basic nature compatibility was there since the beginning like we couldnt talk much on anything for more than 5-10 minutes. No common interests, couldnt laugh at each other's jokes, sexual desire and intimacy complete incompatibility, but i didnt think of divorcing for these earlier.

    We didnt enjoy any time together. i liked to spend time with friends since the beginning and she liked to spent more time talking to her mom and sis on phone.

    Also in our society, divorce even without kids is treated like murder, so it took a very long time with the kids.

    Also, she always demanded money and house whenever we had fights and the topic of divorce came up. At the moment it was possible to give her those and later that would not have been very difficult.

    At the time of divorce we didnt have or miss any of our past good/romantic memories coz nothing like that existed.

    The only feeling i felt for her was some pity coz she might not get married again coz marrying a divorcee with kids is very difficult here. I told her I love my kids and ready to keep them happily and she said she wanted to keep. I said ok.

    Finally i felt there was no future for us together. I also do a lot of self introspection and giving a lot of benefit of doubt so i hurt myself saying maybe what u did was a big sin coz they kids got seperated from parents and if u had tried more and could bend might be feelings would have come back and even though she was changing colours for society reasons let it be she wanted to try more.


    Deep down when i read things online on divorce i feel i didnt try and make it work and hence committed sin and feel very guilty and society aggrevates it and I'm able to focus on work or deen.

    I want you to please look it from outside and tell me, is this a sin?

    possible outcome with trying more didnt look positive at all.
    my relatives tell me it would have been positive if u had bent and changed or compromised. I told her basic needs like love and affection and emotional support i seek in the relationship and we r not compatible at all there and if im not getting that, I cannot compromise there and will fall in haram.

    They said then just seperate, i told them first i have safety issues with her to keep her in nikah, she threatens legal and all kinda social stuff and society considers me a criminal so even though im weak in the situation you all support her just coz she is a woman with 2 kids, secondly she blames me for not divorcing earlier which she might do even more in the future, third being involved with her in nikah affects me psychologically and fourthly if i marry another wife she will also have problems with the first nikah which serves no purpose except her social image even if she agrees for seperation with nothing between us.

    I do not have any girl on my mind to marry in the near future.

    Now they r pressurising me to take her back within iddah coz i have done a sin.


    So, if i divorced her in this scenario was this a sin? If yes why? If not why?

    Please help.
    Last edited by salman321; 09-03-15, 05:48 PM.

  • #2
    Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

    :wswrwb:

    Bro, your post is a bit long. Maybe, you can shorted it and then more people are likely to read it and reply :insha:
    Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

    "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
    - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

      No, it is not a sin.

      You can divorce on the basis of lack of respect. Zaid Bin Harith (the freed slave of the Prophet pbuh) divorced Zainab (r) for this reason. The verses are in Surah Al Ahzab.

      Scholars have also said that if the rights of a spouse are not being fulfilled (such as intimacy or financial support) that is a basis for divorce. So you won't be sinning.

      If you prefer, you can do istikhara prayer and give the marriage another chance.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

        ...
        Last edited by starrynight11; 10-03-15, 12:26 AM.
        Life's actually pretty simple: you just have to enjoy it, pray, do good, refrain from bad, and respect others. Being Muslim is not a disadvantage or an advantage - it's a responsibility.
        "So patiently persevere: for verily the promise of Allah is true" (Qur'an, Surah Ar-Rum - 30:60)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

          Sounds like you've been through a lot in your marriage.


          I think it's best you seek advise from a trusted Imaam or scholar, no-one here can legislate divorce or advise it
          without first being able to discuss your issue on a face-face level.

          All I can advise is: don't rush into anything.
          Consider all the factors involved I.e kids, arrangements etc. And most of all whether or not you're willing to lead a seperate life from your kids.
          You may not see this as an issue but it really hinders and impacts on a child's development by being in a broken one-parent household.
          Try and see if it's worth patching things up with you're wife first, and do not make a rash-emotionally driven decisions just yet.



          As a side note,I reckon this should be lesson for the rest of us. Brothers: make sure that this woman you're marrying is a woman you would want to be the mother of your children. Study her actions, her deen and her character - because looks are a very de-appreciating asset. As time goes by, looks fade, you will naturally de-appreciate her looks because that's with everything in life. The more you observe it, and the more you have it, the less physically appealing it will look to you, but if you seek a woman with decent character - and I'm not painting his wife as having bad kuhuluq - I'm just saying, don't be taken aback by a woman's looks. There are many beautiful women out there, but how many would make a decent wife?
          I didn't want to make this a generic-speech like comment, but I think what should be gained for this is that yes, every woman has her own faults but be sure to investigate a woman's character - because that's what you LIVE with at the end of the day.

          A decent woman would make sure she doesn't disrespect her husband - you may fight an that but there's a fine line between outright disrespect and being a little 'feisty' in an arguement. Choose wisely bros.


          Also, I think it's important to gather the importance of being emotionally available for your spouse. The brother repeatedly mentioned the lack of emotional fulfilment he had in the marriage. This is something I seem to lack myself, I tend to be clustered up in my own thoughts and problems that sometimes I think if i were to marry, what would I be able to offer my husband?

          You have to be able to mentally handle and deal with new problems, and problems from your spouse. You are a garment for them and they are a garment for you.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

            The notion of divorce being a grave sin is simply wrong

            The sahabah ra married and divorced for different reasons and more regularly than we think

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

              Originally posted by .mirror. View Post
              :wswrwb:

              Bro, your post is a bit long. Maybe, you can shorted it and then more people are likely to read it and reply :insha:
              I thought about it, but wanted to portray the complete picture and wanted to know what people felt about this.

              Originally posted by umm salabil View Post
              No, it is not a sin.

              You can divorce on the basis of lack of respect. Zaid Bin Harith (the freed slave of the Prophet pbuh) divorced Zainab (r) for this reason. The verses are in Surah Al Ahzab.

              Scholars have also said that if the rights of a spouse are not being fulfilled (such as intimacy or financial support) that is a basis for divorce. So you won't be sinning.

              If you prefer, you can do istikhara prayer and give the marriage another chance.
              I did istikhara, i dont feel anything positive would come out of this marriage. I also do a lot of self introspection and in some cases giving undue importance and benefit of doubt to the other person and end up hurting myself coz I be nice to them n forgive them n they dont appreciate it and hurt me back more later.

              The problem is that her focus is on the extended family and she was willing to give like 50-50. When I'm sick, she wasnt sure if serving me as a priority and being able to tell the relatives politely, please understand right now I cannot do all the pampering of yours. My husband is not well and I want to be with him. She just cannot tell anyone this and show husband's importance. 50-50 she used to say. I felt i didnt get the respect and importance and closeness of a wife. This thing cannot change she told me, she said her mental makeup and upbringing is like that.

              BUT

              she changes colours, when she feels like being honest she says the above but when the fear of social divorce stigma comes all she turns around and says ok take me back. I will do everything as you tell me to do like a slave.

              The problem here is i do not want her to be a slave, any feelings i want is of a genuine love and respect of a wife.

              Another problem, if she was honest and stuck to one thing, i wouldnt be in mental mess at one time thinking ok she is honest and telling me im like that, keep me or divorce me.

              The other time she says no I'll do everything to avoid divorce. The problem is she says BUT she cannot deliver. Whenever the situation repeats, she goes back to her nature making me feel, unimportant, disrespected and unloved.

              Originally posted by UmmAbdulMalik View Post
              Sounds like you've been through a lot in your marriage.


              I think it's best you seek advise from a trusted Imaam or scholar, no-one here can legislate divorce or advise it
              without first being able to discuss your issue on a face-face level.

              All I can advise is: don't rush into anything.
              Consider all the factors involved I.e kids, arrangements etc. And most of all whether or not you're willing to lead a seperate life from your kids.
              You may not see this as an issue but it really hinders and impacts on a child's development by being in a broken one-parent household.
              Try and see if it's worth patching things up with you're wife first, and do not make a rash-emotionally driven decisions just yet.



              As a side note,I reckon this should be lesson for the rest of us. Brothers: make sure that this woman you're marrying is a woman you would want to be the mother of your children. Study her actions, her deen and her character - because looks are a very de-appreciating asset. As time goes by, looks fade, you will naturally de-appreciate her looks because that's with everything in life. The more you observe it, and the more you have it, the less physically appealing it will look to you, but if you seek a woman with decent character - and I'm not painting his wife as having bad kuhuluq - I'm just saying, don't be taken aback by a woman's looks. There are many beautiful women out there, but how many would make a decent wife?
              I didn't want to make this a generic-speech like comment, but I think what should be gained for this is that yes, every woman has her own faults but be sure to investigate a woman's character - because that's what you LIVE with at the end of the day.

              A decent woman would make sure she doesn't disrespect her husband - you may fight an that but there's a fine line between outright disrespect and being a little 'feisty' in an arguement. Choose wisely bros.


              Also, I think it's important to gather the importance of being emotionally available for your spouse. The brother repeatedly mentioned the lack of emotional fulfilment he had in the marriage. This is something I seem to lack myself, I tend to be clustered up in my own thoughts and problems that sometimes I think if i were to marry, what would I be able to offer my husband?

              You have to be able to mentally handle and deal with new problems, and problems from your spouse. You are a garment for them and they are a garment for you.
              I spoke to knowledgeble imam and he said with counselling she might make some adjustments but dont expect the basic nature to change and you getting the intimate close bonding that you seek.

              He also said one big factor is that both of you are also very incompatible with respect to basic nature. That is a major problem here.

              He said the issue here is the love and tarbiyah the kids get of a father. Think just about that and if you can live a life of compromises to give them that.

              The problem is that when my basic emotional and physical needs are not met, I'm frustrated and miserable and in this state i cannot do any good to the kids. Infact they face the worst seeing us fighting all the time.

              Physical attraction has been lost completely and it would make things worse. I dont feel any hope for it coming back. There wasnt a lot but just a bit to be able to keep away from haram in the first couple of years. which didnt seem to come back in the last few years.

              Originally posted by nonameakhi View Post
              The notion of divorce being a grave sin is simply wrong

              The sahabah ra married and divorced for different reasons and more regularly than we think
              The prob is when i read online for valid reasons for divorce, it says everything possible should be tried first. But after this mess and lost feelings i just dont feel like pushing myself to try anything and dont see any positive outcome even if i did.

              Plus later if divorce happens, which i feel it will:
              1. more time is lost even after this 10 plus horrible years.
              2. mentally its getting a too much torture, Im not able to eat for days with this going on.
              3. settlement issues more for her if not dont right now.
              4. More mental issues for me from society and her for making the marriage go even longer and then divorcing.

              we also had major sexual incompatibility and she has very less desires. I did help her with psychologists for her depression and ocd treatments but sexual incompatibility i didnt. When i feel disrespected in a relationship, I was not able to do much for her and didnt have the inclination for it.

              one more question of mine is,

              i had a lot of geerah and didnt want her to talk to non mehram whether relatives or outside people after we were married. Maybe some times i used to go more extreme like go with her and drop her for small distances even in the same building in the extreme beginning and not let her go alone during the beginning. i was 23 n she was 18. get food in the car or home instead of her opening her face in restaurants(she used to wear niqaab since before marriage but didnt mind opening up in public but before marriage she agreed to wear complete purdah with on eyes and gloves n socks which i had made very clear it wasnt acceptable to me without that)

              On the other hand till my mom was alive she was ok with everything. As soon as she felt strong socially, she removed the eye cover, gloves n socks. Started talking to non mehram(nothing wicked). Coming in front of the non mehrem, etc.

              I told her i wasnt ok with this.

              If she disrespected me for having high geerah is that right?

              But all through these years and even in the end the reason she always told me for disrespect was less money and not geerah. At the end when she said she would do everything she also said she wouldnt mine taking the complete niqaab(with eyes covered and gloves n socks)

              after the first couple of years i didnt ask her to do this again. Still we had problems. Only thing time and again i told her i didnt like her talking/mixing or coming in front of the non mehram relatives, friends, cousins and visitors.

              In her parents house before marriage, she used to wear niqaab outside but didnt feel it wrong to talk to family non mehram or come in front of them. this wasnt acceptable to me.

              is complete disrespect for high geerah right/justified?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                Are you trying to convince us or yourself...imam told you that you had grounds for divorce..stop the guilt and move on..be dutiful to your children..
                Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                  Originally posted by UmmAbdulMalik View Post
                  Sounds like you've been through a lot in your marriage.


                  I think it's best you seek advise from a trusted Imaam or scholar, no-one here can legislate divorce or advise it
                  without first being able to discuss your issue on a face-face level.

                  All I can advise is: don't rush into anything.
                  Consider all the factors involved I.e kids, arrangements etc. And most of all whether or not you're willing to lead a seperate life from your kids.
                  You may not see this as an issue but it really hinders and impacts on a child's development by being in a broken one-parent household.
                  Try and see if it's worth patching things up with you're wife first, and do not make a rash-emotionally driven decisions just yet.



                  As a side note,I reckon this should be lesson for the rest of us. Brothers: make sure that this woman you're marrying is a woman you would want to be the mother of your children. Study her actions, her deen and her character - because looks are a very de-appreciating asset. As time goes by, looks fade, you will naturally de-appreciate her looks because that's with everything in life. The more you observe it, and the more you have it, the less physically appealing it will look to you, but if you seek a woman with decent character - and I'm not painting his wife as having bad kuhuluq - I'm just saying, don't be taken aback by a woman's looks. There are many beautiful women out there, but how many would make a decent wife?
                  I didn't want to make this a generic-speech like comment, but I think what should be gained for this is that yes, every woman has her own faults but be sure to investigate a woman's character - because that's what you LIVE with at the end of the day.

                  A decent woman would make sure she doesn't disrespect her husband - you may fight an that but there's a fine line between outright disrespect and being a little 'feisty' in an arguement. Choose wisely bros.


                  Also, I think it's important to gather the importance of being emotionally available for your spouse. The brother repeatedly mentioned the lack of emotional fulfilment he had in the marriage. This is something I seem to lack myself, I tend to be clustered up in my own thoughts and problems that sometimes I think if i were to marry, what would I be able to offer my husband?

                  You have to be able to mentally handle and deal with new problems, and problems from your spouse. You are a garment for them and they are a garment for you.
                  Since beginning if she had been just kinda neutral it might not have hurt so much. But when she couldnt emotionally support her husband when he is down, atleast she shouldnt have critisized and made him feel worse.

                  If she couldnt appreciate the success of my life at least she shouldnt have behaved in manner giving me a feeling so what if u did this, this seems nothing great.

                  regarding geerah, I wanted her to do hijaab from my brother, brother in law, cousins, etc. and she felt this was extreme this was also a compatibility issue where i couldnt tolerate it time and again and she couldnt do after a number of years n we had problems.

                  arrangements, accomodation and maintainance for her and kids is not a problem at all.

                  Only issue is i spend only one day a week with them. I'm willing to keep them as im supposed to if she wants to remarry or even if she does not want to remarry but again they will have less time with the mother and she wants to keep them with her. I'm ok with that giving them one day in peace instead of low quality 7 days with all the abuse they see between us. Not even in a mental position to take them out much in this situation.

                  Maybe this is better for them then seeing fights n abuse day in and day out.

                  I never took emotional decisions but the fact is i cannot put up with the fact that i live with a wife who doesnt treat me like a husband with much more greater importance and respect and close intimate bonding.

                  is treating a husband like dirt for high geerah justified/right?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                    Originally posted by salman321 View Post

                    regarding geerah, I wanted her to do hijaab from my brother, brother in law, cousins, etc. and she felt this was extreme
                    ?
                    >> That is not extreme...that is Islam...
                    Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                      Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                      Are you trying to convince us or yourself...imam told you that you had grounds for divorce..stop the guilt and move on..be dutiful to your children..
                      the problem is the society is putting pressure on me to take her back and that makes me go flash back and analyze things.

                      the imam understood the problem but he recommended to try more for kids. I did follow the Amaal's he gave but still didnt feel like continuing.

                      the only problem i face is i dont want to be sinful. thats the reason i ask is it a Sin?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                        Originally posted by salman321 View Post
                        the problem is the society is putting pressure on me to take her back and that makes me go flash back and analyze things.

                        the imam understood the problem but he recommended to try more for kids. I did follow the Amaal's he gave but still didnt feel like continuing.

                        the only problem i face is i dont want to be sinful. thats the reason i ask is it a Sin?
                        It is not a sin with everything you have listed and also the imam gave the approval...I do not like seeing families torn apart but you both have made your children suffer enough with the emotional and physical abuse they have witnessed from the both of you....maybe inthe future you can remarry but these women never change...you think the next man she will marry will be as tolerant as you...doubt it..
                        Women lost their modesty when men lost their gheerah..” .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                          Originally posted by shay5 View Post
                          Are you trying to convince us or yourself...imam told you that you had grounds for divorce..stop the guilt and move on..be dutiful to your children..
                          There are 2 problems:
                          1. The imam said what she did wasnt right n basic compatibility mismatch and try more for kids maybe love will come back but dont expect close intimate bonding. I tried a bit maybe halfheartedly but i didnt feel things would work.(already she had slapped me tight in front of the kids and me her more back, not saying coz of ego here just letting u know the situation where things were).

                          I didnt try more.

                          Now here, not trying more coz I cant coz of my hurt and the miserable future i see, when the imam said try and then
                          me not trying more and divorcing a sin?

                          He seemed concerned for the kids.
                          The guilt i have here is i didnt listen to the imam and try more coz my hurt was a lot, feelings were finished and didnt have hope for them coming back properly and i saw a very bad future together for myself.

                          The imam said even though she denied sex in the past at the moment she lets you. So maybe that cannot count as sexual denial now.
                          i told her when she denied the sexual intimacy in the past it has led to me feeling repulsive towards her now.
                          And now if she just lets me do it, i do not feeling anything intimate with her and she has no desire or interest in it and just doing it for the sake of it to avoid divorce n it makes me feel worse. I do not enjoy any pleasure or fullfillment from it when she "just lets me do it". isnt that being deprived of the basic need of sexual fullfillment of satisfaction.


                          2. The reconciiation process that existed in my case one year back was my family and her's sitting and asking us our problems and asking both of us to try and sort out. After a year they saw it didnt see any improvement.

                          Guilt here is the procedure was not maybe perfect like to appointed people from both sides and they couple telling them and following what they say.

                          So without the above reconciliation process, is divorce a sin?

                          what about high or once in a while extreme geerah and in response treating husband like a dirt. Is that justified/right?
                          Last edited by salman321; 10-03-15, 08:50 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                            She was able to have 2 kids with you... I think you have had some time to separate but get back together and give her one more chance. She may change, no one wants to end up being a divorcee, maybe she had a big ego, maybe she was immature, you have mentioned she is under 30. Some people develop emotionally alot slower... I say talk and give her one more chance, you have two kids. Inshallah, i pray your situation improves and god guides you.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Is divorce a Sin in this scerario?

                              Originally posted by PatientGirl View Post
                              She was able to have 2 kids with you... I think you have had some time to separate but get back together and give her one more chance. She may change, no one wants to end up being a divorcee, maybe she had a big ego, maybe she was immature, you have mentioned she is under 30. Some people develop emotionally alot slower... I say talk and give her one more chance, you have two kids. Inshallah, i pray your situation improves and god guides you.
                              She had 2 kids with me but we marriage is not fulfilling with basic needs at a bare minimum, 2 kids or any number of kids or any number of external factors cannot make it work.

                              You might feel you have seen people make it work for the sake of kids but sister listen here.

                              I will tell you why they have been able to work it out even when there is zero love.

                              Human's have five basic needs in marriage:
                              1. Survival: Nikah Contract
                              2. Safety: Feel safe in the marriage.
                              3. Love: Care, Affection, Sex, Intimacy.
                              4. Self Esteem: Respect
                              5. Self Actualization: Here comes the ideal fulfilling married life and/or desires like she is a perfectly attractive physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

                              The workability factors for a marriage are only the middle 3. safety, love and self esteem/respect.

                              So people who are able to work it out for the kids and have no love life have either strong respect from wife and/or dont feel emotionally abused and very safe.

                              People who compromise for respect for the sake of kids, either have a great love life and/or zero emotional abuse/safety concerns.

                              and people who compromise for safety issues(very difficult to think of), would still require excellent and extra ordinary love/sex life for which they r able to compromise everything.(respect is highly doubted here.

                              people who are not getting all 3 or major issues in all 3 and still compromise for kids will:

                              1. Either live a life in major depression.
                              2. Live their life in haram outside.
                              3. Run away and keep the nikah
                              4. Die each day
                              5. Divorce sometime in the future.

                              for giving her one more chance, I should have felt the probability or these 3 factors greater than 50% which i dont. <-- this is regarding she may change.

                              yes nobody wants to be a divorcee and thats not something pleasant for me but she should be happy to be a divorcee when if she is not being a divorcee she lands her husband in one of the above 5 catagories.

                              she does not have a big ego. the problem is her mental make up which she wasnt able to change.
                              Equally important here is my feelings coming back for her with regards to love coz after long hurt even if u change, it is not right to expect the husband's feelings to come back and blame him if his feelings do not come back. Its not a button that u change and press and they come back after years of hurt. I know sometimes it takes times but please understand sometimes it does not come with time and the husband should not be blamed for it not coming back after her changing even after time.
                              Human's are emotional beings and there is something called as point of no return for feelings. Each human is different, for some it might come instantly, for some it may come with time and for some it may never come.
                              Thats nature, genetics, social brought up and a lot of other factors hence any of the 3 types cannot be blamed.

                              maybe immature she was but she gave the right the respect of dealing with her immaturity not to her husband but her father in law coz husband she didnt respect coz he earned less and not socially strong. She did a very concious decision there even if she was immature.

                              If a girl is immature, she knows she is in Nikah with her husband and whatever the factors are the immaturity should be given to the husband to take care of if she feels she is immature.

                              ok lets imagine here, her parents asked her do it. but then when a girl is young enough and married and is listening to her parents and not her husband to give the handling power of hers to anyone else other than her husband based on finance and social strength, its not justified. it speaks about her being diplomatic and manipulative and wrong.

                              she may develop emotionally later BUT at 29 when she didnt develop she may also never develop it. If the probability I see is less than 50% its not right to do that for my nafs. its like comitting suicide. nafs is not always bad(as commonly used) and your nafs also has a right upon you.

                              Completely finishing of nafs is not the middle path of islam. its like eating each day food without salt. Its like celibacy, its like choosing mental torture for urself each day.

                              Talking to her more does not make sense since she is not able to talk on anything. All she says is I'll do everything and when i give her chance she does not do it.

                              Ameen, but sister please remember a situation improving does not always mean the same marriage working anyhow, an improving situation could also mean both the people living a life with someone they can live happily with and the kids getting both the parents love and upbringing even though they are seperated.

                              Both of us at around 30 right now. there is a chance for both of us to look ahead in life instead of dying in depression fighting all our lives and doing nothing productive in dunya and spoiling our Akhirah more with more n more n more n more of verbal and abuse to each other day in and day out.

                              Keeping a nikah in survival mode n slapping each other is no life. Also just keeping the nikah n living seperate would mean not pushing her to look for someone she can be with at the age of 29 and telling her your life is finished now and social image is all u get for the rest of ur life while me facing blame for it too sometimes from her and sometimes from society/family.

                              the question still remains. Is divorce a sin here? if yes why? if no why?
                              Last edited by salman321; 11-03-15, 11:14 AM.

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