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asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

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  • #16
    Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

    Originally posted by Repentant View Post
    Wallahu Alam

    There are numerous students of knowledge of the Hanbali madhab on this forum http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f...nt-race-52696/.

    And it is said that the official position of the Hanbali madhab is that a potential can be rejected on the grounds of being from a different race. In fact the asker even mentioned that early Hanbali scholars demanded that a couple must be of the same race for the nikah to be valid, although you should ask just in case I am mistaken.
    Fear Allah.

    Firstly, 'race' isn't even a scientific concept. Because we are the human race. The Prophet :saw: was married to Safiya who was of the Jewish ethnicity.
    He also had children with Mariya a Coptic lady.

    How do you think Islam spread? Many of the early Muslims married local women who were of a different ethnicity. No body is pure Indian, pure Somali, pure Arab. Many of our ancestors have intermarried with different ethnicities and your claim that such marries might not be valid is atrocious.

    Zaid ibn Harith married Umm Aiman who was Ethiopian (Black).

    Bilal who was black was said to have married an Arab Sahaba.

    There are so many examples if we look at the early Muslims.

    You have come up with nonsense yet you don't even provide evidence. Another Islamic forum Isn't proof as evidently enough people can just write anything you being a prime example.


    Fifthly: it is not permissible for the walee to refuse marriage because the prospective husband does not follow his manhaj of da’wah, or because he is not of his tribe or from his country. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) commanded us to marry religious people and not to refuse them, otherwise corruption and tribulation would be the result.

    Abu Hurayrah said: the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “If someone whose religious commitment and attitude pleases you proposes marriage, then marry [your female relative under your charge] to him. If you do not do that, there will be tribulation in the land and much corruption.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 1084; Ibn Maajah, 1967. Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani, may Allaah have mercy on him, in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah. 1022).


    http://islamqa.info/en/7193

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    • #17
      Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

      Salaam, within our community the suitor will visit with the elders of the family. E.g his father, grandfather, uncles or older brothers. At the girls house they will sit with her Wali (possibly her father or brother) and discuss the prospect of marriage.
      I won't lie to you, since you are not an afghan, the odds are against you. But if you can prove yourself to them, things will work out. They'll want to know things about your education, how practicing you are in terms of religion, your family (I.e what do your parents work as? Are they practicing?), what you can offer their daughter, do you have the means to take care of her? (E.g do you have enough in your bank account to take care of her financially, is there a place you both can live after marriage).
      They probably won't be too pleased about the circumstances under which you met but be honest. They may also be quite skeptical. They don't know you and may prefer their daughter to marry a man from their community who's family they know.

      There's also some things you need to find out about them. Firstly, would this girl even be willing to marry you? There's no point in going to all this trouble if she won't accept. What are the family like? Perhaps you know someone that lives in their neighbourhood. Get them to ask around! When you marry into an afghan family, you'll be spending the majority of your time with them (9 times out of 10). So you need to enquire on whether this family is the kind of family you can cope with for the rest of your life.

      Inshallah everything works out in your best interests.

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      • #18
        Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

        Some of these replies remind me of some of the comments of some racist Sothern Bible bashers in America.

        They too are of the view that it is wrong for two people of different 'races' like black and white to marry.

        Now these views have slowly become adopted by some Muslims, some have even gone as far as to suggest parents have the right to separate daughters from their husbands because he is of a different race. :sub:.

        Compatibility is based upon Deen NOT ethnicity.

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        • #19
          Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

          Originally posted by syed21 View Post
          Suppose she would be willing to marry me. I was just typing fast so i didn't type the whole story. My question was more towards how do i go about asking her parents to marry me if she does arrange it. I am a muslim but until now i have just been dating girls the american way so this is new to me. I'm confused about the process and why afghans are not willing to accept other cultures in marriage because i hear this time and time again, how can i get past that?
          if her father is properly practising islam he wont be hung up on nationalism and madhabs etc. what will matter is the deen and character of the man who wants to marry his daughter.

          if you have been dating women then you need to seriously learn your religion and practice it. no mixing and dating with non mahram women ( dont be hanging out with this girl either) repent to Allah for anything in the past you shouldnt have done as a muslim , and repair your relationship with Allah ta ala. This alone will be the best way forward not only with this matter, but your life in general. It is Allah you need to worry about, not this girls father, if you correct yourself before Allah then he will find a way forward for you in the matter of marriage. start with your prayers and take it from there :)
          "O you who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest you swerve, and if you distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do." [An-Nisa 4:135]

          The Prophet :saw: said:

          "Whosoever leaves off obedience and separates from the Jamaa'ah and dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah. Whoever fights under the banner of the blind, becoming angry for 'asabiyyah (nationalism/tribalism/partisanship) or calling to 'asabiyyah, or assisting 'asabiyyah, then dies, he dies a death of jaahiliyyah."

          muslim

          Narrated 'Abdullah:

          The Prophet, said, "Abusing a Muslim is Fusuq (evil doing) and killing him is Kufr (disbelief)." sahih bukhari


          "Creeping upon you is the diseases of those people before you: envy and hatred. And hatred is the thing that shaves. I do not say it shaves the hair but it shaves the religion!

          By the One in whose Hand is my soul, you will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another. Certainly, let me inform you of that which may establish such things: spread the greetings and peace among yourselves."

          [Recorded by Imam Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi]

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

            Originally posted by Repentant View Post
            I may be wrong but parents even have the right to separate their daughter from a spouse they didn't want her to marry due to differences in race.
            47040: Man divorcing his wife on his parents' orders

            Question:

            What is the shar'i ruling on a man divorcing his wife when his parents tell him to, on the grounds that this wife used to work for them as a servant in the past? Is this regarded as disobeying one's parents? Please note that this wife currently lives an honourable life.


            Answer:

            Praise be to Allaah.

            Undoubtedly the parents are those who are most deserving of respect, obedience and kind treatment. Allaah mentions the command to treat parents well alongside the command to worship Him as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

            "And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents"

            [al-Isra' 17:23]

            Obedience to parents is obligatory on the child with regard to that which will benefit them and will not harm the child. With regard to that which does not bring them any benefits or which will cause harm to the child, he does not have to obey them in that case.

            Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in al-Ikhtiyaaraat (p. 114): A person is obliged to obey his parents with regard to that which is not sinful, even if they are immoral evildoers… This has to do with that which is beneficial for them and not harmful to him. End quote.

            Divorce with no acceptable reason is something that is hated by Allaah, because it destroys the blessings of marriage and exposes the family to destruction and the children to loss. It may also involve injustice towards the woman. The fact that the wife had been a servant in the past is not a legitimate reason for divorce, especially if she is religiously-committed and has a good attitude.

            Based on this, he does not have to obey his parents and divorce his wife, and that is not regarded as being disobedient towards them. But the son should express his refusal to divorce her in a kind and gentle manner,
            because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

            "say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour

            [al-Isra' 17:23]

            Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih ibn `Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about the ruling on a man divorcing his wife if his father tells him to do that. He said:

            If the father tells his son to divorce his wife, one of the following two scenarios must apply:

            1 _ Where the father gives a legitimate reason why he should divorce her and separate from her, such as saying, Divorce your wife because her behaviour is suspicious, such as she flirts with men or goes out to gatherings that are not decent and so on. In this case the son should agree and divorce her, because he is not telling her to divorce her on the basis of a whim, rather that is to protect his son's honour from being besmirched, so he should divorce her.

            2 _ Where the father tells his son to divorce his wife because the son loves her, but the father feels jealous of his son's love for her and the mother is more jealous, because many mothers, when they see that their son loves his wife, feel very jealous, as if the son's wife is a co-wife and rival. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. In this case the son does not have to divorce his wife if his father or mother tells her to divorce her. Rather he should be tactful with them and keep his wife, and he should try to convince them with kind words until they are persuaded that she should stay with him, especially if the wife is religiously committed and has a good attitude.

            Imam Ahmad (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about this very issue. A man came and said: "My father is telling me to divorce my wife." Imam Ahmad said to him: "Do not divorce her." He said: "Didn't the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) tell Ibn `Umar to divorce his wife when `Umar told him to do that?" He said: "Is your father like `Umar?"

            If the father quotes evidence to his son and says, "O my son, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told `Abd-Allaah ibn `Umar to divorce his wife when his father `Umar told him to do that," the response to that is: "Are you like `Umar?" But you should speak kindly and gently, and say that `Umar saw something which indicated that it was in his son's interests to divorce his wife. This is the answer to this question which comes up frequently.

            Al-Fataawa al-Jaami'ah li'l-Mar'ah al-Muslimah, 2/671.

            The Standing Committee for Issuing Fatwas was asked about a mother telling her son to divorce his wife for no reason or fault in her religious commitment, rather it was because of the mother's personal reasons. They replied as follows:

            If the situation is as described, that his wife is righteous and he loves her, and she is dear to him, and she does not behave badly towards his mother, and his mother only dislikes her for personal reasons, then he should keep his wife and stay married to her. He does not have to divorce her in obedience to his mother, because it was proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Obedience is only with regard to that which is right and proper." Based on this, he should honour his mother and uphold ties of kinship with her by visiting her and spending on her, and paying attention to her needs and making her happy and pleasing her in whatever ways he can, apart from divorcing his wife.

            Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa'imah, 2/29.

            Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com)

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

              Brother, why would you want to marry into a family that rejects you because of your race? I wouldn't. As soon as she said that to me, I would have forgotten her (for the sake of my future self and children, who might suffer racism).

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                If the family has blend its self into western culture then they wont mind if you ask her father in person. But if they are still.... Afghans then its not a good idea and taking shaikh wont help you either as they will be more interested in your family background so take your parents.
                But dont go too far with thoughts of her in your mind because its not sure either whether they will accept you or not.

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                • #23
                  Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                  If they are kind of westernised afghans...then possibility of marriage is there.if not...i dont think so they ll agree.However..its not impossible.Persistence is the key....as someone said.I knew cases where punjabi muslims or sindhi muslims used to go to girl s parents for months to years till they were accepted as son in law.You also will be needed to learn pashto and pashtunwali...the ways we live our lives.Unfortunately ....some families or tribes are very strict in this regard.Atleast give it a try.I know its very racist of afghans/pashtjns... :/...but thats how we are.InshAllah things may change with time.
                  ".......He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them (kuffar) their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy.Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it;but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief."(5:64)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                    Originally posted by syed21 View Post
                    she needs to set an example for her younger siblings because she didn't go to college to meet guys.
                    :insha: your ikhwaan shall make dua for your success. You are up against what seems like a very traditional family. Though I say you should apologize to them for having interacted with their daughter as this could likely hurt them.

                    and i would honestly do anything for her.
                    I don't want to sound harsher than I already have been, but you've got to know that this sort of attitude is wrong. When you love someone/something in an extreme form you are then in danger of coming close to committing shirk.
                    "You must convince your heart that whatever Allah has decreed is most appropriate and most beneficial for you." ~ Imam Al Ghazali.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                      Thank you so much. That's what i was waiting to hear. Thank you for asking my question

                      Originally posted by wahdat View Post
                      So since no one decieded to answer the miskin here's my advice =P

                      Bro talk to your shaykh and get him to approach the family first, you can go with him but usually how it works is that the he would meet them and discuss it and they'd think about it. Yes chances are slim but hi what do you have to lose from asking, and remember this, persistence is key, persistence is key, persistence is key!

                      Besides that, after your shaykh approaches them get him to ask them to get you a time for your parents to meet there's in shaa Allah they speak english to or else the meetings kinda gonna suck lol...

                      try your best, learn pashto (pilmsleurs a good start, I think its eastern pashto spoken in the northern parts of paksitan ect) and finally make du'a, du'a is the weapon of the believer =)

                      May Allah swt make things easy for you =)

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                      • #26
                        Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                        Thank you everyone for the responses.
                        So if she were to arrange a meeting should I go by myself, take me sheikh or take my parents? I would really prefer going by myself the first time because I want to talk to her father personally but I could also ask my sheikh. I haven't even told my parents yet. I do not want to tell them until things get serious

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                        • #27
                          Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                          Originally posted by syed21 View Post
                          Thank you everyone for the responses.
                          So if she were to arrange a meeting should I go by myself, take me sheikh or take my parents? I would really prefer going by myself the first time because I want to talk to her father personally but I could also ask my sheikh. I haven't even told my parents yet. I do not want to tell them until things get serious
                          I strongly advice you not to go by yourself. Im not afghan, but i know a lot of afghan people. If you go by yourself, theres a great chance her father wont even take you seriously and send you home. Besides, if you show up on your own, you kinda admitting that you were in a relationship with her. And for afghans, nothing is more important than a girls honour, so he will get mad at his daughter (if he is not too westernized that is)

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                          • #28
                            Re: asking an afghan girls parents for her hand please help

                            Originally posted by syed21 View Post
                            Thank you everyone for the responses.
                            So if she were to arrange a meeting should I go by myself, take me sheikh or take my parents? I would really prefer going by myself the first time because I want to talk to her father personally but I could also ask my sheikh. I haven't even told my parents yet. I do not want to tell them until things get serious
                            As I said before, you should go with some elders from your family. For example, your father, uncle or even grandfather.
                            If you go on your own
                            1. They won't take you seriously
                            2. They may find it disrespectful (they'll see it as your family not finding the matter important)
                            3. It's tradition for it to happen this way. For you to comply, you'll be showing them that you're already embracing the afghan culture.

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