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Are marriages sexless?

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  • #16
    Re: Are marriages sexless?

    Originally posted by neelu View Post
    Walaykum salam,

    I agree with you- the OP appears to contain a number of sweeping generalisations, some of which may apply to certain individuals or situations, but not to everyone.
    I know a qualified doctor having no job due to the climate [the competition] in his city..

    And I don't really believe that piety will necessarily give the husband, more sex...it often depends on the couple's relationship. Piety only helps to a level and not beyond that.

    I agree with your comments regarding withholding the intimacy.

    I think every couple should really buy the book [fard] of Mufti Muhammad ibn Adam on this subject to get a Fiqhi sense of it and they can look into other aspects of it and the rest via different materials.
    Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

    ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
    فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

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    • #17
      Let's please have adab...

      What I expected occurred, but something else occurred that I didn't expect. Let's first go into what happens too often, personal attacks. I don't know why, but there are always personal attacks and insults on this forum. It's already occurred. Can we please be civil? Just because it's the internet doesn't mean we Muslims have to do this. We can express ourselves without resorting to personal attacks and insults.

      Originally posted by abubakarbristol View Post
      your questions are clumsy and ill thought out
      This type of language isn't necessary. It's a putdown. What reward do you think Allah will give for this type of language on the day of judgement? We can elaborate and dissect a problematic question or statement without resorting to this type of behavior. Please, let's all just be a bit more calm and reserved when responding.

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      Walaykum salam,

      I agree with you- the OP appears to contain a number of sweeping generalisations, some of which may apply to certain individuals or situations, but not to everyone.
      Now this is much more appropriate. Saying a statement contains sweeping generalizations is a constructive look at the post. It's perfectly fine to attack the argument, but one shouldn't attack the arguer. If a person is out of control on this form and merits no respect, then the best thing to do is have that person blocked. It's much better for the form. Jazaka Allah khair neelu for having such a considered and respectful response :).

      The part that surprised me was people not taking serious one of the wife's main responsibilities. It's a fard on the wife to come to the husband when called to bed. She's committing haraam by refusing.

      Originally posted by naila-k View Post
      the hadiths mention if the husband is angry with her? if a woman says no and the husband is not angry, then as far as i understand she wont be cursed.
      It does, but the husbands aren't happy, they are upset/angry about the situation. Why would any Muslim woman want to be cursed by the angels of mercy?

      Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
      It is not reasonable for the wife to have sexual intimacy every single day and this is not practical as well. It is not wrong for her to ask her husband for respite because she is tired or so [vice versa].
      If the wife can't, or is really against it, then I think this would be a good case in which the husband should take another wife. Anyway, it was asked, how much is too much. For example, what if the wife doesn't want it more than once every 20 years. Is the husband just suppose to fast?

      Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
      Your friend seems to generalize this issue.
      He has, and I personally believe he's wrong. However, he feels that men marry, and then are starved for intimacy. That only have much begging and pleading the women give in, once in a blue moon. I wondering if men are being made miserable in their marriage life this way, generally speaking. That's why I asked. I don't believe he's correct. I think it's just the group of guys he knows. However, if it is a general problem, then the ummah has a huge problem. If it's true, that married women refuse to give there men relief, that's a problem. Before we even talk about that, the question is, is it true, do Muslim women refuse their husbands?

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      The thing that I found very telling about your post is the need to mention that you were talking about men who became Drs and provided well for their wives- as if that makes a difference... then mention you're talking more about people from the subcontinent. Back home, a Dr is like the epitome of achievement and success- everyone wants their daughter to marry a Dr so somehow being a Dr is supposed to impact how much sex he gets from his wife (out of gratitude because after all, she is married to a DOCTOR). My cousin once told me they have a formula for matching compatibility in rishtas- he calls it "degree to degree, bank balance to bank balance". When a Dr looks to get married, then he is expected to marry someone of similar status or social standing- okay maybe not necessarily a Dr herself but certainly someone with an education and similar family background (hence the cousin thing) or upbringing. Stuff like piety or responsibilities of the spouse from an Islamic viewpoint hardly enter the discussion.
      It's not like that. They weren't able to marry anyone in America, so they married their cousins, because that's the only option they have. Almost no girl in America marries a guy without at least meeting him. I know it's a generalization, but girls really don't like meek guys. They're not into dorks. Those guys do pray, go to the masjid, and have a good living. They couldn't marry anyone from here. So they married a cousin from back home. And no, the cousin wasn't rich, nor did they have a medical degree.

      I also would think it would make a difference if they guy is treating the girl well, that the girl would want to also treat the guy well. He's providing for her needs and wants. However, it's instead become, I speculate, that the girl just owns the guy. She's not sleeping with him, because she looks down on him. He's just someone to use.

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      The other sweeping generalisation in the post was the suggestion that a practising sister would not allow her husband to take a second wife. Aside from the fact that this fact only applies to a proportion of sisters whilst there are other practising sisters who would accept this, the statement itself insinuates that a practising sister only practises as much of the deen as suits her and disregards the rest, hence tarnishing all practising sisters with the same brush. It also insinuates that sexual needs of a marriage= the need for more than one wife which is not necessarily the case.
      A general statement isn't an absolute statement. Just because something is generally true, doesn't mean it's true absolutely. Hence, the statement would tarnish practicing sisters in general, not all of them. I do believe though, we need to separate the idea that just because a person wears a hijab or niqab, that they do everything else right in Islam.

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      I think the sweeping generalisation about awkward nerdy brothers is a bit unfair. If a guy is studious and kept himself away from women, to a sincere practising sister that is often viewed as a good thing. He might not seem 'cool' enough to get the attention of Kafir or loose women but that doesn't mean he'd be viewed as incompatible in a rishta context.
      Those guys were not able to find anyone. They're not fat nor overly skinny. They go to the masjid to pray. If I'm wrong, I'd be more than happy to change my mind. Women, I think, more often than not, go by how they feel. It's not good enough he's acceptable on paper. If they feel like he's a good guy, but still a loser, they're not going to want to marry that guy. Many of them instead want that shaqh, or that Imam, or that... It's about status in society.

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      As for witholding sex- there are valid reasons for it and there are invalid reasons for it.
      That's only in the case of intercourse. She can use other methods to relieve him. There isn't a reason for her not to. At least, I've never seen anything in the fiqh books that gave a reason for a wife to withhold relief.

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      On top of that (although this is a separate issue) there's also the possibility of a wife who doesn't want sex because her husband mistreats her so rather than sex improving the loving bond- it only increases her resentment for him and this is very very damaging for their relationship. This issue is far more complex because most people have very subjective ideas regarding what constitutes 'mistreatment' and have a lot of cultural influences that dictate what they believe to be the 'Islamic' rights of the spouse.
      Can you give me an example?

      Originally posted by neelu View Post
      Maybe you're both right. I sense you do both live in a bubble because you took a fairly complex issue and both addressed it with sweeping generalisations which only apply to some people when there's a lot more to it than that.
      We're both grounded in science. In addition to science, I've studied statistics, psychology, and fiqh. Just because a situation is complex, doesn't mean they aren't general truths. The human body is very complex and bacteria outnumber human cells 10-to-1. Yet we know a simple truth. You inactivate the DapE enzyme, and you'll kill the bacteria, but leave the human cells unharmed. In psychology studies, then looking at a single factor, to see the effect it's causing, statisticians will regress the data. Even though the situation is complex, they can see what part the factor plays in it.

      Regardless, the main question wasn't answered. Do Muslim women in general refuse their husbands?

      Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
      And I don't really believe that piety will necessarily give the husband, more sex...it often depends on the couple's relationship. Piety only helps to a level and not beyond that.
      A pious woman is not going to risk being cursed by the angels of mercy.

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      • #18
        Re: Are marriages sexless?

        living in the US or UK , u try anything and u'll be in jail for domestic abuse and will have to partition have of ur life savings.



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        • #19
          Re: Let's please have adab...

          Originally posted by Muslim2 View Post
          We're both grounded in science. In addition to science, I've studied statistics, psychology, and fiqh. Just because a situation is complex, doesn't mean they aren't general truths. The human body is very complex and bacteria outnumber human cells 10-to-1. Yet we know a simple truth. You inactivate the DapE enzyme, and you'll kill the bacteria, but leave the human cells unharmed. In psychology studies, then looking at a single factor, to see the effect it's causing, statisticians will regress the data. Even though the situation is complex, they can see what part the factor plays in it.

          Regardless, the main question wasn't answered. Do Muslim women in general refuse their husbands?
          Get me a 1000 responses and I'll gladly regress the data (controlling for region, education, understanding of Islam & commitment)... Not a joke, but simply illustrating the fact that such a question is difficult to answer beyond the individual (and statistically insignificant) answers of the people here. The answer here I think depends on where said individual lives, their understanding of Islam, their commitment to a specific level of understanding, their education, wealth, cultural background etc. If accounting for all Muslim women in the world, my gut tells me "no" - they don't refuse their husbands. If we narrow it out to North America, or lets say in Canada where I live, my gut still tells me no.

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          • #20
            Re: Let's please have adab...

            Indians/Pakistanis usually have boat loads of kids mashallah, so there's your clue..
            Fabi-ayyiala -i rabbikuma tukaththibani
            Then which of the favors of your Lord will ye deny?
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr8DR8frP_s

            You are not here just to fill space or to be a background character in someone else's movie. Consider this: nothing would be the same if you did not exist. Every place you have ever been and everyone you have ever spoken to would be different without you. We are all connected, and we are all affected by the decisions and even the existence of those around us.

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            • #21
              Re: Let's please have adab...

              What if the husband refues to have sex with his wife?

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              • #22
                Re: Let's please have adab...

                - Thread closed.

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