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  • Are marriages sexless?

    My and one of my cousins got into an argument. We both accused each other of living in a bubble. He said, a lot of Muslim men are miserable because the wives refuse to have sex with their husbands. Many of the husbands have to beg their wives. Many of these men are doctors, so they provide for their wives as well. Since this is an anonymous form, I was wondering, Do the husbands here get to have sex with their wives whenever they want? Do the wives have sex with their husbands whenever they want?

    I understand the question is extremely personal. Perhaps it can be discussed another way. Do the men feel that wives should give sexual pleasure to the husband whenever they want? Do the women feel the same? Also, can there be something as too much desire? If the husband wants it 3 times a day, is it too much? If the husband wants it once a month, is it too much?

    I think he, my cousin, is living in a bubble. Most of the guys he knows are very awkward, in terms of their interaction. They weren't able to get any girl to like them, because they really lack the social skills. So many of them married their first cousin from back home. Many of those girls walk all over the guys. It's because of that reason, I think the wives just walk all over the guys and treat them as pets. I told my cousin, if those guys went after very religious girls, they wouldn't have that problem. The religious girls wouldn't deny their husbands.

    I was thinking, girls don't want to marry an awkward guy. They're not into guys that just study and don't know how to socially interact with other people. Even though those guys will be successful, they don't want a meek man. Since many of the western marriages usually have at least a courtship period, during that time, those girls will be turned off by the nerd guys. So these guys really can't marry anyone except their first cousins from back home. That's why they're in such a harsh situation.

    Normally, I don't think wives refuse their husbands, even if the husband wants it 10 times a day. Am I right or wrong?

  • #2
    Re: Are marriages sexless?

    Just a quick note, we're speaking about pakistani/indian girls.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Are marriages sexless?

      i think couples normally come to their own agreements about this stuff, and whatever works for them is none of anyone elses business and these friends shouldnt be discussing these things with anyone apart from their wives if they have an issue.

      Recipes for all the family :inlove:
      (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

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      • #4
        Re: Are marriages sexless?

        Originally posted by Muslim2 View Post
        My and one of my cousins got into an argument. We both accused each other of living in a bubble. He said, a lot of Muslim men are miserable because the wives refuse to have sex with their husbands. Many of the husbands have to beg their wives. Many of these men are doctors, so they provide for their wives as well. Since this is an anonymous form, I was wondering, Do the husbands here get to have sex with their wives whenever they want? Do the wives have sex with their husbands whenever they want?

        I understand the question is extremely personal. Perhaps it can be discussed another way. Do the men feel that wives should give sexual pleasure to the husband whenever they want? Do the women feel the same? Also, can there be something as too much desire? If the husband wants it 3 times a day, is it too much? If the husband wants it once a month, is it too much?

        I think he, my cousin, is living in a bubble. Most of the guys he knows are very awkward, in terms of their interaction. They weren't able to get any girl to like them, because they really lack the social skills. So many of them married their first cousin from back home. Many of those girls walk all over the guys. It's because of that reason, I think the wives just walk all over the guys and treat them as pets. I told my cousin, if those guys went after very religious girls, they wouldn't have that problem. The religious girls wouldn't deny their husbands.

        I was thinking, girls don't want to marry an awkward guy. They're not into guys that just study and don't know how to socially interact with other people. Even though those guys will be successful, they don't want a meek man. Since many of the western marriages usually have at least a courtship period, during that time, those girls will be turned off by the nerd guys. So these guys really can't marry anyone except their first cousins from back home. That's why they're in such a harsh situation.

        Normally, I don't think wives refuse their husbands, even if the husband wants it 10 times a day. Am I right or wrong?
        This is a private matter between the Husband and the Wife and aught to remain Private ...

        as for refusing to have Sex,

        there are Ahadith's which have been posted which clearly show the Angels cursing the Women who refuses her Husband, unless of course she is Ill, Menstruating, time for Salah etc.

        :jkk:
        http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

        "It does not befit the lion to answer the dogs."

        – Imam al-Shafi’i (Rahimahullah)

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        • #5
          Re: Are marriages sexless?

          i dont think its that appropriate to openly bring this subject up on a public forum would have been better if it was privately done in the brothers section, but now its up and out there me personally know many many many practesing brothers who are in this situation and some i know have even divorced because of it, but remember a partner not providing natural urges of the other is a valid excuse for divorce in islam. but yes frigidness is an issue
          ]IM A BRO READ MY NICK RIGHT U ROBOTS!!

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          • #6
            Re: Are marriages sexless?

            the hadiths mention if the husband is angry with her? if a woman says no and the husband is not angry, then as far as i understand she wont be cursed.

            Recipes for all the family :inlove:
            (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

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            • #7
              Re: Are marriages sexless?

              he should threaten her with another wife, it might work lol
              Originally posted by muslimali1234 View Post
              i dont think its that appropriate to openly bring this subject up on a public forum would have been better if it was privately done in the brothers section, but now its up and out there me personally know many many many practesing brothers who are in this situation and some i know have even divorced because of it, but remember a partner not providing natural urges of the other is a valid excuse for divorce in islam.

              Recipes for all the family :inlove:
              (and you thought I was a lazy feminazi which can't cook?)

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Are marriages sexless?

                :salams

                I don't think this is such an appropriate thread, even for an anonymous Forum.

                The reality is that both husband and wives should be available to each other, as it's both of their rights. If one refuses without a valid reason, then yes, he/she is wrong. That's the Islamic stance and that's all should matter.

                As for other part of your post about first cousin, I don' think that's true. Not all of them are the type that "walk over" you. And, not all sisters in the West are tunred off by "nerdy" guts, because what matters the most is the deen.
                Secure few moments, everyday, to reflect upon the innumerable blessings of Allah and thank Him for bestowing them upon you.

                "A person who is blessed with the ability to be grateful, shall never be deprived of barakah and increase in blessings."
                - Rasulullah (صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم)‎

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Are marriages sexless?

                  There has to be balance, just like every other area of marriage. In the case of sex, there are two extremes:

                  1) Expecting sex all the time and being floored when your spouse says no
                  2) Refusing sex for no good reason. Sex can sometimes be used as a bargaining tool or punishment, for example "Honey, if you don't buy me these shoes, you're not getting any for a week".

                  Both extremes are wrong. If you treat your husband/wife as a sex slave [i.e. that there's no excuse as to why they should refuse], then shame on you for being so selfish. To someone like that, I would tell him/her to grow up and to control yourself. If there are concerns, talk it out with each other, but don't think for one second that your wife/husband has to do it with you whenever, wherever, however you want.
                  "Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie." (surah 6:116)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Are marriages sexless?

                    Originally posted by Muslim2 View Post
                    My and one of my cousins got into an argument. We both accused each other of living in a bubble. He said, a lot of Muslim men are miserable because the wives refuse to have sex with their husbands. Many of the husbands have to beg their wives. Many of these men are doctors, so they provide for their wives as well. Since this is an anonymous form, I was wondering, Do the husbands here get to have sex with their wives whenever they want? Do the wives have sex with their husbands whenever they want?

                    I understand the question is extremely personal. Perhaps it can be discussed another way. Do the men feel that wives should give sexual pleasure to the husband whenever they want? Do the women feel the same? Also, can there be something as too much desire? If the husband wants it 3 times a day, is it too much? If the husband wants it once a month, is it too much?

                    I think he, my cousin, is living in a bubble. Most of the guys he knows are very awkward, in terms of their interaction. They weren't able to get any girl to like them, because they really lack the social skills. So many of them married their first cousin from back home. Many of those girls walk all over the guys. It's because of that reason, I think the wives just walk all over the guys and treat them as pets. I told my cousin, if those guys went after very religious girls, they wouldn't have that problem. The religious girls wouldn't deny their husbands.

                    I was thinking, girls don't want to marry an awkward guy. They're not into guys that just study and don't know how to socially interact with other people. Even though those guys will be successful, they don't want a meek man. Since many of the western marriages usually have at least a courtship period, during that time, those girls will be turned off by the nerd guys. So these guys really can't marry anyone except their first cousins from back home. That's why they're in such a harsh situation.

                    Normally, I don't think wives refuse their husbands, even if the husband wants it 10 times a day. Am I right or wrong?
                    dunno about the rest, but nothing wrong with awkward guys. If he's awkward around women that means he isnt used to talk to women, and thats good. just as many girls are awkward around men because they've never dated or never been close to men. nothing wrong with that. [email protected] guys, nothing wrong with nerd guys as long as they are pious and deen is the most important thing in life to them.
                    I prefer a man who doesnt socialize too much actually.
                    The life of this world is only the enjoyment of deception (a deceiving thing)” (3:185)

                    Avoid excessive laughter and useless arguments as they harden the heart and lead to heedlessness.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Are marriages sexless?

                      A particular person's marriage issues are private. That's regardless if it's related to this particular topic or not. However, forums like this allow us to discuss general problems that occur. I just want to know, is it a general problem. Yes, we all know the Islamic ruling on a refusing wife, and we also know the angel's of mercy curse her. I was telling my cousins that at least a religious woman wouldn't refuse. But he told me, they'd refuse the guy from taking a second wife. In other words, women aren't religious in areas that they don't care for.

                      Anyway, if it is a general problem, then those need to be addressed. It's not good to raise women that refuse.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Are marriages sexless?

                        Assalamu 'alaykum,

                        There will be no general comment in these issues as it will always depend on a specific case.

                        There will be cases where the wife is refusing sexual intimacy and there are cases where the husbands refuse sexual intimacy to their wives and there are cases where both the spouses do it.

                        Some spouses [either gender] may have high libido and may be one partner may have a less libido. The spouses will need to come to a common solution [negotiation] if one spouse's libido is high and another's is low and they will need to agree on a level mutually satisfactory.

                        It is not reasonable for the wife to have sexual intimacy every single day and this is not practical as well. It is not wrong for her to ask her husband for respite because she is tired or so [vice versa].

                        Any sensible husband will understand this issue.

                        It is also incorrect to state that most of the men are awkward in their interactions. Firstly, the Muslim has to have good manners and good social interactions [according to the limits of the deen of course], and if the people accomodate their deen with the ahkaam of this deen, it should not really be a problem. It may be a defect in us to consider the western way of meeting a potential spouse to be the best instead of the Sunnah.

                        And I disagree that a pious woman will have more sexual intimacy with her husband, if he asks, due to her piety. To an extent, she may, but it depends a lot on her desires and the love she has for her husband. It is not solely based on a woman's piety.

                        If any husband thinks that the wife should give him sexual intimacy whenever he wants it, needs to re-evaluate his method of thinking in this aspect. It is not practical and not wise.

                        The wife is a human being and not a robot.

                        Sexual relations differ from each marriage. I think we forget that sexual intimacy is not just a right of the spouses but a way of increasing the bond between each other and when both of them love each other, then this act is more than just a 'right' or 'one person's happiness' or so.

                        Your friend seems to generalize this issue.

                        Wassalam.
                        Reported by Ibn al-Salah:

                        ولقد أحسن الحسن بن أبي زياد اللؤلؤي صاحب أبي حنيفة فيما بلغنا عنه أنه استفتي في مسألة فأخطأ فيها ولم يعرف الذي أفتاه فاكترى مناديا فنادى أن الحسن بن أبي زياد استفتي يوم كذا وكذا في مسألة فأخطأ فمن كان أفتاه الحسن بن أبي زياد بشيء فليرجع إليه
                        فلبث أياما لا يفتي حتى وجد صاحب الفتوى فأعلمه أنه أخطأ وإن الصواب كذا وكذا والله أعلم

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                        • #13
                          Re: Are marriages sexless?

                          I'm not married so I can not offer opinion from experience on this matter but looking at the communities you mentioned I think its less to do with the fact that their wives walk over them and more probably to do with the fact that in these communities in particular boys and girls are raised with the mindset that you shouldn't talk about sex, it is disgusting or whatever and your not really told much about it (in the UK boys and girls probably learn through sex education and the internet) god knows how boys and girls in Pakistan/India learn about sex, socially in those communities it is a social taboo. I think this mindset will affect how much of an enjoyable experience it is, it does remind of the saying 'lie back and think of England' as if having sex is some kind of chore and if women think it is a chore and don't find it enjoyable well they are going to be less likely to want to have it. It could be that the men need to concentrate on how to make sex an enjoyable experience for their wives, the more they enjoy it the more likely they will have sex.

                          Apologises to anyone who finds this post a little crass.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Are marriages sexless?

                            Originally posted by Muslim2 View Post
                            My and one of my cousins got into an argument. We both accused each other of living in a bubble. He said, a lot of Muslim men are miserable because the wives refuse to have sex with their husbands. Many of the husbands have to beg their wives. Many of these men are doctors, so they provide for their wives as well. Since this is an anonymous form, I was wondering, Do the husbands here get to have sex with their wives whenever they want? Do the wives have sex with their husbands whenever they want?
                            I think your question is a rather revealing, marriage is a relationship, and it involves give and take, compromise and more than a little joint enterprise. The best of believers are those who are best to their wives. So would a good husband want to have sex with his wife, if the wife didn't want to have sex with him at that time?

                            I understand the question is extremely personal. Perhaps it can be discussed another way. Do the men feel that wives should give sexual pleasure to the husband whenever they want? Do the women feel the same? Also, can there be something as too much desire? If the husband wants it 3 times a day, is it too much? If the husband wants it once a month, is it too much?
                            This is a personal issue, and your questions are clumsy and ill thought out.
                            People and relationships do not function to a set of numbers, some times three times a day is not enough and at other times once a month might be too much. Different people, at different times have different desires and respecting and loving your spouse means sometimes making a few sacrifices and sometimes it means not making making any sacrifices at all.

                            I think he, my cousin, is living in a bubble. Most of the guys he knows are very awkward, in terms of their interaction. They weren't able to get any girl to like them, because they really lack the social skills. So many of them married their first cousin from back home. Many of those girls walk all over the guys. It's because of that reason, I think the wives just walk all over the guys and treat them as pets. I told my cousin, if those guys went after very religious girls, they wouldn't have that problem. The religious girls wouldn't deny their husbands.

                            I was thinking, girls don't want to marry an awkward guy. They're not into guys that just study and don't know how to socially interact with other people. Even though those guys will be successful, they don't want a meek man. Since many of the western marriages usually have at least a courtship period, during that time, those girls will be turned off by the nerd guys. So these guys really can't marry anyone except their first cousins from back home. That's why they're in such a harsh situation.

                            Normally, I don't think wives refuse their husbands, even if the husband wants it 10 times a day. Am I right or wrong?
                            Again you are seeking a formulae for something that is not formulaic. Some women like the quiet, studious 'nerdy' guy; others like the opposite and others like the ones in-between. Of course there are cruel manipulative woman, just as there are cruel inconsiderate men in this world; but they are the exception not the rule.

                            As for courtship . . . not really an Islamic concept in my book.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Are marriages sexless?

                              Originally posted by IbnulQayyim View Post
                              Your friend seems to generalize this issue.

                              Wassalam.
                              Walaykum salam,

                              I agree with you- the OP appears to contain a number of sweeping generalisations, some of which may apply to certain individuals or situations, but not to everyone.

                              There are so many factors that can play a role in the sex life of a couple that I don't know where to begin. For arguments sake, I'll discuss this in the context of couples where there is no issue of impotence or that sort of thing.

                              The thing that I found very telling about your post is the need to mention that you were talking about men who became Drs and provided well for their wives- as if that makes a difference... then mention you're talking more about people from the subcontinent. Back home, a Dr is like the epitome of achievement and success- everyone wants their daughter to marry a Dr so somehow being a Dr is supposed to impact how much sex he gets from his wife (out of gratitude because after all, she is married to a DOCTOR). My cousin once told me they have a formula for matching compatibility in rishtas- he calls it "degree to degree, bank balance to bank balance". When a Dr looks to get married, then he is expected to marry someone of similar status or social standing- okay maybe not necessarily a Dr herself but certainly someone with an education and similar family background (hence the cousin thing) or upbringing. Stuff like piety or responsibilities of the spouse from an Islamic viewpoint hardly enter the discussion.

                              The other sweeping generalisation in the post was the suggestion that a practising sister would not allow her husband to take a second wife. Aside from the fact that this fact only applies to a proportion of sisters whilst there are other practising sisters who would accept this, the statement itself insinuates that a practising sister only practises as much of the deen as suits her and disregards the rest, hence tarnishing all practising sisters with the same brush. It also insinuates that sexual needs of a marriage= the need for more than one wife which is not necessarily the case.

                              I think the sweeping generalisation about awkward nerdy brothers is a bit unfair. If a guy is studious and kept himself away from women, to a sincere practising sister that is often viewed as a good thing. He might not seem 'cool' enough to get the attention of Kafir or loose women but that doesn't mean he'd be viewed as incompatible in a rishta context.

                              As for witholding sex- there are valid reasons for it and there are invalid reasons for it. If a woman is menstruating or feeling unwell, then these are valid reasons for not wanting sex. If a woman avoids sex deliberately as a means to manipulate her husband into dancing on her little finger and indulging all her whims- then the angels curse her because she is doing an injustice towards him. Sadly I do think there are some Muslim women who would fit in the latter category. Either they are non practising women who either are ignorant of or don't concern themselves much with the rights of the husband or else in some cases some practising women who are influenced by ideas alien to Islam might not appreciate the seriousness of this issue. Having said that, I think there are some cases of women who are not practising who will still take the rights of her husband seriously (maybe due to her upbringing or the elder women of her family instilling these concepts) and I tend to assume that a practising woman is more likely to fulfil the rights of her husband for obvious reasons.

                              On top of that (although this is a separate issue) there's also the possibility of a wife who doesn't want sex because her husband mistreats her so rather than sex improving the loving bond- it only increases her resentment for him and this is very very damaging for their relationship. This issue is far more complex because most people have very subjective ideas regarding what constitutes 'mistreatment' and have a lot of cultural influences that dictate what they believe to be the 'Islamic' rights of the spouse.

                              Maybe you're both right. I sense you do both live in a bubble because you took a fairly complex issue and both addressed it with sweeping generalisations which only apply to some people when there's a lot more to it than that.
                              The Lyme Disease pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5u73ME4sVU

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